Q4All: "We treat women and girls like training wheels to help boys and men grow up, and not as individuals with our own desires" Just how true is that statement?

simeneta · 2021-02-21T17:39:07+00:00

I don't think the linked post was a male vs female thing but rather a child vs adult and their respective autonomy thing. A lot of people don't see children as individuals who have their own thoughts, feelings and boundaries. Think about how often children are forced to interact with a relative even if they're uncomfortable with the interaction.

Most people would not chastise an ADULT woman for being uncomfortable with hugging a man she did not know well. But a lot of people have blinders on when it comes to children having similar feelings.

catfishmasc · 2021-02-21T17:49:43+00:00

I think it's true for more conservative/men-oriented groups.

I grew up in a catholic "women should listen and do what they are tods" atmosphere. If my older brother was angry or didn't do something, it was my fault. When we refused to dance with boys on a school dance, we were yelled at and had to apologize to them. The boys were mean to us and mocked us on daily basis, that's why we didn't want to interact with them. But adults said that it's a normal boy's behavior and that they do it because they like us.

It's a little different in more modern circles. Almost all of my female friends and I escaped the conservative environment and we do see the difference. But it might also be a reason that our male friends are pretty liberal.

It doesn't mean that this problem was completely gone. There was a guy in my former job who would hit on every girl and say things like "I love your boobs in this blouse", try to hug me, or touch my hair whenever we were alone and did other awful things. I saved some messages from him and discussed it with my team. A couple of guys said that I'm being ridiculous and pretty much a bitch because I wanted to "destroy his life". The fact that I was afraid to go to the toilet or the kitchen because he often followed me, and that I cried before work because of the stress caused by his behavior was irrelevant to them.

But my friend said one smart thing, that I'm not responsible for a grown-up mans' actions and he brought trouble on himself.

alwaysonalongtrip · 2021-02-21T17:37:35+00:00

"Girls are pressed to “Just give him a chance,” even when we aren’t attracted to the guy."

This sentiment has put me in so many dangerous situations where I ignored my intuition because I felt "bad" I was judging him and not "giving him a chance".

wtknight · 2021-02-21T18:52:56+00:00

I agree with this. I think that a lot of men would actually be more successful in life if they learned not to base their self-esteem upon the ability to attract a woman. Unfortunately, too many men are too weak-willed for this to likely ever be reality. Personally, I only started being able to attract women once I realized that I didn't need them in order to be happy.

SaBahRub · 2021-02-21T18:21:49+00:00

[deleted]

Kandace21 · 2021-02-21T17:30:41+00:00

You can see it right here in this subreddit and also in the works of Jordan Peterson.

This idea that men need women/female validation in order to develop and mature to adulthood and that without positive female presence men reject responsibility and become unproductive.

It’s the desire to impress females that leads men to seek out education, career, and the responsibility of providing for a woman and her children that leads men to work and contribute to the economy/ society.

Without a woman to care for a lot of men become unproductive NEETS.

However men do not see women as individuals with their own desires and destiny’s but as a “helpmate” to achieving their own. Men expect women to give up our dreams and follow them which more and more women are rejecting. Hence the disconnect between women and men today.

the-worst- · 2021-02-21T19:14:15+00:00

As someone who dated a man-child and then married a different man-child: this is very true. I have never met a man who didn't want "his girl" to be anything other than a mom replacement that he can bone whenever he feels like it.

I have never been seen as an equal in any relationship I've been in. Being fat doesn't help because then men feel you should be SO very greatful they even looked at you that you should do anything they as in return for the pleasure of being graced with their presence.

Honestly I wish my family hadn't been homophobic so i could have embraced my bisexuality and realised sooner that women care more about your feelings and being equals than men do. But here I am in love with a man who says he loves me yet brushes off my feelings about things he does or blames me for any problems I have.

Mimoxs · 2021-02-21T19:14:48+00:00

The type of situation described in the post is extremely common. Little girl doesn't want to do something for a boy, she's pressured by everyone around her to do so and shamed if she doesn't. Girls are used as tools to develop boys.

