Since when did requiring physical attraction for a romantic relationship make you superficial?

Highonuppers · 2023-06-07T22:15:26+00:00

Physical attraction is and always be important, period. This is not arguable.

LarsBohenan · 2023-06-08T00:48:16+00:00

Since so many couples are unattractive and ppl are attracted to good-looking ppl, something doesnt add up. My guess is, like almost everything in ppls lives - they settle. Ppl settle for shit jobs, shit lives, this includes partners.

Greedy_Parsnip1339 · 2023-06-08T02:27:29+00:00

It's mostly women that seem to be pushing this narrative, most men know physical attractiveness is important for both men and women, and that women have higher standard for men to be deemed attractive

But whenever people start to talk about women's standards a lot of woman just come in saying "we just want a nice, emotionally intelligent man that can take care of himself", " It's just your personality", "Height/Muscles/etc doesnt matter all that much" etc. Women constantly oversell the importance of personality to men while only finding a subset of men attractive. So some men start thinking physical attractiveness isn't all that important.

Wide-Illustrator2906 · 2023-06-07T23:18:10+00:00

Physical attraction is often downplayed by women and society( for whatever reasons) when it comes to men so you now have delusional men who actually believe looks aren't Important and that you can actually make up for your poor looks with other qualities

InjectAdrenochrome · 2023-06-07T22:20:40+00:00

A lot of the pill ideologies were created to explain men's dating failures and assure men it isn't their fault. And often, they actually did nothing wrong. But if someone isn't attracted to you, there's almost nothing you can do to change their mind. If you are like middling levels of attractive (6-7/10 for the sake of clarity) you have to have a good personality to win them over. If you are objectively attractive (8+/10) you won't have as much trouble at all. You can just be yourself and people will like you.

This is the main issue with the bluepill. It always advises hitting the gym and getting a haircut, but there's no specifics about what you need to achieve there. For instance, being at 15% bodyfat or less will bring out your bone structure. If you have a large forehead, try a fringe style haircut. If you have big ears, have hair long enough to cover them, et cetera. Honestly I think lifts are a good way to boost your height and no I don't think it's cheating.

There are tons of guides online about how to do your makeup and what clothes will suit which body types for women, so improving your looks as a woman is easy because the how to is a click away.

Men's physical appearance is starting to become a big deal nowadays, and I see a lot of "looksmaxing" advice that leads men into the inc*l community. I went on the looksmax website and in between all the racism and sexism I saw this young boy who was 16 trying to water fast for 2 weeks in order to get "lean enough" to ask a girl out. I was like holy shit this is tragic, this young teenage boy is starving himself and at risk for developing anorexia. I also lurk on ED subs (curiosity) and there are a lot more men and boys on there than there would have been 10 years ago. It is actually disturbing how these insecurities have spread over to men and boys and how willing they are to become unhealthy just for aesthetics

Eschew_Sloth-232 · 2023-06-07T22:15:00+00:00

It's not superficial but the gaslighting of men has led to a backlash. Perfectly normal men with great careers, hobbies, social lives, emotional maturity are told something is wrong with them or that women can sense that there is something off about them, when the blunt truth is that they are not sexy enough and women care about looks as much as if not more than men.

You often hear women repeat looks get you in the door but personality keeps you around. Well most men don't reach the attraction threshold to even get their foot in the door. If you are sexy enough all those so called standards; emotional intelligence, kindness, good social circle etc go out of the window. It's the narrative of women's attraction being somehow more virtuous than men's which doesn't match the reality of what everyone can see that comes across as superficial.

Stunning-Potato-1984 · 2023-06-08T00:51:14+00:00

I feel like growing up I was simultaneously fed a bunch of conflicting narratives. There's a handsome prince, but it's really personality that matters and not saying this made you a shallow bitch. There were movies where Adam Sandler and TV shows where Kevin James got hot wives but the female main character needed a makeover before she got the guy of her dreams. The jock was an asshole and the sensitive alternative guy was the real prize.

So all this shit flew around and then you realize wait a minute I should be physically attracted to my partner and they should be attracted to me and there's nothing shallow and wrong about it. That just because you find someone hot doesn't make them or you a bad person by default.

