Question for feminists: If paying for sex with prostitutes always non-consensual since that consent is bought with money, wouldn’t that make all paid labour also non-consensual since that labour is compensated with money?

leosandlattes · 2025-07-08T02:18:13+00:00

I have to put a disclaimer that I am not a feminist. But here is the answer you are looking for:

There are levels of sex work. Typically when you talk about "prostitutes," these are full service sex workers who often grow up in poverty or gang heavy areas, or are victims of trafficking. I think people imagine too often that all sex workers are cushy middle class/UMC young women who choose Only Fans, or they are high end escorts being afforded a luxurious life, and that is not the case.

I have a friend who works for the defense department in the Netherlands, and he says a large number of prostitutes in Amsterdam's red light district are actually trafficking victims. They are brought to the country under promise of other work and then have their passports taken from them, and are forced to work for pimps.

If the woman did not have the opportunities available to choose any other kind of work, it cannot truly be consensual.

Competitive_Lion_260 · 2025-07-08T03:00:00+00:00

Only 2 % of prostitutes in Amsterdam said they like their work.

"In many EU countries, trafficking Romanian women and children has become a legitimate way of making a fortune for the ‘smarter’ people.

In the beginning, they promised a job abroad in agriculture, in restaurants and as babysitters, and the women who fell prey found themselves in prostitution.

When word got out and that tactic didn’t work anymore, they resorted to the ‘lover boy’ method. When that didn’t work so well, they started to steal children and young women from the street and even from their own homes.

Thousands of other cases similar to Alexandra’s and Luiza’s have surfaced – including one where all six children – two boys and four girls – of a single mother were abducted by force, from their house."

https://nordicmodelnow.org/2020/03/02/the-cost-of-western-europes-rampant-prostitution-the-genocide-of-romanian-women/

THOUSANDS OF WOMEN IN THE NETHERLANDS ARE VICTIMS OF HUMAN TRAFFICKING.

“Take the Red Light District in Amsterdam. We accept it as a kind of natural state that there are women there from Romania and Bulgaria, for example, often from Roma communities, who are forced to come here. We shrug our shoulders and walk past laughing. But these are dehumanizing scenes. And what happens behind the windows is much worse.”

https://wnl.tv/2024/02/19/duizenden-mensen-in-nederland-slachtoffer-van-mensenhandel-we-vinden-het-niet-erg-genoeg

FROM EASTERN EUROPE TO THE RED LIGHT DISTRICT IN AMSTERDAM

“Irene (not her real name) was trafficked from Eastern Europe to the Red Light District in Amsterdam. She was forced to work in prostitution for years"

https://www.thdv.nl/zien/prostitutie/65/van-oost-europa-naar-de-wallen

HUMAN TRAFFICKING IN AMSTERDAM

"Ukrainian Irina ended up in De Wallen through human trafficking: “One night I cried out to God: 'Save me from here!"

https://revive.nl/de-oekraiense-irina-kwam-door-mensenhandel-op-de-wallenb-terecht-op-een-nacht-riep-ik-het-uit-naar-god/

SEX SLAVERY IN THE NETHERLANDS

'The women on the Wallen have to pay their pimps between 1200 and 1500 euros a day’

https://www.ijmnl.org/stories/moderne-slavernij-in-nederland-de-vrouwen-op-de-wallen-moeten-hun-pooiers-dagelijks-tussen-de-1200-en-1500-euro-afdragen

FORCED PROSTITUTION TAKES PLACE THROUGHOUT THE NETHERLANDS

“A large proportion of the thousands of women in prostitution – as much as 90 percent – face humiliation, stalking, violation of privacy and violence.”

https://www.thdv.nl/actueel/nieuws/388/gedwongen-prostitutie-vindt-plaats-door-heel-nederland

LEGAL PROSTITUTION AND HUMAN TRAFFICKING

“ The prostitution business has become a fertile soil for human traffickers in the Netherlands. It is estimated that the number of human trafficking victims is around 6,250, with approximately 1,300 of those victims being underage Dutch girls[3]. The majority of these victims are used for forced prostitution and sexual exploitation.

One young woman, who had been forced into prostitution shed light on the dark world of legalised trafficking saying that “We are being sold just like something in a shop” A Romanian woman told her story of how she was lied to and sold and forced into prostitution for five years in the Netherlands.

https://eclj.org/geopolitics/eu/legal-prostitution-and-human-trafficking-in-the-netherlands

MYTH:PROSTITUTION IS A VICTIMLESS CRIME

Research concludes that:

-63% of women in prostitution experienced sexual abuse in their youth;

-75% of those surveyed have been homeless at some point in their lives;

-74% of women have ended up in prostitution as minors;

-70% have experienced physical violence during their time in prostitution;

-60% reported having experienced rape in prostitution;

-68% of people in prostitution met the symptoms of PTSD. The severity of the disorder was similar to that of people who were raped several times.

Prostitution is traumatic

Many women who work or worked as prostitutes meet the criteria of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. PTSD is a disorder that occurs when you have experienced one or more shocking experiences and have not been able to cope with this trauma. There are various complaints, including re-experiences of the trauma, dissociation and nightmares.

https://exxpose.nl/mensen-in-de-prostitutie/

MYTHS ABOUT PROSTITUTION

MYTH: LEGALISATION MAKES PROSTITUTION SAFE

“My experiences show that a woman doesn’t choose prostitution. She is choosing survival. Prostitution isn’t a choice. It is the absence of choice"

MYTH: PROSTITUTION STOPS MEN RAPING WOMEN

A US study found that men who buy sex were nearly eight times more likely to rape than other men.

