What A Typical Man Faces

asdf_clash · 2015-06-23T16:12:31+00:00

Today I learned that my average life is not your average life.

C0UNTdrama · 2015-06-23T16:38:54+00:00

This seems more like a personal list, as in, this speaks more about you rather than men in general. I'm having a hard time relating to even one of these things.

[deleted] · 2015-06-23T13:56:54+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Cbus_anonymous · 2015-06-23T15:32:27+00:00

Ugh. This whole thing reeks of delusions of persecution and grandeur. It may be helpful to you to know that. I can only hope that you don't actually believe any of it; shit like this is intended to sway people with schizophrenic tendencies.

So, I was raised in an exceptionally rigid religious environment where the influx of information was tightly controlled, and I was sent to religious schools. So, literally, my earliest teachings exclusively said the same thing. You know when I heard my first bit of disparate information? Kindergarten. Because, you know, everyone doesn't raise their kids identically, and kids interact. And you know when I first noticed hypocrisy in religion? 2nd grade. By 3rd grade, I knew most people weren't practicing what they preached.

No one had to teach it to me, and it spite of being raised in a vacuum, I picked up on it, because it's readily observable. Is your "average" 25 year old mentally retarded, by chance? Because I had a better grasp on reality before I hit double digits in age than your 25 year old does. In fact, this isn't abnormal, recognizing variability in relationships is a developmental task that's expected of 6th graders.

As a side note, "defraud"? Really? Your entitlement is showing.

Rejection isn't just a fact of this fictional guy's life...it's a fact of everyone's life. Recognition of this should've happened by around 1st grade. You don't get everything you want. As long as we're on the subject, hot guys are rejected 9/10 too, but they're confident enough that they don't sit around whining about it, because they're not crazy. They don't expect that every woman they hit on is going to be up for a ONS, and they're right, most aren't. But it's water off a duck's back: they move on to the next target until they get what they're looking for, it doesn't wound their courage. Every resume you send out isn't going to land you a job offer. Christ, please grow up.

Where's your sense of responsibility? What's psychologically wrong with the men who make claims like this? It's just batshit. You write like you're smarter than this, so it's hard for me to rectify.

SLUDGEBORG · 2015-06-23T15:39:19+00:00

A lot of this is true, but I think you're being over dramatic about it. You might want to try thinking of women as people, just like men. Sure we have our differences but, when it comes down to it, most women want the same thing men do: someone they are attracted to, that has all the qualities of a person that will make a good spouse/parent and also brings some joy/passion into their lives.

A lot of people face rejection. it generally comes down to the guy to have to make the first move because that's how our society has formed part of the gender roles. I'm not saying that's fair, but that's still how most women think. Everyone goes through periods of dry spells and women certainly have the upper hand when it comes to easy sex, but they have just as much of a hard time as men to when it comes to finding the right partner for a long term relationship. Women are attracted to men for different reasons. Also, you have to realize everyone is different. NOWALT is really true. Some people don't like sex at all. Some people are attracted to the same sex. So don't go around making blanket statements that segregate people in your mind. You're just creating a lot of negativity that will just make it harder for you to make a good bond with the opposite sex. People need to better their social skills and learn to love themselves before getting really comfortable and capable of successfully dating and finding a good and long term mate. And once you get there, it can still take a long time to find the right person at the right time.

As far as the rape and sexual harassment stuff: It's not hard to not harass women. Just don't go around making sexual jokes at the office. Millions of people work all day and don't get fired for saying stupid shit.

For rape accusations, it's realistically pretty rare that if you end up having consensual sex with a woman that's NOT stumbling drunk, she will declare rape. I've never known anyone that's happened to. If you're super worried about it, only have sex with people you've dated a couple times and make sure they are sober and definitely into it. Most women aren't trying to ruin your life.

andrewisgood · 2015-06-23T16:53:14+00:00

This seems more of like, "what the typical MRA is paranoid about".

