body count issue UPDATE

Wife_and_Mama · 2023-04-05T12:52:30+00:00

He seems more upset about a kiss than several blow jobs. If he wants a virgin, he should date virgins. He's allowed his preferences, but he can't be cruel to you for it. As you get older, a lot of guys will not ask for details, if they ask at all. In the future, I'd be upfront with how much you want to share if and when it comes up. Use it as a vetting strategy and gauge how the guy reacts when you tell him.

StrangestUnicorn · 2023-04-05T20:07:22+00:00

I'm going to play the devil's advocate here.

i’m really not a hoe, and have only slept with either bfs or a guy i had talked to for over a year, and each one was 2 years a part

i have a low body count

The number of men you have had sex with is low.

i’m wondering if i actually have to answer the bj thing or how to answer it that doesn’t make it seem like i’m trying to hide or don’t want to talk about it bc it’s a high #

However the number of men you had oral sex with is high.

he said he didn’t care but was just mad i lied

he put in his head that i lied to him and it became a big fight

During the initial conversation about your sexual history you gave him the smaller number of the two. From your own words he accepted your answer. At some point in the future he started to suspect that you have omitted some information, and asked follow up questions.

he asked me again about how many guys i’ve given bj’s to & i just said under 10

You avoided the question for 5 days, before finally giving a vague answer. Which confirmed his suspicions that you are trying to hide something.

then he asked me how many guys i’ve kissed - i said 3. he asked who, i avoided telling who exactly for an hour

finally i told him, he was fine with two of them and then i said a guy he knew

He dug deeper. You were once again avoidant. You have decided to exclude oral sex from you sexual history, and have failed to disclose that you had history with someone he knows (even if it was just a kiss, he still has the right to know. Wouldn't you want to know if your BF had kissed one of your friends?). Your avoidant answers and "trickle truths" make him only more suspicions that your are deliberately hiding information about your past from him.

I think the guy has definitely mishandled this conversation. But so have you.

I will disagree with other commenters that he is insecure. From what I gather, he was fine with your history after your initial conversation. He is not upset about you sexual history. He is upset about the lack of honesty (lying via omission and trickle truths) and deterioration of trust. When new couples discuss their sexual history, it is a valuable moment of mutual trust and vulnerability. Honesty is very important here. If you want to salvage this relationship, it is the trust that you need to fix.

And let it be a lesson for your future relationships. You sexual history is relatively mild, and most men will accept it. You should not engage in these "half truths" games when this subject comes up, or you will risk this exact deterioration of trust happening over and over again.

cheeky_chameleon16 · 2023-04-05T08:24:38+00:00

Girl, I’m so sorry. That’s really cruel. Also, just because that’s your past, doesn’t mean you have to sit there and take it while he basically interrogates you like that! You gotta have boundaries with people. Nothing productive would have come from it either way and now you know what kind of guy he is… an asshole. Wipe your tears and pick yourself back up because you deserve someone that treats you like a human and not an object to show off and make them look better than they really are.

anonrussia · 2023-04-05T11:43:29+00:00

You dodged a bullet, honestly

AgitatedHold6 · 2023-04-05T14:44:37+00:00

I'm confused, have you given more BJs than kissed guys?

I think part of this is you are making a game of it. He asks "how many guys you kissed?" And you are like, I don't want to tell him the real number, so I'll give a false one and then give him a real one later. His anxiety and anger builds and then you tell him the real number and then upset that built up anger and anxiety comes out.

Unfortunately this relationship will go no where and this is the quit point. Him asking your sexual history (and vice versa) is a conversation that needs to happen with every new relationship today. Instead of given direct responses you've tip toed around areas like a game of hide and seek (and I don't know him so he could be doing the same).

Next time just answer.

WhatIsThisAccountFor · 2023-04-05T14:03:21+00:00

He is being pretty terrible about the way he is dealing with this, and I don’t really think the relationship is worth pursuing given this behavior, but you need to be honest with your potential partners.

This is your past. He is allowed to be unhappy about your past. He is allowed to believe you two are incompatible because of your past. If he asks you for this information, sure you can lie, but this is clearly very important to him so it’s probably only going to hurt you both long term to lie or dance around the truth.

