[Q4M] In what way(s) were you "tricked" by women?

yvaN_ehT_nioJ · 2018-09-24T20:05:00+00:00

It's too late to explain this proper but I'll try briefly. Not that I won't write a wall of text but I won't think too much about it.

I was told love was all about being equal. But the dating market, and even the relationships themselves are anything but, unlike a lot of things in this world, relationships are generally sided towards women. By feminists I was told gender roles don't matter and it's about being a good person.

The "women are wonderful" image drilled into my head has also been shattered. It may seem obvious women are just as bad as men but sometimes just in different ways, but it still happened. It doesn't help anytime you may point any of that shit out you can get labeled as a misoginist but bashing men is totally okay somehow. Somehow women are also always the victim but I guess that's unrelated.

It was drilled in my head I had to respect women I had to try to never upset them and not sexualize them. I was raised to believe men were just pigs who wanted to stick their dick into everything and I would be different, as well as that women were better/less shallow and more romantic. My mom genuinely still believes women cheat way less.

My family would tell me the cool kids would work at mcdonalds while I, the "nice guy"(their words) would get a nice paying job and a woman would just randomly drop by.

Then all the media kept showing dudes becoming friends first and then making her realize how cool she actually is. For which you may think "That's just media", but then I'd ask female friends and family for advice.

"You're a nice guy! Someone will come eventually! ""Just be yourself!, Someone will love you for who you are" "Don't focus too much on it, it'll happen when you least expect it". They'd say women like it when you're kind, honest, caring, respectful, romantic, comitted, emotional, not act sexually assertive, etc, and basically just do everything you can to please her as much as you can. They told me to not be like all those assholes.

They then -Make fun of people thinking niceness alone will get them anywhere

-Accuse all nice guys of being rediculous as they call themselves nice, even though they were the ones calling male friends nice.

-accuse nice guys of "faking niceness for sex all along"

-accuse them of only caring about sex when they were raised to do the opposite

-accuse people of entitlement when they drilled into their heads a girl would randomly fall in your lap as long as you were nice

-Are surprised they're frustrated by plenty of assholes having more success

-Suddenly you're too mentally fucked and that's why you got nobody

-Sometimes lead these guys on but somehow they're the victim if the guy wants to call it quits

And the advice just leaves folks confused. It just doesn't make sense. If all I gotta do is keep being me and a good person.. Why are there many assholes out there doing way better than plenty of non assholes? What do they have that I don't? I mean there's also good people who get them, but if you say niceness is a bare minimum, why is it not required for so many dudes?

I came to this sub expecting to laugh at outlandish redpill beliefs. And while sure I have plenty of disagreements, the nuggets of truth they gave made way more sense than anything other people have ever said. Slowly this feeling you're asking about crept up over time by reading all the things that matched my observations, but I never kept notes so I really don't know how it happened. It was a gradual process.

CainPrice · 2018-09-24T19:42:15+00:00

Women hide their sexual sides from men they want to date seriously (as well as from men they don't like or don't want to fuck).

As a result, I grew up thinking that the path to success with women was to meet, become friends, grow to like each other over time, start dating, become boyfriend and girlfriend, get really serious about each other, start having sex, then get married.

It turns out that the real path is to meet, start having casual sex and hanging out in some kind of amorphous dating/sex phase, and break up before either of you start to like each other, repeat this a lot, and when you hit 27.5 years old, marry whoever you happen to be with at the time. Then maybe get divorced 2-10 years later.

If you spend your life following that top path instead of the bottom one, you end up in your 30s with a previous partner count of 3, all serious girlfriends, everybody in your dating pool has a partner count of 30, mostly casual hook-ups, and you have no idea how to play the game and have to find information like The Red Pill to learn.

LUClEN · 2018-09-25T00:12:43+00:00

Spending a lot of time in a female dominated discipline (sociology), I internalized ideas about the male gaze being inherently "problematic" [I've come to loathe this term] and viewed traditional notions of love and romance as unacceptable. Spending more time outside of the academy, I realize that my university reverberates one-sided, miopic views, reproducing ideology rather than verified knowledge.

