So done with avoidant men.

sleutherino · 2022-01-02T20:45:59+00:00

One small thing I've noticed that men like this do is say things like, "let's see where it goes", which is code for, "I'm probably not actually going to comit, and if I do I won't be emotionally available. I didn't promise anything".

Like, yeah we want guys who are independent and laid back, but if from the very start they're treating it casually, watch out. They don't want a deeper relationship, and when you start to do those things, it would explain why they start backing out.

If they don't show full interest up front, or if they start texting back slower and slower, keep looking. Avoid casual men, or men who clearly only text you back when they have nothing better to do, and you'll weed st least some of these men out.

LadiesOpinion · 2022-01-02T21:19:08+00:00

Same issue. I don't think you can easily vet for this in the early dating stages, since normal people will also be on guard and emotionally closed-off in the very beginning.

Be sure to not cling on whenever it comes apparent they aren't matching your preferred energy. Do not adjust your behaviour to their preferences either. I fell into the "am I too clingy?" trap with my Avoidant ex and it took me months to emotionally recover from doubting myself all the time.

millennialpink2000 · 2022-01-02T22:04:39+00:00

One sign to spot these guys is they can't get into anything because they're as deep as a wading pool. They have no real hobbies, passions, friendships and they tend to be ambivalent about their job, even though it's often the one thing they hinge their personality on. These guys don't do anything with their chest, because they're empty inside and avoiding life.

myroaringtwenties · 2022-01-02T20:47:33+00:00

Boundaries. Holding to your standards. I’m still reading through the guidebook, but it seems that’s pretty much the first step.

When you’re casually dating, do you know with certainty he’s seeking a relationship? Do you know anything about their relationship history? Any successful prior long term relationships, or serial “dater” with nothing long term?

You aren’t being clingy, the problem is not you. If days go by without contact, they were never interested in a serious relationship with you in the first place, sadly. If days go by without hearing from them, block and delete.

Your time and emotional wellbeing are both entirely too valuable to allow anyone to cause you to question yourself so much! So please don’t.

Learn intentions before waiting around for too long. If their energy does not match yours, say goodbye. Instead of bending your rules to accommodate the person they are that makes you unhappy, stick to your rules and walk away at the first sign it’s not it. Men do show who they are early, and will also make their intentions extremely clear if they’re romantically interested in you.

If he wanted to, he would!!!! Men who want to see you and be with you will never allow you to feel doubt about it. I thought I was insecure and doomed to never be happy because I’d always be worried and wanting more - as soon as I met someone who actually liked me, I never once felt doubt at how much they cared for me … don’t accept anything less than that.

Sewud · 2022-01-02T23:05:32+00:00

Yeah I've noticed they basically match the opposite of my energy. If I'm not invested yet and don't care if they come or go because I don't know them yet, that's when they're begging me to invest and commit, lecturing me about how I have to stop talking to other guys, etc. Then once I accept their demands and fully concentrate on them, they go cold and ignore me. Then they are almost like "who are you again? I didn't ask you for anything". There was a guy who, while I was still being careful, told me he was making plans for the future including me, then once I trusted him, he made other plans to live somewhere else entirely that did not include me, without telling me. He had no intention to tell me about it, I just found out because of small talk here and there. He was just going to stop texting me, without an explanation. And this is after he was so dramatic and manipulative at the start.

In fact, I don't know if that's an avoidant thing, but I've noticed that once they make the decision in their head that they no longer want a relationship, they do not feel the need to tell you. It's like they're all about themselves. I had a boyfriend (embarrassing) who got frustrated that I didn't want to go on a trip to visit him (because it was inconvenient for me or whatever), and he decided he couldn't accept getting turned down, and instead of breaking up with me, he just blocked me without an explanation. So he went from pressuring me to go on this trip to visit him, and after I politely said no, he just blocked me and even held big resentment against me for not going. Once they no longer need what they were getting from you, they drop you without telling you, even if they're the reason they no longer want you.

I don't know, but I think they're like addicts. They are pursuing whatever they feel in the moment will satisfy their needs. Maybe they're going through a bad time and a girlfriend makes them feel good. They'll pursue you and say anything to convince you because they want to satisfy their needs urgently. They even get fixated like only this girl can do it. Then later maybe they no longer have that need, maybe now they want to start a new career, they have some other new need. Don't ask them to be self-aware. They've heard of men doing this, but they never think they are doing this. They think they're the good man and their needs are the only truth anyway. They don't feel the need to tell you when they move on. They are not the kind to care about another person's needs ever. A husband should care about others.