It seems to me like you lied about his friend. You say “I view hooking up as more than kissing”, but really you know you’re being overly techincal to avoid giving him the information he’s actually asking for. This is lying. If you do this to men you want to be with your relationships will collapse. Every one of them.

fossacecak · 2023-04-05T15:26:26+00:00

You need a bit more self confidence, love. This was becoming an unhealthy dynamic. “How many people have you kissed, and what are their names?” Is something a teen would ask. And no respectful/respectable man will tell you, ‘you’re gross, get the fuck out’ and act as if you cheated on him by daring to be involved with other men before you were even together.

Gross behavior on his end. You will be okay and you will find a better man. Vet better in the future to avoid attaching yourself to someone who displays immaturity like this.

wes_bestern · 2023-04-05T12:29:11+00:00

You're not a hoe. But I'm gonna play devils advocate here and say he was probably frustrated with the way you dodged questions and weren't upfront. You acted like someone with something to hide and once he saw inconsistency and not getting straight answers, his trust was shattered.

Just be honest and direct about who you are. If that's not good enough for him, you dont need him. But, as dickish as he's being, he still has a right to his boundaries even if you dont agree with those. Dont bark up the wrong tree. There are plenty of other guys who would have no issue with your history.

I'm very sorry this happened to you. But he has a right to his boundaries and standards.

LateralThinker13 · 2023-04-05T14:23:08+00:00

1) The guy sounds young and kinda dumb. Also yes, hooking up is sexual acts, not just kissing. That's a ridiculous standard.

2) He's completely right about something else. How you dress (or act, or speak, etc.) while acting as his partner DOES reflect upon him, and vice versa. If he's trying to appear respectable, and you wear trashy clothing, that takes away from his presentation. Why do you think Richard Gere took the hooker shopping in the movie Pretty Woman? (Unrealistic movie premise but illustrative here)

3) Unfortunately, I'm going to have to side with him on one more thing:

how many guys i’ve given bj’s to & i just said under 10

plus

how many guys i’ve kissed - i said 3.

suggests you're quicker to blow than to kiss. That's pretty hoe-like, especially when you state:

i’ve only ever done that with guys i’ve gone on dates with and had a real connection

I don't know about modern young women, but men in my day kissed more girls than they fooled around with. If that's inverted for you, then you ARE hooking up with men.

how am i supposed to feel comfortable ever telling him anything?

You aren't, because this guy isn't for you. Hon, what you're doing right now (or SHOULD be doing) is VETTING him. And his current behavior suggests that he's not the right partner for you.

reddishrobin · 2023-04-05T09:10:13+00:00

Why on earth would you put up with a relationship with an insecure abuser like him? You deserve better and I hope you realise that and move on. Part of good vetting is checking for insecurity and abuse. He is a red flag.

IMendicantBias · 2023-04-05T14:27:40+00:00

i said 3. he asked who, i avoided telling who exactly for an hour

it happened before i even met him. he really cares about his reputation

Yall have to stop lying to avoid certain emotions. I will honestly say from this moment on if you think a lie needs to be told leave the relationship. Men value truth, don't worry about how we feel. Don't be a bitch in how you say things but bluntly, concisely, be honest. How are you suppose to have a solid foundation while lying and withholding information your partner cares about? What does it look like for your man to be the only one not know this? You think about how the other man are feeling being in on this while your man is clueless? Women have zero conceptualization the psychological power men before her current has on him. Which is why this is extremely important for us.

Anything happens to you everybody will be looking at him. No man wants to put his life at risk for a woman who'll replace him without concern. He has higher pressure to perform good, more types of guys to worry about. Be clowned by a group of guys she's been with for taking her seriously. There is so much on our side yall don't bother to learn

Whenever it feels uncomfortable to tell the truth is time to be vulnerable. If you or any other woman doesn't feel confident and proud to wear the number of men on her forehead then you should probably stop. You an every woman reading this would do significantly better with men by being honest with yourselves . Expecting protection and comfort from an emotionally invested man while simultaneously telling deep lies is the danger women consistently put themselves in.

