Is it wrong to do circumcisions?

clockworkgirl21 · 2012-02-16T01:23:45+00:00

I would say it's very wrong to do it to an infant, as an infant cannot consent.

As a medical student, you should bring this up. We need more doctors who refuse to mutilate babies.

TheRealPariah · 2012-02-16T01:52:51+00:00

Would you perform circumcision on a girl?

getthefuckoutofhere · 2012-02-16T02:39:08+00:00

is it wrong to mutilate someone's genitals without their consent

LET ME PONDER THIS ONE FOR A MINUTE

Celda · 2012-02-16T01:20:05+00:00

Is it wrong to do a mastectomy? No.

But it is wrong if you do it on someone against their will.

So circumcisions are fine, but they're extremely wrong if you do it on someone who doesn't consent.

Equa1 · 2012-02-16T01:38:56+00:00

I'll just mention that I responded to flabbigan's question in AskReddit and also remarked that he might want to ask here (where the view on non-medically-required circumcision is pretty firm, but I thought other MR contributors could help with evidence, debunking of pro-routine-circumcision arguments, etc.)

My response to the question is here: http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/prhmu/is_it_morally_wrong_to_do_circumcisions/c3rndje

Edit: as an addendum to my original response, perhaps you could try to get them to let you do a medically-required circumcision instead (not sure how often those are done).

tykusstarcraft · 2012-02-16T06:22:27+00:00

hey bro don't mind me am just gona cut a part of your dick of ..bro don't cry it's just skin it looks fine now you don't have to clean it .....

danxmason · 2012-02-16T06:02:36+00:00

"Do no harm". You should only be doing circumcisions when there is phimosis, necrosis, or tissue required for penile reconstruction. Any other circumcision is unethical.

newsgentry · 2012-02-16T05:32:37+00:00

I've actually been wanting to post this question here. My boyfriend and I have talked about children as it's something we both someday want. If we have a son, my inclination is to let him choose for himself if he would want to be circumcised when he's older.

However, my boyfriend strongly disagrees. He was circumcised as an infant and he's very happy about it. He believes it's more hygienic and it's better to do it to a young child because they won't remember the pain, as opposed to having to experience it later.

Thankfully, we probably won't be having children for a least a couple more years, but it's a bit awkward because I feel that, being female, I don't really have a say in this.

BinaryShadow · 2012-02-16T02:51:41+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Kazinsal · 2012-02-16T06:35:08+00:00

It is only "right" if medically necessary, at which point it is a health-related medical procedure.

Whisper · 2012-02-16T07:49:35+00:00

is it wrong for me to participate in this?

The fact that you asked the question means you already know the answer.

The real question is, are you going to take the path of least resistance? Or are you going to do the right thing?

CloudDrone · 2012-02-16T02:40:40+00:00

I can only speak for myself here. I wish I wouldn't have been circumsized. I have a hard time pissing straight because of mine... Its like filling your mouth with water and squeezing your cheeks. You have no problem getting the water out but the accuracy just isn't there.

kanuk876 · 2012-02-16T01:18:49+00:00

Remember, circumcision is not done for the benefit of the child; it is done for the benefit of the parents, doctor and society. The child is an unwilling participant, physically restrained and overpowered due to their relatively small size and helplessness.

Is it wrong for you to cut off an important organ from a non consenting human being?

Circumcision is torture, amputation, mutilation.

Circumcision is a human rights violation.

Maybe as a doctor you don't care about these things.

If your residency program required you to remove the clit from infant girls, would you participate? If not, why the sexist attitude?

Your question is simple to answer: yes, it is wrong for you to participate.

The better question is: why do you have to ask?!

mf_sovereignty · 2012-02-16T06:27:57+00:00

Let's even assume circumcision does confer some health benefit, slightly reducing the risk of infection. Would you remove a baby's appendix? Or tonsils?