How have they lied? What is being lied about? This is a tad vague and as said below, over dramatic. EVERYTHING YOU HAVE BEEN TOLD WAS A LIE!!!!! Like, wait a minute, just a lie. Were people mistaken, a lie implies the truth was known and you deceived. This just violates occam's razor here like mad.
Quit being a nice guy who is only nice to get in bed with a woman. For awhile, I thought they didn't exist, and then I got exposed to a lot of online communities that proved me dead wrong. Women don't owe you anything because you're a decent human being to them.
Who says that now? Also, slut shaming is stupid so people who do that are also stupid.
Ok, number 4, and my comparison to the 10 commandments is apt. The first 3 are all about pleasing god, and with this, the first 4 problems faced are all women's issues. Women are autonomous beings and their choices of not dating you shouldn't be this typical problem that men face. This is coming off as bitter complaining, I mean, god damn pal, maybe the reason women don't want to be with you is because of all this nonsense that you're spouting. Maybe it's YOU.
Prove it. Also, every waking moment. So when I go and take a shower in the morning, someone is seeing how I compare to other men. This is getting into paranoid conspiracy theory territory.
Rejection is apart of life, whether it's in relationships, jobs, etc. Get over it. Boo hoo, this thing you wanted to have sex with won't talk to you. In the immortal words of Scott Steiner, "you might get the sympy of the people, but you don't get my sympy at all!"
Who in the ever loving fuck says that? What people do you hang around with? This seems to be what a typical abused child faces.
Well, most people are virtually invisible to other people, especially if you're like in an airport like I am, and all you care about is getting from point A to point B. Also, your attitude seems like, women are liars, women are these terrible people who don't tell you what they want, and I feel you have this self fulfilling prophecy that you will always get rejected because of how you seem women.
Like, a marriage is between two people, right? So, logically, that could be what a typical woman faces too in regards to marriage.
God damnit, why won't woman just co-operate and have sex with me because I'm nice to them?
This is like, the worst here. I love how a typical man has to go through this, instead of a typical woman has to go through harassment and problems at work. This is like how fundamentalists christians have it rough because they have to live in a world where gay people might offend their sensibilities.
And, the all too common false rape accusation, it's like MRA/Red Pill bingo here. Instead of her regretting it, she was taken advantage of maybe.

TL:DR: This whole post reminds me of two songs. Welcome to my Life by Simple Plan for being incredibly whiney and Don't Download this Song by Weird Al Yankovic for talking about someone very privileged bitching about really dumb things. Women are people dude.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0U0AlLVqpk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGM8PT1eAvY

[deleted] · 2015-06-23T15:13:10+00:00

[permanently deleted]

taiboworks · 2015-06-23T13:55:20+00:00

Up to this point, literally everyone has lied to, defrauded, and deceived you about the sexual marketplace, about women, about what is attractive to women, and the dating/marriage scene.

if this is applicable to anyone, it's socially clueless men who were blind to what women were actually interested in.

You are constantly evaluated, tested, and put up against other men to see how you measure up. Every waking minute, you know that someone somewhere is constantly putting you in the scales and evaluating you against other men. Life is constant, relentless competition. You MUST prove yourself every single minute of every single day. There is never, ever, any respite from this.

you, red pillers, and other hopelessly narcissistic types don't do this with women?

Nobody gives two shits about you. You are virtually invisible to the entire world. If you lose your job, fuck you. If your girl breaks up with you, fuck you. If you get depressed or down, fuck you. If you have financial problems, fuck you.

is this an alternative universe where people don't have friends? parents? family? or are you just saying the hot girls that are out of your league don't give two shits about you and that's all that matters to you?

After she marries you, you have a better than 50% chance she will divorce you or you will have serious marital problems.

how freaked out are you of your 100% chance of dying some day?

You will go through grinding, excruciating sexual dry spells, both in and out of marriage.

how long can you tolerate not have sex, like in the case of end of pregnancy, post pregnancy recovery before your suffering is too much?

If you say even one wrong thing at work, if you offend even ONE delicate flower, you will be accused of sexual harassment, and you will probably lose your job.

how often do you tend to say offensive things to people? do you have any sense of obligation, personal responsibility, to not be offensive/annoying to others?

If you have sex with a girl who regrets it later, you could likely be the subject of a false rape accusation.

what are the real statistical odds of this? has it happened to you or any friends of yours?

strongalfalfa · 2015-06-23T15:18:18+00:00

But the thing is there are plenty of nice women out there. They are invisible to terpers because they are chasing after the hot women. Hot women go after hot guys. You just have to deal with it.

And I honestly don't buy this whole 80/20 idea, that most men get no sex. It seems like bullshit. Plenty of people at college have sex.

quantumtrollening · 2015-06-23T14:34:41+00:00

Oh dear lord...I'd ask, rhetorically, if you actually believe this, but unfortunately it's not even all that unbelievable that you do. Let's just go through the list, shall we?