Im_Not_Honey · 2022-01-02T21:00:16+00:00

Your history sounds a lot like mine. And I'm going to be honest. I had the exact same stresses. Should I double text? He did, so maybe? Did I do something wrong when we hung out? I thought we were getting close?

How I vetted? Anytime I felt this way, bye boy👋 I realized that if I found myself confused, stressed, and turning the situation into a literal equation, it's because I'm putting to much effort into something, while the guy is not. To me, it's a sign that the guy is likely a scrote, and has not made it clear what he wants out of the situation. When that happens, it's a sign to leave.

This happened to me quite a bit. I ditched 3 guys in 3 months because of this. And I'm glad I did. By some miracle of God, I found my very HV fiancé. FINALLY I didn't feel any of the stress and uncertainty. For the first time, me AND the guy were equally putting in effort. After 2 years, there hasn't been a time where I felt like I wasn't getting what I'm giving.

My point being, a true HV man will not leave you scratching your head, wondering what you did or what you guys are. There will be nothing to over think, because he won't leave you uncertain at any point. It took me 5+ years to realize that uncertainty was a red flag. And it took me 10+ years to find a man who made me realize that it is possible to not ever feel that way. Keep your head up, and be as picky as possible!😘❤

generallynothing · 2022-01-02T20:59:40+00:00

I've had this a few times and it took me a while to realise I deserved better. I dated a guy in 2020 who I'd known for a few years and he was the one that initiated things. At first he was great, then got lazy with chatting and suggesting dates. So one day I just didn't text him. And that was that. I've dated a couple of other guys since then and the second they even hint at being avoidant I end it in my head and cut contact. Even if they're still keen. I just decided I'm not wasting my time on anyone that doesn't give 100% and doesn't work on their issues.

jjlew922 · 2022-01-02T21:55:20+00:00

I feel your pain! Didn’t matter if I was cautious and respected the build-up to intimacy or jumping in and laying it all out on the table, both types of men have ended up emotionally unavailable for me in the past. A key indicator I look back on now is if they have truly been able to move on from a past heartache- what they learned, improved in themselves, and how they show up today (many may cognitively know what they want but too emotionally immature to get there). A book that really opened my eyes was He’s Scared, She’s Scared. At the end of the day we can only change ourselves and it helped me to unpack the ways my own emotional unavailability and insecure attachment was rearing it’s ugly head again. I 100% believe that we can be pushed backwards not forwards with the wrong people in our lives and knowing when to walk away, early and often, is key. I also really liked the Dance of Intimacy as well as the Dance of Anger which I read first as I struggled to own my own anger and express it due to being raised by narcissists. In the end, trust yourself, you’ve got this!

BongSlurper · 2022-01-02T23:33:01+00:00

Tbh if you’re thinking this hard about it, and making yourself nuts about what they’re thinking and their intentions…I’d just say cut your losses. The right man for you isn’t going to make you wonder, he’s not going to be avoidant, and he’ll be clear about his own intentions and expectations.

What you’re describing sounds a bit bread crumby, and honestly you’ll absolutely know when a guy is really into you. He’d make it obvious through his words, actions, and lack of excuses. You wouldn’t have questions like these to begin with. Set a higher standard I say.

herbivorouscarnivore · 2022-01-02T20:58:17+00:00

Is aloof who you really are, though? I tend to go into relationships full throttle lol Let the weak men find the door early so they don’t waste my time.

Timely_Fox_6191 · 2022-01-02T20:42:03+00:00

Well, I guess it's already a bad sign of he's part of the peanut gallery for months, right? He should be interested in getting to know you more from the get-go, in a respectful way of course. It's also a good thing to check his future plans early on. If you don't align, it's easy to stop contact.

DiosaCordilia · 2022-01-03T00:03:50+00:00

How can I weed this out earlier? I seem to be missing all the red flags.

What makes you available to emotional avoidant men?
Don't be intimate with a man when you're not sure if he wants to even be exclusive and have a relationship with you.
Be clear with your intentions and make him say what his intentions are first, from the beginning.
Did you read the handbook?

2022-01-03T03:27:34+00:00

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_mooness · 2022-01-02T22:10:33+00:00

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lucidlotus · 2022-01-03T06:20:26+00:00

Avoidant men are a dime a dozen. Wish people would identify the parenting style that’s creating them and knock that shit off. The last two I knew I’m pretty sure were related to having absent or passive fathers.

