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philbob8
[+][deleted] 14 years ago (33 children) | Copy Link
[permanently deleted]
[–]thegavin 57 points58 points59 points 14 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link
I cringed seeing that.
[–]oneiorosgrip 35 points36 points37 points 14 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link
Not surprise to see "womyn" used on a teen site... just disgusted that it came from an admin. Hell, if you think that's bad, you should read some of the writing on the site.
Well, no. It would turn your stomach. I'm not even leaving a link. :/
[–]Alanna 33 points34 points35 points 14 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link
I went and peeked myself. Even assuming OP's not a troll, this is a bad example because if people get the idea we have to lift screenshots (five year old screen shots) from obscure radical pro-teen pregnancy sites to prove our point, they're not going to think we have much of one
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
I hadn't even noticed that this was five years old. Hmm.
[–]Alanna 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Nor had I, honestly, until I came across the bottom comment, where some poor person who had noticed and pointed it out was being heavily downvoted. Weirdly, my defenses of her (or him, but I suspect her for some reason) were being upvoted last I checked.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
That is weird. Why was that comment being downvoted?
[–]Alanna 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Because she was being dismissive of the post and was pretty rude in her replies, I would guess.
[–]funnyfaceking 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
much of one what?
[–]helleborus 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
A point.
[–]Alanna 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Much of a point, or argument.
[–]funnyfaceking 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
thank you
[+][deleted] -27 points-26 points-25 points 14 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Good gods... I just had to upvote someone on /r/mensrights. slow clap
[–]Alanna 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Thanks, I guess? It's not like the exact same statement (that sexism is only against women) can't be found on the Finally Feminism 101 FAQ and numerous other "official" feminist sources and textbooks and so forth.
[+][deleted] -21 points-20 points-19 points 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
What? You guys are angry that someone validated one of your own, who was trying to specifically not make this subreddit sound invalid?
[–]Lecks 21 points22 points23 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
We're just a bit annoyed that people are under the assumption this subreddit is invalid by default.
But hey, they're just /r/mensrights downvotes, it's not like they matter to you.
[–]Doctor_Loggins 5 points6 points7 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Downvotes are for comments that don't contribute to the conversation. Your comment adds nothing, and comes off as shitty and snarky as well. Coming to the r/mensrights subreddit and then implying that you either don't vote or regularly downvote on general principle will not endear you to the subreddit. Telling Reddit at large that you upvoted or downvoted something is generally frowned upon - we can see that because of how many points a post has or does not have. It's an unwritten social rule of Reddit. The exception is when you're pointing out a specific part of a post that you really liked (such as "upvoted for obscure ___ reference" or "upvoted for tits" or "Downvoted for factual inaccuracy. Hitler was never a birthday clown.")
So, no, it's not the fact that you upvoted this person who is clearly trying to keep our standards high. It's the fact that you sounded like an arrogant prick while you did it, and contributed nothing else to the conversation.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Downvoted for factual inaccuracy. Hitler was never a birthday clown
Please tell me this came from an actual conversation. That would make my day.
[–]Doctor_Loggins 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
If only...
[–]Yosuke_Hanamura 103 points104 points105 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
"This space is for womyn only..."
Yeah, that was a bad sign
[–]alaysian 7 points8 points9 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
that is the point you leave, because nothing more you could do there would be worth your time
[–]bchris24 13 points14 points15 points 14 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
I thought it was a typo, then it hit me and I knew some jimmies were about to get rustled.
[–]TracyMorganFreeman 6 points7 points8 points 14 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Jimmies is treating the male moniker as the norm, we need a gender neutral term /s
[–]bchris24 11 points12 points13 points 14 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Jimmys, its got a y in it so it can pertain to women too.
[+][deleted] 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]IllThinkOfOneLater 13 points14 points15 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
*Jymmys
[–]Yosuke_Hanamura 7 points8 points9 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
*yyyyys
[–]Doctor_Loggins 8 points9 points10 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Ironic that they chose the y, seeing as that's the name of the male chromosome...
[–]rocketman0739 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Also kind of ironic that they thought the "men" part was sexist when that Old English root primarily means "human", like German "Mensch".
[–]puppetry514 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Oh god... why
[–]RyanLikesyoface 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Where does that term come from?
[+][deleted] 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]RyanLikesyoface 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
That's fucking ridiculous. Funny they choose y though, considering y is the male chromosome. Now I understand why everyone on SRS says "Womyn". Misandrist bullshit.
