When is being vulnerable/open too much for a man dating a woman?

propyl21 · 2023-01-04T17:46:14+00:00

Long post incoming - I just posted this in a different sub so hope it helps

To understand vulnerability, you'd have to first understand your own level of emotional intelligence - this will give you a good indicator of how well you are in touch with your own emotions. It means that you can instantly admit to your mistakes, or in seeking help, or apologizing, and acknowledging that maybe you don’t have the answers as well as to be able to describe your feelings in detail. These all involve expressions of vulnerability. It's essentially having tamed your ego to a manageable level whilst not having a fragile ego, but rather a healthy one.

Examples of a healthy emotional connection is how you respond to someone's pain. Let's say you are speaking to a friend and they mention they are having a bad day. A healthy response would be to support them and to tell them: "Damn that sounds like a really shitty thing to happen" - you are validating their pain. You acknowledge their feelings while actually feeling their pain.

A negative response and a poor connection would mean you respond by saying "just deal with it..." - you are rejecting their pain as well as showing your lack of empathy. You are batting away their vulnerability because you simply choose not to be in touch with your own. In other words it is you who is showing weakness and not strength.

Watch out for the following in yourself: don't play the troubleshooter. If someone is telling you their problem, they are basically showing you their vulnerability. They don't want you to troubleshoot their problem for them. They just want you to show vulnerability also. This might sound totally counter-intuitive, but it'll make sense the more you do it. Plus it takes way less energy and time to validate their pain by showing understanding rather than to mansplain how they should fix their problems. They just want someone to listen to their pain.

Unfortunately a lot of red pill men are indoctrinated to act all macho in the face of adversity (look at the responses in this thread alone) - In other words, to bottle it all up and act tough. What they don't realise is that this creates a huge amount of toxic masculinity - and this leads to stunted emotional growth. They end up thinking they are "alpha" when in fact it's just a pseudo-initiation of manhood. As a result, the only way they are able to show emotion is in the form of anger yet they don't even realise it. And it's always directed at women! It's all very unfortunate.

Finally, in today's society, male vulnerability is seen as a weakness. I cannot even begin to tell you just how toxic and ass-backwards this is. To show vulnerability is one of the greatest strengths a man can have. It makes him a leader amongst men. In case you are unsure, just look at what the current situation regarding the manosphere and what an incredibly toxic place it is. Look at ~~Andrew Tate~~ Anal Taint and his bravado. But you see, this is what gets the views and creates talking points while the big companies make profit off the back of all this toxicity.

And remember that while you go off to improve yourself and understand things like emotional intelligence and knowing how to express vulnerability, the next woman you get with might not necessarily have that capacity or knowledge about the same thing. They may be behind you in that department, while ahead of you in a different department. They might have a huge ego or victim complex. Every human is different and has their own journey to go on.

So while you may have done your bit, try to seek out the same in others. Otherwise you'll be the one at a disadvantage. This is why we settle for people that are the same as us in terms of the values we have and our overall outlook on life etc.

Edit: Spellings

ZealousidealAd7191 · 2023-01-04T19:19:45+00:00

Your woman is NOT your therapist. Sad to say but I’m not sure you can EVER truly be vulnerable with your woman if you want her to stay. That doesn’t mean you can’t share your feelings with her, be honest with her, even shed a tear from time to time. But being completely vulnerable? No that requires a lot of history for a relationship to withstand that. Never with a girlfriend and probably only on rare occasions with a wife and under certain circumstances.

gymbro718nyc2 · 2023-01-04T18:42:04+00:00

There is a difference between being vulnerable and being a pathetic nice guy who victim pukes all over women. If you have some unresolved issues and secrets, perhaps it's better to share them with a close confidant first. Learn to talk about them so you no longer feel the shame and only then start sharing wjth the special woman in your life. If you still have shame about a vulnerability, it's a bad idea to talk to your SO about it.

M3101997 · 2023-01-04T18:13:36+00:00

You can open up about your struggles. But I think the best thing is to frame it in way that gives you a way to overcome it a solution for it. For example (and this was me to my gf in the past) I’m stressed about money so I’m going to work hard for a promotion, move jobs, or pick up a second job in X amount of time”

I’ve found that girls like that when you can open up but you’re always keeping a strong mental Fran and in control. If you complain and break down and just whine. That’s unattractive. Girls can do it and they do all the time, guys can’t get away with it. Don’t cry.

despisedlove2 · 2023-01-04T17:32:51+00:00

Don't show weakness in front of her. She will never forgive you for it.

