At what point does being caring and courteous become a turnoff to the average woman?

Yupperdoodledoo · 2023-04-25T15:40:25+00:00

Being caring is never going to be a turnoff. Being insecure and trying to compensate by kissing ass is a different story.

gofigure62 · 2023-04-25T14:09:49+00:00

An overprotective man, is typically a weak and controlling man that tries to keep everyone and everything away from the woman that he's dating. I can't stand men who constantly say "I don't want you doing XYZ because I'm afraid of other men.". I'm not going to sit in a box because a man is afraid of what other men will do to me. I exercise my first amendment rights. I know how to defend myself, I don't like or respect men that pretend their intention is to "protect" a woman, when in reality their intention is to squirrel the woman away like a nut.
I don't like when a man is inconsiderate of my time and space. I don't want someone who is up my ass all the time and doesn't let me breath. I think it's rude to monopolize someone's time, especially if there is awareness of a persons life obligations. This is also a controlling behavior. Men will pout and whine that they "just want to spend time together" and use guilt to manipulate women away from their friends, family, hobbies, and opportunities. Commonsense has to exist, and quality partner would be supportive of their partners quality social attachments, hobbies, and opportunities. There's a difference between being a support system and a burden.

Granted this isn't something that only males do, however this discussion is regarding heterosexual relationships from a woman's perspective. I believe that typically men are disproportionately isolated compared to women and fail to emotionally regulate the excess stimulation that comes from one person being their primary social contact for everything. Men get overwhelmed by this, and instead of learning how to regulate themselves or build the skills to deal with their complex feelings and emotions. They resort to toddler like solutions to getting the outcomes that they want.

For example. A man feels panicked and alone when his wife/girlfriends goes out because she's the only or primary social contact that he has. Instead of learning how to self sooth or adopt a healthy perspective that's normal, they attempt to control their wife/girlfriend to minimize how often they're away or with other people.

or A man feels over joyed, safe, entertained, and comfortable when his wife/girlfriends is around. When she's at work, with friends, family, or alone doing a hobby, he doesn't like the feelings, thoughts, and isolation that occurs when he's not near her. Instead of self regulating, or dealing with this experience in a healthy way, the man resorts to a toddler like solution to nag, guilt, and browbeat his wife/girlfriend into staying around him more for his own comfort. He'll convince her to work fewer hours, take less classes, spend less time with friends/family to fill and soothe his emotional needs.

TLDR: I'm unattracted to men who lack emotional intelligence and confuse their self prioritized intentions as "good" intentions towards their wife/girlfriend. Typically these behaviors are controlling, manipulative, and even abusive. However the man typically lacks the social intelligence and self introspection to understand their behavior will ultimately lead to rejection. Since they're incapable of sharing the perspective of their mate or anticipating the needs or wants of their mate.

eefr · 2023-04-25T08:24:49+00:00

I can't speak for other women, but I'll speak for myself.

I am not looking for "protection" from a man; my life isn't especially dangerous.
Anything that curtails my autonomy in the name of "protection" is overprotective/controlling and I do not want it. Stay in your lane.
I like affection and tenderness.
I do not like pressure to be tender and affectionate before our feelings have had time to develop; we should progress towards displaying deeper feelings at roughly the same pace, and take our cues from each other.
I agree that it would be exhausting to have a partner try to check in on me 10 times per day. That veers into controlling territory. I like sending texts when we are apart but be reasonable.
I do not care for a "traditionally masculine edge."
I do not care for chivalry either, which usually comes with a patina of patronizing behaviour. Just treat me like a normal person that you like and care about.

lvlupkitten · 2023-04-25T09:38:04+00:00

When a man becomes too clingy, needy and overbearing. When I feel like he's relying on my positive response to carry his mood for the day. When I feel like the only thing he has going on in his life is trying to suck up to me. When he has no other points of social contact. When he also comes across as feminine, having no backbone, or being a weak doormat or pushover. When he comes off as trying way too hard for something I don't need him to try for. Happened to me recently with a FWB, I cut it off after about 6 weeks because it was too much to handle

TermAggravating8043 · 2023-04-25T10:31:20+00:00

Firstly, I don’t want protection, I don’t know any women that does, I’m actually finding it a red flag when they say they’ll protect because statistically they are the most likely cause to hurt me.