[–]Deadeyeguy 53 points54 points55 points 14 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link
This is why I hope feminism fails, or at least, realizes is it's in the wrong. I hope for a future where theres NO discrimination based on differences, and for a long time, I believed feminism was fighting for this. The majority of people I see standing in the way, while simultaneously declaring "discrimination is bad" are feminists themselves. Feminism seems to have this (possibly unintended result) that discrimination is perfectly fine and hella empowering (as you can see in the post), as long as you’re not the perceived “power”: ie male (patriarchy). As Philbob(and many many others) has pointed out, is really a major problem that needs to be addressed. How can we help change anything, if the ones “claiming to end discrimination” are acting in very sexist, discriminating ways. This is one of the main reasons I became an MRA, If feminism is acting in ways that’s discriminating (and claiming that its not) than yes, men will become resentful, and will more likely find refuge with other men, who share the same experience, of being shamed: “having so much power, so STFU, you misogynist beta-male,” “What about the menz!” Discrimination, when it comes down to it, everyone regardless of power, race, gender, religion, everything that separates us from each other, HURTS. It’s plain and simple bigotry.
[–]ssjaken 5 points6 points7 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
I am reminded of the NAACP forcing Hallmark to remove a talking graduation card. Watching the news report, I had an epiphany. What happens to an advocacy group when they have achieved their goal of acceptance?
They meddle and ruin shit.
[–]Alanna 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
What happens to an advocacy group when they have achieved their goal of acceptance? They meddle and ruin shit.
What happens to an advocacy group when they have achieved their goal of acceptance?
The question becomes self-answering when you rephrase it as, "Why would people whose job it is to make money off solving a problem (especially a nebulous and non-falsifiable problem) ever really want to solve it?"
[–]ssjaken 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Sounds like the TSA's MO.
I am reminded of the NAACP forcing Hallmark to remove a talking graduation card.
What? Link?
[+][deleted] -10 points-9 points-8 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
This is the path that many women have to walk before understanding that feminism=gender equality rather than feminism=superiority over men. It is my perception that when women first understand how deep-seated and permeating patriarchy really is, we tend to lash out like this.
[–]Lecks 7 points8 points9 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
First show there is a Patriarchy.
[–]Deadeyeguy 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
Oh, I totally understand that mentality. Anger is a product to waking ourselves up from the roles, that were forced into something that we have no way of escaping.
My anger and fear is that since cis-men are labeled as the "maniacal oppressors," that any moment of speaking our feelings or concerns of their roles, are blasted with "aw poor mysogonist, he's just afraid he cant control any weak women, hes not really feeling any pain." As if my life, my entire being is revolves around oppressing women, and I don't deserve to express my worries or concerns. And to do so would be to ridicule/mock women world wide.
Your point is important here, that I will exemplify: a woman, who expresses anger and mysandry(yes I know all women aren't like this) is justified, "she should be angry, and besides, mysandry doesn't hurt anyone, its not even a word, and if it is, its because its mens (our) fault." An angry man, who isn't a misogynistic (and yes, I know there are some men that are mysogonists) are not only labeled as misogynistic, but a cry baby, and he should man up to the justified hatred that comes his way." Men aren't aloud to be angry, with their roles in society, or their stereotypes, to be angry may lead to a possible arrest. We're constantly bombarded with "oh you're not forced into anything, youre on the easiest setting of life, life to you is a cakewalk, so here, lets just take away your children, cause you're possibly harmful to them, you potential rapist."
*edit: just wanted to refine. Edit 2: This will give you insight on how well received speaking our voices are: http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/utu8n/how_can_i_talk_about_the_mrm_without_getting/
[+][deleted] 14 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]Deadeyeguy 11 points12 points13 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I don't believe that at all. I think as humans we become blinded by anger and ideas.
[–]Deadeyeguy 12 points13 points14 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I wonder what percentage of negative ideas within movements have been perpetuated by trolls.
[–]YHWH_The_Lord 16 points17 points18 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Humans in general are fucking stupid.
[–]t1w 7 points8 points9 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Amen.
[–]lord_nougat 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I for one welcome our new robotic overlords.
[–]MRMRising 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
There are plenty of male feminists that go along with there thinking, I don't think I have to list them here. Besides, RadFems make up a tiny percentage of the feminist movement. The problem is that feminism is more vocal than the MRM, we need to turn up the volume to the people in power.
[–]SageInTheSuburbs 51 points52 points53 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
As long as they deny that it's even possible to be sexist against men, they can be as discriminating and hateful against men as they like without devaluing themselves. It's a stripping away of male humanity.
[+][deleted] -12 points-11 points-10 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
The difference with woman discriminating against men is that men still hold a privilege that is ingrained in the social structure of society. An analogy: it's the same reason that cracker doesn't offend white people, but the n word offends black people. I'm not saying that men can't be discriminated against. What I'm saying is that ultimately the power is on men to get rid of their privilege and then neither gender will face discrimination.