LupeDyCazari · 2023-01-04T19:54:13+00:00

ehhh, if you show a woman, especially a woman you care about any vulnerability, she will dump your ass.

This shit about men not being taught to be vulnerable when we are kids - there's a reason why we are not taught to be honest with our feelings and our hurts and all that shit; and why every goddamn culture in the world teaches men to be stoic.

Because if we are emotional, chicks will dump us. This isn't some fairytale ass life where you can be Kevin Coster Prince of Thieves and Lady Marion will fall heads over heels for you 'cause you are emotionally solvent or whatever.

Even if a dude looks as good as Kevin boy did in the 90s, he will get dumped the moment he shows kindness to a girlfriend or to a wife.

You gotta be emotionally distant with the chicks that you love, bro. The hotter they are, the least they are into gentle dudes.

Treat them mean, keep them keen, as grandpa used to say, and considering grandpa was illegally married to 10 women and had 10 families going on at the same time, I think I'm gonna go with the dude's advice over someone like Dr Phil LMAO.

januaryphilosopher · 2023-01-04T17:53:02+00:00

Depends on the woman. I'd suggest you don't date the kind of woman who won't let you open up. The line is drawn where you're sharing way more with her than she is able to share with you - it should be sharing, not therapy in one direction.

SolidusMonkey · 2023-01-04T19:20:50+00:00

Pretty much always, in my experience. My longest relationship completely fell apart because I cried in front of my girlfriend the day my father died. If you're smart, you'll know to NEVER open up to your girlfriend with any kind of feelings of sadness etc, no matter how extreme. It sucks I had to learn that the hard way.

anonnewengland · 2023-01-04T19:35:50+00:00

You can be open with women, just not the ones you want to sleep with. Still, better to just talk to men about stuff. Women spread your info everywhere...

1Here4Bach · 2023-01-04T18:21:30+00:00

I read something on Reddit that goes a little like:

“Show vulnerability in certain times, be stoic in uncertain times.”

I think that’s good advice for males to follow in order to retain the respect that your wife/girlfriend has for you.

An example of showing vulnerability in certain times would be like crying during a really sad movie.

An example of vulnerability during uncertain times would be like freaking out and crying during a hurricane. Or being too scared to check what that weird sound was in the middle of the night.

Women get turned off by the latter but not the former.

I don’t care what women say here, they WILL lose respect for you if you’re vulnerable in uncertain times. It triggers our lizard brain to ask itself if we’re sure he’s a dependable competent man who can protect our children.

What you need to be doing during uncertain times is doing everything in your power to control the situation. If it’s a hurricane you need to make sure everyone is safe, make sure there’s enough food to get you through it, make sure all the windows and doors are secure and stay calm. Your calmness will make your wife calm and her calmness will make the kids calm. If you freak out everyone freaks out.

If you really were scared during that hurricane you can cry about it later on your own and bring it up as a little joke to her. But DON’T show fear or doubt during the hurricane.

KayRay1994 · 2023-01-04T18:11:33+00:00

I think it all goes down to how you talk about your issues and when/where - ex. only talk about them when you’re both completely alone in a quiet day/night - and for me personally, I find that talking about my issues from a “let’s workshop a solution” perspective fares far more than just straight up venting. As for how emotional you wanna be, I don’t think it matters long as you don’t come off as needy or desperate (and no, that doesn’t mean “don’t cry”)

Mean_Veterinarian688 · 2023-01-04T22:58:46+00:00

being vulnerable and expressing yourself will get you far ahead of everyone shaming you. not integrating your unconscious makes you weaker

Rexagon_2017 · 2023-01-04T18:04:24+00:00

Never. Never. Never. People hate weak men, do not listen to idiots on mainstream news sites.

AstronautLoveShack · 2023-01-04T18:03:18+00:00

My husband cries in front of me when he needs to. Over deaths in his family, over his health, when our dog died. He cried the first time he saw Jesus Christ Superstar, which I actually found endearing. My FIL cried when he met my daughter for the first time... I think it's okay to be emotional when you are feeling strong emotions. On the other hand, nobody wants to be with a sad sack so if you are unable to have fun, or cry all the flipping time ("oh no, the server put mayonnaise on my sandwich, how will I survive!") that might be something you'll want to work out. There are also men ("Not All Men") who cry to be manipulative. I'm sure you've seen women like that too - not the ones who cry because they can't help it, but who turn on the waterworks to get their way. Nobody likes those people regardless of gender.

purginggastonist · 2023-01-04T17:39:27+00:00

even the slighest

any amount of vulnerability is a weakness and must be purged

themostgianthorse · 2023-01-04T17:37:20+00:00

There’s not going to be a comprehensive list.