When you leave campus, ideas about men being strong, stoic, fixers, and more not only prevail, they make you more successful in work and romance. Merely telling a woman she's pretty isn't harassment. College educated women are actually less likely to suffer sexual assault, yet act as though the epidemic is worse for them than their more oppressed, degree-less sisters.

Tl;Dr = Traditional manhood is not only attractive but has enormous use-value. At the end of the day, women aren't out here marrying men "inferior" to themselves. They seek taller, stronger, wealthier men, and traditional masculinity is a far better tool for becoming that man than the bullshit my soc program imbued in me

GayLubeOil · 2018-09-24T19:05:36+00:00

My primary school education tricked me into believing that the world functions via meritocracy.

thoth5431 · 2018-09-24T19:21:41+00:00

Love is not about brilliant feelings and happy endings. You can have a good time with literally anyone if you're not an asshole and you try hard enough.

Love is about who is willing to sit in the gutter with you, and who you're willing to do the same for. Who is going to be worth the suffering that you will experience in your life? Because even in a best case scenario, one of you are going to die sooner or later and that pain will be crushing.

Who gives a fuck if you can have a good time with someone if they're just going to dispose of you when you really need them?

What society taught me was a very superficial, shallow point of view about love and relationships. And that's because a lot of society is shallow and superficial. So, what can you do really?

JaJammerJan · 2018-09-24T21:13:25+00:00

Love/Relationships are about being physically attracted to someone and then appreciating their achievements, hobbies, personality, confidence, imperfections, vision, intelligence, etc.

Not the other way around as most women/parents/media have always lied to me. 'Just study hard, just get interesting hobbies, just get a good job, just be confident'- all that advice was COMPLETELY useless because I was ugly and therefore never even considered for a relationship. Without physical attractiveness, there can be no love.

exit_sandman · 2018-09-25T08:38:37+00:00

Since I've saved a fair bit of my older comments, here are a few posts about all these detrimental messages:

The first point is arguably the most important in the context of the SMP, so I'll repost it here at length:

To give you an example how my thought process went like when I was a lot younger:

generally, the SMP is roughly symmetrical. Why? 1) the gender ratio is 50:50, 2) women always complain about how hard dating is, 3) and the pervasive feminist dogma that there is virtually no area in life whatseover where women have it easier than men, shitlord. So for a looooong time, I operated under the assumption that women were in the same boat as men were even when it came to dating. The fact that women didn't approach was explained away with women actually wanting to be proactive, but being discouraged by the evil society that didn't like proactive girls who know what they want.
now when it comes to dating/connecting, I thought that decent women wouldn't simultaneously vet multiple options. Reason? Women always complain about how shitty their dates treat them and how much they want someone who cares for them and is truly interested in them etc. pp. so it's far-fetched to assume that they themselves would do exactly that to a guy they're talking to. Also, the idea of the SMP being symmetrical and all that (see 1.) - a woman having multiple options open to them not as an exception, but as a rule? For someone operating from nasty scarcity mentality it was simply inconceivable that any just remotely desirable member of the other sex would operate from abundance by default - the whole concept was simply alien to me.
Misleading ideas about what women want. All the fuss about how mature women are and how fine-tuned their social sensors are, and how much they value genuine interest. When women complain about the lack of "good men" what they mean is a man who pushes all their buttons and could easily get any woman, but for some reason thinks that she's such a special snowflake that he is super-affectionate to her and her alone. But my interpretation back then? When a woman does this, she has been burned (or has been close to it) and because of this is on the fence as a rule to avoid that happening to her again, and it was up to me as a man to convince her that NAMALT and that I wasn't just looking for a way to get in her pants. Girls falling heads over heels for a guy without even knowing him? Well, they must be dumb tramps and one wouldn't want them anyway. Girls actually valuing sexual attraction first and most? Can't be, everything from relationship columns to girltalk to journalism to sitcoms told us that the men want sex sex sex and only sex and should finally get off women's backs and let them in peace, or try to "buy" sex with romantic stuff and choreplay. Women who were commenting on the issue of male attractiveness saying "looks aren't that important" or "bulky muscles are ugly" as a rule didn't help either.
Male scarcity as opposed to female abundance: Average guys don't have that many options as women; romantically unsuccessful guys may have next to none. They simply have no actual frame of reference to how they are supposed to be treated and what they shouldn't put up with in the first place. A friend of mine (who has been in a relationship that already started out as controlling and got progressively shittier over 8 years until it finally ended) said to me that he would never ever tolerate that treatment again: he also had to experience it first-hand before he said that he shouldn't be supposed to put up with it (unsurprisingly, he also had a thoroughly bluepill education and has been invested in the idea that it wasn't women who tanked relationships, but men, and hence it was his obligation to make it work). Which also leads to the idea that you have to put up with everything. If you are a latebloomer and have never been in a relationship (or only very few very short ones), it's hard to put a foot down and say "fuck you and your smartphone, I'm outta here". Especially if you have no realistic idea of how you should interpret her signals (see above). And even if he was willing to do it, who knows when the next realistic opportunity is within reach? A woman who has two guys on call and 20 orbiters liking everything she posts on facebook on the other hand is in a totally different situation - when a guy bores her, she has the luxury of being able to ditch him and never look back.