Up to this point, literally everyone has lied to, defrauded, and deceived you about the sexual marketplace, about women, about what is attractive to women, and the dating/marriage scene.

Nope. It seems like you're talking about romcoms, but looking to romcoms for dating advice is like looking to action movies for advice on resolving workplace disputes. The average guy has seen a very wide variety of viewpoints about dating and what's attractive by the time he's 25, including (gasp) some redpill tenets. Haven't we all heard from Nice Guys^tm that girls only go after assholes? That's redpill, and it's "common knowledge".

When you point this out, you are told that there are lots of "nice girls" out there for a "nice guy" like you and that "you will make a nice girl really happy someday! (just not me)".

I guess? Seeing as how the first point is melodramatic hyperbole, pointing out the first point to a real person would most likely result in "What the hell are you talking about?"

Also, when you point this out, you are told that only sluts and stupid, insecure, low self esteem women date and have sex with good looking, confident, dominant men with status.

Nope. People like successful, physically attractive people. Our society doesn't really hide that fact. It does tend to be presented in a more gender-neutral way though; it's not like most guys would turn down a chance to sleep with Taylor Swift or whoever the Pop Star du Jour is.

When you point out that the average girls also like those good looking, confident, dominant men with status and that they routinely sleep with those men, you are told "no, no, that never happens. You are deceived. You are not really seeing what you are saying you are seeing."

/r/thathappened

You are constantly evaluated, tested, and put up against other men to see how you measure up. Every waking minute, you know that someone somewhere is constantly putting you in the scales and evaluating you against other men. Life is constant, relentless competition. You MUST prove yourself every single minute of every single day. There is never, ever, any respite from this.

Nope. I suppose at work people do evaluate your performance at the tasks which you are literally being paid to do, but outside of that, this is mostly in your head brah. Most people don't give a shit what you do, and whether you do it well or poorly.

Because of the relentless competition and evaluation, rejection is a fact of your life. You will get rejected 9 times out of 10. At least one of those is a nuclear rejection. You must, MUST learn to steel yourself against rejection.

Sounds like you're talking about hitting on strangers here. Or do you believe that the average guy will be outside, minding his own business, and people will walk up to him and tell him "I reject you!"?

Nobody gives two shits about you. You are virtually invisible to the entire world. If you lose your job, fuck you. If your girl breaks up with you, fuck you. If you get depressed or down, fuck you. If you have financial problems, fuck you.

Uh, yeah, that's true for everybody dude (assuming you're speaking about strangers, anyway). Hate to break it to you, but nobody's the center of the world or of society, and that's ok.

If on the other hand you believe that the average guy at 25 is literally unloved and unwanted by literally everyone in his life....no. That's stupid. Why, was this your personal experience? Or is this something you intuitively know must be true?

You are virtually invisible to nearly all women. Women will not tell you this, but the primary reason they are expressing interest in you is not because they like YOU, or because they want YOU, or because they are interested in YOU. Women's interest in an average 25 year old man is in his Beta Bucks. She hopes to get him to wife her up. Most girls interested in this average 25 year old man are high N sluts, or girls with mental issues, or girls who got burned by a player or three, and are looking to cash in their SMV chips. You will be expected to finance her new "wife" lifestyle.

...what. No. This isn't what a typical man faces, because this isn't what basically anyone faces. I suppose if you're in the top, say, 5% by wealth at age 25, you'll have to deal with a lot of people trying to trade you sex for money, but that'll be true when you're 65 too. That's a function of being super wealthy (which the "average" guy by definition isn't), not a function of being a guy in your 20's.

Do you believe it's possible for women to want to get married and have that desire not be about an expectation that they'll be supported by their husbands? In other words, do you believe that marriages where the woman makes as much as or more than the husband can exist?

After she marries you, you have a better than 50% chance she will divorce you or you will have serious marital problems.

Sure, I guess? Most first marriages don't work out, and it sucks for both partners. Why are you pretending this is a problem only for men? Is this contingent on pretending that the "average" marriage a 25 year old gets into involves supporting his 1950's housewife?

You will go through grinding, excruciating sexual dry spells, both in and out of marriage.

Sometimes people want to have sex and don't get to have it. This is true for almost everyone. Stop whining as if this were a real problem, it's unbecoming.