A good example of this is the strategy schools use to deal with misbehaved boys. Often boys who have serious behavioral issues or mental issues will be placed next to or intentionally partnered with (by teachers) girls, specifically soft quiet girls. This happened to me all my life.

No one ever asked me if I wanted to be placed with them. If I complained, I was treated like the bad guy for being "heartless" and not wanting to help them, because of the assumption that helping them to be better people was my responsibility.

I can't count how many "just give him a chance :)" I've gotten regarding men either. If you don't give him a chance, you're heartless, but if you accept him and he does something bad, it's your fault for choosing him.

NinjaOfTheSouth · 2021-02-21T17:17:45+00:00

I think it’s because women are forced and in general grow up faster then boys. But I don’t believe in the notion that women are held back so guys can grow up, doesn’t make sense to me.

Although, parents are more strict raising girls because of pregnancy/sexuality and shit.

poppy_blu · 2021-02-21T22:03:55+00:00

Before anyone denies that women have for eons been socialized if not forced to do the moral policing of mens desires and behaviors, remember that you’re on a sub where the main theme of 90% of posts is the audacity of women today making their own sexual and relationship choices.

SaBahRub · 2021-02-21T17:40:43+00:00

That’s the whole point of the female love interest in any male led movie

John_Oakman · 2021-02-21T18:23:07+00:00

I don't think it's just a gendered thing, but rather a sort of class thing. Modern society expects the provider & agreeable types (of both genders) to contribute everything out of a sense of altruism and pay for the sins & transgressions of others (i.e. those who actually did the things society deemed as bad).

This is the root of the reason why more and more people are checking out of society in general: because society have overestimated the amount of altruistic people in existence and are exploiting those who nominally responds to more material incentives rather than abstract incentives.

passepar2t · 2021-02-21T17:13:12+00:00

Most people get the training wheel treatment at one point or another. It's not just girls. We're all disposable accessories to someone, which often includes family members.

Also, who is "we?" Women don't see men as individuals with their own desires. Men don't see women as individuals with their own desires.

EusticeSymington · 2021-02-21T18:39:10+00:00

Woke Capitalist oligarchs have taught women to be better worker cogs. They have filled them with messages that they matter more than anyone; more than their men, family, community, nation. This is also why they are dissuaded from having babies because then they couldn't be the most important person in the universe. The have been turned into unlikable psuedo-men, stripped of any traditional femininity. They are sold this and told by following this path that they are being edgy and woke when in reality the oligarchs just want them as wageslaves with no alliegence to family, race, culture: completely atomised individuals. The only thing they are allowed to have any passion for is whatever woke trend the Corporations want them to follow. One change to an algorithm away.

Men are as bad but I'm not breaking then down in this post.

Sad.

Lonely_23_1997 · 2021-02-21T20:06:49+00:00

Extremely true!

Nobodyz_Nikki · 2021-02-21T21:09:49+00:00

I can kind of agree with this. This is because the ability to nurture is emphasised and opposed on woman and girls. And a lot of it isn't even based on how we as women nurture ourselves or other women but how we nurture boys and men.

Suck-Less · 2021-02-21T23:25:28+00:00

This is not even close to true.

The entire education system is geared to girls at boys expense. Even up to college near 11 times the scholarships are for young women. It amounts to 2/3 of students being female.
Girls can make up whatever “sexual assault/rape” story they want and the boy will be expelled and prosecuted , just on her word.
If she hits him it’s funny, if he hits back he is expected.
Almost all early childhood development is in the domain of women. It’s women that nurture crying daughters and tell their crying sons to man up.

It’s the boys that are expendable not the girls.

Sonic_The_Hamster · 2021-02-21T17:21:16+00:00

Nothing to do with male or female is all to do with how we percieved those that have disabilities and how we treat the varying degrees of visual disabilities and completely ignore those that have invisible disabilities.

This would have been the same if it was the other way round. Except we'd have a different defence of the action of the parent by many taking the opposite view to what they seem to hold. BTW I think the OP of teb tread did right.

Many people like to see their sex as victims and will find anyway to justify their view. This simply isn't the case for many issues that we see.

