Q4All: How do we fix this mess?

fetchyminx · 2017-05-15T13:35:56+00:00

Love is an illusion, fix yourself.

analt223 · 2017-05-15T12:56:08+00:00

1) Accept that your system (feminism, rp, etc) does not work for every human

2) Stop lying to men and women to make them feel good. Don't lie to men and say if you are unemployed/underemployed your dating and sex life will be fine. Dont lie to women and say that if you are overweight you will have numerous friday nights of fun, etc.

3) Take a fucking step back from the internet once in a while. You dont need constant facebook, constant youtube, netflix, steam video games, etc. The internet should be a supplemental piece, not "wake up to smart phone alarm clock, check facebook/email in bed, get ready for work/school with your music streaming service, netflix after work/school, bed"

TheGreasyPole · 2017-05-15T12:45:46+00:00

What does a reconciliation or "fixed" look like?

A recognition that male and female humans are fundamentally different in the sexual strategy sphere. (Men are NOT fundamentally women with a penis tacked in the front).

That because of this reality people who are describing these differences honestly will look "unequal", "unbalanced" or perhaps "unfair" to some.

And therefore an understanding is required that because we are describing differences in the sexual strategy sphere this does not, and should not, imply any "unequal" distribution of human rights in the political/legal/ethical sphere.

That because we are very different this doesn't mean the law should treat us as anything but moral equals.

In what ways would each gender compromise for greater mutual respect/contentment?

They should compromise by not thinking "the grass is greener" so that if (say) males "commonly do X" then it is necessary for females to do X to be equal. OR that just because "more guys have X and less women have X" this is in a sense a "male conspiracy against women to deny them X" (usually expressed as patriarchy).

AND (just to crystal clear) males have to stop doing the same (looking at female grass that appears greener) and demanding that and/or believing they don't have that because of "A Global Feminist Conspiracy to deny men X".

How do we get there?

By persuading RP and the political right-wing to stop being assholes.... and by persuading The BP world and the political left-wing to stop being fuckwits.

As you can imagine this is somewhat of a "Grand Project" that is a bit beyond one small internet discussion boards ability to pull off.

questioningwoman · 2017-05-15T13:30:18+00:00

Completely wipe out all cultural Marxist media and """"education"""" and it all goes back to normal

says_harsh_things · 2017-05-15T12:40:54+00:00

There is no gap between the genders.

There is only a gap between high value men and low value men.

Of all of the things that men wail about that women dont let them do, such as approach them in public, compliment their attractiveness, be sexually aggressive, have strong opinions, say 'locker room' things... high value attractive men have no problem doing any of that. Its encouraged. Its only low value men that are told that type of behavior is inappropriate.

I feel like the people that say "enjoy the decline" are trying to accept to themselves that they will never be in that top category of men that are encouraged to behave like men.

goatismycopilot · 2017-05-15T12:55:40+00:00

I have no plans to enjoy the decline. Gym. Dog. Yoga. Wine. I am good. And right now NHL playoffs, Smashville y'all.

exit_sandman · 2017-05-15T13:18:02+00:00

I think between TRP, PPD, and RPW/RPWi, we've got enough smart enough people here to fix Modern Love and reconcile (somewhat) between the genders.

So thought the agents of the (for lack of a better word) bluepill narrative in the last century, and look where it has gotten us.

jackandjill22 · 2017-05-15T15:13:40+00:00

at the pain of sounding silly :

be attractive, do not be unattractive

for all those who eat paint anyway - work on what you can change, do not spend time pining away over things you can not change.

RedLeg13 · 2017-05-16T02:46:19+00:00

Most people have no clue about this "debate" and go through their life seeking pleasurable moments as best as they can. Saying "enjoy the decline" is the same as saying "the end is nigh" and "the sky is falling." People are complex individuals that are prone to generalities and apathy. People have been getting friendzoned for millenia, chad has always existed, androgyny and sexual phreakiness are not new things. The reality is that now we all know a little more about it and we are more connected via the web.

