Men - the most important post you'll read on Testosterone. Your levels are being systemically lowered with plastics. Science inside.

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September 7, 2017

Ask yourself - how much of what you consume has been in plastic?

Plastic is the tobacco of the 21st century. Problem is - you can stop smoking. You can't stop using plastic completely.

The first problem is a chemical group called phthlates. They’re used to make plastics soft and flexible, and as you might guess, they’re found in nearly all kinds of flexible plastics ranging from soda bottles to plastic bags. Phthlates are linked to delayed puberty, low testosterone, and feminine characteristics in various human and animal studies.

The second problem is a chemical called Bisphenol A or BPA. It’s also linked to low testosterone, increased estrogen, delayed puberty, and feminine characteristics in various human and animal studies (also explained in more detail below).

The third problem is that a huge list of chemicals used in the manufacturing process of plastic products are labeled as xenoestrogens, meaning that they mimic the effects of exogenous estrogen (female hormone) in the body. This includes the phthlates and BPA that I mentioned above, and also: PCBs, Bisphenol S (BPS), dioxin, vinyl chloride, styrene, phenolix, epoxy resin, PMMA, PTFE, and many many others…

These are in your bottles, in your tubes of toothpaste, in your cheese packaging, in your food containers, in your plastic cups, cutlery and bags.

This Swedish study had 196 boys as subjects. The researchers measured phthlate levels from their mothers when they were still pregnant, and once the kids were 21 months old, their “anogenital distance” – which is a pretty solid fysical measurement of testosterone – was measured, to see if the phthlates had effect on the hormonal health of these 196 subject boys. The results were clear, the more phthlates the mother had in her system during pregnancy, the shorter the anogenital distance in the baby (the shorter the distance the lower the testosterone).

This study compared the men who worked at a chemical plant which manufactures BPA, to men who worked at a tap water factory. The results show that the men who worked in contact with BPA had significantly lower serum testosterone levels, and especially free testosterone levels, when compared to the tap water factory fellows.

In this study, the researches analyzed 18 different samples of bottled water. Eleven of the samples showed significant estrogenic response.

But does this affect your everyday plastic use?

In this study, the researchers tested 445 common plastic products to see if there was any estrogenic activity in them. 70% of the products induced significant estrogenic activity, and the number jumped to 95% when the products were altered to “real life” conditions, such as the microwave heat and putting them to dishwasher. Also note that many of the products in this study were labeled as BPA-free, yet they still induced estrogenic effects similar to BPA plastics.

Why isn't any government actively fighting this? Why would they?

Oh, and if that wasn't enough:

Billions are drinking water contaminated with plastic and US has it the worst, study finds

It's in your water.

Post Information
Title Men - the most important post you'll read on Testosterone. Your levels are being systemically lowered with plastics. Science inside.
Author WolfofAnarchy
Upvotes 504
Comments 367
Date 07 September 2017 04:44 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit TheRedPill
Original Link
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[–]Ferccini0770 points71 points  (11 children) | Copy

Hi, my first post here. This is true, I have a degree in Chemical Engineering and we learned this in faculty (BPA and phtalates). However, we learned not only that it lowers Testosterone, but impaired male reproducibility as well and it was banned when the study showed it. So, I am not really sure if EU countries or US still use it in polymer production. I'm from Croatia, EU. You have to realise there are many types of plastics and polymers. For example, coca cola bottle is PET which is safe to use. PP is also safe, and PS for example is not. Everything is labeled and marked, just read and educate yourself.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

Water is predominantly piped through some sort of PVC piping in the USA. Seems that may be contributing to the problem.

[–]rp6143 points4 points  (6 children) | Copy

I am a senior about to graduate with a degree in chemical engineering. Any advice?

[–]Ferccini079 points10 points  (5 children) | Copy

In Croatia its not easy for young people to find a job in any field except IT. With chemical eng its not so bad but we are very limited if we dont wanna relocate to other countries.If you're American I think you should be fine. My advice is to avoid oil industry, I think it will not last long..I work in a pharmaceutical company and I think this is very nice field to work in..also my job is not really chem eng but chemist. I would also suggest to learn programming in your free time. It could help you a lot as a chem eng but also in general

[–]The_DogeWhisperer0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Also a chem E major here looking to go into pharm. I have the option to switch to a Chemistry major before I take too many more engineering classes- Which major do you think would land me a better job in the industry?

[–]Ferccini072 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

I think engineering is always a better choice. You learn how to think as a problem solver. You have more options in many fields. Chemistry is pure science, too philosophical and too much unnecessery in-depth knowledge. Chem E is industry and business oriented and you get wider knowledge

[–]thegymismysanctuary0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I think the oil industry will be around for a while yet. Even if it doesn't give you a full career, I wouldn't advise against it as it will certainly give you a really good grounding in the fundamentals of engineering work.

[–]Ferccini071 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Youre right about that. Engineering skills required in an oil industry are very valuable. It easy to swith to any other field later

[–]swoletrole0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Wow another Cro red Piller, kaj ima lima?!

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Will distilling water remove all the plastic polymers and phlates?

[–]WISE_TURD89 points90 points  (22 children) | Copy

  • Vitamin D3 deficiency will kill your levels. I raised my total test levels by 100 IU after fixing my vitamin D deficiency (vitamin D levels went from 18 ng/ml to 70 ng/ml). (Insert dick joke here)

Here are some things I've learned: 1. Get enough sleep

  1. lower stress

  2. lift heavy. never do steady state cardio, if you must, no more than a 5k and you better book it.

  3. intermittent fasting

  4. fix any vitamin deficiencies (especially vitamin D)

6.avoid sugar (especially if you want to continue drinking)

  1. cold showers

  2. avoid BPA's (as OP said) - get a stainless steel water bottle and only drink filtered water

  3. increase saturated fat intake

  4. increase omega 3:omega 6 ratio

  5. increase monounsaturated:polyunsaturated fat ratio.

Foods to eat: - Grass fed meats and butter - chia seeds with ceylon cinnamon - pink salt - eggs (nature's multivitamin) - 100% dark chocolate chips and raw almonds as a snack - broccoli and other cruciferous vegetables flush out excess estrogen - full fat greek yogurt - krill oil

Foods to avoid: - anything sweet - anything you didn't prepare - in general, anything that tastes good - alcohol (alcohol is basically sugar)

  • a good way to go is eat 100% clean when you're alone (during the week), then friday night - saturday night do whatever. If you're grabbing drinks during the week, try to eat at home and get a quick lift in prior.

  • Lack of sleep is a killer because it raises cortisol (cortisol levels are inversely related to testosterone).

  • If you're lifting daily and sleeping <6 hours a night, you're probably doing more harm than good. Aim for 9 hours when lifting over an hour a day.

  • I believe soil depletion is partly to blame for our dropping test levels over time, but we ingest so many chemicals that it's nearly impossible to pinpoint. I don't even believe nutrition facts anymore.

Edit: formatting, added foods to avoid

[–]Kinbaku_enthusiast19 points20 points  (9 children) | Copy

Great post.

One amendment: I love tasty food so I adhere mostly to this food list without ever compromising by eating food that isn't tasty.

Couple of ways to make food taste great:

  • quality olive oil (good fats & omega, make sure you have one for heating, one for cold food. There's a reason gordon fucking ramsey pours it on everything)

  • a pinch of salt (A little salt brings out all flavors better. Though anyone that eats processed or fast food generally overeats on salt heavily, when you cut those out you don't have too much of a surplus of salt. Don't use those big grain sea salts, they taste milder meaning you eat more salt.)

  • fresh herbs (mint, parsley, koriander and the like give good soft flavors to foods, are healthy and should be used in amounts similar to other ingredients like vegetables.)

  • Garlic (a tradeoff since there is no way to prevent the sulfur from making you smell out of your mouth and pores. It is however very healthy and a great tastemaker. Raw or cooked both work.)

  • Lemon (fresh lemon juice improves a lot of dishes.)

  • Capsucin (making food spicy with fresh peppers makes it tastier to me. Mileage varies for different people and make sure to not burn your guests)

Of course once you're used to lowered sugar intake, many things start to taste great, even brocolli is sweet.

[–]MacDrezzy 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

Salts a necessary mineral. There's better things to stress about. Pink Himalayan rock salt also has magnesium and potassium which are necessary electrolytes for bodily functions.

[–]Kinbaku_enthusiast0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Sure, but chances are overwhelming that each of us are eating too much salt.

[–]Furious000 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy

A lot of olive oil is fake. It's also not that healthy. Canola oil is better. Coconut oil is best.

[–]Kinbaku_enthusiast1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

I did say quality olive oil. Do your own research to make sure what you're buying is quality. There is a lot of faux quality olive oil on the market.

In what regard do you consider quality olive oil unhealthy?

[–]Furious000 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Omega ratios. Olive oil is 9:1 omega-6 to omega-3. Canola is 2:1. Coconut is 2:7.

[–]S-Blaze1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Canola oil is gmo shit mate.

[–]WolfofAnarchy6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

Awesome post. Can you post a double ENTER after every number? That way it's nice and formatted in a list :)

[–]logicalthinker11 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

You don't believe nutrition facts anymore??? Lololol they aren't the tooth fairy buddy.

[–]RonieGarret0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Could you please suggest good water filter?

[–]WISE_TURD5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Berkey filters are serious. Pricey though.

Carbon filters that have no plastics (glass or stainless steel) involved are a safe bet.

If you must get one with plastic (they are the cheapest option), ensure that it's bpa free. Although i'm guessing there other chemicals that leech from plastic that we don't know about yet, so that's something to consider. Definitely better than nothing in my opinion.

[–]SmellsLikeNostrils0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Look into zerowater.

Good ratings, good taste.

[–]1empatheticapathetic0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Lol I actually do all of these things. Not sure how much of a difference it makes to not doing it.

[–]Rollo_Mayhem30 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

two things that need explaining to me:

what is "steady cardio" and why is it not recommended here? and why do "cold showers" boost T?

Thanks for your response.

[–]MurphyRise0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

why no steady state cardio?

[–]sd4c0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Cortisol sucks. But- If you're really tired, is it better to get an extra hour of sleep (say 7 total), or to lift while drowsy and get only 6?

[–]LazyMagus0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

What do you think about soaking almonds vs just having them dry? Any pros or cons?

[–]red-arctic-tern171 points172 points  (75 children) | Copy

I thought that modern low T is because men do less manly stuff nowadays.

[–]WolfofAnarchy 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

I never said there was only one reason - but I can tell you that sitting all day staring at a monitor is not helping.

[–]enkae731782 points83 points  (27 children) | Copy

Correct. It's easy to blame "the chemicals" in our food, water, whatever, but the real issue is sedentary lifestyle coupled with growing pussiness of men, etc.

So far lifting and eating healthy helps. Cut off ALL fast food that shit is cancer. And keep sugar to a minimum. It's hard to follow the sugar rule because literally everything nowadays has some form of sugar in it whether it be glucose, fructose, galactose, etc.

[–]un-supervised-savage22 points23 points  (15 children) | Copy

I'd like to see a citation to a study that shows sugar has a direct negative causation effect on testosterone. Sugar doesn't have a bad effect on test. It does have a negative impact on insulin sensitivity however if used improperly. Real Sugar isn't always bad. Bodybuilders use sugar to carb up faster along with reduced water intake. This only works if you depleted your glycogen stores sufficiently and train your muscles directly before the "carb up" phase with sugars and other simple carbs.

