To what extent does the modern SMP damage women?

flamingoinghome · 2019-11-06T16:30:56+00:00

Literally the only part of any of what you mentioned that's "modern" is women being open about this stuff and the existence of online dating. I am rather pro-OLD, so I won't touch on that one except to say that it sounds like people here are too paranoid to use it in good faith.

Women in years and decades and even centuries past were lied to for sex, were cheated on, were abused. They sustained psychological (and physical) damage, and were maybe not as good of partners as they could have been. Some sat out and became spinsters; some married anyway. Some of those marriages wound up good and loving; some were awful. Of the awful ones, some stuck it out in quiet desperation, some divorced (in the early 19th century, the United States had the highest divorce rate in the world), some lived apart without divorce (far more common than you'd think), and some killed themselves (gruesome fact: when the US introduced no-fault divorce, suicide rates among married people plummeted).

The new part is the talking; the rest is the same.

finch2200 · 2019-11-06T15:43:57+00:00

Part of me wants to say that modern SMP does make it difficult for women to find a man that will see them as more than just a warm hole, and actually stick around for a relationship, since casual sex is seemingly encouraged nowadays.

Another part of me wants to say today’s SMP is a benefit to women since they can easily find someone willing to stay if they just lower their standards.

Whether the first one is me being too sympathetic or the second one is me expressing my inner incel, I’m unsure of.

wtknight · 2019-11-06T15:16:23+00:00

It’s because of feminism, birth control, and the message that free love is just good fun. Love and romance has become secondary. I shake my head whenever I read a post here about how important “sexual compatibility” is. Most western women have bought into this, but some haven’t, so I blame the ones who have for buying in to the bullshit.

As for men, most of them are going to think with their penises, so the attractive ones who benefit are going to rejoice at women wanting casual sex and of course most of them are going to just use women. It’s up to women to demand relationships and emotions beforehand and reject the casual sex narrative or most aren’t going to ever get the best out of men.

_Anarchon_ · 2019-11-06T17:43:38+00:00

To what extent does the modern SMP damage women?

Sub-machine pistols are deadly. You shouldn't use them.

TheJim66 · 2019-11-06T15:17:24+00:00

They develop Chad addiction and are , paradoxically ,more nervous about being pumped and dumped.

SILENTSAM69 · 2019-11-06T19:47:41+00:00

It is really funny that the OP thinks any of this is new. Nothing has really changed except that the internet exists now.

Give it a few decades and people will complain that online dating use to he honest. They will act as if things were better now.

Emervila · 2019-11-06T15:57:54+00:00

When you are dominant in the game when your side set the rules or at least bends them as they want having the upper hand, when the entire culture gives you a pussy pass and praise you even for your mistakes (i.e. single mothers), when you are the overpriced scarce commodity, all damaged resulting form that it's SELF INFLICTED DAMAGE.

Women have this ridiculous narrative of going OLD then complaint about fuck boys, rinse and repeat as many times bc doing the same many times is how you get different results.

Yesterday I was on my way to have lunch when I head 3 women on their 30s', one of them said "it doesn't matter who you love and how much you love him, all men betray" the 3 of them agreed to this entire male conception and kept walking having the conversation about it... that's called Damage Goods but they CHOOSE these men, douche-bags as responsible for what they are/do also women are responsible for what they choose BUT women don't like to take responsibility. What called my attention was the way so easy and simple they all agreed to that without even a small comment against like an undefiable truth had been spoken and kept talking about how impossible is to be loved by men

Skratt · 2019-11-06T15:29:52+00:00

To what extent, if at all, are women damaged by the modern SMP?

Not much at all. Of course aside from abusive relationships, cheaters, etc. (which are just part of the free market. I mean if there's millions of potential partners, some are gonna be crappy), it looks to me like women are doing good. We can choose between marriage, dating, casual sex, or just being single and working on our career, instead if being pigeonholed into marriage like the "old" SMP. So no, I don't think the new SMP is damaging us at all.

CosmicBioHazard · 2019-11-06T15:22:58+00:00

well, all these things certainly damaged me, but I can’t help but think it would be better if I still had that special first time to save for the next wife (am guy, btw).