Jenneapolis · 2023-04-05T17:27:09+00:00

And this is why I never engage in these types of conversations. No matter what your answer is, it’s not going to please him and will always lead to an argument and more questions. I always just shut this down without giving numbers or details. I realize not everyone agrees with me on this but I’ve never seen this conversation go well.

cluelessgirl111 · 2023-04-05T19:16:53+00:00

i’m so sorry you went through this experience:(, tbh there’s nothing you can’t do about it. kudos to you for being so stoic the whole time with him and not letting him see his words affected you. it’s not really a ladylike conversation, it’s hurtful when someone you feel for calls you such things. i personally don’t see the appeal of the conversation, when i met my bf i knew he had prior lovers and what not and i never wanted to know or ask about it. it’s his past!, what’s he supposed to do about it? the only reasonable thing is that i either accept it or not. i been with him for so long that i’m part of his past, im his present and hopefully his future. we actually only spoke about it in a debate kind of way because we know it’s so common to ask, when i knew i was like okay. but later that day i did share i got a bit insecure, that i worry he’ll miss someone or whatever and he reassured me and i felt better and i moved on lolll. i understand you when it comes to him saying it matters how his girlfriend makes him look and his overall reputation. my boyfriend also cares about this and tbh i don’t understand it very well (the importance of third party opinions on his personal relationship). i think the friend thing broke it for him because if he’s that worried about looks he thinks he’ll be made fun of for dating someone that his friend already “had something with” even if it was in the past, there’s people that do think like this. i personally would never date anyone who was a friend’s fling or let alone ex. give yourself time, a hug and surround yourself with ppl who love you no matter what

Equivalent-Poem-3461 · 2023-04-06T00:18:29+00:00

Honestly, I don't like giving this kind of advice but I'd never advise any of the women in my life to go back to a man who'd kick them out onto the street.

Do you have a place to go that's close by and does he know that? If he's leaving you out on the street then move on. You can't feel safe with such a man.

Also as I said in the previous post, if you're having these conversations about the past then that relationship is as good as gone imo.

CountTheBees · 2023-04-06T13:02:46+00:00

I don't think anyone has address your last question: "how am i supposed to feel comfortable ever telling him anything?"

You tried being honest with this guy, he blew up over a genuine mistake, which made you cautious to tell him any more details, and he blew up again because you didn't answer him. Then you gave him some milder details to see if he'd gotten his emotions under control - and he blew up again, worse than before.

This will understandably make you very hesitant to tell any man anything else in the future ever again, especially if they're curious about how many men you've been with, which sounds like a low number that did not warrant any of this drama. The way you worded it in your last post made it sound like the number of men you gave BJs to increased the body count but from the comments here, it seems like it didn't. Regardless, let's get some home truths out of the way:

all men care about your N count, but not all men will ask, perhaps for fear of upsetting you or for fear of it being too high. Some men would prefer just to not know. Ignorance is bliss. Men might not even know why they care about it, they just know that they do. That said, if a man asks, acting like he has no right to ask is a bad move. He has the right to ask, if he's vetting you for a life long commitment. You also have the right to not answer - but if you don't - consider the relationship over, because now he can't trust you. So decide your boundaries very carefully.
oral sex also counts as sex. You should have just said, the number I already told you doesn't change if I include oral, and I'm not going into any more details. Your intuition was right - and getting into nitty gritty details of what you did with sexual partners is never a good idea. Giving him too many graphic details may disgust him to the point that your relationship is over anyway.
all men will get upset if you kissed their male friend or acquaintance or boss in the past, and didn't tell them about it until long after the relationship started. He needs to know these things so that he never mentions you carelessly around the other guy. Imagine if he brought up your name in a conversation and it was obvious to the other guy that he didn't know that you two had kissed. It could make it look like you still hold a flame for the other guy, just because you tried to keep the kiss a secret from your bf and he spoke about you. Naming a guy's past flame that you're currently dating is a wannabe-AMOG power move and doesn't reflect well on the guy doing it. So if your bf is casually mentioning your name, and the other guy interprets it as as a challenge or a social faux pas and says, "look I'm glad you two are happy. I just want you to know there's nothing more between us". Your bf would be justified in flipping out because of you witholding this info from him and a) making him look like an ass in public or b) making your relationship look weak in public.