Go ten days with less than 30g of carbs then after your weightlifting session on day ten pound 400-600g of sugar with limited water. You'll feel bloated that night but the next morning you are ripped.

This happens because when you deplete your glycogen stores your body becomes insulin sensitive. When you workout the body releases insulin to shuttle more glycogen back into the muscle to recover and prepare for the next weightlifting session the muscles have to survive. Insulin can store carbs/sugars in your muscles or your fat cells. Have your carbs after a workout and they will be stored in your muscles depending on how depleted the muscles are of glycogen. Leg day you can have more compared to arm day, bigger muscle group more carbs needed to replenish them. This can also have a second effect of drawing water from your fat cells to your muscles if water intake is limited. Thus making your body fat look thinner and your muscles uptaking all the water giving the muscles a fuller look on top of the fat being less noticeable. This is called carb backloading. There's lots of info on it on the net.

I only do carb backloading to cut but to maintain I go to the carb night carb diet. Carb night diet let's you eat carbs after every workout and if you have to hit a pool party the next day, workout, carb up, reduce water intake and you'll look more lean and muscular at the pool. You can drink water again an hour before you hit the pool, it takes 12-24 hours for the body to restore the water to the fat cells. I can have 9% bf and look like I have 6-7% for a window of time. This is what competitors call peaking for there shows.

[–]1empatheticapathetic8 points9 points  (6 children) | Copy

What's your opinion on keto?

[–]un-supervised-savage4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy

Carb backloading is a form of Keto. Except you have a carb up day once you hit Ketosis. I don't like pure Keto diets because your muscles need carbs(muscle glycogen) to strengthen and grow. Building muscle will increase your metabolism and make staying lean easier. Cardio should only be done to improve cardiovascular health, weight training, especially for men is the fastest way to lose fat.

Weight loss simplified for men!

[–]1empatheticapathetic1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Cheers. I do keto but then every 2 weeks I end up having a carb week due to social and family obligations. So that is probably helping my muscle growth. I need to do more cardio for my breathing though.

[–]electricspresident0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Good advice thanks for the info

[–]tolstushki701-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

Muscle glycogen what? To strengthen and grow? Where do you get all this? Glycogen is a storage form of glucose inside our body. It is a sugar polymer, not a building block. Building muscle increases your RESTING metabolism...Metabolism and Resting metabolism are different things.

Your body will convert excess carbohydrates into fats. When you don't have enough sugar in your blood, glycogen in your liver is broken down to glucose to increase your blood glucose concentration. When all the glycogen is used up, your body uses fats stored in your body to produce energy, so you burn fat. For growth and strength, muscles need building blocks, proteins. Glycogen in muscles is used only for energy to do some type of work.

[–]un-supervised-savage1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

You're missing the whole point. Keto is great for losing weight. This is Keto but with a few optimal windows to consume carbs when they will be stored in your muscles and not as fat. You have to be in full ketosis for it to work. Think about it, what is ketosis? Ketosis is when your body is using fat instead of glucose for energy. There is a short window that you can eat carbs and they won't be stored as fat. Why won't it be stored as fat? Reread the last sentence. Read up on carb backloading, or don't...

Glycogen in the muscle will help you lift more weight to build muscle. If you're training heavy and hard enough you will notice a difference.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy

It depends on the type of sugar. Constant high fructose means steadily lowering SHBG which means less testosterone over time. It's pretty straightforward.

Also 6 to 9% bodyfat isn't healthy naturally. You're probably using those scales that massively under estimate bodyfat, but I'm nitpicking.

(serious) Bodybuilders are on exogenous testosterone more often than not and don't really have to care about too much sugar for a number of reasons.

[–]un-supervised-savage0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

Insulin manipulation can be done with great results on or off of testosterone/steroids. Insulin and test are not the same hormone. Sugar has no effect on your testosterone levels. However eating sugar/simple carbs/aspartame(sweetener in diet drinks) will release insulin and if you eat it all day long your body won't be able to burn fat while insulin is in your blood stream.

Diet is just as critical for a juicer as it is for a natty. On testosterone your body will build more muscle and will require more calories. More muscle makes being lean easier. You can build quit a bit of muscle quickly naturally if you've never seriously lifted before.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (4 children) | Copy

Let's make it simple - what are your credentials and experience on this topic.

[–]un-supervised-savage0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

I've been studying training and different diets for 20 years. I've went from 135 6'2" 12% bf to 230 at the same height and 12.4% bf measured on a bod pod, over 20 years. Put 50lbs on in the first 4 years. I never said I was an expert. I just asked for a citation to a reputable study that shows that sugar lowers testosterone. High Fructose corn syrup Is different and I avoid it at all costs. I don't compete or use steroids but I lift with many that do and have been very successful with those diet tips to continue to make progress while staying lean. 9% body fat is not unhealthy for a male, I maintain 9% for about 5 months over the summer. I said to temporarily look like 6-7%. I have been 6% before for a short period of time and that was with a bod pod measurement not a bs hand held monitor.

I also said that there is lots of info about diets like carb backloading and how insulin affects the body. If consuming sugar three times a week does in fact cause some slight reductions in test levels, they are far outweighed by the anabolic state caused by weight training and spiking your insulin levels with sugar and other simple carbohydrates. If you're unaware that insulin is far more anabolic than testosterone then you have much to learn my friend.

Also state your credentials.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Pharmacist and anabolic user my friend.

I was talking about fructose, not "sugar" which is an extremely broad term. Most people associate "sugar" in diet with some form of fruit, saccharose, HFCS and so on. These WILL be a problem if consumed day/week/year round for a lifetime. Some of what you're saying is right but it's mostly very simple facts based on your own experience. Anecdotes of healthy people mean jack shit in today's society full of low T men. Why are their hormones so bad? They don't train hard, yes. They don't spend time in the sun, okay. They eat a boatload of crap, that's the elephant in the room. That's what's wrecking havoc on the thyroid, the liver, thusly the steroid hormones. Too many physiology books to open on the matter for me to look up and drop a satisfactory study.

I'll bet you a good amount of money that you're not at a single digit body fat on a DXA which is accurate. Bod pods aren't any better than scales. I know this is theredpill not a scientific sub but I'd appreciate if people kept things in context instead of thinking based on their own n=1

[–]un-supervised-savage0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

You mean a DEXA. The one shown to be just as inaccurate as the bod pod. Over 10% off at times.

I know accurately measuring body fat is an extremely difficult task. At 9% I see vascularity in my lower abs and my upper obliques have clearly observable striations. At 12% my abs are still visible at rest. At 14% and up I have to flex to see my abs. The bod pod isn't as far off if you're in there with no clothes on.

Pesticides are also a concern and have effects on test. Organic fruits and veggies are a staple of my diet plus vitamin D3, zinc, magnesium. Sleep hygiene is very important to.

I'd recommend being less petty trying to correct pointless examples in people's posts to discredit them and their ideas, who's post you stated overall was correct. I'm trying to be helpful and contribute helpful information to this thread. The whole use of body fat% wasn't to brag, but to give a measurable example to show the significance of my technique in improving appearance. The technique and diets I speak of may be not be researched thoroughly by scientists but it is valid and works. Ask pro bodybuilders how unimportant their peaking phase for stage prep is. I just follow a simpler and less drastic version of it for myself and it still gives me great results. But at the end of the day I'll quote the Hodge twins with "Do whatever the FUCK you wanna do."

[–]tolstushki7010 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Citation is not needed, I will tell you I switched to a high fat diet, keeping my daily carb intake at 50-80g and I feel great! I have more energy, I am more focused, I don't have food cravings like I used to, acne is gone. I was warned "You need sugar for thinking" that's a total BS, I had finals and did very well on them while I was on this low carb diet. Natural sugar is ok, as long as you don't eat too much. And I lost over 20 lbs.

[–]duruga43 points44 points  (3 children) | Copy

Why can't it be both? It could even be that the chemicals predispose men for this more sedentary style of life, which in turn compounds the problem.

That's just a hypothesis. There could be a lot of interactions going on, but it is extremely suspect that this era of feminization and feminized men has happened at the same time we have started using this chemicals.

[–]edzackly3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

I think you're right. It's a combination of factors. It seems impossible to really test or understand the effects of all that we come in contact with in modern life, especially when complicated by differences in behavior and personal body chemistry, but i think we are experiencing it now. It's a helluva coincidence that all this happens around the same time, right? It's a little silly, but I think of it like the scenario in the Tim Burton Batman, where the Joker poisons the products, and the users die from a combo effect.

[–]Troll_Name3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

"Perfect storm" - what we call it when multiple big storms join forces and teamwork better than people.

Simple advice: eat real food. Take home as little factory packaging as possible.

[–]logicalthinker12 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

There issue with sugar is that people are eating tons of it day after day after day after day... Week after week after week. Year after year. Over and over and over again. Your body is really good at dealing with acute, harmful stuff. Just a fraction of a fraction of harm multiplied by thousands and thousands of days of constant use is what fucks us up.

[–]djthiago11 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

Not true, eat natural and you won't be eating added sugar. They don't add sugar to vegetables, grains and meat.

[–]Endorsed ContributorObio13 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy

There's natural and there's natural though. Plenty of misguided people still think fruit juice is "good for you".

[–]kieran93230 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

the ones made from concentrate I agree, but hard pressed are healthy if you're getting enough fiber

[–]willard_swag0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Precisely the route I'm taking man.

[–]Galbert1235 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

Problem for me as well as many others is that we are coming to this realization far to late in life and too late in our careers.

[–]sd4c0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It's not a problem, it's a pleasure-enhancer. It's never too late. "Better to live one day as a lion, than a hundred years, as a sheep."

[–]Alphadestrious44 points45 points  (12 children) | Copy

To everyone here, get your ass in a gym, train in a martial art and stop masturbating. That's all you can control. All else will follow. Let's get it

[–]Endorsed ContributorMetalgear22211 points12 points  (4 children) | Copy

Agreed, except for stop masturbating. Test levels will peak after a week of not jerking off. Then it starts to plummet.

I guess jerk off every 8 days if you're not having sex lol.

[–]sd4c3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy

Except that masturbation is pointless. Do only that which moves you towards your mission.

[–]Frigzy1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Do only that which moves you towards your mission.

This mentality will make you choke tho.

[–]Shukakun12 points13 points  (4 children) | Copy

Those things, and positive thinking. Not all that mumbo jumbo about visualization and daily self-appreciation mantras, that's definitely overdoing it, but learned helplessness is a real thing, it's good to take a critical look at your yourself and your habitual thoughts.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (3 children) | Copy

Not all that mumbo jumbo about visualization and daily self-appreciation mantras, that's definitely overdoing it

What's wrong with all of those? Why should us men prevent ourselves from using all the tools available in the world to empower ourselves?

[–]Shukakun7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy

If they actually are effective tools, by all means, knock yourself out. The impression I've gotten is that a lot of positivity-related practices are more similar to praying or putting crystals under your pillow.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

The impression I've gotten is that a lot of positivity-related practices are more similar to praying or putting crystals under your pillow.

That's a popular impression, until, at some point in your life, you discover that at least one of those tools work for you. Not sure how old you are, but the beauty of life is many of these tools are uncovered as you go about your business and look at self growth. You mentioned crystals under your pillow - that doesn't work for me. It doesn't mean it can't work for others. These are mostly valid tools that, if one or two of them work great for you, then it would be a self-limiting belief to not use them.