There’s a degree of discomfort I’d have as a guy with a woman who’s had another guys’ dna in her body, that ‘ick’ factor is the biggest turn off, second biggest is the possibility she walks away because I’m not special to her/ don’t give her the same ‘butterflies’ as the first.

Incidentally, those are the same fears I have for myself looking for another wife; I don’t know for a fact some of her DNA never got into me, and I want any woman I’m going to wife to be special to me, and that means not knowing the difference what sex is like with someone else. Something about marital satisfaction dropping drastically after one partner for males, too.

Am I projecting? probably. Do the concerns that come with n-count differ between men and women? absolutely. I’d put it within the realm of possibility that the issues brought to a persons’ relationship stability by n count are neuro-biologically based enough that a pill could be made to fix them given enough research.

2019-11-06T16:51:29+00:00

I think we spend too much time stressing the disadvantages men have in online dating, but honestly, the single women in my life complain about it the most. Delete, re-download, then delete again ad infinitum. Despite their plethora of options, they abhor OLD more than they express any sense of enthusiasm for it.

Let's not talk about The Wall.

W_Edwards_Deming · 2019-11-06T17:44:47+00:00

More to do with quality women being "a keeper" and thus not ending up with a large partner count.

jayval90 · 2019-11-06T18:30:42+00:00

So I think that one of the draws of OLD is that you increase your options. The problem is that increased options/fishing out of a larger pool makes it harder to identify a good match, not easier. It literally has the exact opposite effect of what it seems like.

It's MUCH harder to choose one good man out of a pool of a thousand than out of a pool of 10.

ToraChan23 · 2019-11-06T18:46:22+00:00

Being lied to for sex, cheated on, abused of some kind, all things correlated to having a high n, are what damages women for future relationships and makes them less than ideal partners.

You left out women's personal choice to have a high number of sex partners. You're automatically associating a high N-count with the woman being wronged in some way, which is false.

I think we spend too much time stressing the disadvantages men have in online dating, but honestly, the single women in my life complain about it the most. Delete, re-download, then delete again ad infinitum. Despite their plethora of options, they abhor OLD more than they express any sense of enthusiasm for it.

First, your friend's experiences can hardly make up a strong indication of what women as a group's experiences are.

Second, it was your friends' personal choice to engage in OLD, along with the repetitive "delete, re-download, then delete again ad infinitum" they subject THEMSELVES to. If OLD is so bad for them, why do they continue to engage with it over and over again?

Also, what reasons did your friends give for disliking OLD? And why do you seem to discount the women who actively have advantages with OLD, ranging from ease of mate selection, huge financial incentives, and unlimited attention?

From my observations the women who are the damaged ones we often speak about have been worn down by the dating market, not necessarily sex itself. It just happens to be correlated with n count.

What exactly is wearing them down? The sex that leads to their increased N-count?

The sex they willingly chose to have?

To what extent, if at all, are women damaged by the modern SMP?

This is too difficult a question to answer, because everyone would have a different definition of what "damaged" means, how to fix that "damage", and if that "damage" can be or is even worth fixing.

Women and men are both damaged and make positive gains from OLD. So it is a moot issue since in order to avoid "damage", both women and men can choose to NOT use OLD or we get rid of OLD all together, which isn't going to happen.

ontherailstoday · 2019-11-07T01:13:51+00:00

I think what is being called "damage" is a highly subjective thing. For example I think a lot of the cynicism about men that comes from bad experiences with men is actually highly constructive personal growth and quite conducive to a woman eventually valuing highly and putting much faith in a man who consistently proves himself not to be that way. To be seen as the best man a woman has ever known either involves her thinking you are some sort of superhuman, or her thinking most other men are kind of crap.

On the other hand a man who is incapable of proving himself to a wary and cynical woman of being worthy of her trust probably feels it is damage.

sadomasochrist · 2019-11-06T15:50:02+00:00

Economically speaking, most women in the bottom 80% who engage in casual sex will blunt their chances of ending up in a stable arrangement and their long term happiness.

This is economically certain so long as women are only happy with above average men.

So the question boils down to "are most women happy just sleeping around and traveling?"

That answer seems to be no.

From what I understand about the FSM, these women are losers after everyone else has kids.