In general, my rule is I try to never bring up a problem without also communicating my idea/plan to address it.

I even take the Dwight Schrute approach sometimes and paraphrase the quote “I am ready to face any challenges that might be foolish enough to face me.”

Edit: I would never cry in front of a woman unless my leg had been chopped off or something. Even then ….

InfamousBake1859 · 2023-01-04T18:40:06+00:00

Honestly depends on what you are crying about. Your mom died? I expect you to cry. You got a papercut… 👀

bzl33 · 2023-01-04T19:31:38+00:00

Being "open" is a recipe for disaster. Many people are emotionally manipulative, they will use your open-ness as a sign of weakness and perhaps use what you told them against you. This is just common sense.

northernlights190 · 2023-01-04T17:41:31+00:00

Depends on the woman he’s dating, I suppose. Some women evidently don’t like any vulnerability. Personally, being very vulnerable and open makes me feel way more intimately connected to a man and thus more attracted to him.

Ok-Expression7575 · 2023-01-04T17:51:41+00:00

If you find yourself crying over trivial struggles you're probably depressed or extremely stressed out. A woman should be worried but not judgemental at this level. If you do nothing to address this then she should leave since you are not ready for a relationship. Obviously, this gets more leeway the longer and more serious the relationship is.

If she judges you because you cried when a close family member, friend, or pet died well then she's just a piece of shit

Ohyarlysmiles · 2023-01-05T02:46:57+00:00

Lol it's always too much.

Sad but true.

BrightProduct5135 · 2023-01-05T05:18:12+00:00

They second you open up, she will begin to loose respect for you.

-angels-fan- · 2023-01-04T18:02:22+00:00

Whatever the woman decides is too much or too miniscule.

If you cry over something she deems is not worthy to cry over, she'll call you a whiny man baby.

You are allowed to cry for reasons they deem are worthy, for a length they deem appropriate. Nothing else.

waffleznstuff30 · 2023-01-04T17:53:51+00:00

I think it depends on the person. For me personally if a guy can let his guard down that much to express everything like that. It's a win.

But honestly all I could ever want is a man to feel safe enough to be vulnerable with me. And if he is crying because he felt a certain way about something and it moved him to tears. Like to know he feels that safe with me is a flex. Because that's genuine human emotion that's a person. It's not a front or a performance it's this is the person as they are in their entirety the good the bad and the ugly. And he's in touch with his emotions enough to feel that and feel safe enough to feel it with me and have me be his comfort. Like it would be an honor and I want to be there with him. If there's pressing issues or something that recurring and hurting them and it's causing negative outcomes for us as a couple. I would encourage therapy for him if it's something hurting and just talking about it isn't enough. But being able to be vulnerable with your partner even if it's bad is a good thing.

Now what women do mock. Is the guy who cries when he's been backed in a corner because of his actions and he's facing the consequences. Like the guy throwing himself on the floor sobbing because he cheated and his partner found out and confronted him. When they do that it's manipulation. Same thing women do to emotionally manipulate a guy by using tears and big emotions. It's basically akin to a temper tantrum that a child throws in a toy aisle.

Psychological_w1n · 2023-01-04T18:26:55+00:00

It probably becomes acceptable if the relationship has lasted a decent amount of time. There's of course how you express vulnerability and how you navigate it. I think finding moments of strength in these moments has more of an onus on men to do. Sharing vulnerable to things external and internal I think can increase a bond given how honest it is. Allowing those vulnerabilities to consume you to the point where it becomes a therapy session that never ends. These phases can happen and they're not automatically deal-breakers, it's just when it becomes constant but this is applicable to both a man and a woman in a relationship.

I don't buy this idea that if a man shows any form of concern, then a woman will leave him.

chalkandapples · 2023-01-04T19:08:15+00:00

Everyone has different ways of expressing themselves. I like men that are more vulnerable and open with me, but I don't like the idea of forcing a man to be more vulnerable than he's comfortable with. If you don't want to cry, then don't.

As long as you have an otherwise healthy way to emotionally express yourself, or if not, be good at self emotional regulation. If you don't express yourself, often I can't understand you or help, and that internal frustration can end up somewhere else, and makes the relationship unhappy if you can't regulate or support yourself emotionally.

