Trad Cons and capitalism

ApprehensiveDot3115 · 2023-07-13T11:24:24+00:00

Any trad con dude worth his salt is well-aware of the fact he needs to make a lot of money in order to achieve that life. Making enough for two people is no easy task, and he'll need to earn more for every child he wants to have.

The dudes you see espousing trad con values, but only earning, say 20-50k, just have unrealistic expectations in the same way single moms on dating apps want Mr. Perfect.

Only some of these dudes will become high earners, and they'll be properly positioned to find a trad con wife, because these women make themselves available to those men.

RevolutionaryFig929 · 2023-07-13T11:43:59+00:00

People are always speaking about the old times where one income wzs enough, as if people had the same luxury lifestyle....

People didn't go out to eat, it was rare, they didnt order take away food. They prepared everything at home. They would repair clothes themseelves zs long as possible, especially for children. Houses and apartments tended to be much simpler and cheaper. Holidays or activities for free tile were much simpler and cheaper. People bought a lot less useless stuff, that's only for entertainment. Less cost for transportation, using taxis was a rare thing for many. Oftentimes people could go to their workplaces, childrens schools, shoping by foot.

Unpopular opinion, but I think you could still lead a pretty similiar lifestyle on a lot of todays salaries (with one salary alone).

But people in general don't want it anymore.

obviousredflag · 2023-07-13T08:53:46+00:00

Tradcons didn't build the system in which women need to work.

TheRedPillRipper · 2023-07-13T10:27:21+00:00

why the economic system isn’t a major part of the agenda

The majority of men won’t ever control, or have any significant influence over it. So TRP focuses instead on the Individual.

Making bank is a core tenet to TRP. It’s from this basis, TRP encourages men to empower themselves. Which is far more efficient, and effective.

Godspeed and good luck!

abaxeron · 2023-07-13T08:22:08+00:00

a capitalistic system that prevents fair wages

Capitalistic system is the only reason we have wages at all instead of subsistence and a couple pennies of lord's allowance on top. The only system that has ever allowed significant part of "citizens" to have and maintain one-income household was slavery, but it loopholed around the problem by not recognizing slaves as citizens.

Capitalistic system is the only reason an average person's net worth has ever crawled above 400 US dollars in 1990 prices.

Capitalistic system is the only reason an average person can with some effort move from one city to another and maintain relatively the same lifestyle instead of being tied to a plot of land or a communal farm.

In capitalistic system, most average men produce enough surplus value to support a one-income household. Most average men don't do it because their surplus value gets forcibly taken away from them by the state and redistributed among women who hate them to buy those women's votes. Which is, fundamentally, a socialist initiative that truly blown out to gargantuan scale after women got the right to vote.

Tradcons absolutely do have on their radar that socialist initiatives need to be gradually rolled back, and ideally, your granma's retirement should not be managed by federal psychopaths with nukes. But since most voters are women, and significant chunk of them are women who hate men, saying it out loud on a pre-election debate would make any candidate unelectable.

armpitpics · 2023-07-13T13:07:10+00:00

There's no perfect system for female submission. Under communism or state socialist women wouldn't depend on a single man or on men at all as both men and women would be provided for by their communities or states. It is under capitalism and market socialism (yes, market socialism is a thing) that there is market and resource driven inequality. This inequality is not only the reason why many men have less then other men and can't support a family on their salary alone, but also the reason why many men make more than women, and these women become dependent on men as they don't have a state or a community to fall back on.

I don't want to be submissive wife though.

Grand-Inspection2303 · 2023-07-13T14:54:12+00:00

People greatly overestimate how much money is actually needed to live on, because they view certain lifestyles as necessities when they're actually just wants. You may have to live in an old 70-80 year old house with a 1 car garage instead of a spacious house in a new cookie-cutter suburb development. You may have to settle for a cheap camping trip instead of a Disney vacation. Your kids may grow up thinking Olive Garden is a fancy restaurant for very special occasions.