It's wrong to cut off a piece of a baby.

mikesteane · 2012-02-16T08:18:52+00:00

Read the comments from girlwriteswhat below. It is absolutely wrong fro you to perform a circumcision on someone who is not able to give informed consent or to refuse.

graffiti81 · 2012-02-16T11:52:59+00:00

If the infant gives consent, go ahead. If it's just the parents, I say no, let the kid decide when he's old enough.

smischmal · 2012-02-16T03:01:32+00:00

REAL DOCTORS don't perform unnecessary surgery.

secretly_a_zombie · 2012-02-16T04:09:41+00:00

If it's an adult man with a sound mind, nothing wrong with that. If it's a medical emergency, again nothing wrong.

If it's a person who's not in a state of mind that would make him able to consent (eg, kids etc). That is not okay at all.

memymineown · 2012-02-16T02:32:54+00:00

Yes.

Thuren · 2012-02-16T10:50:14+00:00

Of course it's wrong to mutilate children.

Are circumcised penises less sensitive? Seems like yet another case of sexually anorectic religion trying to push their perverse ideas onto people to me.

Cgod77 · 2012-02-16T14:32:59+00:00

Ironically the hospital I was trained at started charging parents cash up front, and the rate of circumcisions dropped right off.

It's not right, but I'd recommend just doing whatever you need to to get through your program, then become an activist later.

I watched several circumcisions in school. I can't believe for years that doctors seriously felt that babies couldn't feel pain, those male infants sure as shit acted like something bad was happening to them.

What people feel is dirty or hygenic is ridicous. You have to touch the penis and use soap and water (when the baby is old enough to have soap used on their skin).

When you graduate please do what you can to end this superstitious practice.

2012-02-16T15:45:00+00:00

In the UK, I'm pretty sure that you can be charged with "assault occasioning actual bodily harm" for cutting someone's hair and various women's groups routinely campaign against vaginoplasty and labiaplasty done for cosmetic reasons (both of which are only carried out on consenting adults). While circumcision is not as much of a widespread problem in the UK as, say, America (where it is more likely to be performed for purely cosmetic reasons), it is still legal to perform it on infants and some NHS practices do fund it for religious reasons.

"To a woman her hair is a vitally important part of her body. Where a significant portion of a woman's hair is cut off without her consent, this is a serious matter amounting to actual (not trivial or insignificant) bodily harm." - I'm not entirely sure who this quote is from (someone named as Creswell J. on Wikipedia), or their stance on circumcision, but I do wonder just how much more people, in general, value the integrity of a woman's hair than that of a baby boy's genitals.

Ethanfb · 2012-02-16T21:09:25+00:00

I'm not making the choice here, but please do know that the foreskin is everything, everything BUT "Just" a bit of skin!!

It has 12 known functions:

http://www.cirp.org/pages/anat/

Reading material:

http://www.nocircmn.org/index_files/Page519.htm

http://www.naturalfamilyonline.com/go/index.php/15/12-no-to-circumcision

http://www.circumcision.org/foreskin.htm

http://artofmanliness.com/2009/02/22/clip-the-tip-pointcounterpoint-on-male-circumcision/

And really, it isn't harder to keep clean...

Esteam · 2012-02-16T01:51:13+00:00

Yes, I'm glad I wasn't circumcised.

iongantas · 2012-02-16T04:31:32+00:00

If you are circumcising a willing participant who has given their permission (not parents or anyone else's, that persons) you are performing a stupid but not immoral act, unless it is necessary for something like phimosis (sp?), in which case it is probably not stupid. If you perform one without the explicit consent of the person being circumcised, you are performing and immoral act, which I'd probably have to say is worse than rape.

lalicat · 2012-02-16T10:08:03+00:00

i would refuse to perform that procedure, same thing with an abortion i would just flat out refuse ... both are horrible procedures, someone else can learn - not me

roharareddit · 2012-02-16T10:56:18+00:00

Uh, yea, it is.