I have different types of guys around me, some are very open to expressing vulnerability, others are not. None of them are wrong and that's what makes them unique. My brother and husband wears their emotions on their sleeves, and I appreciate that. My dad and some friends are very stoic, don't express vulnerability, but at the same time is good at emotional regulation and make sure their emotional ups and downs don't affect me.

howdoiw0rkthisthing · 2023-01-04T21:12:48+00:00

What were you crying about?
How early was it in the relationship?
Were there other emotions expressed besides sadness?

sunsetgal24 · 2023-01-04T21:53:28+00:00

I think there is some nuance here that might be difficult to explain.

Being vulnerable is a good thing. Opening up emotionally and helping each other and solving problems together is what makes for a good and lasting relationship.

However, I find that many men are not capable of being vulnerable in a healthy way. There are studies and social observations that basically say that women find emotional comfort in all/most of their friendships, while men don't. Which tends to make women more adjusted. It also makes the vulnerable moments easier - they are spaced out between friends and happen gradually and repeatedly.

In my experience, when a man decides to be vulnerable with me that means he'll dump all of his baggage on me at once and often without warning. This is not a healthy thing to do. He doesn't know if I have the mental and emotional capacity to help him right now. He doesn't know if I have the time and the right headspace for it. He doesn't know if he's massively triggering me with what he is saying. He just lets it all out.

And well, being a good friend/a romantic partner, I obviously try to help him out and comfort him regardless. Now, because I am used to talking with my female friends about issues like this, I am actually pretty good at listening and giving advice. Which means that the guy now has a huge positive experience. He opened up and I helped! I made him feel better! I understood him and gave him tips and maybe those tips actually worked!

Which is fine by itself, but it leads to two things: First, he'll continue to dump his problems onto me without any regard for how I am feeling about it. He sees me as his only source for comfort, so he does it often and spends a lot of our time together on it. Because second, he thinks I can fix it. He felt good after talking to me and my tips worked, so that means that I'll be able to fix all of his problems. He makes me responsible for his happiness.

And what am I left with? A friendship/relationship that is completely unequal, because my friend/partner is constantly draining my emotional batteries and never helps me in return. Suddenly I spend all of my time with this friend playing therapist and trying to help him out. And if I say no, if I can't help with a problem or just want to chill and do something fun or anything else, then he gets mad at me because I am refusing to make him happy.

I wrote this from the first person perspective, but I am not the only woman this has happened to. It has happened with a lot of different men, both friends and partners. And few things make me leave a friendship or relationship faster than when I notice that something like this starts again. The thing I described here is insanely draining, soul crushing and regularly makes me feel like utter shit. It's not something I can afford to tolerate in my life.

So yeah, basically: Do be vulnerable. Just be mindful of the person you are vulnerable with. Check in with them. Make sure to listen to their problems too. Make sure they are not the only person you talk to and you are not only talking about your problems with them. Honestly, therapy is always a good thing, and can take the burden off of such relationships like nothing else. Being vulnerable is a wonderful thing, but it is not an excuse to hurt others.

OpeningInner483 · 2023-01-04T22:39:17+00:00

If women had no rights, then it would ne much safer to be vulnerable around them

CaptainObvious4000 · 2023-01-04T17:38:41+00:00

At any time.

saraimarsena · 2023-01-04T17:44:56+00:00

don’t cry everyday over trivial adult matters, or if you aren’t actively taking steps to improve your situation. part of being an adult, man or woman, is being able to emotionally self regulate and take control of controllable situations

don’t cry before establishing a reasonable level of trust. nobody wants to feel like their date that they barely know is constantly trauma dumping on them, again regardless of gender.

of course, with a mature and empathetic woman who cares, it is okay to cry sometimes. just be careful in determining who that woman is because not every woman can handle that vulnerability.

i don’t cry in front of my partner every day when some minor inconvenience pisses me off at work. but i’ve cried in front of him before, and he’s cried in front of me. there’s a distinction to be made for when it’s okay to just be human, and when it’s time to be an adult and put your big kid pants on.

MistyMaisel · 2023-01-04T18:50:44+00:00

A. How Long Have You Known Each-Other? The less length here, the less you can be open or vulnerable about generally speaking.

B. What is the tone of how you're communicating this vulnerability or being open? Is it joking, jovial, depressed, anxious, angry, etc. The more positive the tone about your pain or struggles, the more readily people accept it.