Affection and tenderness is nice but it’s really got to be appropriate to how long we’ve been seeing each other

In regardless to chivalry etc, I’ve noticed that unless it’s a natural part of who the guy is this will fade will time and he’ll start being more chivalry to others before me, it’s just an act as far as I’m concerned

Existing-Sign4804 · 2023-04-25T13:40:32+00:00

When it’s fake or bordering on codependency. There are naturally kind and courteous men, those don’t bother me. There are men who are faking it to get sex. It’s way more obvious than they think, and they will turn into complete assholes once they get what they want. And then there are the ones who are so desperate that it’s clearly going to turn into codependency if you allow it to continue.

AstronautLoveShack · 2023-04-25T14:10:12+00:00

Women WANT to be with men who are caring and courteous, but there are limits too. It becomes a turnoff when he is patronizing. It is a turnoff he treats me like I am too weak or helpless or stupid to take care of myself. It becomes a turnoff when he calls 20 times in an hour while I am out with my girl friends. It becomes a turnoff if he treats me like a delicate flower incapable of having impure thoughts in the bedroom, or expects me to be ladylike and pristine 100% of the time. I’m an adult, just like you. Treat me as such.

januaryphilosopher · 2023-04-25T09:59:25+00:00

At a point most men aren't in sight of reaching and don't need to worry about. Most could do with being more caring, and in a way that's actually caring, not just infantilising or controlling.

Sophiatab · 2023-04-25T13:22:17+00:00

Never. Being caring and courteous is never a turnoff. Expecting sex as a result of basic decent behavior is one of the biggest turnoffs however.

IllustriousMost2351 · 2023-04-25T07:52:01+00:00

If you are unattractive

2023-04-25T14:54:21+00:00

Just make it clear that you’re going to be kind and caring to other women if she doesn’t reciprocate. Then she will find it really attractive. Just don’t focus too much on one girl and you’ll never get the “one-itis” and probably won’t act too needy in the first place.

CookieDoeHo · 2023-04-25T14:59:26+00:00

Us women are highly intuitive and can sense any “neediness” without you doing anything inherently needy. Have genuine interest in the women while ACTUALLY maintaining not “needing” or attaching to her at all.

Simply know and be confident that you are valuable and interesting.. without her validation.. and believe me, she will pick up on that. Don’t be cold, aloof or rude because again.. we can just pick up on the vibe that you are being douchey and that can be awfully confusing when we actually like you otherwise.

There should just be a point where the girl indicates to you a mutual interest, respect and attraction and then you just dance along with that.. without ever being controlling or needy of it. It should just grow and evolve from there.

Ohms2North · 2023-04-25T12:27:10+00:00

Ironing her sanitary pads

Consistent_Ad3181 · 2023-04-25T14:12:25+00:00

I tend to find there are two parallel lines, one is what women say they want, and the other is what they either end up with or go for. There is generally quite a big gap between these.

Taohumor · 2023-04-25T17:32:22+00:00

When hes not attractive to her.

My last relationship the day after we became a couple i had a dream that she died and cried all morning like a bitch until she texted me. I told her this and she gushed about what a sweetheart I was. This same woman got off to hardcore bdsm so apparently even a simp can give a woman an orgasm if shes into you, can literally spit on her and call her trash and she'll sit there and piss herself in ecstasy.

Attraction is everything until hormones wear off and she starts thinking more about utility. Now all the sexy shit is gross because your reptile brain isnt vetoing all decision making anymore. I didnt fill beta bux, and she wanted someone who would eventually pay her rent. Relationship is dead as I'm losing sexual interest too cuz the above scene gets her off, not me(all real simps do bdsm cuz it gets women off).

If she had a brain she would just tell a dude if hes texting too much or whatever. It's not hard and a dude who listens like they claim they want will listen, simple geometry.