The cost of living for a 4 person family in my area is about 70K, Economic Policy Institute | Family Budget Calculator (epi.org) That's certainly an above average income, but it's hardly an outrageous goal to aspire to either. It's not miminum wage, but it's not fancy lawyer or doctor money either. Most undergraduate level jobs in health-care, jobs in a skilled trade, construction contracting, etc...easily provide this income level or higher. And honestly, with frugality a family of 4 could definitely live on significantly less than 70K.

monozen-garden · 2023-07-13T15:04:14+00:00

OP I am a traditionalist who supports communism. I don't believe capitalism benefits traditional lifestyles and values; it actively seeks to destroy them. Today's Capitalism is hell-bent on destroying its past to appear like it has magically become ethical. In order to do this, they hyper fixate on alternative lifestyles such as polyamory, promiscuity, and others as markers of ethical progress. It also indirectly hurts traditional values but breaks up communities because people must move to find a job that pays them livable wages, overworks people in the name of profit, and more.

Capitalism might have created values we cherish but its fearless to take it away when it no longer needs them. Who says these values need capitalism, there is a theory of exaptation which is is a concept in evolutionary biology that describes a trait or feature that originally evolved for one purpose but later becomes utilized for a different function.

Garfish16 · 2023-07-13T15:54:01+00:00

The strategy is to make women completely economically dependent on men. Then they will not be able to have high standards regardless of the economic system because if they do not associate themselves with a man they will starve.

Edit: Also there are traditionalists that want more social support specifically for other traditionalist families, fascists.

AdComprehensive6588 · 2023-07-14T02:17:26+00:00

<Men allow a capitalistic sys-

Absolutely ZERO guy supported a system that made it to where affording a home on one income was harder. The only ones who did were idiots who bought into trickle down economics and the rich who benefited from it, WHO WOMEN ALSO VOTED FOR.

Blaming men for capitalism, that’s a new one.

wtknight · 2023-07-13T11:16:39+00:00

The men in economic power don't want to have a less capitalistic system because then they lose their economic advantage over less successful men. This economic power allows them to attract more and better women.

badgersonice · 2023-07-13T12:04:50+00:00

How do you expect women to be submissive when the men allow a capitalistic system that prevents fair wages and an ability for one income household?

It is indeed surprising that some men expect women to be submissive when they are not forced to be.

Pizzashillsmom · 2023-07-13T08:33:44+00:00

Modern women want the state to be their husband, is it weird men don’t support that when they pay the majority of taxes?

AutoModerator · 2023-07-13T08:01:06+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "CMV" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

Affectionate_Ad8432 · 2023-07-13T12:01:15+00:00

What OP isn't realizing is that women used to not work, which had an effect on the labor market. There was roughly half the supply of labor, so companies had to pay enough to attract a man trying to support a family.

Women fought for the right to enter the workforce, which is awesome for society but not so much for wages. Over time, this greatly expanded the workforce and allowed companies to pay less and less. This is one of the huge factors that contributed to stagnant wages from the 1970s onwards.

So men didn't really cause the two income requirement to raise a family. There was already a system in place where the man could work, and the woman could build a home. This two income requirement to raise a family wasn't until women wanted to enter the workforce, which effectively doubled the labor supply.

nonplussedminus · 2023-07-13T12:11:21+00:00

What are you gonna do about capitalism? There's not really anything you can do about it. You could be a communist but they don't like trad people and most of them are motivated by abolishing you, ignoring the fact that being a communist is completely hopeless in this day and age. You could try being a Monarchist but that's even more hopeless. Short of becoming a Unabomber there aren't really any options there.

RedBullfrog · 2023-07-13T12:15:31+00:00

I can't speak for TradCons. I find them ridiculous.
As a RP I find being submissive is about respect and not about money. And your statement that capitalism prevents fair wages doesn't hold up. Take a trip to the Nordic countries.

Why don't I blame society and call for an economic revolution instead of holding people accountable for their words and actions? That should be pretty obvious.

cmvmania · 2023-07-13T12:45:25+00:00

ability for one income household?

you think if wages magically increase by tomorrow women will just find someone to marry without giving up work when their wage is equally able to sustain a family themselves?

The status quo doesn't change, they will still be hypergamous.

Why would you decide to marry once you have made more money? In fact, they didn't when most of them already made good money in white collar jobs. At most, they would still marry someone wealthier.

magiksissclit · 2023-07-13T15:14:30+00:00

Weird post. Corruption will always exist regardless of the economic system in place (capitalism, communism, socialism, etc) so long as corrupt people remain in power.

