Speaking out of horses mouth: Men in real life admitted that FDS was right

wtknight · 2025-02-02T18:56:52+00:00

Post removed and locked due to OP repeatedly being uncivil with replying users.

Boniface222 · 2025-02-02T11:06:54+00:00

So men of PPD why do you lie to women that women should give sex "early" and stop playing hard to get even though real life experiences say otherwise?

First, not everyone's real life experience is the same.

Second, I think your approach should vary depending on what you want. I don't buy into advice like "All men should do X" or "All women should do Y". People are different and have different goals.

Use strategies that suit your goals. There's no point in using dating strategies that end up in relationships you don't want.

Fan_Service_3703 · 2025-02-02T09:41:20+00:00

Don't have skin in the game about waiting for sex. That's very dependent on individual circumstances.

But if I went on a date with someone who wanted to "Make me invest time and money and make me pay for dates if she wants to figure out if he is serious about her" I wouldn't be seeing her again.

Aggressive_Sweet1417 · 2025-02-02T12:34:58+00:00

Personally, I’ve never said women they should give sex early. Because I agree with the advice you got to some extent.

There are men out there who are players and will try to seduce you, even if they have no intention of having a relationship with you. Sometimes they do it for the physical gratification, other times for ego. The most skilled ones do it just to have your attention, because that makes them more attractive in the eyes of other women they are actually interested in.

I do think there are other ways to know if they are like that, besides waiting to have sex. Men like that tend to be higher on the dark triad, narcissistic for example. Look how they treat other people, do they flirt with many women? Are they kind? Are they loyal? What are their values?

You should value those things and wait to have a good insight on their character before deciding if you want to take things further. That is advice every father should give to their daughters.

Edit: I do think it’s a small minority of men who play this game. But they are more active and skilled that the average, so you should still be weary.

TopShelfSnipes · 2025-02-02T10:47:00+00:00

Honestly? This sounds a lot like "pick me" behavior by the guys you were dating. It's the implied part - saying 'most' guys would use her for sex, pump and dump...[but not him].

Dads often repeat tropes to daughters because many dads just don't want to picture their daughters developing sexuality. Some parents really, truly, never want their kids to become adolescents, much less grown adults. I suppose for those types of parents, the thought of a child growing up and developing sexuality as they become an adult is, I dunno, alarming?

How early two people have sex depends on their natural level of promiscuity and ability to flirt in an age appropriate manner. Both of these things can change over time.

What IS important is things generally ebbing and flowing in a logical manner - if two people are connecting and flirting, it's natural that things would escalate, and they would communicate openly and honestly about when they're ready to do things BEFORE they start to happen.

I think the idea of explicitly making someone wait if it's about comfort and trust with them as an individual is valid. I think making somebody wait an arbitrary number of dates, weeks, or months when it's no longer about comfort and trust is not valid. Yes, people can lie, but most people are complete crap at it if you have any social skills or abilities to test the waters...and you can easily catch people "faking it" in all avenues of life with some pointed questions or "buddying up" to them and getting them to tell you the truth.

No two people are going to have the same exact timeline, flow, and process, and it's artificial and contrived to force that on someone - I'd say the same thing to the recovering incel demanding the college hookup treatment that I would to the woman gatekeeping sex with a guy she really likes and trusts because she got burned in the past.

Your past shapes you, it doesn't define you. Neither he nor her should be letting her exes define her like that.

I always found a cadence of 3-6 dates was common, but this was also influenced by time talking together outside of dates in between. Phone/video calls > texts when it comes to building connection/flirting.

As for playing for dates, I always found this was simplest, meets social norms, allows her agency, and is balanced:

Guy offers to pay. If she says nothing, he pays. It's valid for him to keep start keeping score on this over a couple dates if she never offers to pay.
If woman offers to split, guy says 'are you sure? I really don't mind getting this.'
If woman lets him pay, pay.
If woman insists on splitting, let her split.
If woman offers to pay instead, guy says 'no, at least let me cover half then...I insist.'
She should let him split, but if she's really adamant about it, let her pay ONLY if you plan to see her again.