People aren't Hollywood archetypes, they're complex. The "sensitive" alternative guy tries to get girls drunk and take advantage of them. The varsity football player and prom king goes out of his way to support the bullied autistic kid in your class so that everyone stops and actually starts including him.

eefr · 2023-06-07T22:52:41+00:00

Since never? It's superficial to only care about appearance, but it's fine to want to be physically attracted to your partner. All of us want that.

anonymousUser1SHIFT · 2023-06-08T02:41:50+00:00

I think what your asking is "why do men have an issue with women rejecting the because they don't find them attractive".

The answer to that is women tend to be way way way way way way way more picky and will cut people for way way way way way less things.

For example, (oh don't get your panties in a knot it's just an example). If I'm not going to reject someone for how tall they are (given that they are between 3ft to 8ft) then I find is shallow that lots of women reject men for being 5'11" and not 6'. Like your going to throw the whole potential relationalship away because they are an inch to short, is a brain scratcher for me and makes me think their values are completely misaligned with image (the shallow part) and not a healthy relationship (which is the deep part that requires the personalities to match).

Again the height is only an example that I used because, even though 6ft may not be common, a hight requirement for men is extremely common. I will not even humor you if you start squawking about height.

But this goes even further for it can be about a lot of other physical traits, where the guy isn't even unattractive to her, just not what she wants in the looks part.

But because we love string up shit here. Let's take a look at the group of men have judge women in the same way women judge men. These are men who reject and talk about how big womens boobs and butts need to be, how much BMI they should have, what they should wear, talk shit because she wasn't lady like enough. I think you see where this is going and I believe most women call them misogynists or incels.

And before you start getting on me because "women don't behave that way". They don't, then find an average looking guy and tell me all the reason why you don't find him attractive. This is why when people talk about womens attraction to men there is no gray area it's always "he is either your type or not your type".

On the other hand women hate it for one of two reasons. They feel excluded and objectified when men don't like them because they are hot enough. They feel like the men are rejecting for looks and not caring about their personality.

The second reason is largely women have they self worth and value tied to their physical appearance, so when they get judged poorly on it and they take it as a personal attack...

(For those of you who want to argue the last point, I would say take a look at the female empowerment movement and how women behaved to feel empowered. It all amounted and still does to this day "look sexy and tell men and there eyes to fuck off". Well I would argue that this would have been empowering at one point in time, especially when there was a lot of control over a womans image. That isn't really the case anymore.)

SorryEm · 2023-06-08T00:40:37+00:00

It's fine but if your standards are less than 1% of the population for your age group something needs to change.

Anxious_Adult123 · 2023-06-07T23:31:40+00:00

While being attracted to someone physically is not something superficial and nobody should be shamed for it but something that it felt uneasy with was this virtue signalling by many woman irl that "we don't care about looks!". Obviously, since people are anonymous in reddit and hence more honest, never seen this attitude much. While the above statement looks bening, there is certain intricacies that follow if. When they say this shit over and over like it is truth, a lot of less attractive guys like myself have this feeling that "then it must be our personality or soft skills" which are then reinforcement by virgin shaming. Hence while admitting physical appearance are important make one only human, people should stop this "we don't care about looks" bullshit!

SwinginPastMyKnees_ · 2023-06-07T23:23:16+00:00

If appearances are the ONLY requirement you have in a partner, then that's very superficial. And that will bite you in the ass since looks will decrease and you're going to feel more unsatisfied in your relationship as it progresses.

I agree with you in that people seem to want men to not factor in looks when looking for a partner. Gaslighting and shaming men (e.g., "real men like curves") in addition to pushing fat female models while keeping muscular underwear models for men's clothing. Dating apps have mostly removed the ability to filter by weight because we can't hurt the feelings of the average woman. Meanwhile ability to filter by height is still there.

Flightlessbirbz · 2023-06-07T22:51:19+00:00

Physical attraction being a prerequisite is a given for men, but apparently makes women superficial.lol

AstronautLoveShack · 2023-06-07T22:02:41+00:00

Women actually being attracted to their sexual partners excludes some men, and apparently we can’t have that.