Dora_Bowl · 2019-11-06T15:25:49+00:00

It might "damage" individual women(I do not see how exactly), but women in general I do not really think are being damaged by modern dating.

corey_trevorson · 2019-11-06T16:56:28+00:00

I will say I do have sympathy, but I temper it with the fact that women choose to continue to participate. Furthermore, they can participate and have much more success than average men at getting "what they want."

The guys that might actually stick with them for the long haul, actually love them and care for them, that type of guy is something they'll never find on Tinder and these shallow "do you like my face?" sort of platforms.

I do believe that the SMP damages women. I'll preface this by saying that I'm not an incel, I'm 26M and probably a 7 attractiveness wise if I had to judge myself. I've had a few partners and also turned women down (casual sex is depressing to me).

I was talking to this girl that I admire quite a bit, we were flirting pretty hard and then at a certain point she just broke into a rant. She started telling me she needed a "real man" in the traditional sense, and that because I was hitting on her I must not be a real man. Keep in mind that I've told this girl I like her before, and did the niceguy approach and it didn't work in the slightest.

Meanwhile she'll tell me she's "in love" with some dude who obviously just wants to fuck and bolt at the first opportunity (the guy told her he "wasn't ready for a relationship," which is the fuckboy's favorite line).

The moral of the story is, she considered giving me a chance, and then all of the sudden turned on a dime and started lecturing me about the way I should treat women, and what she was lecturing me about is the EXACT way I treat women in relationships.. It just screams bipolar disorder, and yet she continues to go from guy to guy, searching for something she knows she won't find with the guy she falls for.

The icing on the cake is that she told me that I'm the one that needs therapy. I was only a psych student for two years, but that's classic projection, considering that a year ago this girl was in therapy herself for being in an emotionally damaging relationship.

And all I can do is shrug my shoulders, take the abuse to the chin and move on. I broke the act and told her straight up, I want to treat you like you say you deserve to be treated, because I genuinely like the girl. And she's back to ignoring me and pining for the fuckboy. This is dating in 2019. It's like you have to go for the celibate christian girls if you want a girl who isn't damaged from all of these meaningless interactions.

being worn down by the dating market

This is an excellent way to put it. TRP/guys focus on sex, just because many guys desperately want sex and can't get it. But you're right, maybe what's damaging the women in the dating market are all of the shallow interactions devoid of any emotionally meaningful connections with men. The women have to realize that they're doing damage to themselves, and closing themselves off from the "real men." The men that want an emotional connection, not just a physical one.

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tiposk · 2019-11-06T17:10:10+00:00

I don't think that the modern SMP is any more damaging to women than what we had many decades ago. Cheating and abuse were probably more common in the past due to double standards, female financial dependency on their husbands and society's greater tolerance for these things.

The problem isn't today's dating market, but the damaged people who participate in it. The type of woman who's getting lied to, cheated on and abused by several lovers is the same type of woman who got the same treatment from her husband back in those days. The difference is that now she's more visible because she's more willing to recognize this as some for of abuse and so are the people around her.

People who get constantly shat by their partners learned to practice unhealthy relationship patterns at a young age. Their messy relationships are the consequence of this. Online dating simply attracts this kind of people as those who resort to it due so after everything else failed.

neubiiAUT · 2019-11-06T18:44:46+00:00

From my observations the women who are the damaged ones we often speak about have been worn down by the dating market

Women choose their partners themselves, they are the ones who give men a chance and select men for reproduction, that makes women nature. Nevertheless, it's their choice who they end up with good or bad. It is their fault and theirs alone if they've selected bad partners in their past.

Mar_Ci · 2019-11-06T20:11:18+00:00

Some men play dirty, but women set the rules. Managing expectations would help a lot.

RockSoy · 2019-11-06T20:38:56+00:00

Boo fucking hoo. Hard to feel sympathy for a professional athlete getting injured in a game when most other people can’t even get on the field

theoracleofosiris · 2019-11-06T21:14:53+00:00

People just weren’t evolved to be so spoiled for choice.

Freedom is slavery because choice is a burden because the grass is always greener.

we-are-men-with-ven · 2019-11-07T09:21:59+00:00

I'm probably an outlier 'cause I was a single parent when I was dating..