I always wanted an egalitarian relationship and found that in my wife and many of the other women I dated. If I made it to the end of date #2 (which usually will have involved multiple activities as I'm a big believer in multipurpose dates such as walk in the park, street fair, ice cream...as a hypothetical example) and she hadn't offered to pay for at least SOMETHING, I would lose interest. Unless one is coming from a less Western culture, I think the idea of a guy paying for every date for, say, 6 months to a year, while waiting to be intimate with someone is an absolute red flag on someone indicating AT BEST they view relationships as transactional, and AT WORSE that they are okay with using people for time, money, and attention. Furthermore, sexual compatibility is extremely important to building a relationship, and it is impossible justifying that much time on someone when a major component of compatibility remains unaddressed. 6 months to a year is an eternity when one is in one's physical prime. It's the adult version of spending your entire first semester of college in your dorm watching Youtube and playing videogames instead of socializing and joining extracurriculars. And it would sound equally ridiculous if applied to other key aspects of forming a relationship - imagine saying "we aren't allowed to talk about whether or not we are open to marriage, or children, for 6-12 months," or "we aren't allowed to mention our careers for 6-12 months," or "all activities on dates must be mutually enjoyed activities only...neither partner is allowed to invite their partner to something they like that they want to share with their partner/introduce them to, until 6-12 months"...pretty ridiculous, no?

No one should have sex if they don't want to - such as someone religious, etc. But making people wait is inconsiderate. If you want to have sex, have sex. If they don't come back, assume it means you aren't sexually compatible and move on, not that you got "pumped and dumped."

meisterkraus · 2025-02-02T10:52:45+00:00

FDS is designed to make a man give you lots of resources/time before you give him the sex/attention he wants. At the end of the day it starts as a traditional dating strategy but tells you not to be a traditional woman after this initial phase. A person looking for a traditional partner is going to leave if you are not holding up your part of tradition.

In today's dating climate more people are looking for an equal partnership. FDS will not work if you are looking for that type of partnership either. It starts you off not having an equal partnership.

Just like the book men love bitches, it's ultimate goal is to keep you single and coming back to separate you from your money. You succeeding is bad for business.

ThrowRA965527 · 2025-02-02T08:25:08+00:00

Delaying sex is a simple method to filter out men who just want to fuck. Men who are genuinely interested in dating will stay interested for a while waiting for sex. You can’t go overboard with it else you’ll just put everyone off but like 3-6 dates is pretty reasonable

Colt_Master · 2025-02-02T10:29:10+00:00

Where do you live? I'll just say your dating culture seems very different from my own. Plain and simply, most men aren't interested in modesty while single nor in being breadwinning providers where I live. And likewise, women don't particularly aim for men who want to be breadwinners to them, or who expect them to not have hooked up even while single.

In my culture you can withhold sex and demand more money and effort in the relationship from him than you give, as a kind of manipulative power game that IMO, the problem with it is not that it doesn't work (it can, just like redpill tactics), but that it's unethical and psychopathic.

But in your culture it seems men basically want women who follow "FDS rules", so 🤷‍♂️.

Disastrous-Lynx-3247 · 2025-02-02T08:17:55+00:00

You gotta have independent thinking at some point in your life . If the guy is being pushy for sex early on , clearly he doesn't care about dating you and only in it for "the pump and dump". Guys say that because they are desperate for sex and have few alternate means of casual sex

Electric_Death_1349 · 2025-02-02T09:29:45+00:00

The truth is that, all of us, without exception, do it all for the nookie - that is to say, we tolerate you with the aim of getting into your pants, because truthfully, that’s all you have to offer us.

However, some men are a lot better at it than others, and that’s where the bullshit comes in; we’re just trying to sabotage the guys who are getting more than we are!

USPSHoudini · 2025-02-02T11:38:08+00:00

FDS tells women men are incapable of feeling love and only seek to harm women and only have monetary value

Why would you degrade yourself to be just as awful as the men you complain about? You become just like them when you try to emulate their behavior with FDS

Atrass · 2025-02-02T09:01:04+00:00

I mean, yes, FDS makes perfect sense. But there is still is a major issue with this.

If you have standards for 1 man you should have standards for every men.