Now, the same stuff for a young guy who is redpill-aware.

The SMP isn't symmetrical: women your age can afford to be passive because (a) guys are more inclined to be proactive and (b) they have a far larger target demographic than you do. They have it easy, you have it hard, suck it up or become attractive.
Women aren't better than men; and don't let their wailing about the shittiness of guys convince you otherwise - they have just a higher propensity to verbalize their self-pity regarding their lot. Given the chance, the average woman will be exactly as selfish as a guy. Which means she actually is more selfish than the average guy because she has chances to be so. Which includes stringing you along while the guy she actually wants makes up his mind.
No, women don't want what you've been told they want. They want a bunch of frustratingly basic things and want these served on a silver plate because they can; if you don't deliver, you are out of luck. She doesn't look for a "good guy", but for a guy who makes her wet (and in order to bet that guy, make yourself pretty, go lift, and be unapologetic about your sexuality). Fuck all these self-serving "looks aren't that important" and "huge muscles are ugly" and "sensitivity is important"-claims; women spout that shit to make themselves look deep and not-superficial. No, she isn't waiting for you to convince her that you're a "good guy", she isn't interested because she doesn't want what you consider a "good guy" in the first place.
It's not exclusively on you to make it work. Forget all those women complaining about how much men suck, they picked the guys who treated them like shit, hence it's on them and them alone. They could easily have bailed and picked a sensitive and nice pedestalizing doormat who would have treated her like a queen, but choose not to. So don't beat yourself up about it when she tries to guilt-trip you. And if you are in a relationship that is shitty, pull the plug and get into a new one. If that should be too hard for you, pull the plug and try to improve yourself until it's easy for you. How do you get there? Check [resource x, y and z]. But don't let a single woman control your life and what you're doing with it, when you can do far better.

SelfTaughtPiano · 2018-09-24T20:58:18+00:00

Women would have you believe men are the privileged ones. That women have it tough. Fuck that.

There is no group of human beings in human history as uniformly privileged as modern western white women.

Privileged far beyond the norm.

Five_Decades · 2018-09-24T22:27:00+00:00

I used to think women just wanted a guy who was nice to them. But then I learned they, just like men, have all these unconscious calculations to select a mate who has the most reproductive value.

And kindness is only important if you hit enough qualifiers on the good protector, provider, parent schema to qualify as a sexual creature.