The problem with "not telling" or "lying" is that you will never feel loved for who you are. You'll always be second guessing, "does he love me for me, or will he dump me once he finds out?" And that's not a good way to live if you're neurotic like I am. Most women do want to be loved in a warts-and-all kind of way. So I'd actually suggest that you do be honest if you want to be loved for who you are.

Most men are not this guy. Most men won't aggressively react to the truth like he did. Anyone that does react aggressively is not worth your time.

Should you have been honest with this guy? Eh... He had so many red flags with his jealousy that it wouldn't have gone well even if you were a virgin. In one of your comments you said he got angry at you that other men looked at you. So I'd put it down as primarily a him problem (you two are over, right?), and just keep in mind for next time what men care about, what men need to know, and what the man in question does not want or need to know.

weezy-13 · 2023-04-14T08:24:44+00:00

You aren't gross and its horrible you think that

This guy is the biggest asshole and this conversation has shown you who he really is.

Do you really want to set up your life with this man, you deserve better and please don't ever let anyone tell you how to dress.

He sounds controlling RUN

alxjones · 2023-04-05T14:35:52+00:00

Or he knows you’re lying

Thiccsmartie · 2023-04-05T11:27:44+00:00

He watched too much andrew tate&co

Obj3ctivePerspective · 2023-04-05T13:16:09+00:00

I feel for you but what does this have to do with being a redpillwoman? Red pill on both sides have turned into people that are just completely lost and don't even know what it means. If you think being belittled, embarrassed and abused has anything to do with being red pilled then I'm sorry someone led you astray. Most posts I see in red pill community for men or women are just some straight toxic shit or people letting themselves be abused. If you need advice on what to do after a man or woman is treating you like shit then you don't need to be in that relationship or possibly any atm until you work on you and figure out who you are, what you want and are willing to accept.

indivisibleremainder · 2023-04-05T14:00:33+00:00

You should check out r/retroactivejealousy to read some anecdotes of people either behaving the way you describe this guy behaves, or being on the receiving end of such behavior. It's one thing to have "standards", or whatever, but there is also such thing as having a pathological obsession with the past, obsessed with the details (how many guys, where, what did you do!? etc.). If you ever decided to be in a relationship with a person suffering from "retroactive jealousy", you need to know what you're getting into.

Agreeable-Comedian24 · 2023-04-05T12:18:17+00:00

Your past is your past, you are not gross. A good well adjusted man would never interrogate you like that. You are right his behavior is pushing abuse. Move on with your life and find a man who respects you. There’s nothing left to go back to with him.

cohost3 · 2023-04-05T12:22:30+00:00

Just because body count and reputation mattered to him, doesn’t mean it will matter to every guy. There is a guy out there who won’t care, he’s just not that guy.

Let go and move on.

nyanvi · 2023-04-05T20:30:05+00:00

please give me advice on how to handle this.

Unless you are prepared to stroke his ego and be abused for the rest of your relationship I'd advise you just walk away.

The goal is to look for a manly man.

Being petty and cruel is not being manly.

You are supposed to look for a provider/caretaker not an abuser.

Abuse escalates... Keep that in mind OP.

zaftig_stig · 2023-04-05T15:13:07+00:00

He sounds incredibly unhealthy. I know you're grieving it ending, but in the long term, I think you will look back and be GRATEFUL he showed his true colors.

AbhorrentlyKawaii · 2023-04-05T19:05:23+00:00

Ma'am. You've sucked more dicks than you've kissed guys. Under 10 dicks is quite a lot of dicks. I'm not saying you a hoe, but damn. What kind of sexual history does this guy have?

mashov516 · 2023-04-05T14:02:20+00:00

„real connection” lol

so you give 3 times more bj’s than kisses

for males your past does matter

it’s cruel but I would advise you to lie about your bodycount

willowaverie · 2023-04-05T14:39:26+00:00

Wow, he’s being a jerk. I wonder what the actual issue is for him.