Most of the time what happens is that you will make the nice guy wait and pay, but as soon as you meet someone that you are really attracted too, then all those rules while instantly disappear for some reason.

Basically AFBB.

In this context the guy you've asked to pay will probably hold ressentment towards you because I'll know that he was never your 1st choice

That's the reason why I would never pay a date for a liberal woman or I'll leave if she tries to make me wait

Tywinlol2 · 2025-02-02T08:54:22+00:00

There are so many problems with this.

1) Withholding sex to get commitment and filter out players will not work, because men they don't date exclusively. They always have a number of women they going after. You maybe saying no but the other woman is saying yes. On the other hand a guy that might be genuinely interested in you may assume that you just using him for money/food/attention.

If you uncomfortable having sex early be upfront and honest about it. And demonstrate that you are interested in the guy you dating, his time and attention paid to you. If he asked you out on the first date, ask him out on the second and organize/pay for it. Nothing is more endearing then a woman who is willing to be respectful of men's time and resources.

2) The problem with using money to measure intentions is that you need whole bunch of other information which you will usually not posses about the other person unless you know them really well. And you likely won't have this information at the beginning of the relationship. Not to mention that it could be double edge sword. For example if you dealing with someone who is well off then that large restaurant bill they cover may seem like a huge deal to you, but for them it's pocket change. I remember when I was visiting Eastern Europe few years ago I spent hundreds of dollars, covering expenses, while hanging out with my childhood friends and going on few dates, it was seen as super generous from their point of view, but in the context of my six figure salary, it was nothing. And if a guy is tight on money, but is willing to spend big on dates what does it say about his character? About his money management skills? His priorities? Do you want to be in the relationship with someone who is reckless with their resources? What makes you think that he will only be so for your benefit and not at your expense later on?

AutoModerator · 2025-02-02T08:05:02+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "Debate" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

Hi-Road · 2025-02-02T16:39:45+00:00

Members of the other gender that you’re close with usually tell you to watch out for the worst possible things they’ve seen from their gender. Of course. Dads tell daughters watch out for men and moms tell sons to watch out for women. Most of the time they’re projecting. The people that run rampant the most always have the most to say about the “true nature of men/women)

Like you didn’t notice your bf said he said he had sex with a girl early on and HE lost interest? Dude he’s talking about himself.

You can learn from some of it.. but the way you explained it makes it seem like you’re way too susceptible to the advice you hear? Like you’re way too easily molded. Think for yourself

grown_folks_talkin · 2025-02-02T17:00:15+00:00

I would never give that advice except in unique circumstances like if you were hitting up frat parties looking for a serious situation. I can't see making a guy wait for sex as a guarantee of anything. Actually it seems like the woman gets herself more attached in this process, unless she has other guys she's getting more physical with.

modidlee · 2025-02-02T17:01:07+00:00

Here's the thing: this only really works if the guy sees you as a catch and someone that's actually rare or special. But if an average woman goes after a guy who could theoretically do "better" than her this won't work. This is why women that go for the top, most attractive men feel the pressure to have sex. Because they know he can easily get sex and everything else from another woman who's probably more attractive. He has to see the work he has to put in for you as worth the effort. That's why there's the saying "the juice ain't worth the squeeze."

MisterFunnyShoes · 2025-02-02T17:10:56+00:00

Where is the lie? Men want sex. Nothing in TRP disputes this.

0kayz00mer · 2025-02-02T17:14:34+00:00

My fiancée and I met on dating apps and had sex on the second date. Started out casual, no label. Discovered we had awesome chemistry and liked each other so much that we were pretty much exclusive already. So, I asked her to officially be my girlfriend and she said yes. Got engaged a couple years later.

She did not follow FDS, she followed men’s advice: have realistic standards. You only get pumped and dumped when you are “just another option” and date hot guys to which you are “just another option”. She did not go straight for the hottest guy, I was probably slightly above average compared to most of her options. She wasn’t even sexually attracted to me straight off the bat from my dating app profile, there was just some “potential” and after some dates she got a good feeling. Compared to my other options though she was very desirable and worth serious evaluation and consideration as more than just a lay.