TD:dr...we gon b fine

Pope_Lucious · 2017-05-15T16:51:01+00:00

We're a bunch of randos on the internet homie, we can't fix shit.

despisedlove2 · 2017-05-15T20:11:59+00:00

Not possible.

First of all, women don't love men. They love what they can provide.

Your premise is faulty.

jackandjill22 · 2017-05-16T08:17:16+00:00

The way I see it either there is mass sexual starvation with men or women are going to have to be repressed/oppressed to some extent or another.

Right now we are in a transition stage from the former into the latter. The effects of it are seen in the fact that incel is a thing, red pill is a thing, along with r9k and all the rest. Men in the 1950s and before that did not have that problem due to the immense social pressure for women to settle down and usually settle across, and in eras long before that rape was okay. No sexual starvation, but oppression.

Women are now as free as they have ever been. No longer do they have to subject themselves to giving lowlier males sex. The cries of incels is music to their ears.

Whatever comes next is not going to be something that everyone likes

Eastuss · 2017-05-15T12:25:15+00:00

What?

Just try to be happy. That's how you fix yourself.

DarkLord0chinChin · 2017-05-15T13:31:56+00:00

War. Kill off most men so that there are more women than men.

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[deleted] · 2017-05-15T14:54:23+00:00

Why would you continue to try to make sand castles? The sand will just form whatever shape it does regardless.

Fix you, and your tribe, let society handle itself. Don't forget, when Rome fell, it took 400 years, so enjoy the decline is a far cry from exestential nihilism

jonascf · 2017-05-15T15:57:22+00:00

Is there really enough of a mess that it needs to be fixed? Isn't just helping people to find their personal solutions good enought?

MethodsOfRationality · 2017-05-15T18:45:51+00:00

I request proof of this so-called 'decline'.

rulenumber303 · 2017-05-16T09:54:29+00:00

Things aren't in that much of a mess that a systemic fix is required. So shoo, shoo, if you've got a problem it is your problem, and you need to go off and work harder on your own life.

[deleted] · 2017-05-16T13:00:27+00:00

Monogamy
Be monogamous
Don't fuck around

In all seriousness monogamy is the compromise and it's the system we had before recent technological advances (access to birth control, paternity tests, safe abortions, legal protections, pornography, dating apps) made it easier for women to have many partners.

IamTheWalkingMenu · 2017-05-15T14:21:17+00:00

Fix modern love? Reconcile the genders? It's not that bad, most ppl are fine. Maybe take a "pill" break? It might help.

5th_Law_of_Robotics · 2017-05-15T12:46:58+00:00

Two words:

Thunder Dome.

buartha · 2017-05-15T15:33:14+00:00

I'm interested in how others believe that we could improve/reconcile between the genders.

You want societal fixes.

I'm not convinced that societal fixes are feasible, because it would require more from women than I think they individually and as a group are willing to do. I certainly don't think men are going to do much to change it; I don't think they could even if they wanted to.

But, if you want societal fixes, here's what I think needs to happen. This is going to sting a bit.

--Married women leave the workforce en masse and return home to their husbands. If you must work, you do so only at the behest of your husband.

--Married women stand down from running their families and get out of husbands' way in leading and running their families in terms of overall vision and mission.

--single women spend time specifically preparing for marriage and motherhood. Work, sure; but find a quality man you're attracted to and can submit to, and latch on for life and don't ever let go. Lock him down by the time you're 25. and also: You may not marry any man unless your father or some other man in your family specifically approves of that man and releases you to marry him.

--single women: Insist on better for yourselves than pump and dumps from hot players. Stop fucking hot guys with no more commitment than a couple of hours or dates. When you have a ring and a date, then you can fuck.

--Divorced women: If you can find a man willing to be in an LTR with you, great. Let go of your pipe dreams of the hunky millionaire handyman. He's not coming, today, tomorrow or ever. Find a guy who will treat you decently, throw yourself at his feet, throw yourself on his mercy, do all you can to endear yourself to him, and hope to God he accepts you. The best you can hope for is an LTR/cohabitation. Legal marriage? Not going to happen.