SteelFox144 · 2023-06-07T23:18:58+00:00

When someone else wants to belittle your relationship choices.

JNRoberts42 · 2023-06-07T21:52:01+00:00

Since unattractive men decided that women don’t have the right to admit that physical attraction is important. Apparently frustrated men hold women to standards they cannot keep.

Excellent_Badger123 · 2023-06-08T02:18:58+00:00

I’ve approached men that were extremely physically attractive to me and been completely turned off by what came out of their mouths within the first few minutes of chat. Cut and run. Swing and a miss. My right to do so.

I’ve been approached by men who I wouldn’t necessarily pick based upon their looks who’ve absolutely dazzled me with their wit, charisma, integrity and emotional depth. I don’t feel like I “settled” if I choose to date or mate with them. I feel like I won the lottery.

Epiphanic_Eros · 2023-06-08T02:37:56+00:00

Attraction is essential. But people who focus too much on looks miss the big picture — it’s really more about smell

caption291 · 2023-06-08T02:50:17+00:00

The belief that some level of physical attraction is necessary for romantic relationships does not make you superficial.

What makes you superficial is what that level is for you.

I think this is a motte and Bailley. The motte being "physical attraction is a necessary prerequisite for a romantic relationship?"

and the bailey being whatever level of physical attraction is required.

edit: The "you" is general. I'm not saying you specifically are superficial.

purpleunicorn888 · 2023-06-08T03:42:28+00:00

I used to think that wanting physical attraction in a relationship when everything else is good/exceptional was shallow. But a YouTuber I love said that it’s necessary in a relationship and I subscribe to that now. Physical attraction is a must. I’m demisexual so I think I’m used to not having physical attraction but starting to like someone.

shonenhikada · 2023-06-08T05:34:10+00:00

Well that all depends on a few things:

a) Is the level of physical attraction you place on a partner at a greater standard you have for yourself? For example, a girl who is skinny fat being physically attracted to only guys with six pack abs.

b) Does your physical attraction eliminate a large percentage of the population and will not affect how this person treats you? E.g. You only date guys that are 6'0"+, Caucasian and with good looking faces.

c) Do you care so much about physical attraction of your partner that you are not willing to compromise if other non-physical aspects of the relationship can be met?

D) Would you leave your partner if they fail to maintain the physical attraction that you so desire for them? E.g. a girl becoming fat, a guy losing muscle mass or losing their hair.

If two or more of these are checked off then yeah, you might be superficial.

crow_in_your_garden · 2023-06-08T07:54:24+00:00

Requiring physical attraction is not making you superficial.

But requiring super narrow characteristics could be.

For example if you want someone having more or less a certain height or being taller than you that is fine. If you absolutely want someone who is taller than 6', that is superficial.

In addition, requiring physical attraction is not superficial, requiring the hottest you can get certainly is, because you could have a perfectly good relationship with someone who is attractive but who isn't the hottest.

A guy saying I only want a girlfriend with huge boobs and ass, even if he found other women attractive would be equally superficial.

Finally, there is a huge body positivity movement for women. Men just wanted anorexic models, slim blond women with big boobs, we are changing the image of women to make all women more apparent and attractive to men. Great. But whose women agree that media as well modified what they thought was attractive, and whose women is working in it to become less superficial?

eyewave · 2023-06-08T08:43:54+00:00

I think what men dislike is when the rejection based on looks comes with an attitude.

It is hurtful when you try an approach and the girl acts all disgusted and offended, as if "ew fucking slug, how do you even talk to me".

amber_day · 2023-06-08T10:10:04+00:00

I don’t really understand this. Most of the couples I know the girl is objectively more attractive and I don’t have an issue with that, they seem happy and I have bigger fish to fry.

I once made the mistake of dating a guy I didn’t find attractive but I fell down the mindset of thinking I should lower my standards in order to be with a nice guy. Big mistake. He was so insecure and neurotic the entire relationship was a disaster, and he then started trying to chip away at my own self esteem to boost himself up.