C. What is your expectation of the other person listening? Compassion, solutions. interest, empathy, sympathy, anger on your behalf, etc. This obviously depends on the person in question, are the passive or active. The more you're asking them to behave counter to how they naturally are for your benefit, the less they'll want to do it.

D. How consistently are you being this thing? Are you basically a constantly sobbing on edge of bleeding at every second human or is this just sometimes you get frustrated thing. Because one of those is fine and the other is a headache.

E. How valid is the vulnerability or pain? I know this sounds awful, but everyone thinks this. It's super hard to listen to champagne problems for everyone.

F. Did you cause your own pain and are you accountable? Again, most of us struggle to be good ears to stuff people did to themselves and they cannot even admit they did.

G. Are you trying to fix this? The more it just seems like you're ok with having this problem and not actively trying to solve it, the harder it is for most people, especially, I think, women, to take it seriously.

H. Is the other person in a position to hear this problem or are they having their own problems? If they're in a stable spot, you can share more. If they're not (and this happens lots especially for young people), you can't. It isn't you, it's that they can't eat more.

I. Are you appreciative, expectant, entitled, respectful, etc. of the other person being here for you? The number of people who seem to think you're supposed to listen to their life story and every problem without any appreciation for it or respect for your advice is baffling. That reminds me.

J. What do you do with the advice or sympathy given? The more you enact on it or take it to heart, the better you can share.

K. Do you ease them into the darker or deeper shit? There's two schools on this, give them the deepest dirt right away that way everything after is easy. Slowly build up is the other. This is very dependent on tone and charisma and reading the room. If you aren't good at those things, slow build and hinting. If you are, you can usually give um the whole dish and they'll be fine.

I can't give you some hard fast rule other than: more commitment = you can be more vulnerable and good timing = you can be more vulnerable and good emotional intelligence/expression = you can be more vulnerable. This is just what I as a woman am considering before I share with anyone.

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Lord_Thanos · 2023-01-04T19:04:05+00:00

This is honestly so silly. I cannot take it seriously. As for me, if I feel like crying I'll cry.

West-Ad-9697 · 2023-01-04T20:46:14+00:00

There's crying and vulnerability and then there's weakness and defeat. First one is actually like catnip. The latter, is disgusting.

Stunning-Spirit5275 · 2023-01-04T22:02:36+00:00

Conditional vulnerability: when being vulnerable resonates, validated or empathizes with her emotional state, it is acceptable. When vulnerability causes her to be uncertain about your emotional resilience or ability to handle conflict, or to threaten her security within a relationship, it is unacceptable

Simple as mate

KommandaKoopa · 2023-01-04T22:18:22+00:00

I don’t show my vulnerabilities, earn it.

BirdMedication · 2023-01-05T00:51:33+00:00

Apparently, whenever there's a hurricane or home intruder and the man shows fear or doubt

throwawaypasaspike · 2023-01-05T01:38:00+00:00

Weird answer but i love when my man cries.

Shows he's human and trusts me with his emotions.

I'm away for several months at a time, he cries when he misses me and it makes my heart swell.

It's so cute and very touching.

KikiYuyu · 2023-01-05T05:22:02+00:00

It depends entirely on where the relationship is at. Man or woman, it can be off putting to unload a lot onto someone you don't know that well, or aren't close enough with.

It's good to test a little at a time. If you're with someone who totally shuts down any discussion of heavy feelings, that's not a good sign. Better to figure that out sooner than later.

billiecolorado · 2023-01-05T16:34:21+00:00

I fell more in love with my husband when we were dating and he felt comfortable enough to cry in front of me

Relevant-Story-3005 · 2023-01-05T19:50:54+00:00

If you want to keep a relationship with a female don't tbh

lolmastr13 · 2023-01-06T08:25:50+00:00

Always, it’s usually a big negative

the_FUEGO_ · 2023-01-09T06:31:25+00:00

Women don’t want you to be emotionally vulnerable because they’re, say, looking to help you out. They want it because they want to feel close to you.

Title	When is being vulnerable/open too much for a man dating a woman?
Author	bjjkaril1
Upvotes	16
Comments	144
Date	January 4, 2023 5:27 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1039cfo/when_is_being_vulnerableopen_too_much_for_a_man/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/when-is-being-vulnerableopen-too-much-for-a-man.1147058 https://theredarchive.com/post/1147058

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