The bottom line is none of it matters. If she gives you bs this early over minutia like you arent texting her "the right way", it's all downhill from there. If she likes you shes happy when you talk to her, that simple.

AutoModerator · 2023-04-25T07:09:24+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "CMV" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

elsugga · 2023-04-25T14:19:30+00:00

I don’t care about courtesy as long as it’s not geninune. I’ve had pretty good dates where the man was super affectionate and demonstrative. Also very courteous but next thing you know you I got ghosted without any explanation. I just need the man to have genuine interest

Safinated · 2023-04-25T14:28:44+00:00

Much of this confusion could be avoided by communicating, and also accepting that many people are immature and incompatible

In other words, speak up, grow up, say no and move on

iassureyouimreal · 2023-04-25T16:53:43+00:00

Usually holding a door

toasterchild · 2023-04-25T17:16:18+00:00

It becomes a problem at the same point being aloof does... when it negatively impacts my life.

Helping me when I've expressed need of help is awesome, helping me when i can do it myself just because I'm a woman is not awesome...

Answering questions with what you think i want to hear or what you think will get you the outcome you prefer (usually to avoid momentary disagreement) is not at all a positive. This road leads straight to Resentment Town. Its the number one negative "Nice guy" trait that needs to die. Being honest about your own feelings and opinions is so much better even if we disagree. I don't want to date someone i always agree with, i want to date a REAL person.

Overprotection is usually just a sign of massive relationship insecurity, it's a red flag like no other and one of the strongest predictors of physical abuse. So hard no, nothing about this is positive.

MistyMaisel · 2023-04-25T17:17:52+00:00

This is all about communication. If she's telling you that you're being too much, even in potentially subtle ways, you just have to back off. It isn't rocket science, just believe your partner if they say you're being a little much and be a little less.

Keep in mind, a lot of this can be attributed to where the relationship is at. Did you just meet? Have you been going out a month? Have you been together 6 months? Have you been together several years. The longer you're together, the more you should know each other, your habits, what is liked and disliked, and the more comfortable you should feel being adoring and protective. But doing that after a month is wild and tends to reveal a very needy nature.

Ask yourself why you're doing certain things. Is it to express love, affection, and adoration? Or is it because you feel jealous, controlling, insecure, and possessive? Keep in mind, it's fine to feel both positive and negative emotions, but the more a woman senses this is about the latter and not the former, the more likely we are to bolt because it feels like the walls are closing in. Are you expressing affection and adoration with an agenda? (Like making them like you, getting sex, quelling your anxieties). The more your affection seems to come with an agenda, the less trustable it is. Kind of like how lots of guys see cuddling as foreplay to sex, if cuddling is just a precursor to boning, most women won't enjoy it the way they would if it was just overt affection and a desire to be closer because that's about you, not about her.

When you're behaving in protective or attentive ways, are you treating her like an adult or a child? Adults recognize each other as largely competent and self-sustaining beings that do not and should not necessarily be told what to do. So are you telling or asking? Again, it's fine to tell sometimes, but the more often you're telling another adult what to do, the more likely it is they will become resentful and bolt. Especially early on. If my boyfriend told me not to go to a certain part of town at night because the first month we were together, I woulda been ticked. Now after two years, I take him seriously even if I think he's a bit bananas because I know it's only coming from love.

If you want a good rule of thumb, check in at the beginning and end of the day normally (good morning text and goodnight text) and then only check in beyond that if the situation would warrant it. (Like you're making plans, having a bad day, or something akin to that.) I think asking for a text to let you know they got home safely is fine and sweet. After that, it's fine to send a sweet kissy text chaotically just to show you randomly thought of them, but it should be sporadic through-out the week.

It's fine to convey jealousy, just not constantly all the time and in a way where you expect her to unreasonably accommodate your jealous feelings. (She shouldn't be trying to trigger you obviously), but I see men get jealous and then think their female friend should like drop traditions she's had for decades or stop being friends with a dude she's known since they were kids. Wild shit. The moment you're making those asks, you're revealing that your jealousy owns you and you want it to own her too. No bueno.