[–]Shukakun0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Things like crystals or prayer can help you, but it's psychological, it's not because the crystals have energy or god exists. Placebo can be a powerful thing for sure, so it's not entirely useless, but I tend to favor methods that are based in reality.

That being said, meditation is that a lot of people consider spiritual nonsense, but I think it has a very real positive effect that can be explained with science. It helps lower your stress and trains your discipline when it comes to not doing things you have an urge to do (in this case, having a constant inner monologue).

[–]Velebit9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

We have no clue what T was before, the tests evolve and the algorithms change constantly, same goes with international IQ testing and penis size measuring, it's all very sketchy and if you are an activist trying to prove a point you will probably be able to make it. I literally tested my T in 3 different labs and each time it ended up significantly different. One lab was using wrong conversion methods making everyone tested have like 10% of normal T.

I read an extremely convincing thesis about shield maidens existing and than another about them not existing. Than I read stats about how literate women in ancient Rome than I read how church actively destroyed female diaries and literature from ancient Rome. It's all incredibly confusing and you can't even comprehend that until you do COMPARATIVE SCIENCE which tries to look at how things come across as you take into consideration time, location and context. For example, average IQ in many places is something that if measured in Europe means functional retardation. However those people don't go bumping heads on walls and stuff.

On the other hand our testosterone receptors are also a factor and they adjust according to testosterone the body handles on average. This is why efficiency of steroid use drops off and you have to make pauses.

On the other hand USA which has the worst exoestrogen effect has the highest birth rate of any western country, compare that to countries you know don't have any significant pollution due to low industry like Poland, Ukraine, Lithuania, Croatia, Greece etc.

[–]vitringur25 points26 points  (24 children) | Copy

Or maybe men do less manly stuff because there is absolutely no reason to anymore.

[–]Shukakun25 points26 points  (19 children) | Copy

There's a great reason to, it's not exactly obvious unless you try it though. Ever met a depressed martial artist? Can you even imagine one? Doing manly stuff makes men happier, because it used to be important, and evolution is slow as fuck and hasn't gotten the memo yet.

[–]Schroef25 points26 points  (8 children) | Copy

You're confusing cause and effect, as so many do on this forum. You're not seeing depressed martial artists because depressed people don't do martial arts, not because martial arts cures depression.

Exercising helps, makes you happier, but it's fighting symptoms, not the cause. Fighting the cause of your depression is the most important thing to do, and from there your symptoms will disappear and you can truly be happy-- exercising, socializing, going after what you want in life.

If you only treat symptoms, you will feel better on the surface, but you'll be largely faking it, and you will have to 'keep frame' for the rest of your life.

[–]1RPAlternate4211 points12 points  (6 children) | Copy

Sometimes the cause is a feeling of uselessness. Physical activity can defeat that feeling so long as the person can tip over that edge where uselessness trumps motivation.

Those things combat the symptoms, but they also combat the causes too.

[–]Schroef3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy

I agree that exercise can combat the cause too-- if you are healthier and look better, for sure it will help you feel a bit more confident and happy.

But this:

Sometimes the cause is a feeling of uselessness.

I think is not true, that is: I think there's always a deeper underlying cause to 'feeling useless', usually a form of low self esteem. And low self esteem is the root cause: feeling other people are better than you, and needing their validation to feel good about yourself.

Even you exercising might be because of the wrong reasons, like wanting validation from your peers or getting attention from (and sleeping with) attractive girls. This can be OK for a while, but if your self esteem underneath all this is still low, it's a very feeble foundation you're building your life on.

[–]1empatheticapathetic0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I have shit low self esteem since forever. Any tips on working past it?

[–]1empatheticapathetic0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Hey thanks for your reply btw. I was waiting to write a proper reply to it but i think you have deleted it. I related to a lot of what you said and made a lot of headway with personal boundaries lately. I've only been made aware of it when I've been pushed and I surprisingly stood solid and noticed any mental preference to want to suit their agenda over any awkwardness that might occur due to a disagreement. Cheers.

[–]Schroef0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah I tend to remove posts after a while if I feel it's somewhat too personal or presumptuous. But happy you read it and could relate to it.

[–]therighttobecool0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Lot of this feeling uselessness is caused by a gynocentric society though. Women are more useless than men yet they constantly talk about how men are useless but what they're saying there are men that won't do shit for them, these men have no obligation to do so and it's a way of thinking that you should know you don't have to do anything for women.

[–]Kinbaku_enthusiast8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy

I`ve known two martial arts teachers that offed themselves. They were probably depressed.

[–]mistagaymer1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Cat Zinganos husband was a BJJ black belt with his own gym, hot famous wife, and kids. He still killed himself. You can do muh manly sheeet and still be blackpilled.

[–]vitringur8 points9 points  (4 children) | Copy

Sure, it might be healthy. That's just not why most people do things.

People didn't do manly things in the past to battle depression and existential crisis.

[–]Shukakun7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

True, you don't need to do manly things, just like you don't need to think about your calories and nutrients. You'll survive just fine eating nothing but McDonalds. Probably a pretty miserable life though.

[–]vitringur11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy

Exactly. There are other reasons and explanations for people's behaviour than it all being some feminist conspiracy or some other external factor.

For example, like you pointed out, life is mostly not about survival anymore.

Which everyone would agree on is a good thing. No matter how manly someone thinks it is or isn't.


Also, there is a fucking world between thinking about calories and just eating fast food. Most people just eat food and are relatively healthy. You don't turn into a fattie boom boom if you stop being obsessed with counting your macros. That's just mild autism.

[–]kieran93230 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

they just called it melancholia, and lying in bed all day wasn't depression, it was called being lazy

[–]vitringur1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yes. We didn't know as much back then.

It is amazing how much the collective human knowledge has progressed over the past centuries.

[–]Lazysaurus6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yes. One of my best friends is a depressed BJJ fighter.

[–]sd4c0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Ever met a depressed martial artist?

Yes. Yes, I have:

In October of 2004 he was arrested for causing a disturbance on an American flight. It was soon revealed he was suffering from depression and other mental health disorders. He was forced to do time in an American time in prison and his inability to speak English or Spanish compounded his mental health issues. He soon developed an addiction to crack cocaine, possibly while still in prison. Terere has battled with his addiction since then. In 2006 he experienced a brief recovery and returned to training but he relapsed several times, the most recent coming in early 2012.

He is now clean again and being treated for his mental health problems. He is teaching again at a new academy in Rio he opened situated right next to the favela he grew up in and is also attempting to return to competition at the 2013 IBJJF European Open.

[–]kieran93230 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

oh, there are ones, I just read about one offing himself, and he was accomplished, square jaw and looks of a model.

[–]superman1272 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Get a job in a skilled trade and you do manly shit everyday.

[–]sd4c0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This, x1000. It's very fucking simple:


Most activity that would improve one's lot in life, was done out-fucking-doors. Hunting, fishing, building a house, farming, patrolling the camp. That is why if you don't go outside enough, you will become depressed.


If you are a student, an employee, father -basically anyone who wants to eat and not be homeless- then you have to be inside. A lot. 99% of the time, having a job means being inside. Inside cars to get to a box to sit still in until it's dark and time to drive back to your other box. Except the weekend. Then you get to either catch up on chores, or go outside.

Your boss, teachers, landlords, money-grubbing girlfriend, and the IRS want you indoors as much as possible. It may appear bright indoors, but in reality it is a fucking cave:

Typical home or office: 150 lux

Outdoors, mid-day, overcast: 1,000-2,000 lux

It's making most of our kids blind, up to 85% in Asia, and no one gives a shit. Because they are cruel assholes. Only cruel assholes would force children to ignore their instinct to be outside, and make them spend most of their life in a big box that takes away sight:

This isn't even taking fresh air into consideration, there is 5-10% less oxygen indoors, unless you're on SCUBA or in a senior's home.

FUCK THESE PEOPLE. Fuck 'em. Refuse to go inside. Use your laptop at the coffee shop. Get a cellular modem and a tablet to work. Learn a trade like heavy equipment, forestry, or roofing. If that's not an option, arrange your reality so that you can be in nature as much as you can.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Or maybe men do less manly stuff because there is absolutely no reason to anymore.

There's a difference between putting a video of a campfire on youtube and actually going to the woods and making fire with your hands.

Edit: That's why I think it's important for us to revisit making a fire and reminding us what we're capable off as men in terms of creating with out hands.

[–]vitringur2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yes. The difference is that most people no longer need to build a fire to keep warm.

In modern times it's solely a hobby.

Edit: Did I get downvoted by a survivalist that takes his hobby way to seriously and expects others to do the same?

[–]xrudeboy420x9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy

[–]therighttobecool-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Destroying anything with your physical strength will probably increase testosterone.

[–]rossiFan1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

That is also a contributer.

[–]UALaxbro1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Just start dipping chewing tobacco and your testosterone will skyrocket. Very easy fix.

[–]dankvibez0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

LOL. You are so fucking dumb if you believe that and don't know anything about science if you think that is true.

[–]Endorsed ContributorJamesSkepp68 points69 points  (5 children) | Copy

As much as I'm all for this post, this is not an excuse to say "i have no gains b/c i drink liquids in plastic".

The impact of "plastic" on T levels might as well be true (or might be not, science will tell sooner or later). So far there's enough evidence (despite rather simplistic conclusions b/c endoctrine system is a bit more complicated than "just measure T levels" as is the chemistry of "plastic" interactions with it) to warrant further research, which is being done.

What is true 100%, without any doubt, is that men have been drinking from plastic bottles for decades and still lifted and achieved great physiques. Do not use this post as an excuse for being a wimp.

[–]Endorsed Contributorvandaalen19 points20 points  (0 children) | Copy

If you suspect you have low T, your first action should be to go and get your bloodwork done.

There is an instructional available on r.testosterone on how to do it properly, since most doctors don't know shit about it:

[–]Rian_Stone5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

I can guarantee my whiskey habit fucks with them more than BPA.

Low hanging fruit

[–]WolfofAnarchy11 points12 points  (2 children) | Copy

The impact of "plastic" on T levels might as well be true (or might be not, science will tell sooner or later)

Science has already said it is.

Do not use this post as an excuse for being a wimp.

100% true.

[–]Rabbit-Punch2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Science hasn't it showed that it reduces T in everyone to a meaningful amount yet.

[–]cazbot0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Science has already said it is.

Scientist here. Science has suggested it is. That is a big difference. Not until the findings have been repeated many times and in many ways can you ever say science has found something truly factual. This isn't there yet.

[–]Kinbaku_enthusiast59 points60 points  (41 children) | Copy

Just in case someone is interested in the background of these things a little more, it`s likely that the lowered fertility that comes off of increased estrogen/xeno-estrogen is by design.

[–]Senior Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil60 points61 points  (17 children) | Copy

Eric Holdren Obama's Chief scientist wrote a batshit crazy book in the 70's called EcoScience. It's about forced sterilization and fucking with the water supply.

[–]Kinbaku_enthusiast13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks, that sounds worth getting into. Appreciated.

As for the discussion with adolf there, I don't pretend to know exactly what motivations of others are, but if I was planning to resculpt the world according to my designs, I would want to be able to target groups for fertility increase/decrease as it meshes with my other plans. So that's what I think is likely.