Far_from_deceived · 2022-01-02T22:23:56+00:00

Yes, like you, I am sick of this bullSh** of nO sTrInGs aTTacHed, or “playing games”. “OMG why is he not answering??” “The last time he texted me was…”

This used to give me such a huge anxiety and now that I’m 30, I’m done with those “gAmEs”. I have no patience. If he doesn’t show interest 100%, boy bye.

GeorgiaPeach_94 · 2022-01-02T21:08:24+00:00

If a man has an allergic reaction to intimacy and becomes a scared turtle, im not gonna step up my love and safety cues, hoping that he will feel safe enough to be as open and vulnerable as when he pursued me.

There's nothing I can do, if he's scared of feeling safe then I've gotta go...

But as far as vetting for that, it's hard. The second they pull away and give spotty intimacy is when you've received your red flag. Ideally we would only date men who said they wanted serious things, but you can never trust a man's words, only watch what he's communicating through his actions.

katiekat0214 · 2022-01-02T21:58:12+00:00

As an older woman, I'm not a fan of aloofness even in the beginning, and I'll tell you why. I speak only for myself, and YMMV. I know that when I met men who were handsome, perfectly nice, and with whom I got along -- but the spark just wasn't there -- I was aloof. I knew without knowing even in young pickme days that they weren't my person, so I held back all of me, knowing they couldn't handle all of me. Sure enough, they could not at all handle all of me, and breakups ensued.

With Jack, late beloved second husband, we were full-on from the beginning, all cards on the table, nothing held back, and it was glorious. I have a thing I do to vet, where I tend to pepper men with lots of questions, have side conversations/digressions, make connections to things they've said before, make literary allusions, etc. Think Tony Stark: that intensity, that quickness. Jack handled it, and matched me, and loved it. There's the spark, and it just never stopped until his last breath.

I posit that you're aloof because you just don't feel it. I used to get so frustrated as a child because I asked older people, how did you know you wanted to marry? They'd say, "You just know," with a shrug. It took me decades to realize they weren't holding back; they simply couldn't articulate all the tiny details that went on, and I can't, either, but it really is true. There's that bone-deep sense of rightness, knowing, alignment, vibing together, and you WANT to open up completely, because the other person truly sees you and loves every part of you.

hopeful_flounder93 · 2022-01-02T21:27:21+00:00

Disappear the second you see a red flag or feel any distance 🥰

All the red flags should be in the handbook. These idiots are all the same and will out themselves in comically predictable ways while you're letting them pay for dates & not giving them access to sex. Then you get to walk away having lost nothing, and these morons can pay (literally) for their dumbass refusal to get therapy.

FI-REfox · 2022-01-02T21:37:57+00:00

It's important not to give yourself over to a man you don't know well, of course, but after 2 months, he will have made his intentions to get closer clear if that was his goal. The fact that they pull away when you are trying to get closer is the red flag. That they are happy with the emotional distance after this amount of time tells you exactly what they want.

It's not you, it's them. As soon as they start pulling away, you know what they are really after. Cut your losses at this point. You are not clingy or overbearing. You are a normal human being with a normal need for connection. These men are the deviants.

millions_ofpeachs4me · 2022-01-03T00:06:15+00:00

Your aloofness may be working against you, and I say this as a fellow-reserved woman. Avoidant men are attracted to women they perceive as somewhat unavailable because, if the relationship progresses, they believe they can continue being avoidant without consequences. Of course, the conflict starts when he wants more emotional labor and you want more investment.

If you really like the guy and want to put off avoidants, be as engaged as you can. Answer texts and calls right away, pay full attention when he’s speaking, when he does something you want/enjoy, give him little laughs and touches. An emotionally open and mature man will love that and escalate and an avoidant, other than the most narcissistic asshats, will show themselves as, well, avoidant. The trash takes itself out. If it doesn’t, you move on without warning.

Guys are humans too. From talking to the ones in my family and friend circle, they sometimes say to themselves, “If she wanted to, she would.”

blehblahbloopboop · 2022-01-02T21:34:20+00:00

I had a scrote who texted me night and day until we met up. Then he kept wanting to hang out but “doesn’t text” and would call me randomly with no heads up at all. Ok, so I started calling him. He picked up maybe 50% of the time. Then on dates, he would be texting and calling people even though he would make me wait days sometimes. I point blank asked him 2 times if he still wanted to date and he was very adamant about it. I gave up after the second time. I don’t need to ask at all. Sketchy af. Drop immediately.