--Married men: Insist on leading the family. When necessary, tell your wives to STFD and STFU. If she won't, and continues to resist, dread; and if that doesn't work, divorce.

--Single men: Don't get married until a woman sells you on marriage. YOU don't sell marriage to HER; SHE sells marriage to YOU. Don't even consider marriage until she has convinced you that marriage to her is better than remaining single. Until then, have sex with hot girls.

--Divorced men: If she's got you over a barrel, expatriate. Cut all ties to the US and get the hell out of Dodge. If you're doing well, DO NOT REMARRY EVER. No remarriage, under any circumstances, not even if she really is great. At the absolute most, consider cohabitation, if and only if she's the greatest woman you've ever met and everything checks out. Keep assets separate; make it so you can kick her out or walk away if you have to.

--All men: Learn Game. Don't put up with one ounce of shit from a woman, a friend, or a boss. Arrange your life as much as you can such that you can simply walk away from anyone or anything that no longer serves you or your purposes.

Societal changes:

The following are outlawed and prohibited:

--no fault divorce. (Divorce is allowed only for the A's: Adultery, (real, violent, physical, life threatening) abuse, abandonment, addiction. That's it. Nothing else.)

--abortion.

--birth control except by prescription and then only to married couples.

--"marital rape". No husband can be prosecuted for having intercourse with his wife. A woman refusing intercourse and sexual contact with her husband shall be deemed to have abandoned her marriage and her husband shall be entitled to an immediate divorce.

After that, I'd repeal the 14th Amendment. I'd also institute limits for women attending college such that all institutions of higher education's admittance rates are at least 60% men.

--rape law overhaul. Removal of "rape shield" laws such that all relevant evidence including the character and conduct of the alleged "victim" may be considered, on the occasion of the event in question and other occasions. If she's a slut, the jury's entitled to hear that. If she's accused others of rape, whether true or false, the jury's entitled to hear that. IF she's been married 3 times and has 3 kids by 3 different dads, the jury's entitled to hear that. If she's had abortions, the jury's entitled to hear it. If she has STDs, the jury's entitled to hear it. If she's a drunk or an addict or has shitty credit or had run ins with the law, the jury's entitled to hear it. If she is or has ever been a sex worker (stripper, hooker, porn star), the jury's entitled to hear it.

--divorce law overhaul. No alimony under any circumstances, even if fault is proved. Default primary residential custody of children to the primary breadwinner, whoever that is, regardless of fault. Improve the equity of property division. Noncustodial parent MUST pay child support, even if custodial parent vastly outearns the custodial parent. Even if it's $5 a week.

Archwinger · 2017-05-15T15:40:52+00:00

You don't want The Red Pill to "fix" or "save" society. That would make you a second class citizen. Maybe even talking cattle. And I'm a Red Piller saying this.

If you let me redesign society, you'll be property. Marriage will work, women will be well taken care of, men will be men, but you'll be a reasonably intelligent and creative human being that doesn't exercise her reasonable intelligence or creativity and just has babies with her man.

wtknight · 2017-05-15T14:37:30+00:00

Men need to develop themselves more to appeal to women, many of whom seem to be perfectly willing to go without a man if they can't find one. There should probably be courses available to help men learn to increase their appeal that aren't either overly feminist or traditional masculinist-leaning.

Women who whine about not being able to find quality men should learn to lower their standards a bit, perhaps, but if they are perfectly happy being single then more power to them. It's up to the men to appeal to them, then.

raginghamster · 2017-05-15T15:05:43+00:00

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reepbot · 2017-05-15T12:56:19+00:00

Early education. Like before preschool early.

OurThrownAwayDreams · 2017-05-15T15:58:16+00:00

Don't try to fix the world, it will never come out quite the way you expected.

Instead, fix yourself first. Take responsibility in your life, be the best version of yourself, both men and women. We need to repudiate the victimhood mentality that's been plaguing us for so long. People need to stop seeing themselves as victims of EVERYTHING and start taking control and responsibility for the things they do, the things they say, and the decisions they make.