One OLD fling got a bit weird because he told me he loved me but like, couldn't settle because like, he didn't know where he was going in life (as in, he might need to move out of town at some point). He would literally cry because I was 'such an amazing girl' but he couldn't give me 'what I needed'. It turns out that he just didn't want to be with someone who had a kid, which is totally understandable - duh! But the guy just didn't have the balls to come out and say it so I was always left thinking he liked me and there was just impracticalities in the way. So every time we talked about 'us' I would try to work around these impracticalities. It was complete head fuckery and I hate to admit it but that small fling took about a year to recover from. Anyway, in the end I blocked and deleted him, and made sure that I couldn't 'cave in' and text/call him.

Most the other men were really nice and open about there wants and needs. I had a fuck buddy for about two years which was really cool, met a few guys who wanted to settle and I eventually met my current partner.

What I learned was that you have to be honest to yourself about what you want, don't adjust to what they want, and don't be needy/sycophantic. I think one of the reasons my current partner dotes on me is because I respect myself, and I let that be known. As much as I hate TRP - I think 'I am the prize' is a great mentality and people really will respect you more for it,

Life is one hell of a ride huh, I wouldn't change it for anything though!

decoy88 · 2019-11-08T22:05:34+00:00

I don’t think it damages women at all. It simply gives women more freedom and choice with all the complications that come with getting more freedom and choice

illegallad · 2019-11-09T13:46:42+00:00

Women have the right to select from more men than ever before. Every problem you bring up is the result of them selecting poorly. No, the current SMP is great for women. They just don't think their decisions through.

brackenz · 2019-11-06T17:22:58+00:00

not at all? like everyone spergs about "the wall" but that was a problem before too and back in the day at 30something most women were considered confirmed spinsters and avoided by men while today even 50somethings get on tinder, so in this particular sense they are better than ever before

the single women in my life complain about it the most

observational bias?

Mr_Smoogs · 2019-11-06T18:10:41+00:00

Is it really that big of a problem as y'all make out? Like, yes, dating generally sucks for everyone but I don't believe it's "damaging" women en masse.

The people I see struggling are those with non-existent boundaries who continuously put up with poor treatment because they're lonely or they like the drama or they simply hate themselves. "Being lied to for sex, cheated on, abused of some kind" etc aren't things you can really control but you do always have your agency to get out of any relationship that isn't serving you.

Personally, I feel like I was far more "damaged" from my LTRs than being single lol.

Aaren_Augustine · 2019-11-06T15:51:13+00:00

I don't think it does damage women. Women that are damaged will continue to be so and express themselves in ways that shows they are broken.

Men should learn to identify what that is, how damaged women act in relationships that will directly fuck men over, and how to avoid those types of women. RP is at least the best answer at how to identify those types of women.

This allows men to NOT shoulder the consequences of her poor behaviors

Truedemocracy5 · 2019-11-06T18:49:36+00:00

Women and me both have unique issues in life - modern dating is no different. 80/20 is absolutely true for men, which means many women are chasing after the select few men. What you end up seeing are women “used” for sex. Look at Female Dating Strategy sub - the equivalent of male incels. The difference is they can get sex, just not anything more

This is a common problem for women with dating but it isn’t new. The “can’t get him to commit” trope has been going on for ages, as has the sexless male losers. The inverse of these is rarer, but possible

People that have success with apps (women, top men) have the same issues. Abundance of choice, and I’ve been there. Previously if you met a guy or girl and they were a little odd you’d give them a couple more chances since it may be another 3 months before a good date came along. Now if I want to go on a date with a thin, fit,young college educated woman I can not know her today and have it lined up by tomorrow.

No one is perfect, but pieces of people are close. You meet the girl/guy who looks what you dream of, but isn’t as smart. You meet the smart person, but maybe she’s weird. You meet an interesting person, but they aren’t as attractive. Then you meet the group of all of them and their SMV is higher than yours and you are likely plated. We are exposed to so much that it’s a pursuit of perfection. Comparing yourself to others has never been easier to do

Title	To what extent does the modern SMP damage women?
Author	Mr_Smoogs
Upvotes	38
Comments	240
Date	November 6, 2019 3:07 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/dshk9v/to_what_extent_does_the_modern_smp_damage_women/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/to-what-extent-does-the-modern-smp-damage-women.294235 https://theredarchive.com/post/294235

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