The reason capitalism is preferred is bc down to it's core, by definition, it must include upward mobility. Meaning under communist or socialist systems, yes, you can absolutely lose even more sovereignty than our current paradigm has allowed. While under capitalism, there is a clear and definable limit to how much may be stolen from you

Tl:Dr people with an agenda who work tirelessly to give capitalism a bad name have ulterior motives in mind

Edit: I'm going to let the above stand bc probably someone needs to read it. Better understanding, OPs angle: I guess he's trying to say some people should spark an economic revolution within the capitalism framework so as to return to the possibility of a one income household. A Revolution is coming but it's a mental and emotional one.

baiser_vole · 2023-07-13T16:28:29+00:00

TradCon is not based on that. Healthy TradCon is based on trust that the person making the decisions would have the best interests of the other person first and foremost with active communication, and would not be abusing one's powers. What's lacking is the lack of trust.

Economic factors exist, but it doesn't necessarily buy respect. The dominant person needs to be seen competent, and if women think they could easily do better than their own man in his shoes, there won't be any respect. If the man is living a respectable life with an admirable attitude regardless of his salary, a man is able to earn the respect. That requires a strong masculine man in mentality, and not many guys have that anymore. Even in cultures where TradCon survived for longer, with the man of the house making all the money, the households don't run in a TradCon style.

Environmental-Oil239 · 2023-07-13T17:53:39+00:00

men allow a capitalistic system that prevents fair wages and an ability for one income household?

Comrade, have you seen the sexes' labour roles in the USSR, eastern Europe, China, and North Korea? So. Much. Progress.

I sincerely doubt that you're advocating in favour of right-wing revolution. At least, I really hope you aren't.

basedmama21 · 2023-07-13T17:59:24+00:00

Most conservatives, at least me personally, don’t view the collective as anything to worry about. Sounds harsh, but what am I supposed to do about others? That’s why we don’t believe in equity or affirmative action. And I’m also saying this as a black woman. If other families cannot afford a certain situation, that’s on them. Not us to worry about. We fight for our own success and believe in merit. If women want to be housewives, they need to qualify for the men who can provide for them. I’m a SAHM and I was competitive while dating. I was taught that’s how the world works from a young age.

This is a modern form of natural selection in some ways. I’m fine with that.

I’m not bothered by capitalism. If it didn’t exist, something else would take its place.

katyushas_boyfriend · 2023-07-13T19:05:20+00:00

and an ability for one income household

Most people can still have a one income household if they lower their expectations for standards of living and move out of an expensive metropolis.

The stereotypical white, "middle-class", American family of the 1950s-1970s:

Lived in a small bungalow, with kids often sharing rooms
Had one car
Rarely ate out or ordered takeout
Rarely went on vacations, much less outside the country
Only got to enjoy retirement for a few years before passing away

And this was in a time of unprecedented economic prosperity for the US since Europe was still rebuilding after WW2, they were economically dependent on the US and there was minimal competition.

Inevitable-Dog9120 · 2023-07-13T22:16:17+00:00

The reason you need two incomes in the United States is BECAUSE women joined the workforce. It's a vicious cycle.

You're also assuming that you NEED to make a boatload of money in order to support a family with one income. That just is not the case. There are plenty of families, particularly Christians, that have SAHM's with relatively average incomes. They just don't live fancy, sexy lifestyles. They aren't buying expensive clothes, going on vacations, or eating at restaurants. It can be done, it's just not the "comfortable living" that we all strive for.

thekinkyhairbookworm · 2023-07-14T01:42:39+00:00

I just want to know what is the big hoopla about having a submissive wife. Can someone explain it to me please?

Willow-girl · 2023-07-14T13:38:58+00:00

when the men allow a capitalistic system that prevents fair wages

Solution: Start your own business! Then you can earn as much as you want, and pay your workers those excellent wages that you feel they deserve.

Godspeed!

Title	Trad Cons and capitalism
Author	MOProG2
Upvotes	12
Comments	109
Date	July 13, 2023 8:01 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/14yehyo/trad_cons_and_capitalism/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/trad-cons-and-capitalism.1225123 https://theredarchive.com/post/1225123

Comments