We need to recognize how important family is before we all become atomized. Stable families produce stable society. People need to stop getting fixated on the idea of "complete equality" and recognize that we're all privileged and underprivileged in different areas of life, it's just a bunch of trade-offs that we're balancing.

While there might be no way to fix the decline in marriage rate, we should still strive to make divorce laws fairer for men. change the way how alimony is handled and take a good look at child support.

only together can we suppress the regressive left and those toxic ideologies in public and in our universities. we cannot afford to poison another generation for there will be nobody left to pay off the debt we incurred.

Centurion53 · 2017-05-16T16:54:33+00:00

Why the hell do you want shit fixed, watching the world burn is a lot more fun. People should focus on themselves and fuck the rest. Only the strong survive.

YetAnotherCommenter · 2017-05-15T13:28:41+00:00

If we're going to be economic about this, the Pareto-Optimal situation is where no one can be made better off without someone else being made worse off.

Frankly, isn't that how the current system is? Women may prefer being one of Chad's plates than being married to an unattractive man. Sure, the ideal some RPers have of a Sexual Welfare State via culturally enforced monogamy would make individual men happier but at the cost of individual women being less happy than they would be if they had access to alpha dick. And frankly we're in a world where women can earn their own money and don't need to provide sexual company to non-sexy guys.

From a Pareto-Optimality perspective, the current situation is actually more Pareto-Optimal than forcing everyone into monogamous pair-bonding for life (by TRP's own theories).

Even if we go to Kaldor-Hicks efficiency (where a reallocation that leaves some people worse off is permissible if those whom are better off as a result of the reallocation could compensate those worse off and still come out ahead), the "efficient" market outcome isn't necessarily in favor of TRP's seeming preferences; if women are indeed willing to cheat in order to have Chad dick, and being loved and provided for just doesn't provide compensation... well, Kaldor-Hicks isn't really satisfied.

The fact is that the demand for women is greater than the supply of willing women, and the demand for men is much more focused on the "higher quality" end of the spectrum, where demand outstrips supply. There is an imbalance of demand and supply and this is arguably rooted in biology.

Can it be perfectly fixed?

Unless women suddenly develop "the itch" men endure... or men are relieved of "the itch"... we'd still face the same basic demand imbalance.

Alternatively we can develop/permit substitute goods for those men who cannot get women.

Alternatively we could revert to making male culture more cruel/strict/individuality-destroying in order to create more alphas. Turn male life into a giant redpill bootcamp. The downside to this is that yes, there will still be some loser males whom would suffer extreme disutility, and even males who survived would experience some degree of disutility as a result. And could pussy really compensate for that? I'm sure it could for some men but not all.

I think the best situation is to do the following:

Lower the potential costs of heterosexual love. This means abolish common-law marriage, enforce prenups, end bias in family courts, end biases in domestic violence and rape services, permit legal paternal surrender, crack down on false rape allegations. This will make men much more willing to get involved with women on a much more carefree basis.
End slut-shaming. This will lessen women's hesitance to have sex.
Stop judging men on how much puss they crush. This will lessen cultural exacerbations of an already difficult demand difference.
Decriminalize and fully deregulate the market for substitute goods for sex, such as toys, porn, prostitution, sexbots.
Forbid any government regulation/control of marriage, intimate relationships between consenting adults (of any number), etc.

Let the chips fall where they may. Under this situation, even Incels would be better off because they'd have less socially-inflicted shame and more substitute goods available. And the above situation wouldn't detract one iota from women's rights.

BPremium · 2017-05-15T14:11:39+00:00

We fix things by identifying what causes the inequalities and bridge that. The jobs and education portions are mostly solved, IMO, so I focus on the dating and relationship portion.

Develop a drug that allows massive weight loss in rapid speed. Im talking significant results within 2 weeks type of shit. We need to make both parties more physically attractive to each other to lessen the disparity.
Also develop a drug, maybe mixed in with BC or something, that would significantly increase womens thirst. We need to figure out how to make women want most men like men want most women.
We need to squish hypergamy or make it insanely easy for men to quench. I dont know how to do that without stripping women of rights or lobotomy type shit.
Revamp no fault divorce, child custody, and all that legal bullshit.