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I don't think "cracker" is any less offensive than "nigger".
[–]rhinestones 24 points25 points26 points 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
I've encountered this in other places too. Apparently sexism isn't merely one individual treating another specially due to their sex, rather some kind of institutional bias. Thus, a woman who hates all men and yells obscenities at them, keys their cars, etc. wouldn't be being sexist. And apparently a man treating a woman badly is always sexism, even if it's some individual thing he has against another individual who happens to be female. I admit my mind just leaves the building at this point in trying to make sense of how this concept could be useful.
[–]Alanna 16 points17 points18 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
It is only "useful" (if you can call it that) in the context of the larger paradigm of men as an oppressor class and women as an oppressed class. Thus, all acts of any man against any woman are extensions of his class privilege over her as an oppressor, and any acts of a woman against a man are steps she is taking to break free of her male oppressors.
[–]loose-dendrite 9 points10 points11 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Nailed it.
Unfortunately the sort of person who believes these things isn't going to listen to opposing viewpoints or question their own. Even if right now the US were patriarchy, these people literally cannot realize it when it stops being a patriarchy.
[–]dakru 5 points6 points7 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Yep. It's all-or-nothing thinking that lets them think of everything in black and white. Men = evil and oppressor, women = victim and good.
[–]rhinestones 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Personally my problem with being treated like this in a variety of ways is that it robs me of agency, at least in others' eyes. When my action is explained not as a unique response to the current situation and my past experience (including many things nobody else can know) but simply as something simplistic as being white, a chemical imbalance, etc. I feel numb and like I don't exist anymore. I grew up with a parent who did this kind of thing constantly and my attempts to argue that it wasn't due to their explanation were met with further claims that I was in denial about them being right. That I wanted to look at all possibilities, not just theirs, was taken as evidence that I was refusing that theirs could be right. It's maddening to deal with people who use this kind of thing as a way to avoid having to actually examine a situation with an open mind. It also hurts because I really care about people and want to understand what's happening, but don't want to settle for simplistic explanations that erase things going on for some parties.
[–]Lothrazar 43 points44 points45 points 14 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link
Its the same as saying "it is not possible to be racist against white people"
[–]qwerty133 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
It's also the same as saying "It is not possible to be racist against black people." And in a lot of ways that is a more representative analogy of the situation men face.
[–]servohahn 8 points9 points10 points 14 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
Some people make the distinction of discrimination against groups that traditionally have a higher degree of power (sometimes called "reverse discrimination") vs. discrimination of groups that are traditionally have a lower degree of power. The differences between those two types of discrimination vary depending on who you ask and the impact can also vary.
However, as society progresses, the impact of those types of discrimination seem to converge. I think this tends to upset those in groups who are more "traditionally" discriminated against because the victim is seen to have a higher position or moral authority, which they now have to share with those who they consider to be their victimizers.
[–]SarahC 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Coming from a science background, discrimination doesn't mean what it means to them...
[+]BatmansDad -22 points-21 points-20 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Oh please
[–]loose-dendrite 13 points14 points15 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The dead should be silent.
[+]MrLaughter -36 points-35 points-34 points 14 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link
How can one be racist against white people? Would it be racist to assume a white person is well-off? Can you give me an example?
[–]Stratisphear 31 points32 points33 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
As a student, I see it a lot. "You don't need Financial Aid, you're white!"
[–]MrLaughter 12 points13 points14 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
perfect example, thank you.
[–]servohahn 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
"White people are not allowed to enter this establishment."
That would be an example of a policy which is racist towards white people. And yes, it would be considered racist to assume that a white person is well off because of their whiteness.
[–]intrepiddemise 6 points7 points8 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Since no-one has explained it to you yet, I'll give it a shot. Stereotypes are bad, regardless of whether the stereotype is referencing a positive or negative trait. Saying that "Asians are good at math", for instance, would be racism, because it's based upon a stereotype, albeit a positive one. Similarly, saying that "whites are rich" is also racism, as it generalizes an entire group based upon a stereotype. Keep in mind that there are plenty of poor Caucasians, and that stereotypes like this one can be very damaging to them.
[–]rocketman0739 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Correction: saying that "Asians are often good at math" would not really be racist, as it's just statistics. What would be racist would be saying "You're Asian, so you must be good at math".
[–]intrepiddemise 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Getting back to the context of the comment I replied to, assuming that someone is good at math because they are Asian would be racist. The commenter asked "would it be racist to assume a white person is well-off?"