But to be fair men are the same. An ugly woman with a great personality is a wonderful friend. An attractive woman with a great personality is a wonderful wife.

Humans suck.

whitetrashcarl · 2018-09-24T19:09:41+00:00

I was told over and over that women never offer token resistance and that you should absolutely 100% respect a woman who says no, and that there is no such thing as a “soft no”, etc. It was frustrating learning how that ACTUALLY worked in my mid 20s and realizing how much ass I’d left on the table by being clueless about token resistance. Basically my MO til that point was that women’s attraction was black/white, if she gave any kind of a no, then I’d just give up on her rather than treat it as a “not yet”

Another way that women tricked me in life is with those sort of absolute statements they make which really are only an expression of their current emotion. I’ll give an example—this girl I’m seeing is divorced. She sometimes says stuff like “I never even liked my ex at all, he’s such a terrible person.” I’m not sure why she says this but she also has these old Facebook posts up where she’s giving monologues about how great he is soooo. Idk I just don’t get why women universalize their current emotions like that if they don’t really mean it. when I was younger I took a lot of that stuff at face value , my mistake

blackedoutfast · 2018-09-24T23:17:35+00:00

not just parents, also pretty much every teacher, coach, school principals, guidance counselors, pastors, mentors and every other adult with a position of authority in my life were all constantly shoving all the bluepill bullshit down my throat.

i was naturally a very cocky, funny, socially outgoing kid. but around the time i started middle school it was like everyone decided that i couldn't be allowed to be one of those people. for some reason they decided that i needed to be some kind of nerdy beta nice guy.

everyone was always pushing the BP narrative - oh, you need to study hard and be good and have good grades and a perfect record so you can go to a good college and get a good job so you can buy a nice house, etc. that the kids who seem cool now are just obnoxious assholes and once everyone gets out into the real world they'll be losers and failures and the good people who studied hard will be successful, one day that nerd will be the jock's boss, no stay away from that girl, she's bad and seems slutty, you should date that nice girl, if you ever get in trouble or basically aren't a perfect NiceGuy beta all the time it will ruin your life, etc etc etc.

and BPers like to say "well, why didn't you just look around and see what was working for everyone else and realize that your parents were full of shit" - i did. i knew what i should have been doing, and wanted to do it, but i would get punished hard for the most minor things. clown around in school, get detention for basically nothing, but then go home and get yelled at for a few hours then grounded for a month. give that slutty bad girl a ride home after school and get my car keys taken away. sneak out to go to a party, get caught, get grounded for the rest of the summer. no matter what i did, even the most minor shit was blown way out of proportion and i would get yelled at for hours about how i'm ruining my life.

honestly i don't think i ever really believed it, i just started wearing that mask all the time. i got good at lying and dishonesty and compartmentalizing the part of me that would go out and do "bad" stuff from the identity that i let my parents and everyone else see. and that led to feeling a lot of guilt whenever i did something "bad" (bad according to BP).

BirdManBrrrr · 2018-09-24T23:25:16+00:00

If you just sacrifice for your partner and your family all will be well! Love is sacrifice, you know...
Happy wife happy life!
Treat her like a queen and she’ll love you.
Those girls will grow up eventually and they’ll want a guy like you.
Ugh I’m so tired of those jerks!
Marriage is work! You have to give 100%!
You’re great marriage material! (Read: betabux)

Yea, none of that is true nor was there appropriate context for any of it.

DespisedByWomen · 2018-09-25T01:34:17+00:00

The first thing women tell you when you admit you have dating problems is

You have to be kind to her, take an interest in her as a person

Then they will laugh at you when you say that doesn't work and tell you

lol sweetie niceness is the bare minimum, you need to offer more than that

And

lmao if you have to say you're nice then spoiler alert you're not actually nice

Then you look around the world and realize abusive relationships wouldn't exist if niceness was the bare minimum, men who hate and beat women get to experience love and intimacy while you rot alone.