If you keep finding guys that aren’t taking you seriously, it’s because your initial standards are too high and you’re only giving chances to guys to which you’re “just another option”, not an actually special and valuable chance worth serious consideration. You gotta be more initially realistic and get yourself into more situations where you’re discovering amazing chemistry and feelings with a more average guy.

LikeTheBed · 2025-02-02T17:21:24+00:00

Op, why make this post if you're going to push back on every comment that disagrees with you? Are you just seeking validation? The fact is, not everyone is the same, and certainly not every man is the same. Your friend(s) don't speak for all men. "Men of PPD" are not lying. You just have some weird stereotype based on anecdotal experiences. And that's totally fine, but don't get upset and dismiss people who think you are wrong or have a different lived experience.

maplehobo · 2025-02-02T17:28:55+00:00

You seem to come from a sheltered upper middle class or high class background. Regular low to middle class blue collar workers don’t play by the same rules than you do. Some people get to play Disney princess most people don’t, that’s why FDS fails miserably, because most of its audience are average Jane’s trying to date upper class and they just don’t make the cut.

CarHungry · 2025-02-02T18:15:32+00:00

If it works for you good for you, I like to see people take some responsibility in there personal lives. But for me a woman has literally never made me wait to have sex.

I've dated about a dozen different women. In fact when I was younger and less experienced I learned with some women that if I didn't try to initiate sex soon enough another guy would just "mysteriously" pop into her life and do so, since she didn't take a sexless relationship all that seriously to begin with.

I also think men have the least to lose at the beginning, which is why you get pump and dumpers while marriages can stay sexless for years. I find that leaving a relationship early on is way easier than leaving it later when you have attachments.

LordShadows · 2025-02-02T18:54:26+00:00

You shouldn't do anything you aren't comfortable with.

On the other hand, you shouldn't stop yourself from doing things you want to do and are comfortable doing just because men tell you you shouldn't.

All my long-term relationships started with sex on the first date.

I'm literally the reverse of what those men tell you others are.

Someone playing games and "hard to get" just makes me feel like an option instead of someone she's really trying to build a connection with, and I don't like it.

In my experience, men who tell you that other men only think of you as a sex object are projecting.

That's what they think of you themselves, and they think all others do too.

The difference is they think themselves better than others because they pay and wait and treat you like a princess, a trophy to get.

Then, if you refuse them, they get mad, think you're ungrateful and might comfort themselves in thinking that you're just someone that only pick fuckboys instead of "nice guys" anyway.

They are the kind of guys that will see women enjoy themselves with as many parteners as they like and feel pissed they weren't chosen as one of them despite posing as one of their trusted friend.

Of course, fuckboys exists. But never mistake a guy investment in you as respect for you.

zeropepsilove333 · 2025-02-02T08:31:32+00:00

[permanently deleted]

RapaxIII · 2025-02-02T10:59:47+00:00

Yeah of course, that's why RP is generally about breaking this learned behavior within men to reprioritize themselves in dating

just_a_place · 2025-02-02T09:46:23+00:00

What exactly is your question?

All the dating advice men give you is just men reminding you of your innate hypergamous instincts, so that you don't fool yourself into a relationship with a guy that you are neither attracted to nor respect, and then waste everyone's time and end up jaded and leaving another man Red Pilled against his will.

So men of PPD why do you lie to women that women should give sex "early" and stop playing hard to get even though real life experiences say otherwise?

First of all, this is not a lie, but you're welcome to believe that it is. Women who hold out on sex are just not attracted to that man. No attraction means no respect, she is only stringing him along to get something else out of him. Women are highly manipulative and all we are doing is cutting through their bullshit and establishing pragmatic values that produce results.

There is nothing wrong with manipulating women because women are themselves highly manipulative. You just get angry that we play your own games against you - and over time, we're getting really good at it.

Title	Speaking out of horses mouth: Men in real life admitted that FDS was right
Author	zeropepsilove333
Upvotes	0
Comments	199
Date	February 2, 2025 8:05 AM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1ifsjk6/speaking_out_of_horses_mouth_men_in_real_life/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/speaking-out-of-horses-mouth-men-in-real-life.1542754 https://theredarchive.com/post/1542754

Comments

?