[–]Deacon 15 points16 points17 points 14 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
How can one be racist against white people?
Downvoted for sheer, unmitigated idiocy.
[–]MrLaughter 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
I ask to be educated and you put me down for asking, something others may be too scared to ask because of negative responses like yours. Downvoted for not contributing to the conversation.
[–]Deacon 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
If you were black and you called a white person a "cracker," for instance, that would be racist. Not as racist as if the white person called the black person a "nigger," but still racist.
[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
disclaimer: non us redditor using phone. Tell me why something is ignorant if I say it and forgive punctuation errors.
Wouldnt it be just as racist, just not as offensive? That being said, what is racist about the word nigger anyway? What makes it racist but negro acceptable? I'm aware just how offensive it supposedly is but I have no idea why. As far as I know it just means African American which is what negro also means and I see nothing offensive about that. I could see the racism if someone said 'i don't want niggers living in my street' but I don't see whats racist about the nigger word itself.
[–]rocketman0739 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Wouldnt it be just as racist, just not as offensive?
That's probably a better description.
That being said, what is racist about the word nigger anyway? What makes it racist but negro acceptable?
It's really the history of the terms. Both of them--in a technical, etymological sense--just mean "black", but they have been used in very different ways and so they have radically different connotations.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
So the word doesn't mean anything bad, it just means what it is African American and the only reason people use it is because historically it has been used in a derogative manner. I was thinking about how it seemed unusual for people to get so upset over getting called a word that they are, just because of the context the word used to be called in. I was thinking it's like a gay person getting upset over being called gay instead of homosexual but then I realised it's probably more along the lines of a gay person being called a faggot.
[–]dakru 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
To be fair, the guy got an example and accepted it, not denying the idea.
[–]Malkor 104 points105 points106 points 14 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link
This space is for womyn only"
mike should have just left
I can safely say that you bitches are fucked up
ugh good job mike
[–]cainunable 15 points16 points17 points 14 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
Yeah, that was probably not the best way to handle the situation. They had made it clear that that was a women only space, and I believe that is a fair request. (Having male only, and everyone allowed spaces are also fine.)
It looks more like he was going to a forum that by name was targeted at females, and decided to start a fight.
[+][deleted] 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]cainunable 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Yes, while her reply was ignorant and sexist, his reply was equally as stupid and only served to increase the divide and reinforce any sexist thoughts she had against men.
[–]thebetrayer 7 points8 points9 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
When I read it, I thought that he was trolling them just to get this reaction.
[–]Alanna 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
If I was the mod/admin, I would have privately messaged him or emailed him telling him the situation, and removed his thread/locked his account. No need to make that drama public.
[–]thegreatmisanthrope 6 points7 points8 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
People like those on that forum thrive on drama.
[–]Malkor 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
What really kinda got my goatwas that I know some 'mike' people who also are actually named Michela or Michelle. They just assumed, and nobody fucking wins now.
[–]McFurious 35 points36 points37 points 14 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
Well, he's absolutely right.
[–]thedevguy 49 points50 points51 points 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
he's absolutely right
He's right to be angry, but he lost the high ground there. Everyone should take a lesson from that exchange and be smarter than Mike was. The way he handled it distracts from the issue we want to focus on.
[–]zeppoleon 8 points9 points10 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yep. It just gives them a reason to hate him when he should of acted nonchalant so he could push his argument subtly without causing a riot.
[–]Corsaer 11 points12 points13 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I would disagree. It's just strong language. I think he handled it fine. He wasn't trying to argue with them, or persuade them, or represent men's rights. He wasn't even trying to make an example out of them. He's even said he looked through their other posts to come to that conclusion. He left a single sentence with a couple of curse words to illustrate his feelings. What's so wrong with that? I think his response is a fine way to respond to someone who is insulting and bigoted towards a person with no provocation.
[–]MrClean75 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I agree with you but human nature is what is working against Mike at this point. As soon as he lost his 'neutral' tone, his profanity made their pride/anger/etc flare up and they stop listening to anything he has to say. It's like watching a verbal argument escalate to a gun fight. There's no going back from an escalation like that.
[–]ssjaken 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You guys keep referring to him as just "Mike", makes me feel like I am in a 70's drivers ed class and you're showing us a video on the importance of yielding.
"Now class, what did Mike do wrong here? RIGHT he failed to YIIIIEEEEELLLLLD...M'kay"
[–]Tom_from_Accounting 17 points18 points19 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Yeah, I agree but properly socialized human beings know how to keep their thoughts to themselves, That is until they're given anonymity and a keyboard.
