Two side of the same coin ?

-Shes-A-Carnival · 2024-04-18T18:07:03+00:00

what is this rap video planet women are "collecting presents" from men on

63daddy · 2024-04-18T16:32:18+00:00

Taking your examples without real life context, these would be opposite sides of the same coin.

However, in the real word context, it’s much easier for women to pick up men than the reverse. Financially, it is much easier for Annie to become a sugar baby, gold digger, stay at home wife or otherwise be partially supported by someone of the opposite sex than it is for guys like Bernie.

In the real world, these things aren’t opposite sides of the same coin. In the real world the coin flip is loaded, not equal.

Legitimate_Type_1324 · 2024-04-18T16:42:42+00:00

I'd simp for Annie

Haunting-Run-5346 · 2024-04-18T19:21:50+00:00

both are boring, predictable humans with useless life goals. maybe feel a tiny bit sad that neither of them ever developed a brain

DreaminInChocolate · 2024-04-18T16:22:28+00:00

These people are not attractive if they have to lie to get something from the other person.

MistyMaisel · 2024-04-18T16:24:52+00:00

They both sound like real rotters to me. I don't think they're necessarily the exact same thing, but certainly cousins so to speak. I think probably the largest difference is that there's way more Bernies than Annies. Annie is pretty much a made up concept, Bernie is a real dude most women have met at least once.

Exploiting for sex is clearly worse in all conceivable ways, but exploiting anyone is extremely wrong.

No, there's no amount of money or time without sex that justifies either behavior. The only behavior I could see being understandable is if it was an extremely and ridiculously large amount of money. And that would just make it more wrong, but I think a lot of us could understand pumping a dude up to pay your mortgage off or retire. Shit, probably most straight dudes would lead a gay dude on for a million dollars.

stats135 · 2024-04-18T17:10:22+00:00

What's worse, exploiting someone's feelings for money or for sex ?

At the end of the day I don't give a fuck about anyone's "feelings" here. I care about objective value.

Do men lose value when they have less money? As a man I would say Yes.
Do women lose value when they have more sex? It seems that women nowadays are adamant the answer is No.

Cethlinnstooth · 2024-04-18T20:09:25+00:00

They are both playing stupid games for stupid prizes. I don't really think it's possible to say who is worse unless you've got the actual people you can observe... terrible behaviour is in its details usually very particular to the individual. Similarly I can't say they are different sides of the same coin... there's plenty of people who aren't like that despite similar stories and the reality is that they've chosen this probably because of other stuff about them that makes them kind of crappy, that is likely to be quite peculiar to them as individuals.

I'm more inclined to feel tolerance for Annie than Bernie simply because her game of dating for material items but giving men nothing is probably less likely to result in a kid being produced...if she's been at it a while and hasn't made a baby yet to get child support I will figure that's deliberate and she probably won't or at least she's good enough at the game of getting stuff to get actual marriage to a vaguely tolerable guy and some stability first. Bernie however, unless he's had a vasectomy is just playing the odds until he pokes his dick into someone who isn't even looking after herself to the point of not having babies with men she barely knows. I would assume that Bernie's game is more likely to end up with a totally innocent powerless baby trapped in it in a fairly awful way straight from the moment of birth.

SwimmingTheme3736 · 2024-04-19T09:13:29+00:00

I think they are both shitty people and they are both missing out on something real

campskills21 · 2024-04-18T17:49:07+00:00

The attractive guy is in a way better position than the attractive girl and it's not close. The guy is in an cycle of ego validation and sex addiction. He can break free from it when he wants and get a girlfriend easily. There's also not a social stigma to being a player.

Guys see pretty girls getting free stuff, trips, finding a sugar daddy as something they are entitled to and it's easy. It rarely works out for the girl like we think, and it's temporary to the guy providing it. They also have to comply with what the guy wants in order to have any chance to keep getting it, she's turned herself into basically a prostitute. Her reputation and seeing men as something to use will catch up to her, and her chances of landing a real quality guy for a relationship will be greatly diminished.

Hoopy223 · 2024-04-18T18:10:17+00:00

That’s not really how it works, people who behave that way are manipulators due to personality and not looks. Annie and Bernie don’t have to be good looking to lead people on.

Anyways to answer your (fail) post stealing money is worse.

Electric_Death_1349 · 2024-04-18T16:35:36+00:00

Bernie is a player; Annie is a ho - there is no comparison

Westernation · 2024-04-18T17:17:19+00:00

Anyone who exploits another is a scumbag. They’re no different.

Objective_Ad_6265 · 2024-04-18T17:32:34+00:00

Yes, it's basicaly the same. Bernie is worse, money is just money, you can earn it again, but you can't undo sex, undo the connection without damage.

Maybe we could understand Annie if she is in absolutely desperate situation without money and she does it only to avoid ending up on the street, literaly for survival. But you can survive without sex, you can do it yourself, so no matter how long how desperate, you can survive without it, there is no way to justify using someone's body, hurting someone emotionaly so much. Money is only money, you can earn it again, but you can't undo the emotional damage from being used only for your body.

So in Annies case I think it's worse if she sleeps with them and uses their body and hurts their soul by leaving than the money aspect. I still blame Annie much more for sex and emotional aspect than money.

Radiant_Shock_7529 · 2024-04-18T17:00:55+00:00

In a society where women get judged negatively and harshly for their "bodycounts" (i hate that word ) what Bernie does (pumping up hopes to get sex then dumping after, as you say) is worse because a man can make back the lost money but the woman can't unhave the sex. If women and men were judged equally on that then my answer might be different..

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MidoriEgg · 2024-04-18T18:38:04+00:00

Bernie’s parents gaurenteed he wouldn’t be popular in highschool by naming him Bernie so he should blame them.