Dehydrated_Jellyfish · 2023-04-05T15:44:40+00:00

He’s insecure, but you gave partial info that heightened his insecurity. It’s a crazy world out there where guys assume women divided their partner count by 1/3. I went on a few dates with a 39 year old virgin and he was only man who asked me. He didn’t ask blow jobs. He didn’t ask kisses. That’s a maturity difference. It’s best to never answer this question with numbers but behavior. Like, I’ve always delayed sex, rejected sexual advances from men I didn’t know well and I’ve been with very few men on any sexual context. Instead of saying ‘I went on dates withI’m say ‘I went on sexual or a lot of dates.’ If someone pushes for a number, say that the information provides nothing useful for the relationship and all they need to know is virgin, or prostitute. I suggest skipping this guy so he can date a virgin, take her virginity and then call her a hoe when she’s not a virgin anymore.

ivysaurah · 2023-04-05T12:38:05+00:00

Im sorry this happened to you. Just be sure that you end things with him here. This is a major red flag. It sounds like he is the type to be obsessive, possessive, and therefore has a higher potential for violence. What he did is not normal. Do not go back. Move on, please.

Also, if he has an issue with your body count that isn’t going to go away. Go find a man who sees no issue in it. There’s no point in pursuing a man who’s obviously making you feel disgusting for something you cannot change.

edit: Downvote me all you want but his reaction was emotionally charged, a stable man doesn’t react in this way and a happy woman doesn’t respond fearfully. I married my husband with a very low count of 2 people. I think honesty is best. But if someone punishes you for honesty, that is a red flag.

DunboyCastleInTheSky · 2023-04-05T14:06:26+00:00

This man is abusive. There’s not any advice that will keep him from acting shitty. A real hvm would be able to tell from your mannerisms if your body count is low and wouldn’t ask for specifics like this.

AutoModerator · 2023-04-05T08:04:00+00:00

Title: body count issue UPDATE

Full text: UPDATE - he asked me again about how many guys i’ve given bj’s to & i just said under 10, i don’t think this is a healthy convo, i’ve only ever done that with guys i’ve gone on dates with and had a real connection - i don’t want to go into specifics. he said “so 9 guys” i said no & i reminded how long i made him wait and he said “just bc u waited with me doesn’t mean that’s how u acted in the past” i said well, that’s how i acted. he then asked if i had done that with any guys between my last relationship and him - i said no. which is true. then he asked me how many guys i’ve kissed - i said 3. he asked who, i avoided telling who exactly for an hour & he said i was being dramatic and if i would just tell him we could move on. finally i told him, he was fine with two of them and then i said a guy he knew. he said “this is why i don’t trust you, you’re a liar. you said you’ve never hooked up with any of my friends. you’re gross. get the fuck out of my house” i just said ok and left. i did not expect that reaction. it was only a kiss with a guy that i’ve known for years (who yes kisses a lot of girls) and it happened before i even met him. he really cares about his reputation and talks about how his gf makes him look and that’s why he doesn’t want me to dress to slutty (which he may have a point about) so i think he was seeing it through that lease. anyways. he kicked me out. i just left. i’ve been crying for hours. i don’t understand why he’s treating me like i’m a hoe. i’m really not. i feel so insecure and like this is so unfair. i’m not sure what to do. to me “hook up” means more than kiss. i honestly am so upset please give me advice on how to handle this. i’m stuck between going back and forth that he’s being abusive & looking for fights & doesn’t actually think i’m gross and feeling like maybe i am gross and a liar and have ruined this relationship. i didn’t meant to be dramatic but like damn how am i supposed to feel comfortable ever telling him anything?

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Joodropinn · 2023-04-05T20:52:39+00:00

You handle this by staying far far away from this wanker.

LookingForEquanimity · 2023-04-05T14:14:40+00:00

You were not dramatic and I hope you never speak to this person ever again.

angelicasinensis · 2023-04-05T14:17:02+00:00

Your dodging a bullet here.

Kyonkanno · 2023-04-05T15:01:53+00:00

Honestly, you dodged a bullet. If he's so insecure about this stuff he's gonna have a hard time dating.