[–]phukka 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
"I think it's safe to assume that I shouldn't be taking parenting advice from people who obviously don't believe men have any place as parents."
I think that's all that should've been said before he left.
[–]tazman2087 11 points12 points13 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Note that the person saying "It's impossible to be sexist against men" is a 20 years old. Wise beyond her years I'm sure.
[–]YHWH_The_Lord 23 points24 points25 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Whenever i see the word woman spelled "womyn", i immediately go into sarcasm mode and stop taking anything they say seriously because their opinion no longer matters.
[–]Purple_Streak 9 points10 points11 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
See, you're learning already. lol
twitch
[–]woot2000 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
resists urge to break chair
[–]Overtoast 29 points30 points31 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
You missed some other stuff in that thread as well, like how he was insulted and eventually banned for suggesting sexism is possible against men.
[–]Ghee_Buttersnaps_ 37 points38 points39 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
And just by doing that, they proved that there is sexism against men. The irony! It burns!
[–]FascistOrigami 16 points17 points18 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I think it's OK to have spaces that are for women only, but "womyn" are the first ones to howl when men want spaces for men only.
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It's an old image, the red circles were already there; OP just uploaded it to imgur.
[–][deleted] 8 points9 points10 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
What if some man is subjected to misandry, is suicidal because of it and stumbles upon such a viper's nest? These people obviously have no regard for men whatsoever. Imagine a man who has been beaten by his wife stumbling upon SRS. They'd tell him "misandry don't real" and all of that troll bullshit. When suicidal that can push a man over the edge. Some of them actually told one MRA to off himself when he was clearly suicidal.
[–]AtheistConservative 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
While this picture has always pissed me off, I don't want to see the MR movement follow feminism.
What if some man is subjected to misandry, is suicidal because of it and stumbles upon such a viper's nest?
There are enough real issues out there, let's not worry about what people on the internet say.
[–]kragmoor 62 points63 points64 points 14 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link
sexism is a system that privileged men over other genders
... are there more than two genders now?
[+][deleted] 14 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
[–]PuppyPuppies 12 points13 points14 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I'm not an expert on the subject so someone who is more educated should feel free to correct me on the specifics, but even in regards to sex, there are people who are born intersex, so even treating sex as a dichotomy is technically incorrect, isn't it?
[–]ExpendableOne 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
Gender is the role that society assigns to the sexes, and this varies wildly.
Those would be "gender roles" or "gender expectations", not "gender". "Gender roles" are socially fabricated, and vary from culture to culture though they are still virtually always associated to either male or female. As far as human biology is concerned, gender generally refers to what you would call sex: male and female(unless you count a lack of gender; whether from physical anomalies or birth defects). "Gender", in respect to languages, does reflect these concepts of masculine, feminine or neutral more often than not but should still not be confused with biological gender. "Gender identity" is another term that seems to be confused with the word "gender" but the two are different things. Gender, or sex if you will, is something that you are born with and that cannot be changed; nor is it exclusively defined by one's genitals. A woman is still a woman even if she acts in a way that is typically associated with masculinity, if she loses her female reproductive capabilities, if she believes herself to be a man or even changes her physiology to appear like a man; and vice-versa.
[+][deleted] 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]servohahn 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
there are these things call chromosomes and they determine your gender.
No, gender is a social construct. It is determined by society and culture.
Sex is determined by chromosomes.
That's what NiceIce was attempting to articulate.
[–]t1w 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
TIL Depending on the context, the describing characteristics vary from sex to social roles (gender roles) to gender identity.
[–]Stratisphear 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Yah, pretty much. This is a great video on the subject.
[–]jesster114 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
That's a really great video. Sadly the volume was so low it was hard to hear over traffic while watching on my phone. I'll have to watch this at home and definitely pass it on
[–]Stratisphear 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
She does a lot of great stuff about body image and gender identity for men and women. Well worth looking into.
[–]Deacon -4 points-3 points-2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Nope.
[–]Unenjoyed -4 points-3 points-2 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Yes, and tax breaks for job creators drives the economy. /r/sarcasm.
[–]kragmoor 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
i'm 17 and what is this?
[–]Unenjoyed -3 points-2 points-1 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Gender went from being a purely grammatical reference to something rather convoluted in the span of just a couple of decades. It's sort of like the phrase "job creator." That phrase used to have clear meaning, but now the GOP convoluted it into a euphemism that means my-rich-pals, but we're all supposed to believe otherwise. I'm probably guilty of conflation, too.
[–]carchamp1 6 points7 points8 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
"It's not possible to be sexist against men."
Really, this is the pinnacle of sexism.