Considering it now seems to be a goal to replace people in the west with people from other countries (they openly call it replacement migration), that seems to be connected.

Anyways, I just wanted to give a quick aside to politics. It's better here to keep focus on how to protect yourself in regards to reliable water for yourself and those around you. It's something immediate you can do.

[–]nazis_are_socialists6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

It wasn't just about forced sterilization, it was also about forcing women to have abortions.

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

[–]xrorox_rp1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

You may be interested by these guys :

There is some points I don't like (when it sounds too much complotist). But they have an interesting point of view about hown ecologism and eugenism are tied together.

[–]WolfofAnarchy28 points29 points  (4 children) | Copy

The powers that be don't want Test-fueled men with drive for achieving great things. They want obedience, I think.

[–]Senior Contributordr_warlock23 points24 points  (2 children) | Copy

They want obedience, I think.

No, you know

Maybe your plastic consumption is the cause of your lack of conviction?

[–]Kinbaku_enthusiast12 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy

Of course. I am currently learning about the first mandatory school plans drafted by he rockefellers around 1903 and that was exactly the goal: not finding and developing talent, but teaching compliance.

It's easier to do these days with Ritalin (mild cocaine).

The attack on testerone is similar and is traceable to the family council in the 60s (formerly eugenicist society that funded nazi racial research, later rebranded as family council). I have not been able to establish connections between the plan to reduce fertility through tainting the water supply and the high rate of xenoestrogens in US water, but I think it's likely to exist, whether I find evidence or not.

[–]wanderer7797 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy

On one hand it's easy to get mad at these people, sitting around thinking that if only it wasn't for them we'd all be like Thor. On the other hand they kind of had reasons for what they did, beyond making a race of slaves so they could sit in a room somewhere counting money and rubbing their hands together. I mean what is the alternative here - a growing population of high testosterone, aggressive dudes and limited resources? I think we know where that goes.

I believe they have technology now that allows them to alter genes in mosquitoes so that all of the altered mosquitoes' descendants are sterile. Introduce a small number of these into a mosquito population and pretty soon they are extinct. I don't know anything about this field but it wouldn't surprise me if there is a memo floating around somewhere about using this on humans and coupling it with some other sort of controlled artificial breeding method.

Another solution would be developing technology for traveling long distances through space and finding more inhabitable planets but it seems we're pretty far from accomplishing that.

[–]destruct_zero0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Just from a logistical point of view, that thing about the mosquitoes doesn't make sense. If all the descendants of the mosquitoes that have altered genes are sterile, then that inherited sterility stops with their offspring because their offspring can't reproduce. The altered mosquitoes will be dead within a generation and all the other mosquitoes will carry on as normal.

[–]wanderer7791 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

yeah sorry I was wrong, it takes large numbers of them. Google "sterile insect technique".

[–]Sh0cknAwe0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

You're misrepresenting that particular screenshot. It's from a review of literature done by Planned Parenthood. They looked at all available literature regarding family planning, even the crazy ones. There's no evidence that this memo was ever used to create policy.

[–]Kinbaku_enthusiast0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It's not certain. It's very likely. Exactly as I said.

If we find a plan to build a pyramid in the meetings of the most powerful people in the world and wake up with pyramids having been built all over the world, there is not a certain link between the two, but it's likely.

You are free to find it unlikely. In that case I'm sure that just informing people about these things will rapidly change and remove all these xeno-estrogens from our systems. Let me know how that goes.

[–]francisco_DANKonia0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Why the fuck would we want to lower our birth rate? Regardless, they accomplished it with no-fault divorce and child support.

[–]Kinbaku_enthusiast0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Just different ways of accomplishing the same thing.

If I had to guess, it would be valuable to foreign powers if you reduced your birth rate and it would be valuable to other ethnicities, politically in a democracy.

It would be increased division in society and that would mean less united resistance to encroachment on civil liberties and such.

[–]logicalthinker1-1 points0 points  (10 children) | Copy

No. Dumbass. Bringing in stupid conspiracy theories discredits anything else you say on the subject.

[–]Kinbaku_enthusiast0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy

The idea that a mostly anonymous social medium would depend on credit in the first place is stupid. Since it mostly doesn't, discrediting as a concept itself would be meaningless.

I'm not asking you to take what I say at face value. I'm not even asking you for anything at all. You can take or leave the information as you please.

You would rather insult someone than either leave it, or try to figure out why someone believes a piece of information to be valuable. This proves you've got a giant chip on your shoulder about this. That should serve as a reminder of your own bias to yourself.

[–]logicalthinker10 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy

Yeah cuz I was only taking about reddit...It couldn't possibly carry over into your a actual life. Not possible.

Misinformation is a thing. Fake news, outside of the dumb meme it's become, is a thing. These are both tools actively used by people to discredit opponents. It's also just a natural by-product of the collection of people online. If enough people repeat something, it just becomes something believed.

An example of this is MSG. That bad thing you heard about in Chinese food??? Completely harmless. But the horse has already left the barn.

The truth matters.

[–]Kinbaku_enthusiast0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy

It's funny, because my brother used to cook with MSG, until we figured out that each time it would make our grandma sick with it and practically never without it. Since he cooked for her weekly we quickly found that out.

We also used to go to different chinese restaurants, as my grandma is from a partially chinese country and through whether she would get sick or not, we were able to figure out which restaurants used MSG or not, which later consumer reports confirmed, but we already knew.

So great example, it shows how you're not skeptical about some random food blog, but you are skeptical about a random reddit comment.

I understand though that this is no evidence for people who weren't my family and were able to witness themselves. For them I say: look at your source and how it does not support in any case with evidence that MSG is safe.

In any case, your radar for finding truth is flawed and your aggression towards someone that shares a piece of information is misplaced, futile and probably supporting the exact thing you're trying to fight.

[–]logicalthinker10 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

Lol 538 is not a food blog. It's a data driven journalism site. The article links like 10 studies that back me up. The article walks through the progression of how the rumor was started (all sourced).

But tell me again about your anecdote.

By your logic, if my anecdote was that I never got sick from it, our stories would be equally valid right? If only there was a way to systematically study lots of people and test the hypothesis...

The irony is so fucking thick here I could cut it with a knife. Your story about your grandmother is the exact thing that started the rumor and led to a false conclusion.

[–]Kinbaku_enthusiast0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

Your personal investment in this is simultaneously funny and a little tiresome.

Some of the links don't even go anywhere. I doubt you read even one of the linked studies, so I don't expect you to read this one either, this is just for anyone that googles MSG and might accidentally try to figure out if some truth can be distilled from this discussion.

Because it seems to me you and they are focusing on supposed people making mistakes to derail from the simple question whether MSG is unhealthy or not.

Here's a study that found that the attacks on information that indicates MSG as potentially dangerous came from groups funded by big business and that there is far from consensus about whether MSG is safe or not.

For me it's easy to know, since I had the placebo-free effect with my grandmother, as she did not know when my brother did or didn't use MSG.

Finally one test that might blow your own cognitive dissonance, though, if you still have a mind worth saving: Which study did they cite that proves that MSG is fully safe?

[–]logicalthinker10 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

So? The truth matters. You're responding just the same. Sounds like you're invested as well.

The reason I cited this is because I love reading 538 and remembered first reading it.

Your study doesn't say that msg is bad. Its conclusions are weak: there's not consensus and we're not sure. So at best (and I mean best care scenario for you), is we don't know. That's not what you're arguing. So if it is indeed bad for people and makes them sick, it should be easy to find plenty of studies that support that. Just like there are plenty of studies that show people with celiac's disease do get sick from gluten. So go ahead. Find them.

Every study in this article And this shows me you don't understand the scientific method, the underlying logic, and what certain results say. You can't say something is definitely perfectly healthy. All you can say is that no ill-effects have been discovered or that it didn't bring about a specific symptom.

You're wrong. You've been proven wrong. It's OK to be wrong. It's not OK to ignore facts because they'll hurt your pride and prove you wrong.

[–]Kinbaku_enthusiast-1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy

Lol, you couldn't even answer the question.

[–]logicalthinker10 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

You're literally too dumb to understand how dumb you are. And not worth my time anymore. Either you're a troll or you're actually lacking in the mental capacity to understand my argument. Either way, goodbye.

[–]Dat_Chad10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy

thank God I'm on Tren Replacement Therapy then

[–]Kvuthe 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

Great post. Opened my eyes. What do you recommend, though, as an alternative? From what I know there are no "wooden containers" and even if there are, I would say 85% of the products are in a plastic container and the 15% probably came in contact with plastic before coming to store.

Again, thank you, great research.

[–]WolfofAnarchy38 points39 points  (17 children) | Copy


Glass can be heated, glass can be washed in the diswasher (both of these things release shitton of the bad stuff in plastics), glass can be 100% recycled, and glass feels a lot better.

[–]perplexedm19 points20 points  (1 child) | Copy

+1 for glass, and am already practicing this at my home for last 3-4 years. What ever plastics that can be replaced is replaced either with glass or metal.

And I don't understand why all the anti pollution, anti waste, recycling, environment protection folks are not focusing on glass.

And we should use cotton clothes more...

[–]duruga14 points15 points  (0 children) | Copy

Ceramic also. Use ceramic plates and bowls instead of plastic.

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor10 points11 points  (7 children) | Copy

Legal Cohabiting Female threw away all the plastic wear in our kitchen one day. Came home and it was all in the trash. It's just glass, steal and stoneware now. It took her almost a month to find suitable water bottles to carry out and about.

I found it odd because she regularly tells me how scary and aggressive I can be, you'd think she would have done the opposite.

(No bloopers, I've never hit her and I don't yell at her.)

[–]AwakenedSovereign6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy

Did you find her at CostCo or WholeFoods?

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

In uniform carrying an M-16.

[–]Mescuzzi0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

It took her almost a month to find suitable water bottles to carry out and about

What brand of water bottle? I have a Nalgene 32 oz plastic water bottle I refill multiple times a day. Looking to make the switch to metal after this post

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

But here's the problem. They got bought so and it seems they are pushing a ton of other shit now, so I dunno. The bottles she bought seem to be all steel with some sort of rubber fixture for grip, but it's steel on steel wherever you have water and contact.

For the record, she is also freaked out about aluminum and copper. I've explained to her in detail how the latter actually catalyses impurities and whatnot, and she totally understands it and follows along. She still doesn't like it. heh. Women are fucking awesome.

(Yes, bloops, I'm mean that.)

[–]Mescuzzi0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Women are fucking awesome.

If I may, GOOD Women are fucking awesome :)

Thanks for the link, most appreciated brotha

[–]mephju5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy

Most dishwashers have some kind of plastic inside of them as well. At least here in Switzerland/Germany.

[–]WolfofAnarchy4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

True. It's a big fucking conspiracy.

But, you should know that food you ingest has the potential of fuckign with your hormones a lot more than something that might've stayed on your dishes.

[–]Kvuthe 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy


Well, there is still the issue that all the products are in a plastic package. I'll keep the information in mind though.

[–]WolfofAnarchy2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

That is true. But if you buy your veggies whole (which is healthier, cheaper and fresher) and don't use plastic bottles, you can easily halve your intake from these things.

[–]dankvibez0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah, I use glass all the time when drinking water. Also I use real dishes, instead of paper plates.

[–]blr1998 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

I drink everything out of a Yeti

[–]rossiFan0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Same. Office Yeti and home Yeti and truck Yeti.