Strong opinions are great, being able to compromise them and soften, especially for your woman is generally vital. You can't be a pushover, but you can't be a wall. You've gotta be a gate, capable of opening, but capable of keeping out the undeserving.

I dunno exactly what you mean by masculine edge, but I assume you mean not being a crybaby lunatic. Which yes, that tends to not pair well with jealousy and adorating for the reasons above.

Diamond-Breath · 2023-04-25T21:54:52+00:00

I love protective and chivalrous men, my boyfriend is practically Prince Charming (looks like him too) and it's so attractive. He opens doors, opens my water bottles, helps me when I'm struggling to cut a piece of meat, he gets things that are too high for me (I'm very tiny, 4'10"), he always pays for the dates/vacations, gets defensive when he feels something is wrong in whatever place we're in, ugh he's so badass and a complete sweetheart. No one can say anything bad about him, he's an angel on Earth and I'm so lucky to be with him. I probably smother him with tons of love though lol. I need to brag about him because he's amazing, he deserves everything good that comes his way.

Rumin8ting_ · 2023-04-25T22:23:39+00:00

When it gets pushy and desperate. Constant onslaught of attention and texts freaks me out because the guy seems nuts. Otherwise it’s lovely 🥰

Ethnopharmacist · 2023-04-26T03:02:31+00:00

Summming up...:

my experience tells me that:

"caring" for them means something like: put them first place and never let them down, being attentive and pay attention to their occasional whims

and being "courteous" means doing some details that they DON'T EXPECT so they should be surprises, not something too obvious.

all the rest on your part would be seen as unnecessary so more like a failed way to gain their attention to win sex or something so it seems overprotective... overwhatever.

RocinanteCoffee · 2023-04-26T09:11:54+00:00

People are different.

I like a lot of time alone, not to be treated with kid gloves, and not to be coddled, particularly by a lover. I am not interest in most common romantic gestures.

My older sister likes romance, devotion, and public displays of affection as well as special ceremony for love and affection with her husband. She likes to be treated gently, and likes dancing in the kitchen with her husband every Friday night.

You'll find no two women are exactly the same even where there may be overlap. My sisters and I aren't too far away from each other in age, have the same parents and upbringing and grew up in the same city. Yet we all have different levels of what you might call courtesy and caring that we welcome in a date.

Think_gawd · 2023-04-26T12:32:20+00:00

Any discussion on this topic INSTANTLY devolves into gaslighting people who are naturally considerate to everyone. The problem always becomes them being weak or deplorable or something insane for thinking about others first. Look at the first comment on this post it's ACTUALLY crazy lol the war against people trying to spread good is nuts on this rock. In short, it doesn't pay dividends in the majority of human relationships Shockingly.

Cupcakelover1985 · 2023-04-26T14:43:03+00:00

If she’s emotionally wounded. Like her primary parent or both parents treated her like crap and she internalized it and never healed. Any point. Emotional abuse is her comfort zone and she’ll feel she only deserves to be treated like crap and be uncomfortable if you treat her kindly.

If she’s emotionally healthy then it will be a turnoff if you turn into a complete yes man that never has any opinions and always does what she says. She’ll want give and take and if you’re only giving and never taking it’ll make her feel like you’re her doormat not her partner. So you can be kind and courteous but remember your own feelings and desires too.

If she’s narcissistic or looking for someone to exploit then never. You’ll never be able to be kind and courteous enough as she’ll always want more and more from you.

Dstar538888 · 2023-04-29T07:27:47+00:00

That depends… are you being “caring” because you want something in return?? Or are you being caring because you’re genuinely a caring man??

Title	At what point does being caring and courteous become a turnoff to the average woman?
Author	StaticNocturne
Upvotes	29
Comments	101
Date	April 25, 2023 7:09 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/12ybgb4/at_what_point_does_being_caring_and_courteous/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/at-what-point-does-being-caring-and-courteous.1216729 https://theredarchive.com/post/1216729

Comments