[–]Yosuke_Hanamura 5 points6 points7 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
BUT IT'S NOT POSSIBLE!!! EVIL CIS WHITE MALE OPPRESSOR!!! YOUR RAPIST PENIS IS MICROSCOPIC!!! DIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
/s (in case it wasn't obvious)
[–]manhater 5 points6 points7 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Of all dictionary definitions of sexism (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sexism), none implicitly exclude female on male sexism, and even the most sexist definitions only state it is "usually male" on female.
[–]phukka 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The unfortunate thing is that those cunts had children and will get to raise said children into little parasitic hate-machines.
You know, if they don't up and kill the kid for being the wrong sex.
[–]rottingchrist 25 points26 points27 points 14 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link
This is what a feminist reads like.
[–]LadyOlduvai 36 points37 points38 points 14 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link
This is what ignorant radical feminism sounds like.
[–][deleted] 15 points16 points17 points 14 years ago* (11 children) | Copy Link
I see what you're trying to get at, but I'm going to have to disagree. Even moderate feminists believe that sexism equals power plus prejudice, therefore women can't really be sexist against men. The difference is that moderate feminists don't typically use that to justify being overtly sexist against men themselves. The term radical means taking something to an extreme, and if radical feminists advocate gender supremacy, then feminism isn't really about equality.
[–]PuppyPuppies 5 points6 points7 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Even moderate feminists believe that sexism equals power plus privilege
I'm sort of assuming you meant to say, "Sexism equals power plus prejudice"? If not, you can disregard what I'm about to say. I happen to be a feminist who does believe the quoted idea, but I believe people can be sexist against men as well. I believe male privilege exists in many parts of my culture, but there is such a thing as female privilege, as well; e.g. if a male elementary school teacher works in a school system where the vast majority of his coworkers are female, there might be (intentionally or not) systems in the school that benefit women more than men and he could very well be a target of sexism.
I'm sure I'll get heavily downvoted for having an unpopular opinion and that's fine, but I just wanted to explain my train of thought so you could understand how some feminists think. You do not have to think that sexism against men is impossible to label yourself a feminist.
Yes, that is what I meant to write. Edited.
Your opinion that both men and women tend to be privileged in different situations isn't too unpopular here. In fact, I think it might be more accepted here than in /r/feminisms. A lot of feminists deny the idea of female privilege.
You do not have to think that sexism against men is impossible to label yourself a feminist.
Of course. Tenets that are more central to feminism though are patriarchy theory and the supposition that men are more privileged in society than women.
[–]dakru 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Heh, I think the "power plus prejudice" thing is pretty stupid.
A boss being prejudiced against a group I'm in (whether I'm a man, woman, black, white, whatever) is just as wrong as a co-worker being prejudiced. The difference is that the boss's prejudice has more effect on people, but they're still both important.
But I'm much more willing to accept that you have an idea that I think is stupid when it's not just being used against men (I don't want it used against women either, but that doesn't really happen with that idea that I've seen).
[–]LadyOlduvai 10 points11 points12 points 14 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link
and if radical feminists advocate gender supremacy, then feminism isn't really about equality.
To me this is like saying that because there are some people who self-identify as MRA's who are blanket misogynists means that the Men's Rights Movement isn't about equality either.
Otherwise, I more or less agree with you. My understanding of feminism...the sort I actually have respect for...is academic and historic. It was all about identifying systemic inequalities and attempting to negate them. It was about legal equality, about universal suffrage, about the right to have the opportunity to explore one's abilities and become the best person that you could be. It was about forcing the world to realize that women were different, but equal. That they deserved their own voice, their own view points and that what was male/masculine should not be the automatic default view point for politics, sciences or the arts. To me, this will always be feminism.
That being said, I've also had many run ins with "feminists" who seem to have no idea that the point was to create equality, not to supplant the oppressors. (Yes I fully understand that the structure of patriarchy sucks for men too, but in many respects, HISTORICALLY speaking, women were far more limited in their rights/abilities than others.) The major battles of the feminism that I respect are in the past for Western Society, but many seem to have gained a taste of their power and become intoxicated.
These power-drunk people then proceeded to convince several generations that nothing has actually changed, and that until women have no challenges in society that they haven't "won" yet.
This is radical feminism to me. It is a perversion of the original intentions of the philosophy/ideology.
As for the "moderate feminists" who
believe that sexism equals power plus privilege
they have to be reminded that in many instances it is the women who have the power/privilege. If someone truly believes they are a moderate then they should be the most open to reasoned rational arguments.
These are our potential allies, and we should not dismiss them because they happen to use a word to identify themselves that irrational people have usurped.