[–]MarcoCorona9 points10 points  (3 children) | Copy

I'd like to point out that many shower gels and shampoos these days have a slew of additives that fuck with the body's chemistry. Many contain that has an estrogenic effect.

"Old school" lye soap is made from animal or vegetable fat, cleans better, leaves no residue or film and can be used for the whole body and hair.

If you want to cut exposure to these additives, go for unscented superfattened (7% to 10%) olive oil soap made from human consumption grade quality.

Why unscented? Because most essential oils are mutagenic in nature and scented soaps thus are a no-no; no matter how little scent was added.

[–]spew_venom 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

Could you please provide a source on mutagenic activity of essential oil additives to soap?

[–]MarcoCorona0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

All high quality essential oils that have gone through my hands were marked as

Essential oils are basically concentrates of the scents a given plant provides. See for reference.

[–]Shukakun22 points23 points  (12 children) | Copy

I'm no scientist, but I'm pretty sure this is a disappearingly small contributor to low testosterone, compared to the fact that we barely fight, risk our lives or even move these days.

[–]logicalthinker14 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

Absolutely right. It's a negligent impact. All conspiracy theories are based on a grain of truth. Fluoride is toxic to people...but not at really low concentrations. It's actually great for your teeth at low concentrations and won't do anything to your body. Similarly, lead is in basically everything at some almost imperceptible concentration. But not approaching anything even close to what would be considered worrisome let alone dangerous.

This thread is filled with Alex Jones nut jobs who don't understand toxicity levels.

[–]afkb39sdfb2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

The FEMA camps and chemtrails man!

[–]WolfofAnarchy-5 points-4 points  (9 children) | Copy

It's pretty sure you're no scientist, indeed.

[–]Shukakun11 points12 points  (8 children) | Copy

Are you saying it's the other way around, then? They're intentionally turning our frogs gay? I should get off the grid while I still can? Before they put a chip in me? #Illuminati?

Not saying the chemicals we absorb on a daily basis don't matter whatsoever, but it's healthier to think "I'm sad and lethargic because of my lifestyle, I should change" than "I'm sad and lethargic because everything is a conspiracy and they're poisoning our food and water".

[–]WolfofAnarchy2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy

No, but I sourced every single claim, and you didn't source yours. Meanwhile Testosterone has dropped in men in the last 40 years, sperm count has literally halved, and plastics have increased by a shitton.

[–]Shukakun13 points14 points  (6 children) | Copy

Your claim that plastics reduce our testosterone is reasonable. Your conclusion that this is somehow a major factor and extremely important however, is just not. Whether or not you lift affects testosterone much more than plastic does. Whether or not you masturbate a lot affects testosterone much more than plastic does. Whether or not you're setting goals in your life and pursuing them affects testosterone much more than plastic does.

But for anyone reading this, rest assured, chemicals in your food and water aren't the reason you're a loser. The Jews aren't the reason you're a loser. Earth being flat and the moon landing being fake isn't the reason you're a loser. Your attitude and your choices in life is the reason. So fix it.

[–]WolfofAnarchy2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy

NoFap is indeed another great way of getting more Testosterone.

[–]Shukakun4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy

To a certain threshold, at least. It's not like going three years without cumming is going to turn you into a chiseled man-god. The important thing is that doing it too often, habitually, will absolutely fuck you up and leave you a husk of a man with zero motivation.

I think the "You are not allowed to make yourself cum, only women are" is a reasonable approach though. Lights a fire under your ass and makes sure you actually make progress. Fucking a girl four times a day for three days straight does leave you lethargic and is probably overdoing it, but it sure beats watching porn and jerking off four times a day for three days.

[–]WolfofAnarchy5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy

Sex raises testosterone (although probably not infinitely), so that's indeed a MUCH more healthy approach to life.

"You are not allowed to make yourself cum, only women are

Since I applied this, it has been a hell of a ride

[–]Shukakun0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

I'm curious, how long has your longest dry spell been since then, and how long would you say they are on average? I haven't mustered up the willpower to completely refrain from masturbation yet, but I definitely want to.

[–]WolfofAnarchy1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I recently relapsed in the last days. Don't feel much of a difference. I still do it. My longest has been 50 days with some peeks at porn but no orgasms. Didn't feel a big difference after the initial 2 weeks.

[–]cazzah12313 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy

Trt for life fuck it. Add tren your gold

[–]Shaman66246 points7 points  (4 children) | Copy

I was wondering if you could maybe ingest something to help your body get rid of BPA's and this is what I found:

[–]WolfofAnarchy4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

Holy shit that's great, thank you!

[–]ShotgunTRP0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Ironically the drink Yakult that contains these cultures is sold in plastic drink bottles.

[–]gradchad 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

So what's the solution here? I mean if the water's fucked, besides switching to glass/steel containers, there isn't much we can do at an individual level, is there?

[–]WolfofAnarchy4 points5 points  (8 children) | Copy

Lower exposure to plastics, maximize exposure to good healthy food .

[–]jayshea0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

But how do you find a good source for water? I'm not a fan of straight out of the sink, but I'm not trying to rely on bottled water solely it's a lose-lose situation

[–]Kinbaku_enthusiast0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

You can set aside a little money per year for water filters. That way you can drink from the tap at home, fill glass bottles to take to the gym and possibly to work, that way you can improve 90% of the water you drink, vastly reducing low quality sources of water.

[–]jayshea0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Do you have any good filters you know of that removes fluoride as well?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Berkey. About $300 for a 3-gallon tank that filters in an hour. Fill it every couple of nights and you should always have enough water for drinking, cooking, and cleaning.

They also sell a shower head, but I don't know about it's quality. The filter tanks are pretty well-regarded though.

[–]Short-changedChad0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I've been down this rabbit hole but not as far as you. Before I go and get my non reactive metal tin hat and autist helmet on- how much is holding plastic things like a phone case or steering wheel and heating them with your body heat releasing bad shit into your blood through your permeable skin membrane?

I've also noticed that the insides of microwaves are plastic. So even heating things up in glass is compromised.

[–]WolfofAnarchy0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Before I go and get my non reactive metal tin hat and autist helmet on- how much is holding plastic things like a phone case or steering wheel and heating them with your body heat releasing bad shit into your blood through your permeable skin membrane?

Don't worry about it. Ingesting is the big one.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Also iodine... they took it out. Start supplementing with it

[–]arthurabyssal16 points17 points  (7 children) | Copy

Glass bottled water is getting harder to find these days. Tapwater in the UK is recycled and I am sure it is lacking in electrolytes and minerals. And Bottled water comes in plastic. Anabolicmen, 'The 4 Hour Body' by Tim Ferris, Bulletproof and Dr Berg and Thomas Delauer on YouTube are all great resources to increase testosterone. Main things I've learnt are: DON'T: No plastics; less synthetic clothing (especially underwear), don't put your cellphone near your balls, don't snack throughout the day, don't eat or interact with mint, lavender and tea-tree, don't wear most deodorants (find a natural one like 'Salt of The Earth', I sweat a lot and it works better than most deodorants), don't walk around cars too much, don't have soy, liquorice or flaxseed. Dont have sugar, limit dairy to butter. I still have Kefir a few times a week though because the benefits outweigh the costs. Don't smoke and don't smoke pot it has T-lowering effects. Do: Sprint, weights, walk with good posture, argue and debate more (eg: in university or school) well-sourced red meat, well-sourced eggs (the yolks should be almost orange-red and shells should be darker), cod liver oil, green vegetables like spinach to bind to and remove estrogens, almonds (around 20 for vitamin E), 3-6 Brazil nuts a day (works better than a selenium supplement), sleep 8-10 hours a night (keep room cool, no phones or screens before bed), mushrooms, pink salt for more minerals, grass-fed butter from a local farm or from Kerrygold (found at most shops), garlic, onion, intermittent fasting, activated charcoal, Vitamin D3 supplement even if you live in a Sunny area or country you are most likely deficient. D is not a vitamin but a steroid hormone. Take cold showers. And the best way to increase testosterone: Watch 300 or 300 Rise of An Empire ;)

Also a better way to lose weight and detoxify is to straight up fast as oppossed to eating low calorie everyday. The effects are phenomenal and your testosterine only dips a bit, but shoots way above baseline when you refeed. You also keep more muscle (if not all) from fasting because of Human Growth Hormone (but don't take branched-chain-amino-acids because they dispute HGH). Low calorie diets still trigger insulin (unless you are on keto) which allows your HGH to drop and your muscles to be used for energy instead of fat. Which is why people who lose a lot of weight also end up looking weak.

[–]therighttobecool10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy

Reduce alcohol consumption

I'd also expect men that live away from women and a feminized society to have higher T.

Men that live out in the woods in a cabin, men in prison etc. are some examples of men that will have higher T.

[–]faissaloo1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

As someone with eczema, I can testify to the fact that UK water is absolute trash.

[–]TheGillos1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Everything you say is spot on.

I just finished a short 64 hour fast. Also keto for life!

I'll be paying attention to the plastic shit, coincidentally my brother mentioned the micro plastic particles in the drinking water yesterday.

[–]faensatan 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

First time I heard anyone say to stay away from tea-tree. Care to elaborate? I use tea tree oil a lot for my dry skin scalp and acne on my shoulders.

[–]arthurabyssal0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

"Lavender and tea tree oil caused gynecomastia (man boobs) in adolescent boys, which reversed when the boys stopped using topical products containing lavender and tea tree oil, but no significant estrogen changes were observed in studies with larger sample sizes.[29][30]" - Bulletproof

[–]LOST_TALE1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy



not: this is the day we die *

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Synthetic underwear and clothes (polyester) does this lower T? I'm wearing exofficios right now

[–]turkeybaconman96694 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

I work in a plastic factory touching plastic caps all day? Do you think touching so much plastic so often will have effects.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

depends on what type of plastic the caps are. PP or PE caps are inherently safe and non-toxic

[–]turkeybaconman96690 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks. I don't know what kind they are but I'll be sure to find out.

[–]therighttobecool12 points13 points  (1 child) | Copy

Lot of xenoestrogens, pthalates is also found in your detergent, fabric softener, bathroom soap, shampoo don't think you're escaping from all that just from plastics.

Men T is dropping but not just from these products. It's a combination of different things. Patriarchy and feminism is another reason why male T is dropping. Patriarchy makes it so women becomes some kind of holy being we're not allowed to touch unless we consent towards it and Feminism supports that further. That lowers T. We sleep a lot less in this generation which also puts a big strike on T and our quality of sleep is worst since we have so much lights on around our modern light preventing us from a deep REM sleep. We don't fast as much as people back then. Eating wasn't some kind of hobby for people back then, they ate to refuel that was it. High sugar products like sucrose jacked foods/drinks and high fructose syrup are other reasons. Today's patriarchy and feminism also set our minds to be much different from men back then. Ancient men when they saw a woman they liked they just snatched her up, we are socially engineered to not do that which lowers our T further.

[–]WolfofAnarchy9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yup, it's a combo. But you have to find the causes to find the fixes. This is one cause. There are many more. Tackle them.

[–]Shaman66246 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

And what about dental filling?

[–]motherf__kinSTARBOY7 points8 points  (19 children) | Copy

OMG something I can contribute to!

I actually took part in world leading research to see if people can reduce their exposure to BPA. This involved a week long diet in which we reduced our exposure to plastics containing BPA as much as possible.