Independent-Pause638 · 2024-04-18T20:39:48+00:00

What is your opinion on Annie ? On Bernie ?

Simple, hurt people hurt people.

Would you say they are the two sides of the same coin ?

Yes

What's worse, exploiting someone's feelings for money or for sex ?

Exploiting Someone. Full stop.

Is there an amount of money at which it becomes understandable/justified ?

No.

Is there an amount of time without sex that makes it understandable/justifiable ?

I don't understand the context of this question. Or just the whole question. Huh?

AlmostKindaGreat · 2024-04-18T21:46:50+00:00

The only part here I would judge people for is deception. You seem to be saying they are intentionally deceiving people to get what they want. If they're deceiving the same amount then I believe they are just as bad as each other.

What's worse, exploiting someone's feelings for money or for sex ?

Something interesting to think about is what Annie and Bernie want. Bernie wants sex. Annie wants money and/or gifts.

Sex is a normal part of a romantic relationship. People want the feeling of being desired, the validation, and the physical pleasure regardless of whether it's a hookup or a marriage. Sharing money can be a part of a normal romantic relationship but payment from one party to the other is not. This is to say that Bernie could find a FWB, fuck buddy, or fling with no deception where Annie either has to deceive or explicitly tell someone that they will be her sugar daddy or John (which I consider the same thing).

This is to say that an honest Bernie could seek an honest short-term relationship with two people who genuinely like and desire each other. An honest Annie cannot. She would have to make it clear that she is merely tolerating the other person for payment.

To answer the question, I don't think one deception is necessarily worse than the other, but Bernie's desires are at least more mainstream in that more people want short-term relationships, between equals desiring each other, than are interested in engaging in prostitution.

obviousredflag · 2024-04-19T12:40:56+00:00

What is your opinion on Annie ? On Bernie ?

We all do what serves our interests. Annie wants to get validation from attention(via gifts) from guys, Bernie wants to get validation from sex with women. Setting up a transaction and then not holding up your side of the transaction after receiving what you wanted from them, is morally wrong but absolutely understandable. It's the basic concept of deception in human interactions and happens all the time, on all topics, even outside of mating. Annie and Bernie fully understand the informal deal and that they only got what they wanted because they signalled holding up their end of this deal, prior to getting what they wanted.

The answer to this is social repercussions for deceiving others: shaming, exclusions, legal punishments, physical violence, etc. The anonymity of online interactions/dating makes it close to impossible for social repercussions to take place unless they cross legal boundaries.

The "victims" are not to blame for being cheated out of their end of the informal bargain, but they are to be blamed for acting naively, trusting an unknown person.

Would you say they are the two sides of the same coin ?

What's worse, exploiting someone's feelings for money or for sex ?

Yes, it's the same behavior, same coin, same moral issues. I don't think there is a difference in what is worse, as it's really the same thing that is morally wrong: cheating someone out of a deal after you got what you wanted.

Is there an amount of money at which it becomes understandable/justified ?

Is there an amount of time without sex that makes it understandable/justifiable ?

It's already understandable at any level. As i said, this behavior is a part of being human and the only thing we have to ensure that we are not going to only deceive each other, is social repercussions.

If you go into a space where there are no social repercussions, because there is no common social network that holds people accountable, there is no way to present evidence, there is no deal that is not deniable, there is no legal boundary crossed, then you MUST be prepared to be deceived and that there will be more people willing to deceive in that space. If you cannot take being deceived, don't be the one to give your part of the deal first. Then you need to be able to take, that you likely won't get what you want either, if there is more demand for what you want, than there is supply (others will take the deal if you don't).

As with any other thing: the desperate/naive will get exploited because they trust in their desperation/naivety, that others will give them what they need. Don't be a desperate/naive person in a space with no social repercussions. We have social repercussions so the naive/desperate have safe spaces.

thisdoesntworkyall · 2024-04-19T13:29:28+00:00

Annie and Bernie are both horrible people that need to STFU and grow up.

Bouldershoulders12 · 2024-04-19T14:57:20+00:00

Difference is the average woman has exponentially more sexual access than a average guy. Even an attractive guy .

MattPayneWrestler · 2024-04-19T19:45:48+00:00

With annie, only she benefits. With bernie, both him and the girl get to enjoy sex. Women like sex too, right?

ArmariumEspata · 2024-04-18T16:33:39+00:00

Why are you assuming only men chase after sex but women don’t, or that women don’t desire to have sex unless it involves “feelings”? This scenario obviously paints Bernie as worse

EulenWatcher · 2024-04-18T16:35:30+00:00

Both are shitty and they waste other people’s time and good will. It’s hard to say who is worse, as it’s probably case by case scenario. I.e. it’s one thing to go on a date or two just to eat there (still shitty) and another to target a guy and stop him from seeking other options by always having him on a leash, when you know perfectly well you aren’t gonna date him. Just as it’s one thing to have a ONS and never call her again and another to “date” a woman for months if not years promising her future together just to have a bootiecall.

Sharp_Engineering379 · 2024-04-18T16:47:21+00:00

Can’t either of them simply enjoy sex for the sake of sex?

RelativeYak7 · 2024-04-18T23:37:17+00:00

Is Annie sleeping with these men? If so then she's a sex worker and I doubt the men are dumb enough not to realize it.

Sorcha16 · 2024-04-18T16:52:54+00:00

They're one side of the coin. Saying something is two sides of the same coin means they're a duality to it. You've just described the same behaviour and attitude just male and female.

Title	Two side of the same coin ?
Author	Jazzlike_Worth_9908
Upvotes	7
Comments	159
Date	April 18, 2024 4:16 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1c77dw0/two_side_of_the_same_coin/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/two-side-of-the-same-coin.1515591 https://theredarchive.com/post/1515591

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