EDIT* As requested. tl;dr: Feminism was originally about the search for a previously unheard women's perspective and changing society so that women had the same rights as men. This has been perverted into the punitive misandry of Rad-Fems. Moderate feminists should be open to reason and the understanding that in Western Society, feminism has accomplished much of what it set out to do, so that it is also women who can find themselves in a position of power/privilege and are thus capable of sexism.
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
A men's rights activist is simply that, one who advocates for men's rights. Whether or not one believes in equality should be determined by their stance on the issues. Some MRAs believe in equality, some don't.
A feminist is not simply one who advocates for women's rights, but also someone who subscribes to feminist theory, and that's one of the points where MRAs don't get along with feminists. Specifically, they don't like feminist theory being used to justify discrimination against men.
[–]LadyOlduvai 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Of course feminist theory should not be used to discriminate against men! The same way that the MRM should not use Men's Right's issues to discriminate against women.
But realizing that the theory originated as one of the first real attempts to push for women's rights explains why it is gender specific and looking to change the world around it.
The problem is that too many get caught up in the search for discrimination and subjugation that they perceive it everywhere and in everything and thus become fanatics. Moderate feminists should seek to realize the difference between real systemic discrimination and the natural struggle for power/stability that every human being is working for.
Just because people misuse a theory to justify their own selfish desires does not mean that the theory itself is inherently bad or wrong.
[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Most of feminist theory is wrong and arguably bad though like the feminist definition of patriarchy and how it is purportedly the cause of discrimination that both women and men face. At best it's a red herring, at worst it perpetuates the battle of the sexes by making women resent men.
[–]Polkadotpear 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
shove a tl;dr on this. great points made but it's late at night and i barely got through it
[–]t1w 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Wouldn't you rather be a humanist? If it's equality FTW? or speciesist?
[–]LadyOlduvai 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
This, IMHO, is exactly the where the evolution of feminist theory and gender studies would ideally take us.
Unfortunately it's currently been hijacked by power-hungry fanatics who enjoy the privileged position of the newly empowered "victim" and use it to to demand punishment from the former "oppressors."
For some odd reason, most modern approaches to feminism feel very much to me like the creation and enforcement of the Treaty of Versailles. The "evil oppressors" have been defeated, so there's nothing left to do but punish and blame the pawns that are left over because they happen to remind you of those oppressors.
In hindsight, we can clearly see this is because they defined "oppressor" not as someone who oppresses, but by immutable biological characteristics that have nothing to do with oppression (feminist opinions on penises notwithstanding). Feminism was always wrong-- we can just see it more clearly now, with things like a refusal to recognize rape and abuse gender symmetry. Any attempt to say that even when feminism first started, men were the "oppressors" or "the enemy" is history revision-- lots and lots of powerful women worked against women's rights (the right to vote, for example).
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
As a man who has tried to bring up male-related issues in a 30-person gender class in college, I would not say that it is only the extremes that think this way --many women downplay the male experience and blame men for their own shortcomings.
[–]LadyOlduvai 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Absolutely, but again, this is a perversion and is what needs to be corrected.
I've had similar experiences bringing up male issues in certain gender studies classes. Sometimes I was more successful than others. It depended entirely on the prof as many of the students shared multiple classes with me. It was frightening to see how their opinions changed based on the prof's lead.
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Sounds like black people can't be racist.
Maybe we just need a new word — women can be shitty. How about that?
[–]Mitschu 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
We don't need a new word, we need to reclaim the old word.
But if we go that route, calling -ic.
Since -ic is added to make an adjective of or pertaining to a noun (example: heroic - pertaining to the characteristics of a hero), we can call it "sexic" - pertaining to the characteristics of sex. And exhibitors of sexic behavior, naturally, would be sexicists who practice sexicism.
Or something.
[–]CharlieTango 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Comment made by "20 year old anti-authoritarian mother to a 9month old"
Sounds about right. Also, girls rule and boys drool
[–]thegreatmisanthrope 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
The stupidity of people like this is astounding, these are the same kind of people who in their twisted delusions think women are a minority.
Yes, they are that stupid.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It is not possible to be sexist against men.
Our legal system disagrees.
Thankfully.
[–]Felt_Ninja 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Just like it isn't possible to be racist toward anybody but black people. Right.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
"WOMAN" AND "MAN" DO NOT SHARE THE SAME ROOT WORD.
"WOMAN" IS NOT A DERIVATION OF "MAN."
IF YOU WRITE "WOMYN," YOU'RE RETARDED.
[–]Amunium 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I'm sure if one of them was a manager from Manchester, they'd write "mynager" and "Mynchester" as well.