The study concluded that people could not reduce their exposure to BPA by altering their diet. Thus, it is up to the government to put in place regulations to reduce the use of BPA in our daily lives.

[–]WolfofAnarchy2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy

Do you think a reason is that BPA stays in the body for a longer time than a week?

[–]motherf__kinSTARBOY2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy

No. In an smaller controlled group, participants were able to reduce BPA by 60% in just 3 days. This included a prescribed diet.

However, our study was designed to see if it is realistic for normal people to effectively reduce their BPA levels. We were simply given some guidelines thus it was a "real world" diet. When you consider the ubiquitous presence of BPA in our food chain and the poor labelling of foods, its not surprising we werent able to reduce our BPA levels.

[–]WolfofAnarchy1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

gotcha, thanks. Could you explain to me how the special diet differed?

[–]motherf__kinSTARBOY0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

For the smaller control group? It was a prescribed diet. Meaning they knew for certain it did not contain BPA.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

So the conclusion was that people with limited will-power and/or knowledge about BPA sources aren't likely to reduce their exposure to BPA sources?

Isn't that kind of a pointless study? Obviously you need to become slightly abnormal and put effort into diet control if you want to protect your health.

[–]motherf__kinSTARBOY0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

This isnt about lack of will power/knowledge.

I was one of the people who took part in the diet. I avoided all visible plastics. No food with plastic packaging. No plastic bottles. Checking all labels. No fast foods. Eating organic. Etc.

Yet it was all in vain.

You are severely underestimating how abundant BPA is.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Then what was in the diet of the small group of people who reduced their BPA levels by 60% in 3 days? You made it sound like the larger study followed a "realistic" diet which I assumed would include shitty SAD foods.

[–]motherf__kinSTARBOY0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

They were in a lab environment and they knew exactly what they were consuming. Its just not economically viable to replicate that in the real world. Gonna go hire your own personal lab and scientist to watch your diet? Lmao

Sorry for being unclear.

[–]gradchad 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

So there isn't really a solution to be effectuated at an individual level?

[–]motherf__kinSTARBOY1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Yeah. That was the conclusion of our study.

[–]gradchad 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

Goddamn...what about lifting? Will it offset the negative effects caused by water?

[–]motherf__kinSTARBOY0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The study didnt look into that but I would assume to atleast some extent.

[–]Kinbaku_enthusiast1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy

What sources of BPA were unavoidable?

[–]motherf__kinSTARBOY0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

The participants, including me, avoided as many sources of BPA as we could identify but it still wasnt enough. It is unclear why this is the case. Maybe lack of labelling due to lack of regulation? Use of BPA contaminated equipment during the manufacturing process?

[–]Kinbaku_enthusiast1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

It's very interesting.

What country was this in?

How would you describe your sources of water?

[–]motherf__kinSTARBOY0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Yh I was very lucky to take part.

It was in the UK. The University of Cambridge is getting in on it too. So expect some government action in the future. I dont know why OP went full conspiracy mode at the end haha.

Just tap water. Kept in non plastic containers.

[–]Kinbaku_enthusiast0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

What was full conspiracy mode in your head?

[–]motherf__kinSTARBOY0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

"Why isnt any government fighting this? Why would they?"

what OP said near the end of his post

[–]Kinbaku_enthusiast0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

BTW do you have a link to the study you took part in?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Plastic engineer checking in here. Lets talk.

First, BPA is a pre-cursor chemical to only one type of plastic: polycarbonate (PC). PC is clear and tough. Nalgene bottles, safety glasses, basically anything that you want tough and clear and plastic is probably PC. Modern processes to their best to 'scrub' the BPA out of PC when they produce it, but there is trace amounts leftover. Best bet it to avoid PC bottles.

Second, phtalates. These are used almost exclusively in PVC. Their purpose is to make PVC more flexible. We get exposure to PVC in our shower curtains, pool liners, and more recently in water pipes. A lot of water pipes are now bing converted to PVC in homes (from copper). Their may be some phalate 'leaks' in PVC pipes. Copper is still a good option, as it PEX. Some food packaging films are also PVC.

So what plastic is safe? A lot really. The FDA had guidelines on what is food safe and what is not. BPA is not food safe, but there is a lower threshhold that we cannot test for on a routine basis. If you are super paranoid - just avoid it. Phalates are more pervasive and a lot are food contact approved. So that leaves PP, PE, PET, PS, etc etc....

I don't really believe that plastic is evil (I'm biased) - I believe the T crisis it has more to do with food and lifestyle choices.

AMA about plastics.

[–]Drumcode-Equals-Life2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

Environmental Engineer here, if you're serious about your water quality and plastic contaminants such as those mentioned in the post (which is very well-researched I might add), I would very much recommend buying a whole-home reverse osmosis (RO) filtration system. It has the capability to remove 99% of most molecular contaminants in the water supply.

[–]random4808 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

Isn't whole home RO a big waste? You really only need it for water that you're actively ingesting (i.e. drinking or cooking with). It seems like a really big waste to be using that water for taking a shower or washing your hands.

[–]Drumcode-Equals-Life0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

In a sense, you end up wasting somewhere between 40 to 60% of the feed water to the system. In the grand scheme of things for a large municipality, that's not even a fraction of a drop in the bucket.

If you wanted to be more environmentally friendly, you could purchase a smaller unit solely for your kitchen sink and limit the waste. However, but you risk exposure to contaminants that can absorb through the skin (such as lead, mercury, and arsenic) via the shower or bathroom sink when you wash your body or hands in this scenario.

Think about it this way, anybody in the greater Flint region affected by the lead outbreak with a whole-home RO system had access to clean drinking water where all of their neighbors did not, because RO acts as an ultimate barrier to heavy metals such as lead.

[–]sporkhoarder2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Soooo - how do I defend myself against this moving forward? I can't just ignore plastic, it's everywhere.

[–]Trainmasta2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

Governments won't fight this, they are actively promoting population reductions and this fits into the overall plan. "They are turning the freakin frogs gay!" Is not just a meme, it's actually a thing

[–]dankvibez0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It's funny because a lot of people call liberal's pussies for wanting to test drinking water more frequently, and hold companies more accountable for disposing toxic wastes properly. Maybe the people who don't want to do that are the actual pussies, they are addicted to dat estrogen mimicker.

IMO, if you are willing to sacrifice the quality of air/water so some company can improve their bottom line, you are a fucking faggot. The government actually will do things to improve water if people make it an issue, the problem is people are too considered about dumb things like trans-bathrooms for this to make it into the spotlight.

[–]dankvibez0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It's funny because a lot of people call liberal's pussies for wanting to test drinking water more frequently, and hold companies more accountable for disposing toxic wastes properly. Maybe the people who don't want to do that are the actual pussies, they are addicted to dat estrogen mimicker.

IMO, if you are willing to sacrifice the quality of air/water so some company can improve their bottom line, you are a fucking faggot. The government actually will do things to improve water if people make it an issue, the problem is people are too considered about dumb things like trans-bathrooms for this to make it into the spotlight.

[–]borntobeanincel5 points6 points  (6 children) | Copy

are beta males beta because of low testosterone? if yes then if someone is beta isn't this because this is just how they were created?

[–]WolfofAnarchy6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

In animals, the betas are the ones that are below alphas but can replace him at any time when he dies.

IRL, any beta can become alpha, it just takes a lot of work on some and people should do it on their own. Don't try to convert a friend, or something.

[–]wst46 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

Maybe it's the plastic dildos they use on themselves.?

[–]therighttobecool2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

The term beta has become the term for "loser" but a beta in reality is more like 2nd to alpha, alpha in training, potential to be an alpha or to overthrow the alpha. There are worst males like gamma males or something I heard.

[–]Endorsed Contributorvandaalen2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

if someone is beta isn't this because this is just how they were created?

Yep. And because of this simple truth, we should also let diabetics die, since it's they way they were created...

[–]1TrenGod370 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Nope I know guys who do roids and their test is over 1500 and they still are beta as fuck. It helps but it doesn't solve the problem

[–]Hillarysdilddo_20160 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Or someone grew up beta because they were chemically castrated since the womb.

[–]2kez8811 points12 points  (16 children) | Copy

Meh I don't know how much I believe this is actually an issue. Whilst it may be true these things occur, how much does it affect testosterone and it's production?

Everything 'affects' something, but until you can say it will decrease your test by 5% or 10% or whatever the number is, i'm not going to worry. If dudes on here are worried, get your test levels checked and see how you go. If its low, consider some options.

To try cut EVERYTHING plastic out is incredibly hard and may not even be worth it.

[–]WolfofAnarchy16 points17 points  (15 children) | Copy

Sperm counts in men have halved in the last 40 years.

[–]HardworkITrust2 points3 points  (11 children) | Copy

Excessive masturbation to internet porn has doubled in the last 40 years. That's why sperm count is so low. You blow your load twice everyday not allowing your sperm to mature which in return makes you produce more sperm that isn't mature to replace those that have been shot out. This cycle leads to a drastic lowering of sperm. Not because of my plastic shaker cup. Don't ejaculate for 30 days and get a sperm test done and you'll be surprised with your sperm/ml number.

[–]josiasx9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

Try reading the dudes article.

"After accounting for factors including age and how long men had gone without ejaculation, the team found that sperm concentration fell from 99 million per ml in 1973 to 47.1 million per ml in 2011 – a decline of 52.4% – among western men unaware of their fertility. "

"The team split the data based on whether the men were from western countries – including Australia and New Zealand as well as countries in North America and Europe – or from elsewhere.....By contrast, no such trends were seen for men in other countries – although the authors caution that far fewer studies have been carried out among such populations."

So this low sperm count, has nothing to do with fapping. And is only in western countries.


"Numerous possibilities have been mooted, with research suggesting links to body weight, a lack of physical activity, smoking, and exposure of pregnant women to chemicals found in myriad household products, known as endocrine disruptors."

But I'll tell you, their is a cure for low testosterone. The sent of a women, can raise your T levels. Especially an ovulating women.

So get out their, flirt and have fun.

[–]WolfofAnarchy8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy

Is there science for yours? Because there's science for mine.

[–]AngriestBeaver1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Do you have a degree of any sort. I'm all for eating healthy, lifting, and avoiding environmental hazards. I filter all my water, and there's tons of historic examples large corporations poisoning the water, air, etc. I'm not saying there is no merit to your post, but I question your ability to fully evaluate and critique these studies. You seem to correlate low sperm in the gen pop to the use of these plastics. The science is sound that high exposure to BPA is a risk and, but when you take it to the point of government conspiracy and politicize it you lose a lot of credibility. You're getting awfully close to infowars territory here. I don't trust the government to keep the air or water clean, but that's more due to a gutted EPA in the pocket of Monsanto and the like, led by the inept Scott Pruitt. What I'm getting at, is I think your overstating the dangers and it comes off politically charged after reading through this comment section; and rather than an honest scientific meta analysis you claim it to be.

[–]therighttobecool1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

I forgot this one as well. Ejaculation lowers Test. Excessive ejaculation in a period of a day to exhaustion from a study has shown that it can increase estrogen effects on your body. It's okay to shoot one off as your T will drop but it will bounce back so it's only a temporary loss but don't get addicted to it. Not ejaculation for a week on the other hand can boost Test

The way porn is easier to access then several decades ago is increasing this loss in T as well.