How many famous, gorgeous women have been cheated on by men far less attractive than them? In general I seem to notice women being mistreated by guys less attractive because they get insecure. If you’re going to be done dirty you’d rather have it be by someone attractive.

I’m now with someone I find extremely attractive, we’re both very secure in the relationship and have great chemistry, so my ‘unrealistic standards’ worked out great for me ✌🏼

Even-Equivalent · 2023-06-08T12:49:57+00:00

It doesn't make you superficial but fubnily enough physical attraction will get uou more chances than someone who isnt, with deal breakers like abuse, cheating, emotional unavailability etc. Men are guilty of this but many women virtue signal giving ugly people delusions.

If you're ugly you likely won't get break up sex and won't be missed especially physically. People get called superficial because being superficial likely means uou're a hypocrite (people are terrible at having a vocabulary/expressing and use buzz words like superficial

Pretty people get treated better and typically get more effort put into staying with them because they're pretty.

Some ugly people like me accept that but others who are hurt like to believe theres more substance to dating and love than looks, when it is a majority of what takes up dating.

LoopyPro · 2023-06-08T15:07:54+00:00

It almost feel like being gaslit

People are quick to say the you ONLY value looks, while most of the times there are more aspects like personality and character that make someone suitable for an LTR.

As a human you need to eat food, drink water, and breathe air respectively. Take away one of the three and you'll eventually die. Claiming that someone only values looks is as ridiculous as saying they are only interested in eating food and nothing else when they say they're hungry. Just because they have plenty of water and fresh air at that moment doesn't mean that they don't value it.

TheAvocadoSlayer · 2023-06-08T15:59:26+00:00

Ah no, physical attraction is very important. And I think personality is just as important too. Like you said, looks fade. I wouldn’t marry a cute guy with shit personality, because eventually, I’m going to be stuck with someone that’s probably not nice to grow old with.

MxMaster9907 · 2023-06-08T17:06:40+00:00

It’s not superficial, we all want to be attracted to our partners. With that being said, some people are clearly delusional about what they can realistically get.

If you believe you (let’s assume an average person) believe you can get a skinny 20 year old attractive virgin woman or a 6’4 attractive multimillionaire guy, sorry, you’re delusional.

womandatory · 2023-06-09T01:05:14+00:00

Of course it’s important. The problem occurs when a person has either unrealistic expectations, or it’s their only focus. Men and women can be just as guilty as each other for unrealistic expectations, but men are more often guilty of looks being their only focus.

RatchedAngle · 2023-06-07T23:43:54+00:00

Since most Americans are now medically obese, more and more people are adopting the “looks don’t matter” mindset because otherwise over half of Americans would be undateable and unmarriageable.

There are more and more people who are leaning toward asexual marriages where the only thing that matters is the emotional connection. Because they’ve simply given up on sex. They’ve given up on their bodies. They view sex and sexual attraction as “childish” and completely separate from an emotional connection.

God forbid you want a marriage with both sexual attraction and an emotional connection. It’s as if these two things can’t coexist. You have to pick between one or the other.

People will say, “But looks won’t matter when you’re 60 and 70!”

Okay but I’m 26 right now, I have a healthy libido, and I want to be sexually attracted to my husband.

I don’t see how wrinkles 40 years from now justifies being overweight today. I don’t see how losing my libido at menopause somehow justifies being in a sexless marriage in my 20s. The arguments people use to explain this shit boggles my mind.

xcheshirecatxx · 2023-06-08T00:08:05+00:00

It's not. What doesn't make sense is stuff like 6ft minimum

BigVulvaEnergy · 2023-06-07T22:16:29+00:00

Who thinks being attracted to your partner is superficial?

asdf333aza · 2023-06-07T22:19:50+00:00

When that physical attraction is literally 0.01% of the population and you and every other person of your sex is screaming you refuse settle and cry about the guy you all want not wanting you.

M_LaSalle · 2023-06-08T03:42:33+00:00

Since when did requiring physical attraction for a romantic relationship make you superficial?