JaggedYellowPill · 2017-05-15T15:08:22+00:00

I think ethical non-monogamy is an idea whose time has come. In a monogamous model, men lie and cheat, women lie and cheat, dead bedrooms persist, and otherwise good relationships end over minor infidelities.

Let's all just accept that humans are not a monogamous species. If we can all just maturely and openly discuss preferences and agree on boundaries, I think relationships on the whole will improve.

gasparddelanuit · 2017-05-15T15:05:58+00:00

It can’t be fixed. There’s no such thing as fixed in this matter, given human diversity. Everyone has different preferences. Moreover, there will always be conflict and competing interests. This means that there will always be winners and losers in a free society. Only a centralized, authoritarian, entity can impose some form of uniformity. Such an institution, however, necessarily lacks legitimacy and could only have the appearance of having fixed anything.

It’s hubris to think modern romantic relationships can be controlled or fixed. All one can do is have some semblance of control over one’s own life. The democratic process and the law of supply and demand are what will maintain some imperfect form of homeostasis amongst all the competing interests.

If it happens at all, the decline will happen over a long period of time. We may see the trends, but we have no conception of when or how it will all end. Later generations may even be able to adapt and stave it off. However, there is no cosmic law that says humans were ever meant to grow and develop for all eternity. The species may not even survive before it gets to see the decline in its full glory. 99.9 percent of the species that have ever lived on this planet are extinct, in large part due to around 5 mass extinction events. So, the odds are that our expiration will come eventually, in one form or another. What does it matter if there is some decline in the meantime? Historically, empires have always come and gone. No one can control this and little we do in our short lifetimes can predict or control what will happen much later.

What does decline even mean? Again, it’s a matter of perspective and preference. I think progress depends more on more dispassionate knowledge, not on whether people have romantic relationships or not. Sometimes the two are linked, since men are often motivated to achieve in order to gain greater access to sex, but are not necessarily so. Sex can also be acquired outside of the confines of relationships. So can children.

Human beings are primarily, though not exclusively, self-interested. They will adapt and do what they need to do to improve their own existence as individuals. How society progresses will primarily emerge out of that in a free society. Understanding all of what people want and prioritizing their importance is probably the best way of predicting and influencing their behaviour. Of course, that’s easier said than done. Nevertheless, fairly provide the right incentives, and one can better channel behaviour in a non-coercive manner.

[deleted] · 2017-05-16T00:12:33+00:00

Blow jobs for all.

That's really the reason every guy comes to RP, right? Trying to figure out how to get someone's mouth around their penis?

It's very basic stuff.

badnews4u · 2017-05-16T13:47:14+00:00

you dont. you adapt. also nothing needs fixing in the first place

how you do that is up to you and is reflected in your life

Atauturk24 · 2017-05-15T13:59:05+00:00

EARLY EDUCATION : make it mandatory to teach boys how to act in front of woman,,,,don't waste too much TIME ON ONE GIRL......MOVE ON QUICKLY etc etc,,,LOOKS AND ESP STATUS ARE HIGHLY IMPORTANT,,,,AND ALSO NO MENAS NO ,,,HARASSMENT IS NOT OKAY even if the girl is playing games
Religion : Richard Dawkins says Christianity is world's best defence against radical Islam

https://www.christiantoday.com/article/richard.dawkins.says.christianity.is.worlds.best.defence.against.radical.islam/76416.htm

and also relevant for ur society to stop the barbarians of the desert cult ( my ex-religion)

End Alimony, child support and make divorce just a simple procedre where u have to fill a form and vola ur divorced,,,one person wants it ,,one person gets it

Also ONE GENERATION IS GONE,,,,BUT SAVE HOPE FOR THE NEXT ONE PLEASE

Title	Q4All: How do we fix this mess?
Author	rivertorain
Upvotes	12
Comments	260
Date	May 15, 2017 12:23 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/6ba268/q4all_how_do_we_fix_this_mess/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/q4all-how-do-we-fix-this-mess.268091 https://theredarchive.com/post/268091

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