[–]Endorsed Contributorvandaalen-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

Excessive ejaculation in a period of a day to exhaustion from a study has shown that it can increase estrogen effects on your body


Not ejaculation for a week on the other hand can boost Test

Can, may, should, would... Hätte, hätte, Fahrradkette.

The way porn is easier to access then several decades ago is increasing this loss in T as well.

Bullshit. Already beat my meat several times aday to porn in the 80s. Others before me used catalogues, pin up card decks, etc.pp.

[–]Rian_Stone1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

nofap is really getting clever with the bait n switch posts

[–]Endorsed Contributorvandaalen-4 points-3 points  (2 children) | Copy

An inevitable pathetic NoFap retard appears. NoFap retard uses bro-science. It's not very effective.

[–]HardworkITrust0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Let me guess you wank it several times a day? I'm too busy approaching real women and having my releases with fwb. But keep telling yourself masturbation is healthy, while you masturbate I'll fuck a real girl ;)

[–]2kez880 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

that doesn't mean the cause is plastic

[–]WolfofAnarchy0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It's been a theory by scientists investigating the matter. I think we'll see the connection in science within a couple of years.

[–]1walkingthelinux4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Truth becomes lies when it's sole use is to get more democrats elected.

[–]vsamael 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

Can't drink tap water can't drink bottled water? WTF is left then? And what about HDPE and PP5?

[–]WolfofAnarchy1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

You can drink bottled water, just not 2L out of plastic bottles that are meant to be disposed of (marked with a 1). 3 and 7 are also bad.

[–]MindTheFuture3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy

Tap water can be filtered. Check out the ones that use reverse osmosis -method as part of the filtering process. There are some available that fit under the sink. Just know that filtering take time, so water will come out at low pressure and filling a kettle takes longer. Still, enough for home cooking and drinking.

[–]Hillarysdilddo_20160 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Problem is, all RO systems are constructed from plastic: the tubing, the tank, and the membrane. I'd be concerned that you would end up with higher xenoestrogens because now on the filter side you have pure water, and it will leech xenoestrogens faster to restore osmotic balance. However you would get rid of a myriad of upstream contaminates like lead and pharmaceuticals, so maybe the net benefit is still positive. I don't know.

[–]MindTheFuture1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Good concerns. So, there might be market for RO-systems/mods where the filtered side would be procecced through glass/ceramics/metals. Were someone knowledgeable on the market and engineering minded, this might be worth of looking into as nieche product.

[–]Hillarysdilddo_20160 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This is exactly what I searched for. Not sure the demand but I know I wanted it.

[–]menial_optimist1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Looks like glass bottles are still the best to use.

[–]5pecial 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

My testosterone went from 212 ng/dl to 440 ng/dl to 650 ng/dl over the course of 6 months just by getting more sleep, eating better, and exercising. It was still lowish for my age, but at least it put me in the acceptable range.

[–]Hoops_Junkie22 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Jesus 212? Very close to a woman at that point.

[–]berryfarmer1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

My T levels skyrocketed after removing animal products from my diet.

The biased response on this sub is you can't be a man without meat. Good luck with that.

[–]Pooddit 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

I was just reading about this in anabolic men. I even just bought a steel water bottle off amazon. I had worries about the content of my tap water, particularly chlorine, and it's connection to health problems. It did have a significant effect on my sleep quality when I began filtering the water with one of those basic filters but I am considering the reverse osmosis triple filter systems that are like 200 bucks. I started taking ZMA (zinc, magnesium, and b6) and have noticed changes. Same with Vit D. I have noticed changes in high intensity exercise like strength training and HIIT sprints.

I live less than a mile from one of the largest chemical companies in the united states that produces the plastics that make up just about every container we use. I often wonder what effects the fumes have on people. The operators in the plants all seem so... passive, some fat. Feminine. I went to school some of these guys 10 years ago and they were not like that then. This may have to do with being in a cushy job where they sit and look at computers all day. There is no drive to overcome anything. They also work shift work which is so bad for your health.

There used to be a store here at the chemical plant where they sold plastic products and my mother worked in the store. She was pregnant with my while she worked, I wonder if this had an effect. I have some gyno. My dad does not. My dad is thin and fit and over 60. He has no issues. I have issues with energy and getting pumped. He just "stays active" and is fine, while I'm over here working hard to stay fit and healthy and I'm only 29.

[–]dankvibez0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Damn man. I'm sorry to hear about your issues, I hope things get better. I would try to get away from that place if I could.

[–]swordshab1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

They're making the freaking frogs gay!!!!

[–]liquidrummer21 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy

"Science Inside" lol.... When did linking to and quoting articles become science? If you knew science you would have dose sizes in different products along with some statistically significant data points. Go back to the gym and leave the science to scientists. Red pill fail once again.

[–]WolfofAnarchy6 points7 points  (5 children) | Copy

Are you stupid? There's literally scientific research inside, and if you clicked on the last study you'd see that there's a lot of data points and real-world numbers on many products.

[–]liquidrummer2-3 points-2 points  (4 children) | Copy

No, I'm not stupid. But this is far from scientific. Keep up the name calling it really looks good on you.

[–]WolfofAnarchy4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy

And you keep not-reading my posts

[–]npachikara0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Linking (citing) and quoting papers is the basis for scientific research so I'd say he's doing alright.

[–]inscnmya0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Okay, what about tap water? I hear all kinds of rumors on how its tainted with a chemical so that people would be more obedient?

I drink water from plastic bottles mostly to be able to count the L of water I drink per day. I'm guessing its not good for my balls.... Is the solution to buy a reusable container?

[–]WolfofAnarchy1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yes, a glass one would be better. Plastic is especially bad if those bottles are worn and sometimes get hot.

[–]Desadarius0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

All you can do is just do your best to avoid plastics. Use glass containers to store food and drink tap water out of glass bottles.

Or get on a cycle.

[–]rossiFan0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

And when you turn 40, go get your test shots, boys. Insurance covers it usually.

[–]bumbuff0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You're getting more estrogen in fast food than you are plastic leeching.

Not to say plastic isn't a culprit. But is cut out the worst offenders first before you go nuts otherwise

[–]pizzae0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I don't believe that plastic or any of these chemicals can change someone's beliefs from the truth, to lies. All it can do is affect ones mood and productivity, but it won't remove red pill thoughts.

[–]6-_-j0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Unfortunately plastic is too big to fail. Maybe with enough pressure and light changes could be made to make it safer but as I see it, the profits are too big for corporations to ever stop producing it.

[–]un-supervised-savage0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Carb backloading is Keto with a 1-5 carb up meals after a 10 day strict Keto diet. Keto works easier for a lot of folks because it's easier to cut carbs than to measure everything you eat. Calories in/calories out always applies. Keto just makes it easier to be in a calorie deficit with the added benefit of making you more insulin sensitive.

You can loose fat on a diet of only sugar and protein but you will be hungry as fuck because sugar and simple carbs for that matter are the least satiating food there is. People fail to loose weight because they fail to stay in a calorie deficit. Finding a diet that you can stick to is key. Keto isn't for everyone and it's not the only way. Hell the most successful diet Advise I've given was to eat 6-8oz of lean meat and 2cups of steamed green veggies before touching any carbs. Most feel full after that and can't eat many if any carbs. Carbs are vital to building muscle as fast as possible, more muscle = faster metabolism which makes staying lean easier. Carbs are only vital right after a workout when the muscles will absorb them for growth. The time of day that you eat them doesn't matter.

[–]Verne890 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

All those who were being tagged as "crazy conspiracy theorist" must be in a strange mind state now

[–]The_Gentleman_Thief0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

On the other side of the fence:

Do you think all these xenoestrogens are affecting women adversely as well? I don't know of any study but would this cause girls to develop earlier and thus maybe overdevelop (not seeing the problem with this)? However women have 10% testosterone they produce naturally. I wonder with their own elimination of testosterone their fight or flight has become non-existent and thus become less confident and less aggressive and more emotional and as we see now, more difficult.

[–]Mescuzzi0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Anyone read about metals found in deodorants? When your applying deodorants on a daily basis to your armpits, that has to lower T production. Anyone know of any products without these T lowering chemicals?

[–]spacexjunk0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

There's so many underlying factors out there that can lower your testosterone. I believe that plastic may have an affect on t-levels, but in reality, how MUCH is that affect? Is plastics a HUGE contributing factor to lower t-levels, or is the affect.. minisucle? I want to see a study on those conditions. Your evidence was a study done on a few Chinese factory workers, wtf? There's no reason to spread fear into this community without having evidence that actually proves that plastics is a major contributor to lowering t levels. Honestly, your entire post made me cringe. All this male hamstering going on in the responses is honestly pretty fucking cringey too. Focus on being a better man, plastics ain't gonna stop you bud, lol.

[–]prodigy2throw0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Based on the research I've done on all this, all these external effects are trivial at best. The main thing is HIIT, eating well and often and keeping yourself busy/ motivated.

Aside from that there isn't much you can do about your TEST unless you decide to inject.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

So what the fuck am I supposed to do dude just not buy shit in plastic? Lmao

[–]idgaf-0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I dug a little deeper, and found this disturbing study:


The handout-receiving group indeed showed no change, but for the catered local and organic diet group, BPA levels doubled and levels of the highly toxic phthalate DEHP jumped a stunning 2,377 percent.

Turns out, most milk and milk products have high levels. Even if organic, grass-fed, etc, due to the plastic tubing involved in milk production. There seems to be no way to avoid this if you want to drink milk.

Meat also has high levels, due to the plastic used transporting feed & feeding animals. Shit.

[–]WolfofAnarchy0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Fuck. Well, try to cut back where you can

[–]un-supervised-savage0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I'd recommend doing at least one carb up meal a week. This also helps with keeping your metabolism from slowing on a reduced calorie diet.

[–]dankvibez0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy



But seriously, there are some real merit to protecting the environment and monitoring chemicals being put into the water. Water quality shouldn't be left up to some hippies to take care of, EVERYONE should care. If you don't care about your water, you are a fucking faggot.

"Hey, I'm a low-t boy who likes to drink water with estrogen mimickers because it is important for my corporate overlords to be able to cheaply dispose waste and create shitty products at a low cost that poison me and my family slowly! After all, the sole purpose of my existence is to let men more powerful than me breed with as many women as possible! They need that money they save by dumping trash into the water to support their harem!"

[–]dankvibez0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

On a side note, is there any water purification that could remove these estrogen mimickers? (Vapor distillation, Reverse Osmosis, Etc).

[–]Chikinhok0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

[–]LOST_TALE0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

So what can we do?

need another post

[–]JFMX19960 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Great stuff.

There's so many things influencing our testosterone levels, it's crazy.

I was 17, and first got this weird purple bump right next to my nipple. Asked a doctor, maybe a sign of gynecomastia. Looked up the symptoms, and then looked at ways to lower estrogen levels and boost testosterone through diet.

Cut out a lot of sugars, BPAs, and dairy milk and man I saw some huge differences. No more energy drinks or soft drinks or any of that shit. Started leaning out like crazy, building muscle, and getting a deeper voice. Saw my jawline sharpening, and I got checked by a doctor again and he said those are all signs of your hormone levels getting back to where they're supposed to be.

I only got checked twice by the doctor, most the stuff is on the internet for you guys to check out.