If you say even one wrong thing at work, if you offend even ONE delicate flower, you will be accused of sexual harassment, and you will probably lose your job.

So don't hit on your coworkers. It's not complicated. If you are uncertain on what constitutes hitting on your coworkers, then try to be safe and don't compliment women on their appearance, talk about what you'd do to "dat ass", or invite female coworkers back to your place to check out your "sketches".

If you have sex with a girl who regrets it later, you could likely be the subject of a false rape accusation.

[Citation needed]

Since I can already feel the google-searched one-or-three anecdotes incoming, please remember that in order to justify the claim that a certain outcome is "likely", you need statistical analysis showing that false rape accusations occur to a majority (or even large minority) of men.

EDIT: Oh wow, I forgot the one about how not having secks is literally torture!

CursedLemon · 2015-06-23T13:52:05+00:00

Aside from the fact that half of those are bullshit, here's the problem. If we look at gender conflict as an adversarial, male vs. female thing (which Red Pillers are so fond of), then women's existential issues exist under the thumb of men, whereas men exist under the thumb of...other men. Don't like the constant competitive atmosphere? Don't like the disposability? Barking at women sure ain't gonna solve those problems, you need to talk to your fellow man.

imaterriblelurker · 2015-06-23T15:17:18+00:00

The average man and woman in the US is overweight...

TheHeroReditDeserves · 2015-06-23T21:21:06+00:00

there's a downward limit to myopic pessimism right ? if you go down the rabbit hole far enough you eventually hit the core of the earth.

OfSpock · 2015-06-24T03:55:50+00:00

You missed a few things, like losing his virginity about 17-19 and having a few of the 4-7 sexual relationships that an average man has in his lifetime.

Also, the divorce rate never topped 40% and you can influence that by marrying a woman similar in age to you, with a college education and not too early.

Liz-e-Liz · 2015-06-26T10:18:49+00:00

p.s. how dare you accuse us of only being interested in "beta bucks" after making it so obvious that you're only interested in vaginas... Have you heard of projection?

Here are some tips for you. Stop trying to get down a girl's pants first thing after meeting her. Stop blaming our entire class for being whatever it is that you believe we are. Consider that we might not be interested in you because you (as an individual) aren't offering love, respect, trust, loyalty or anything else.

And please, take a glance at the third fingers of our left hand before you make a pass. It'll save you a lot of trouble. And if you get a girlfriend and you want to save other men the trouble, then get her a ring. It doesn't have to be an engagement ring or anything expensive -- just a simple, commonly understood symbol of your commitment. Get one for yourself too if you think you might need an easy way to let down all the women constantly trying to get in your pants.

ERockEfreedom · 2015-06-23T15:02:25+00:00

You are constantly evaluated, tested, and put up against other men to see how you measure up. Every waking minute, you know that someone somewhere is constantly putting you in the scales and evaluating you against other men.

No, the only one comparing you to other guys all the time is YOU.

PollaTronante · 2015-06-23T17:42:09+00:00

Can we please STOP with the "CMVs" that are just people spouting off their lived experiences and personal biases with no expectation or hope for intelligent debate?

Meetchel · 2015-06-23T17:47:10+00:00

Only on Reddit is the average American man 25 years old; he is not earning average income and does not have average debt.

FailEarlyFailHard · 2015-06-23T17:34:44+00:00

In the end it doesn't work to try to turn around bp's complaints against it like this. They don't have any empathy for you and don't want to see things from your point of view. Furthermore, by trying to play their oppression game you've bought into their way of thinking and agreed to their rules. I recommend you take a look at this, specifically:

And please, please do not become some pathetic creature, like a “men’s rights activist”, who thinks it’s clever to turn the tables on progressives by using their own rhetoric and institutions. Progressivism is conspiratorial, but it’s not a conspiracy whose purpose is to benefit one person. If you make one social justice bully apologize because he committed, say, “ageism” against your middle aged self — you’ve enrolled, unwittingly, as a foot soldier in the progressive movement. The battle you won was meaningless, the person you defeated cannon fodder.