AmaranthSolid · 2023-04-05T20:29:47+00:00

This guy sounds toxic af

Bumblebee-Flying · 2023-04-05T14:35:32+00:00

Don't beat yourself up about this, also don't think you need to reason with him because frankly he's being unreasonable. I was in a similar situation once and the man wanted information on my past so he could use that as leverage to control me in a very abusive and unhealthy way. Reading this instantly brought me back to that and I just wanted to say run from this man and do not look back or wonder what you did wrong. It's him.

You can't change your past, if you have a high body count or not, the best thing to do is keep that information to yourself and only share with someone if there is a reason for it (not likely) and you trust them completely.

32vromeo · 2023-04-05T14:20:01+00:00

I’m a little confused. So giving a bj to 9 guys is fine but making out with 3 is a red flag? Or was it the idea that he knows one of the guys you’ve kissed which must be a guy you’ve given a bj, etc to? Men can be very territorial when it comes to women they love. Either way, I think you’re doing fine in insisting on establishing a connection with guys you’re intimate with. I don’t worry for your future

WishGullible5142 · 2023-04-05T19:23:23+00:00

There are two ways( maybe more) to go about this when asked..

1 is as others have mentioned, make your pass off limits and present yourself as someone private and discrete when it comes to sex and pass relationships.

As long as you don't have a long record or life throws you a curve ball that may come and bite you down the line, it should not present a problem.

2 is to be brutally honest, with no hesitation, and don't skip a beat. At the very least, he will know you are honest and truthful with him, irrelevant of how he feels.

The bright side of this is If you stay together, most situations related to relationships or sex can be handled a bit easier since he is already informed of your past.

i’m stuck between going back and forth that he’s being abusive & looking for fights & doesn’t actually think i’m gross and feeling like maybe i am gross and a liar and have ruined this relationship. i didn’t meant to be dramatic but like damn how am i supposed to feel comfortable ever telling him anything?

I am not sure either of you are both 100% to blame. On the one hand, it seems you try to protect his feelings and your image, and on the other, he was not mature enough to handle the truth.

I'll say to take this as a lesson and find a better man

alaskabunny · 2023-04-05T21:34:42+00:00

Why are these posts allowed in this sub?

SnooDogs627 · 2023-04-05T21:41:07+00:00

Imo only abusive and manipulative guys care about body count. They're at the very least the only men who ask you about body count then use it against you. I had an ex that didn't matter who I dated while we broke up (on and off four five years highly toxic abusive relationship) it was always disgusting and that I'm a slut.

Glad-Enthusiasm6690 · 2023-04-06T08:29:24+00:00

Youre not suppose to feel comfortable if youve done despicable things and men decide what that is so… life is life

aussiedollface2 · 2023-04-06T12:44:27+00:00

I think you’re incompatible. It is what it is.

RationalFemale · 2023-04-07T16:22:42+00:00

In the future be sure to state I make rules for EVERYONE. Those are my boundaries. It doesn’t mean I don’t want to rip your clothes off, but it weeds off bad men and I have a track record of dating great men.

If you want to get red pill on his ass since he’s throwing it at you by saying “idk if you made rules for men in your past or whatever it was lol”

I make rules for EVERYONE. I don’t mess with losers who want to use me for sexual pleasure-without commitment. It’s not my thing. I understand by making rules you think I lack genuine desire but that’s not the case- and I would appreciate it if you applied red pill to your own life and not a bunch of guys on the internet you don’t know personally. Men want variety and the easiest access to unlimited sexuality- that’s what “KORN”is for. But our “sexual strategies” will always collide. Those are my boundaries. It doesn’t mean I don’t want to rip your clothes off, but it weeds off bad men and I have a track record of dating great men.

Bonus: Men always exaggerate how many women they slept with. Did he sleep with me? No. My rules are clearly evident. Wasnt attracted to him PERIOD. It was an oops.

Xoxo -torshaa

Title	body count issue UPDATE
Author	Sarahhartttt
Upvotes	24
Comments	109
Date	April 5, 2023 8:04 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/RedPillWomen
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/12ccu1r/body_count_issue_update/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/RedPillWomen/body-count-issue-update.1218513 https://theredarchive.com/post/1218513

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