SupermarketObvious92 · 2022-01-02T21:38:18+00:00

Hmm well there’s this book on attachment issues called “Attached” by Amir Levine and Rachel Heller.

They say that dating advice recommending playing hard to get and not initiating much is counterproductive for especially the anxiously attached. Because you let the other set the tone, you can become a magnet for avoidants apparently. They feel safe when you don’t initiate.

They advocate for open communication of what you expect (I’d be cautious with this as LVM will use it against you) and most importantly not letting him set the pace of the relationship. So: let him know you’re interested, don’t be afraid to message first sometimes, etc. etc.

It sounds logical to me, and might be worth -cautiously- trying. (I haven’t tried it yet because I’m not dating currently.) Maybe find a middle road between this and FDS? You’d probably want to vet stricter with this approach ie. if he doesn’t reply as fast as you, block and delete. So no approaching him first or chasing, just being more responsive and ‘cooperative’?

asoww · 2022-01-03T07:59:54+00:00

Personally, yes I am busy with my own life but when I decide to date, I am very serious about who I give a chance to. So I look into their pattern of communication very closely from the start. If the way they court me doesn't bring me much happiness but more anxiety, I'm out. So I don't think I could ever do 2 months with an avoidant anymore. I want to feel secure from the start and continuously with the man I'm dating. I don't deal with insecure feelings anymore when it comes to relationships.

kaitybubbly · 2022-01-04T02:12:16+00:00

Honestly big same. I most recently had this experience while dating, the guy was an avoidant type and it felt like pulling teeth to get him to keep up regular communication. So I didn't. And stopped seeing him. Thankfully it was only five dates and I had my eyes opened to this behaviour by FDS.

queeninprogress · 2022-01-03T22:53:13+00:00

Unfortunately I'm not sure it is always easy to tell they're avoidant at first. As far as red flags go, I'd say having strings of short term relationships, no close friends or a constantly switching friend group, lacking a close relationship even with family members, spending a lot of time online, preferring to talk online Vs in person are all possible early signs. Also jobs, if they show lack of commitment to their work or studies, that probably bleeds into their personal life too

bearded_dragonlady · 2022-01-03T14:18:10+00:00

> Before, I was too preoccupied with my own life to notice the periodic absences

If a guy is disappearing like this within the first few months of dating, I can only imagine how bad he is as a LT boyfriend

TempDetect · 2022-01-03T17:26:51+00:00

A (healing) avoidant woman who is attracted to (healing) anxious men:

Yeah the beginning is great, but the questions (How is your day? What is your favorite cookie? How was your weekend?) are placing the onus on me to have a conversation and then to actually act/ask them out/take care of those insecurities without acknowledging the insecurities. The validation is great in the beginning but the burden of the two of us is too great as time goes on.

I now respond best to men who are aware of their anxieties and can show me their personalities outside of those anxieties.

Zitrone77 · 2022-01-03T10:31:56+00:00

I just wanted to add, that there is a fine line between avoidants and covert narcissists. Things can blend very easily. There is also the two types of avoidants. The dismissive ones are the ones who often say “Let’s see where this goes.” I run from them. I’m past that point in my life. But if they express it in a secure way and not be anxious about it, then I can deal with that Because I’m similar, too.

A rebound I had, which was a bad idea from the start anyway, pulled this shit when I asked where this was going. Let’s see where this going 🤡. Red flags went up and he treated me ok, but sex was his primary goal each time. Pulled away from him and explained this is not what I wanted. Probably shouldn’t have even done that. Tried to contact me a few months later for wine because he was bored during lockdown. Block and delete.

But if he’s fearful avoidant, then he better be getting therapy. These ones are the worst. They have the ability to show intimacy and make plans, but then it gets too scary with them. This borders on covert narcissism, IME, but I’m not a doctor, sooo…

I’ll stay single and happy with my cats.

Throwawaylikehay · 2022-02-24T02:57:03+00:00

Thanks so much for creating this discussion.

Title	So done with avoidant men.
Author	_mooness
Upvotes	826
Comments	101
Date	January 2, 2022 8:20 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/FemaleDatingStrategy
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/comments/ruie6a/so_done_with_avoidant_men/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/so-done-with-avoidant-men.1093061 https://theredarchive.com/post/1093061

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