LUClEN · 2015-06-23T22:35:37+00:00

I must be atypical then as most don't apply to me. How do you know those are really the experiences of the average guy?

wombatinaburrow · 2015-06-24T02:26:43+00:00

I asked Mr Wombat about this, and he thinks you need a cup of tea and a good lie down.

whystoppnow · 2015-06-25T06:16:39+00:00

I hope you didn't assume people would actually sympathize with this. People don't sympathize with male problems. They don't realize how important legacy, honor, glory and renown are to us. Even some men vary by degrees with how they will regard it. One thing for sure is that men like myself are obsessed with death. Not in dying but in realizing everyday that I only have one life and that I refuse to be mediocre and live quietly. All men have a need to be great but we can't all be. The lashing out is from men who are still in the fight and desperately afraid of losing because there is only one round.

Liz-e-Liz · 2015-06-26T09:48:37+00:00

I've almost always come to reddit exclusively for convenient news links, but the game theory in this... sub-genre of sub-reddits...? I can't resist.

Dear Mr. Lonelyheart,

Despite your laundry list of male and female sexist stereotypes, our experiences don't match up. My dating life began at 21, when a genuinely nice guy offered to buy me a drink, casually chatted with me, and eventually asked for my number. He called me that night for a ride (which he didn't actually need), and I naively fell for it. Then he invited me in. After more drinking, more chatting, some kissing and heavy petting, he stopped: "No, I want to do things right this time, so I can't sleep with you our first night together." Being 10 years my senior, overweight, unshaven, underdressed and a smoker, he wasn't good looking, confident or dominent, and didn't have much status or wealth. But he came to see me again the next week -- suit and tie, dress shoes, haircut. I didn't even tell him that I would be out again that weekend, but he was a gentleman through it all: giving me his jacket when I was cold and driving me home when I was clearly intoxicated (without so much as a hint of sexual intentions). The third time, he invited me on a legitimate date, it went really well, we made love and he asked me to be his girlfriend. I agreed, he eventually proposed, and we're going on five years now. We both work, I cook, he does the dishes and laundry, and we share other chores based on who feels like doing them on any given day.

See the theme, here? It's sharing: mutual respect, mutual trust, mutual work, mutual bank account. Believe it or not, our only serious marital problems came early in when he would get possessive and controlling... because he was paranoid that I was "just using him". Like checking for my car at my friend's house, starting a big fight because "It wasn't there!" and calling me a liar; only to realize later (and tell me much later) that he checked the wrong street.

If that seems at all familiar, it should, because that's how you sound in your post: like some paranoid guy with low self-esteem, who blames 50% of the population for his sexual relations issue. Right? You can't possibly be causing your own problems? It's all the women (and some men) who "lied" to you.

crimeo · 2015-06-23T20:07:08+00:00

That's a nice autobiography you have there. I missed the part where you explained how it is "typical" though.

gregariousnefarious · 2015-06-23T20:34:30+00:00

Lots of problems with this but I don't have all night to psychoanalyze this mess, but one thing really is glaring.at me:

The whole "you'll make someone very happy someday (just not me)"... Sounds like you're taking soft rejection from girls and literally hoping to get real actionable advice. That's not a good idea. Very few women rejecting a man will say "yeah try dressing better and lay off the crazy self pity, wouldya?" If you need advice on succeeding with women, you should be looking to friends who are lucky with women. To say that you've been betrayed and lied to when it appears you're referring to the words of women who shot you down, I'd say you're not being fair...after all, we ALL face rejection and for a whole host of reasons, women typically will soften the blow. It's not strictly true what they're telling you, maybe, but it comes from one of two places: compassion (because they feel bad rejecting you), or fear (worried about what you would do if they told you they think you're a sad sack who needs some perspective).

buttlollipop · 2015-06-23T22:12:22+00:00

I actually agree with most of this (although to me some of them seem like minor exaggerations, but fine) except for a few things:

1.) If a man is going through a hard time, there may not be as many societal resources for him to get help, but doesn't he have family and friends?

2.) The 50% divorce stat is overblown when you filter for things like college education, age and race. If you're white and college educated and over 25 when you marry, it's way lower than that. But okay, fair enough, divorce is pretty horrible.

3.) Average girls may prefer the best guys, but don't average guys also prefer the best girls? That's just life. I personally think everyone should date their physical equivalent, but I've seen average guys (self proclaimed) on this sub saying they wouldn't sleep with any woman below 8/10.

Title	What A Typical Man Faces
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	33
Comments	370
Date	June 23, 2015 1:46 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/3atv94/what_a_typical_man_faces/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/what-a-typical-man-faces.281476 https://theredarchive.com/post/281476

Comments