Society told me kindness was attractive, it took until I was 21 to realize it was the opposite.

prostate-apostate · 2018-09-24T23:38:19+00:00

That decency and morality have any5hing to do with succeess with woman.

SelfTaughtPiano · 2018-09-24T21:01:20+00:00

Women do not love men.

prodigy2throw · 2018-09-24T18:42:38+00:00

It’s not so much being tricked it’s just when you see loser kids who are similar to you getting women you tend to use those as reinforcement that you are an okay guy.

concacanca · 2018-09-24T18:41:57+00:00

They let me believe that Santa Claus was real for 6 fucking years.

hammerhaunts · 2018-09-24T19:22:26+00:00

I got the impression from "feminism" that women were fragile as a result of near omnipresent sexism and needed better treatment from men to do well.

Gravel_Roads · 2018-09-25T08:44:32+00:00

I haven't. Maybe because I have a kind of unique upbringing, but I've never really felt tricked by men or women. It's always seemed logical that deep down, everyone was trying to "first attend the rafter in their own eye, before attending the splinter in their brother's". It's healthy for each individual person to look out for their own stability and well being, or else they have no stable world to even keep their loved ones in.

Maybe it's just because I grew up kind of feral in the mountains, so I missed out on a lot of this social deception in my formative years. My parents couldn't even convince me there was a toothfairy.

Whodunnit88 · 2018-09-25T09:37:32+00:00

Growing up as a teenager I always saw the popular and attractive hang out and date one another. I also saw how differently girls were treated compared to boys. How the girls were treated like precious cups of fine tea cups whilst boys were seen as menaces. And it makes me wonder if all this putting people into a box by treating them in alignment with antiquated ideas of gender is causing all this resentment.

atlantic68 · 2018-09-24T21:59:22+00:00

0 ways. I ignored the media at a young age and knew the truths of the world through intuition.

Women are very similar to men.

KrivenRaven · 2018-09-25T00:57:40+00:00

Cunt told me she wouldn't pull the football away...

wtknight · 2018-09-24T19:00:26+00:00

I’ve always thought that the “Be yourself” advice that women sometimes give is kind of a trick. The issue is, it’s the opposite of “Pretend that you’re someone else,” which is also bad advice (unless you’re just a guy who only cares about sex and not emotional connections) and hurts women by deceiving them, which is why they tend to give the Be Yourself advice. The correct advice in my opinion is to treat approaching and early dating like a job interview and to play oneself up and impress women (although a guy shouldn’t just be talking about himself, of course) but it took me a while to figure that out on my own.

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[deleted] · 2018-09-25T08:44:14+00:00

None particularly when it came to hooking up. I always treated it like a fun game and had my share accordingly. There were a few times when i didnt make my move and regretted it.

I got a bit more jaded when I moved in with a girl which was about aged 24 (too young). From examples of people around me of solid relationships, I thought that I should first of all be reliable and a good friend.

All sorts of other things I didnt realise. Too many to really get into in fact, but the biggest lie was and is that women will appreciate you sacrificing yourself for them.

abaxeron · 2018-09-25T17:51:03+00:00

Can I boil it all down to one? - Women lied to me that they can solve problems.

Female teachers reacted to reports of bullying by promising to take action. And never did anything else besides promising.

PhotosyntheticChad · 2018-09-28T23:57:30+00:00

My ex-girlfriend lied about being pregnant so that I’d stay with her. Obviously it wasn’t true, but I did find out that she had purposely stopped taking the pill to try and make it true without my knowledge.

I think that’s pretty ‘tricksy’.

I don’t know what outcome, other than me noping the fuck out, she was expecting when I found out.

Title	[Q4M] In what way(s) were you "tricked" by women?
Author	zeitgirl_
Upvotes	21
Comments	270
Date	September 24, 2018 6:35 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/9ikjal/q4m_in_what_ways_were_you_tricked_by_women/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/q4m-in-what-ways-were-you-tricked-by-women.260715 https://theredarchive.com/post/260715