Hoopy223 · 2021-02-21T17:30:45+00:00

Complete bullshit.

Banned_BY_SOYMEN · 2021-02-21T18:43:21+00:00

Just more imaginary first world bullshit problems that wahmen/feminists have fabricated to justify their all-time retarded conspiracy of the pAtRiArChY. Girls are given far more assistance, aid, and resources than boys are given — yet boys are the ones given training wheels?

Flat_Plane_V8 · 2021-02-21T19:49:17+00:00

more like white men AND women treat men, women of other races as training wheels

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Mrs_Drgree · 2021-02-21T17:15:49+00:00

[deleted]

SucreLavande · 2021-02-21T19:38:17+00:00

That depends on the parents and the community and where people live . It wasn’t the case for me as my parents are liberal and educated. However in my friends groups in university being thin dressing well, having a bf , getting engaged etc were really a measure of success and probably at least as important to me as my studies :(

GridReXX · 2021-02-21T21:54:34+00:00

At first I thought her reply was a bit out of context for that OP but I mostly agree with her comment.

Regarding the linked OP, that mom and her daughter learned a harsh lesson. Sometimes maintaining your boundaries means “offending” someone.

It’s a sucky lesson, but it’s a real one. I also think the mom of the son needs to be spoken to by the teacher. “Your son is allowed to participate with the other students as long as the other students feel comfortable. Some kids do not want to be touched or kissed on the cheek and neither you or your son should internalize that.”

And so I can see how that reply related that to women feeling badly for saying no to people because we don’t want them to not like us or we don’t want to hurt their feelings.

Women tend to take on the burden of building up and rehabilitating boys/men.

Laytheblameonluck · 2021-02-21T22:54:17+00:00

This is absurd. The example provided does not help. I cannot comprehend why women would feel that men "treat women and girls like training wheels to help boys and men grow up, and not as individuals with our own desires".

It doesn't make sense.

Danger3214 · 2021-02-21T23:50:48+00:00

Another interesting thing she mentioned was this girl being pressured to take this disabled boy to the prom instead of her boyfriend, I think it might have been in another aita post. I wonder how common that is? Because the only person I really see winning in that scenario are the people who pressured her to feel good about themselves. The girl loses out because she's not bringing who she wants to when she goes to the prom. And the boy loses out because if he has enough awareness he'll realise he's been treated as the school's special project and resent it. Or if he has low or none awareness then he loses out because he'll most likely never find or even have much interest in love, so putting in him that scenario is cruel.

Substantial-Dealer76 · 2021-02-22T02:35:16+00:00

Yeah there’s nothing worse than “male child with a disability” cooties.

Should I comment on the whole “woman as a prop” thing before or after checking up on news regarding OnlyFans pages?

RedCoquette · 2021-02-22T03:36:28+00:00

I think this is true in a narrow sense, and is a big reason why so many men are blue pill. They pedestalize women and romance. They end up relying on women for validation and guidance, and consequently, become dependent on female charity. This results in a weird dehumanization of women as mysterious validation objects, instead of real people with real desires and real flaws. When the blue pill nice guys realize that women aren't playing the role of doting Mommy, they sperg out, or worse.

LeJacquelope · 2021-02-22T05:10:55+00:00

That's true of TRP men.

MisterShogunate · 2021-02-22T13:43:11+00:00

I don't think it's about men vs women than it's people with disabilities getting special favors. Young boys also get pressured the same way when it comes to treating people with ID.

This is too specific of a situation to generalize towards your point.

Whisper · 2021-02-23T09:15:26+00:00

Who's "we"?

Unteryn · 2021-02-26T09:03:34+00:00

I think children have a right to boundaries, but there was no need to demonize an entire gender in the process of teaching that.

TheBookOfSeil · 2021-02-21T17:56:38+00:00

I think it sounds like some BS triggered feminist perspective. Women are supportive by nature. Taking one or a few isolated incidences of some girl/woman "being forced to be nice" is not a counterpoint to women being supportive by nature, and it isn't an argument for "women and girls are like training wheels to help boys and men grow up."

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