Belgian_Rofl · 2012-02-16T12:24:05+00:00

On adults consenting to the procedure? Not in the least!

pronida · 2012-02-16T13:40:58+00:00

Well in western Australia, the doctors at hospital refuse to perform them. As far as I know, you have to go to a plastic surgeon here. Which I think is great

Guns-Cats-andRonPaul · 2012-02-16T17:21:59+00:00

IF there are medical reasons, or if the male wants it, I don't see why it would be wrong.

Also I don't get why people always connect male circumcision to female, they are insanely different. I feel like the male equivalent of female circumcision would be if circumcision meant cutting off the entire head of the penis.

VadenKhale · 2012-02-18T01:10:01+00:00

So, guy with a circumcision here. I have no problem that I had one as a child. I don't see it as a mutilation, it works just fine, and in America for the most part it's sort of "the norm."

That being said, if/when I have a son, I don't plan on having him circumcised. Most of the reasons for it (he won't look like his dad, other kids will make fun of him, etc...) how often were these people looking at each other's dicks?! Seriously, the only way I know if my dad or my friends were circumcised is if it comes up in conversation. And when I was in high school there were zero fucks given about it, so I don't buy the schoolkids reasoning either. If it's for religious or cultural reasons, I don't really have a problem with it. It's a choice up to the parents.

Alternative question for those saying that the resident in question should try to opt out of these procedures on ethical grounds: what are your opinions on doctors refusing abortions because of their personal beliefs?

Sphere123 · 2012-02-16T05:12:56+00:00

Don't you take an oath to do no harm or something like that? Wouldn't you consider unnecessary, potentially dangerous cosmetic surgery on an infant harmful? Tell the people who require you to do circumcisions that you think performing circumcisions is highly immoral, and make all the points we're making. Surely educated doctors, people with PhDs, are at least capable of seeing how the practice might be viewed as barbaric. Better yet, show them this thread.

dollyknot · 2012-02-16T09:04:41+00:00

I started thinking about this subject, after watching Michael Moore's documentary 'Bowling for Columbine' where he makes the point that gun ownership in Canada, approaches gun ownership in the US, yet gun crime in the states is far higher, why? So I started digging around in nationmaster as regards national statistics and male circumcision rates and this caught my eye. The majority of men are circumcised in the following nations.

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Circumcision-(male)

Afghanistan, Albania, Algeria, Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Benin, Cameroon, Chad, Comoros, Djibouti, Egypt, Eritrea, Gabon, Gambia, Ghana, Guinea, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Kazakhstan, Kenya, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Madagascar, Malaysia, Maldives, Mali ,Mauritania, Nigeria, Niger, Pakistan, Philippines, Qatar, Republic of the Congo, Samoa,Tonga, Saudi Arabia, Sierra Leone, Somalia, South Africa, South Korea, Sudan, Syria, Tajikistan, Tunisia, Turkey, Turkmenistan, United States of America, Uzbekistan, Vanuatu and Yemen.

My contention is that it does not change the individual that much, but changes society.

The foreskin contains around 20,000 nerve endings which plumb into the brain's limbic system, the limbic system is the conductor of the brain's emotional orchestra. The foreskin is actually an organ of the brain not an organ of the genitalia, which is why you can remove it with seemingly no effect, especially when it is done when a little baby. The emotional effect is not that noticeable in the individual, but collectively explains why American society is so violent and has overflowing prisons.

My hypothesis is that it might make the male ever so slightly more narrow minded, which would explain the very puzzling fact that the majority of Americans do not agree with evolution. We are mammals, all male mammals have a foreskin. It would be easy to think there was no problem with circumcision if you disagreed with evolution. The main point being, I have a foreskin and have a degree of narrow mindedness, and there is probably circumcised men out there who are less narrow minded than I am, if I had, had my foreskin removed when a little baby I would probably be even more narrow minded than I already am. And likewise somebody who was circumcised when a baby, if they had not have been circumcised, probably would be slightly less narrow minded.

The only way to check this out, is to find a couple who would normally practice circumcision and are about to have identical twin boys and pay them big dollar to not circumcise one of them.

People go on about how crazy the chess player Bobby Fischer was, without knowing what caused his somewhat strange behaviour, the reason he hated America and the Jews was a classic case of alienation.