Ever since a large (In several senses of that term) percentage of American women decided that asking a woman no not be a disgusting sack of lard was asking too much

KayRay1994 · 2023-06-07T23:25:35+00:00

since RPers and incels realized financially providing alone won’t cut it and they now have to actually try

lolthankstinder · 2023-06-07T22:31:45+00:00

According to behavioral psychologist, director of Relationship Science at Hinge, and dating coach Logan Ury with a lot of background on behavioral psychology and economics research with behavioral economist Dan Ariely, a lot of people don’t really date correctly if their goal is to find lasting love. She details this in her (sensationally named) book How Not to Die Alone that I HIGHLY recommend.

While it includes a lot of useful information for men, especially for later stages of dating, I definitely feel like the early dating tips are directed more at women. This isn’t some salty incel, this is literally a WOMAN SCIENTIST genuinely trying to help other women find love with rationality, science, and research. Women tend have the most power and control to select/choose in the early phases of dating, and a lot of this has to do with “feelings” and “sparks” related to physical attraction. Unsurprisingly, Ury talks a lot about height, the spark, looking for a life partner over a prom date, giving people second dates and second chances, not treating dating like interviewing, and tons of other things that I feel women tend to do a lot.

In the case of men, I’ve definitely seen research showing that men tend to “care more about looks”. However, men also tend to find a lot of women attractive… so it kind of balances out. Thus, while it could definitely benefit some men, less advice about being superficial about looks is directed at men since men tend to naturally already be willing to go on a date with a lot of women.

If you feel like everyone keeps telling you you’re being superficial, maybe you are actually being superficial? It’s not necessarily that physical attraction is unimportant, but rather, you could be doing something like prematurely rejecting introverts based on “sparks” and “feelings” or something when those could appear if you just give them some more time.

DerayRevan · 2023-06-07T22:03:04+00:00

Physical attraction is the bare minimum she has to meet lol

Personality and all that shit can come second

AlmostKindaGreat · 2023-06-07T22:09:39+00:00

Since when did requiring physical attraction for a romantic relationship make you superficial?

Since forever? It does make you superficial. We're all superficial, to one degree or another. I don't judge anyone for it.

I don't see much difference in physical attractiveness standards for men and women. Not enough to fret about.

I think it's the best thing for men that more and more women are just coming out and saying that a good looking man is non-negotiable. There's still a lot of equivocating about this but the message is at least getting clearer that men need to max out their looks.

Enough_Chemistry3258 · 2023-06-08T00:36:05+00:00

When youre ugly and they arent. People always thinking they can get above their value.

MistyMaisel · 2023-06-08T01:46:13+00:00

So, hello, welcome to PPD.

The math is really simple:

If you have a penis, you cannot be expected to have more than the bare minimum of discipline over it (no rape, but murky sexual assault is allowed) and having or wanting an attractive partner is rational, logical, and completely reasonable/unemotional. It's default and super deep.

If you have a vagina, you are expected to be super disciplined about where your vagina goes because it represents not only your moral fortitude, but also men's. Nice thing, you can never rape or assault anyone no matter how young because men always want sex. Downside, having or wanting an attractive partner makes you a shallow, illogical, emotional, irrational, and unreasonable person. It's really reaching and not at all the default.

If you think this sounds ridiculous, it's probably because your head is too big from the 50 guys you know liking your Instagram pictures of your dog and feminism.

dumbbitchcas · 2023-06-08T03:50:07+00:00

If you’re a woman, always. My entire life it’s been demonized.

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WilliamWyattD · 2023-06-07T22:13:53+00:00

The point is leaning into physical attractiveness harder than you need to. Or having very high standards for sufficient physical attraction, often well beyond your own level.

LovesGettingRandomPm · 2023-06-08T01:11:00+00:00

I think when it becomes a value it becomes a measure and then you let yourself engage in discrimination based on those looks, examples like: "uhm I don't really like his/her nose" or "his/her hair looks way too messy here".

It's not that common but a person can shine brighter because of their personality and things like a nose or a hairstyle you can easily get used to or even start to like about them. Some people like your friends wouldn't have looked as good as they are now if you first met them just because first impressions are a little weird and uneasy, you don't have all your feelings about them straight yet and there is a getting used to period.