A UN study of violent men in six countries found that buying sex was the second most significant common factor in the backgrounds and lifestyles of men found guilty of rape.

Men who pay for sex are more likely to perpetrate sexual violence. In all five countries, men who reported ever using the services of sex workers were more likely to report sexual violence perpetration compared to men who had never paid for sex.

MORE MYTHS ABOUT PROSTITUTION

https://nordicmodelnow.org/myths-about-prostitution/

Trikger · 2025-07-08T03:05:25+00:00

To me, sex shouldn't be considered labor to begin with. It comes with risks like pregnancy, STD's/STI's, permanent physical trauma as well as psychological and lasting emotional trauma like PTSD, anxiety, depression, eating disorders etc. Sex would never be an act that could be regulated enough to the point of it being suitable for labor.

Being forced to stock shelves for eight hours against your will for a single day without monetary compensation will not traumatize you.
Being forced to have sex for eight hours against your will for a single day without monetary compensation will traumatize you.

That's where the ethics lie.

I can't imagine many jobs that are more difficult to move on from than prostitution.

Sex should be an act done by people who want to have sex, not by people who want to get paid. If sex is just labor, concepts like monogamy and cheating wouldn't exist. It would be akin to washing another person's dishes or doing their laundry.

Business-Stretch2208 · 2025-07-08T04:52:04+00:00

While it can be argued that all labor under capitalism is exploitative, there is a pretty huge difference from being made to stock shelves vs being forced to have sex with 10 men a day.

Would you rather have 40 men a week fuck you in the ass or have to be a cashier?

There is also the specifically evil and statistically speaking much more traumatizing aspect of having sex commodified. There is a reason why it is much more traumatizing for a child to be raped vs being in a car accident, even if the car accident causes more physical damage to the body.

Sexual abuse/exploitation is a psychologically distinct and much more severe harm than other forms of abuse and exploitation.

CanaryHeart · 2025-07-08T07:51:03+00:00

I’m a feminist. Sex with a prostitute is consensual assuming that she entered sex work of her own free will and isn’t being forced or coerced anywhere along the way.

WebBorn2622 · 2025-07-08T04:50:46+00:00

Yes and no.

As a communist I think there’s no liberating work under capitalism, because the workers don’t own the means of production and like you said, you do not have the option to not work at the threat of starvation or homelessness.

When that’s said; non-consensual labor isn’t necessarily traumatizing. Being forced to participate in selling cookies for my sister’s soccer team, no matter how shit and how little I want to do it, is not traumatizing, it’s just inconvenient. Being forced to have sex against my will is traumatizing.

When you look at the rates of PTSD, the life expectancy and other statistics regarding people in sex work you don’t really get a picture that can be compared to working retail at all.

Physical_Sherbet199 · 2025-07-08T02:16:18+00:00

Why are you asking feminists this? I am not a feminist and I hold this view.

I simply don’t view stocking shelves and having sex with people on the same plane of activity.

Meshakhad · 2025-07-08T05:35:35+00:00

I agree with you in principle. I disagree with those who say that sex work is inherently non-consensual. I'd argue that to a degree, all work under capitalism is non-consensual, not just sex work.

That said, a high proportion of prostitutes (possibly the majority worldwide, unfortunately) are victims of human trafficking, while many others engage in survival prostitution. The difficult part is that it is not easy to tell them apart. So I would be EXTREMELY cautious about patronizing prostitutes for fear of contributing to the problem.

Different_Cress7369 · 2025-07-08T10:00:21+00:00

I think that people who choose to work in the sex industry should have fair wages and conditions, OHS considerations, penalty rates, sick, family and annual leave, as well as a pension fund and union oversight. I think people who find themselves in the sex industry against their will should be liberated and compensated.

Morgoth_Worshipper · 2025-07-08T06:00:27+00:00

Feminist here.

Some sex work is done voluntary by women, I have no issue with that. I have only issue with sex work done by women who were forced to do so by men, per example through human trafficking.

Avast_Lion · 2025-07-08T14:05:19+00:00

I am a card-carrying feminist, and I don’t think this at all. I think sex work is work, and consent is consent. To say sex workers can’t consent is patronizing. In my experience, women who identify as feminists are more likely to view sex work as work that should be legalized, regulated and unionized.

Superb-Foundations · 2025-07-08T07:11:33+00:00

I'm a feminist and I think sex work is real work 🤷

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Xeltar · 2025-07-08T21:47:32+00:00

I consider myself a feminist and sex work can be well regulated/consensual.

There is however the issue that can't be ignored that many sex workers are human trafficking victims. You can't have consent in those cases and it's not like clients would care to check.

Perfect-Resist5478 · 2025-07-09T03:29:44+00:00

I’m gonna take the bold stance that most labor IS nonconsensual, in that it’s coerced. Want to pay rent? Go to work. Want to put food on your table? Go to work. I think you’d find many if not most people would stop working if they didn’t need to earn money for things.

That being said, sex work is not always nonconsensual. But it can be

Sophiatab · 2025-07-10T22:59:24+00:00

Your initial premise if highly flawed. Not all feminist or all women believe paying for sex with prostitutes is always non-consensual.

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