What is not widely known about Fischer is, he was not circumcised, which is why he said he was not Jewish. One can imagine him in the locker room being teased for not being sic normal.

One of the biggest reasons why this somewhat strange practice continues is, men who have had their foreskins removed when tiny babies, have no subjective notions of what a foreskin actually is.

More and more males are restoring their foreskins and are saying how much better things are with a foreskin.

http://foreskin-restoration.net/

Bob10001 · 2012-02-16T01:43:11+00:00

It may be considered wrong if you have a conscientious objection to the procedure. What do you think about circumcisions? Is there a religious (or non) that would stop you from performing circumcisions? If you do have an objection regarding circumcision you should bring it up with residency adviser and/or school administration.

mcechaser · 2012-02-16T10:31:40+00:00

As sOmeone who considers themselves moderately femininist, I can fathom why any parent would openly wish to see their child harmed. I think it's archaic that people within our society believe it necessary to mutilate the male gentialia with claims of "health" or "religion". Campaigns are needed to raise awareness that this indeed is compatible to female gential mutilation and needs to be stopped.

HighBeamHater · 2012-02-16T09:35:13+00:00

Yes, it is.

2012-02-16T15:10:34+00:00

If you want one, go for it. But, don't force that decision upon someone else.

eatspam88 · 2012-02-16T15:17:13+00:00

I would refuse to do them on moral and ethical grounds.

AloysiusC · 2012-02-17T12:38:41+00:00

Yes. If you do this anyway you are violating the Hippocratic Oath.

PissedOffNinjaBum · 2012-02-18T10:56:11+00:00

I think the person has to consent before he is circumcised. It's not the parent's or doctors decision to make the call, it's the person's regarding their penis. And what about circumcision of the girl?

rajanala83 · 2012-06-18T15:01:58+00:00

Can a child sue their parents or physician for getting a non-therapeutic circumcision as an infant? I mean, after turning independent? Makes me wonder if someone tried.

hamsterwheel · 2012-02-16T06:09:56+00:00

I honestly dont care at all. I was circumcised and it doesnt bother me. I guess the consent thing comes into play honestly, which pretty much would end circumcision outside christian and jewish religions because nobody would want to remember their dick being sliced. But personally I dont care that I was. I guess its unethical when all things are considered though.

AnonymousChicken · 2012-02-16T08:28:41+00:00

Imagine that the male foreskin is a pinky toe. Left pinky toe, if you need to choose one.

I don't think I need to elaborate any further.

2012-02-16T23:45:34+00:00

im glad im circumcised. all im sayin.

Luriker · 2012-02-16T04:25:09+00:00

In practice, I'm would label myself an MRA and I have no problem with circumcision. I'm pretty sure it's not a part of my religion, and while the risks are scary, and the benefits are nonexistent, I feel it's just the way to be. That said, in theory, the idea that circumcision is forced on infants, but telling a woman that any part of her body has to go through or is restricted from any given practice she wants is a personal offense against her is fucking ridiculous.

OThomson · 2012-02-16T13:01:21+00:00

I find people's harsh opinions of circumcision here very strange. I am very pleased I was circumcised young.

MorallyBankrupt · 2012-02-16T08:14:04+00:00

No. I was circumcised routinely as an infant. I don't believe it has ever bothered me nor have I wished to see what having a foreskin is like. Either do it or don't; it's like deciding whether to wear your hat with the bill forwards or backwards.

muppetteer · 2012-02-16T03:05:20+00:00

To be quite honest, if you're having difficulty with this thought concept / decision, then the medical profession possibly isn't for you.

McDonalds is just down the road, ask for an application form next time you get lunch.

Title	Is it wrong to do circumcisions?
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	78
Comments	246
Date	February 16, 2012 1:03 AM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/prkg2/is_it_wrong_to_do_circumcisions/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/is-it-wrong-to-do-circumcisions.1027585 https://theredarchive.com/post/1027585

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