Once you start paying attention to this shit, you see how fucked everything is. It really opens your eyes as to why so many guys are effeminate, so weak, and so emotional these days. Also no wonder girls are hitting puberty at younger and younger years.

I'd been planning on making a post on this subject for a while, but have been kind of busy. I first wanted to do one on the topic of gait, after I got a really good reception with my past one on posture.

These are really important things to catch on, especially for these young guys we have on here who are in their teens. The earlier you become aware of all these things, the more shit you can be spared later down the road.

[–]WolfofAnarchy0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Thank you, great post, too! Testosterone is what makes us assertive and male, and we should absolutely strive to naturally have lots of it.

Can you go into more detail about what exactly you did? You cut out all plastics? All milk? All added sugar?


[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Maybe it's true but I don't really buy it, even if it impacts T levels then it shouldn't be too much, compared to heredity. Natural high T won't be impacted by plastics even if they do negatively affect compared to natural low T in a plastic-free and anything else negatively impacting it free environment.

Also another poster already said it - what are you doing to do about it? The very keyboard and mouse or a screen you're touching right now is... PLASTIC!

Maybe wooden PCs are the future, like literal wooden PCs.

[–]murraydylan0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Want to know what also lowers testosterone? Worrying about this shit. Stressing out about this shit raises cortisol levels and lowers testosterone more than fucking plastic will. I bet you guys do daily activities that actively lower testosterone.

[–]benisohfug0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah that's all nice and dandy but...

how I can protect myself against this?

[–]dandons 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

The sad fact of the matter is that almost all of our food is toxic. This is why the "average" body is soft and chubby. Back in ancient times the average body was muscular and chiseled.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (10 children) | Copy

We're way more sedentary than we were back then.

Back in the day we worked in fields doing agriculture, hunting, or gathering

[–]therighttobecool2 points3 points  (9 children) | Copy

Doesn't physical activities just increase your cortisol and adrenaline levels?

[–]arthurabyssal1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Actually I think I remember a study finding that the more cortisol released during exercise, the larger the testosterone or muscle growth afterwards.

[–]therighttobecool0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Then why is cortisol demonized so much

[–]arthurabyssal1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Chronic high levels of cortisol throughout the day affect you. Short burts during intense activities are fine.

[–]CQC30 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

Not exactly. You can't compare the burst of exercise combo'd with relative sedentary activity that many people call being in shape.

The truth is that low impact activity throughout the day makes a huge difference to your health. What is better, to be active and walk/run throughout the day, or to cram it all into an hour?

Exercise is good, but it does not and cannot replace living an active and mobile life. That is the unfortunate part, we can all make changes but the modern world is not so compatible with being active for many people.

[–]therighttobecool0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Can you explain to me how an active lifestyle boosts testosterone?

[–]CQC31 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's not about boosting testosterone, it's about being mobile and active as you're intended to be.

Think about what sitting in a chair all day does to you. You waste away, your blood flows slower, your posture degenerates, your muscles atrophy since they are not lightly active and your bones grow weaker because you are not putting that minimal stress on them. I hate to go all woo woo on you too, but there is definitely a mind body connection in the simplest terms in which if you are sitting all day every day for most of it, your mind starts to stagnate and grow restless too. It's not groundbreaking to suggest that physical exercise is one of the best things to fight off anxiety and depression.

The body accommodates to whatever stress is placed on it, if your burden of living is literally just sitting in a chair all day then that is what your body will adjust to.

The muscle and bone part of the equation is helped tremendously by exercising and lifting weights, but the rest of the time sitting around is awful. Many lifters seem to also be allergic to cardio which is the dumbest fucking thing ever.

Strength is only 1 of 11 components of fitness, cardiovascular health is one of those. Many of these jacked lifters are sad as fuck, they can push great weight but get winded climbing a fucking staircase. You have to ask yourself, just how much strength do you need? At what point is benching more than 225 going to help? Now I'm not saying don't go for the gold here, but I think if you can bench 225, squat 315 and DL 405 but get winded easily, it's very clear that cardio is going to improve your life way more than getting higher lift numbers is.

My point is that peoples idea of health and fitness are skewed towards one thing or another instead of the whole picture. I'd say cardiovascular health is probably the most important thing, followed by resistance training (strength/endurance) followed by flexibility. Lifting for obvious reasons, but cardio and comprehensive stretching has helped stress control tremendously for me which in turn keeps my test higher since I sleep better and my body is not tense and restricted.

What do you suppose being inactive for the majority of the day does for all of this hard work? It acts against it. Rest is fine, sitting is fine, but for 6-8 hours a day?

[–]gradchad 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

So cranking out a few sets every couple of hours is better than a single workout?

[–]CQC31 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

No, continue to workout but consider that working out for an hour a day a few times a week is not going to undo the extreme sedentary lifestyle most people have nowadays. It's so normalized but it's not natural, it is an extreme lifestyle compared to what our bodies are meant to do in terms of movement and activity.

See my reply to the other guy under this same thread.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Dude. Do you have any idea how cortisol and adrenal hormone systems work? It doesn't seem like it.

Why are you asking here, when you have access to google? You need some foundational knowledge dude.

Go do some research and report back.


Doesn't don't physical activities

[–]parkthebus116 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

People's bodies are soft and chubby because they don't excersize and eat too much.

[–]AEGONS_ASS10 points11 points  (3 children) | Copy

Back in ancient times the average body was muscular and chiseled

actually back in ancient times the average body was short and skinny.

Do you kids have any fucking idea what you're talking about?

[–]welshmin4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah definitely wasn't muscular, but maybe "taut" is a word for it? Hard work and low quantity, low protein diets.

[–]dandons 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

Before agriculture. Any time pre 10,000 years ago. Humans had an average height of 6 ft when we were hunter gatherers. One study found footprints from thousands of years ago which indicated that ancient humans were almost as fast as modern day Olympic sprinters. Do you know what you're talking about?

[–]AEGONS_ASS1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Humans historically, have been great at running. Long distance running. We can outrun any animal, even horses. Even today, that's how african hunters get their kills. They chase down animals for hours - even days - until the animals can't run anymore. But humans are built for running, because we are upright, have big asses to help propel ourselves, have no hair so we sweat and cool down, and we can carry water.

But that's totally different to being strong and muscly. Don't get me wrong, my life is about lifting and getting swole, but we are fighting against our evolution by doing that.

[–]WolfofAnarchy6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy

I don't agree with the food part. If you buy whole foods - don't use plastic containers, don't buy fast food, don't drink too much alcohol, and get all your vitamins and minerals in while exercising plenty, you can be really healthy.

[–]Batmansiphone4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

The average person definitly doesnt do that though

[–]ShamwowTseDung1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

That's why they're average.

[–]Endorsed ContributorMarsupian5 points6 points  (5 children) | Copy

That is more due to sedentary behavior and easier access to food.

I do agree that a lot of manufactured food is pure shit.

[–]2niczar2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy

That is more due to sedentary behavior

Actually sedentary behavior is most likely a consequence of diet (which is itself the main cause) rather than a proximate cause.

Sugar is the source of the problem. IMO its impact on men's health is much more severe than plastics'. It's everywhere. Look at any manufactured food, there's sugar in it (and not even necessarily labelled as such, the food industry has dozens of names for fructose/sucrose, for some reason).

[–]CQC32 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

"Anhydrous dextrose, brown sugar, cane crystals, cane sugar, corn sweetener, corn syrup, corn syrup solids, crystal dextrose, evaporated cane juice, fructose sweetener, fruit juice concentrates, high-fructose corn syrup, honey, liquid fructose, malt syrup, maple syrup, molasses, pancake syrup, raw sugar, sugar, syrup and white sugar"

AKA sugar.

[–]Endorsed ContributorMarsupian0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Diet can influence behavior but the main causes for sedentary behavior are cars, jobs you can do sitting and media.

[–]2niczar0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

When I switched to a low carb diet, not only did I lose a lot of weight quickly, but I also found myself much more able to exercise. Indeed, I now exercise all the time not because I have to but because I want to, as I have a lot of energy to spare.

[–]Endorsed ContributorMarsupian0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Exercise isn't that significant compared to the hours and hours people spend behind screens and inside cars.

People think a couple of hours of exercise a week is good but when you put it in the historical perspective of Move. Eat. Sleep. you realise the human race is fucked.

[–]Dekaayy 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

i think every male should go on TRT at 175-200mgs of testosterone a week just to counteract all these negative affects.

[–]Endorsed Contributorvandaalen5 points6 points  (11 children) | Copy

Fucking bullshit.

This will shut down your body's production and you don't want to deal with it unless you absolutely have to. Absolutely get your bloodwork done, especially if you are over 30-40, but don't just start treatment if it is not necessary.

Also 175-200mg e7d is most likely too much for most. I am on 125mg e5d at 6'1 and 240lbs and training MMA 6-8 times a week, and it puts me right arounf a total T of 800 and a free T of 133.

Let aside you will also risk problems with estradiol at that amount, worsening your problems.

[–]1TrenGod371 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

It also depends what type of ester you're using. 175-200mg a week isn't much that much and shouldn't bring you up that high. That's a typical cruise dose but everyone is different. regardless yes. Get labs. Always.

[–]The_Gentleman_Thief0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Do you have any (b)acme from this? I want to go on TRT but I had almost deforming acne all through my teens which set me back a decade socially.

I am not willing to go on accutane ever again.

[–]Endorsed Contributorvandaalen1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Not really. At least not in the face. I take 50mg of zink daily though which is supposed to counter acne as well as some other issues. Maybe a post on r.testosterone about it.

[–]Dekaayy 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

no shit it will shut down your natural test. I think everyone should cruise on test to mitigate these recent third party estrogen enhancers. At that amount E2 levels wouldn't be effected significantly. If they are its nothing 0.5mg adex eod cant fix (max!!). Also free test and T levels are purely individual anecdotes, i'm 6'4 245 my levels aren't that high. Iv'e been self medicating with this for years and have had no issues. As for long term effects, i don't think mimicking natural "optimal" levels will cause severe adverse issues. Also it depends on your bodys affinity to bind to the receptors. Some people can have copious amounts of free T levels whilst others need proviron to increase FTL's. It's like how some people go bald from DHT receptor binding and others get prostate issues etc.. Everyone is different.

[–]1TrenGod37-2 points-1 points  (6 children) | Copy

Both of you need to stfu and up your tren

[–]Dekaayy 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

tren? pffft, i shoot 3cc's of Winny suspension into my calves eod for the lolz. 1.5 inch 19 gauge into my ticeps.

[–]1TrenGod37-1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy

I said tren not weak ass winny! Step it up

And is your ticep the muscle located next to or below your tricep?

[–]Dekaayy 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

its inside the tricep. bro winny suspension is the most crippling thing to inject. I mainline (intravenously) MENT every 13.5 minutes for maximum anabolic intrusion plus i have IGF-1 DES in an IV to mitigate any muscle loss during masturbational cardio

[–]1TrenGod370 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

No it isn't. It's water based. Prop is pretty shitty tho

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Im pretty sure that the time you spent writing this is more dangerous then the water you drink from a plastic bottle...

Also being extremely paranoid over crap like this is not healthy either...

[–]therighttobecool-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Here's another tip. Don't interact with women. If you have business with them, talk business but don't try to get friendly with them or even argue with them. Get what you want and get out of there. Women have this tendency to take things way too far where it doesn't need to go.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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