If you want to swipe right (or is it left) on tinder without reading their bio or talking to them go ahead but I think it's normal for us to think that is superficial too

bison5595 · 2023-06-08T01:15:19+00:00

There’s nothing wrong with requiring physical attraction, but people come on social making demands that they don’t qualify for and cry that they can’t find a relationship

Former_Molasses_7073 · 2023-06-08T01:22:01+00:00

The key thing here is, for men, physical attraction is like a diagonal line. The more you add, the more attention you get, in a linear manner, and at some point, a downward line ensues due to having too much of some qualities. With women, it's more of an exponential curve up.

Example https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-8164163d7c2defde7f80d2c61a56c602-lq

Women still give a 7 foot guy a lot more points then a 5'6" guy. But men would give the short woman a lot more points then the 7 foot woman.

slazengerx · 2023-06-08T03:26:23+00:00

Never apologise for valuing looks

Who's apologizing? I never do.

Gundam_net · 2023-06-08T04:10:54+00:00

Realizing today's 23 year old women are worse in personality than just 5 years ago.

UpbeatInsurance5358 · 2023-06-08T08:15:58+00:00

Only if you're female, apparently.

domdomdom333 · 2023-06-08T11:35:29+00:00

I'd say since that yellow bikini ad that started the outrage, when people would virtue signal that actually no one cares about one's body, and is actively oppressive if anyone advertises desirable bodies, some have taken this social mentality in themselves and morphed their beliefs around it.

itdoesnotmatterlolol · 2023-06-08T13:26:06+00:00

The issue had is women like to virtue signal and downplay the importance of looks. They will openly state that it's about personality and they don't care about looks. However studies on female mare selection show looks is the ONLY consideration especially when considering long term partners. It's seen as a hurdle that just be overcome for a male to be considered. This phenomenon isn't seen among men's choices, whom are more fair and reasonable in regards to female attractiveness.

This leads a lot of men who have not looks maxxed or got fit / muscular feeling lied to once they figure out how women behave when no one is looking.

Women push body positively within society but then won't date or consider less attractive males.

It's a double standard.

Men need to be told that the way they are now is not good enough. They need to be told they are fat, overweight, dress poorly, have shitty haircuts. But women say just be yourself which is the worst advice you can give a man because you gaslight him into believing the way he is now is OK.

MakeAGoodManBad · 2023-06-09T15:07:55+00:00

It is the textbook definition of superficial...

c0pk1ller · 2023-06-09T15:44:19+00:00

Dear Mark Zuckerberg. He's more beautiful than I could of ever written about, drawn, or imagined. God wouldn't create something so beautiful that when you look at it you go insane.

ragman75 · 2023-06-09T16:10:01+00:00

since women got control of the dating market

ryboto · 2023-06-10T01:32:41+00:00

I met a beautiful woman. Emotionally intelligent, compatible interests, beautiful facial features. Not at all attracted to her body. Am I suppose to suck it up?

RedBullfrog · 2023-06-10T08:51:55+00:00

Excellent post

I believe it is because people, generally speaking, don't do much about their looks. They will rather blame society, shaming and demand that they should be not only accepted, but found attractive, for "who they are".

Just one big lie we are telling ourselves. Combined with laziness

iGetBuckets3 · 2023-06-07T22:39:43+00:00

When the standards for physical attraction became unrealistic and delusional

GlasgaAccentfurYanks · 2023-06-08T01:47:41+00:00

Didn't you ever read Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets?

kukkle1111 · 2023-06-08T07:34:56+00:00

Never apologise for valuing looks

Alright. Then don’t be upset when the man you’re with leaves you for gaining weight.

Title	Since when did requiring physical attraction for a romantic relationship make you superficial?
Author	StaticNocturne
Upvotes	117
Comments	447
Date	June 7, 2023 9:47 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/143q3gp/since_when_did_requiring_physical_attraction_for/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/since-when-did-requiring-physical-attraction-for-a.1221588 https://theredarchive.com/post/1221588

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