[–]Alanna 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
That's not true...
Origin: before 900; Middle English womman, wimman, Old English wīfman, equivalent to wīf female + man human being; see wife, man1
and
[Old English wīfmann, wimman; from wife + man (human being)]
(Source)
Still retarded, but, yes, they do share the same root word.
Oh, I misinterpreted what the truth was, then. Woman and man share the same root, but the root itself is unisex and means only 'human.'
It meant both. There is an arguable point to be made that for centuries in English, the default was the word for male-- and the default pronouns the male pronouns. Language is a good measure for how we view the world, and so the argument is that we viewed male as a kind of "default" mode for humanity and women as "other." Considering that much codification of language was done by religious authorities, this makes a certain amount of sense.
However, I think it's much more relevant how we use words today, than whatever their origins might have been or how they might have been used four hundred years ago.
[–]9001 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I knew it was all over when she said, "womyn."
He's exactly right. Those bitches are fucked up.
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link
Could someone copy the post text for mobile users?
Text below for mobile users, square brackets mine:
mike: After searching the internet for a while I have finally found a suitable website for me and my wife to browse in the months coming up to the birth of our newborn baby boy. I just want to browse to ask for advice and maybe discuss some personal issues I also have with my wife. I am going to quit my job and be a stay at home dad while she works.
CanadianMamme: Your wife is welcome to register and ask questions, but this space is for womyn only. [sic]
mike: Hmm ok, that is rather sexist though. Just wanted some advice.
boigrrlwonder: Sexism is a system that privileges men over other genders. [circled]It is not possible to be sexist against men.[/circled] I'm sure there are other sites that would be better geared for you. Have you considered mothering.com? It's crunchy, but open to men. Rad Dad is a great zine[sic] for fathers. I'm sure you can find other sites that would better support you. Congrats on the baby and good luck.
mike: [quote]It is not possible to be sexist against men.[/quote] Oh I suppose excluding men isn't sexism. Right, well after have a browse of the social pages. I can safely say you bitches are fucked up.
Andromeda: Well, I guess I can see why men aren't allowed, lol!
SkyKid45: [doublequote] [quote]It is not possible to be sexist against men.[/quote] [circled]Oh I suppose excluding men isn't sexism.[/circled] Right, well after have a browse of the social pages. I can safely say you bitches are fucked up.[/doublequote] [circled]You're right, it isn't sexism![/circled] See, you're learning already. lol
Amy Rox: [doublequote] [quote]It is not possible to be sexist against men.[/quote] Oh I suppose excluding men isn't sexism. Right, well after have a browse of the social pages. I can safely say you bitches are fucked up.[/doublequote] your poor wife. how lucky she is to have a husband like you to seek out such an awesome "suitable" place for her to come and find support to eventually leave your rude, disrespectful, sexist ass. well, now that you've ruined that opportunity, you are no longer welcome here.
tzolkin: why would a married guy think that girl-mom is the "most suitable" website he found for advice? i know it's possible to be a married teen, but i don't think it's very likely that he is. i can see how someone older would be interested in the gm philosophy (pro-choice, liberal, whatever else you might be interested in learning) but obviously that's not the case after the sexism and other word choices. and why would you bother to register and post before noticing you don't agree with anything in the social justice forum? i know that is a pointless post, but some people just annoy me.
chicamocha: I banned him and I am locking this.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Yeah, that would be nice. I can't read it.
now that I'm on my puter I added it for mobile users. Enjoy!
Thanks.
[–]UristMcStephenfire 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Mike: After searching the internet for a while I have finally found a suitable website for me and my wife in the months coming up to my newborn baby boy. I just want to browse to ask for advice and maybe discuss some personal issues with my wife. I am going to quit my job and be a stay at home dad while she works.
CanadianMamma(site admin): Your wife is welcome to register and ask questions, but this is a space for womyn only.
Mike: Hmm ok, that is rather sexist though. Just wanted some advice.
boigrrrlwonder(Site Admin): Sexism is a system that privileges men over other genders. It is not possible to be sexist against men. I'm sure there are other sites that would be more geared towards you. Have you considered mothering.com? It's crunchy but it's open to men. Rad Dad is a great zine for fathers, I'm sure you can find other sites that would better support you. Congrats on the baby and good luck.
Mike: Oh I suppose excluding men isn't sexism. Right, well after having a browse of the social pages, I can safely say that you bitches are fucked up.
Andromeda: Well, I guess I can see why men aren't allowed, lol.
Skykid45: (quoting mike's previous post) You're right, it isn't sexism! See, you're learning already, lol.
Amy Rox: (Also quoting mike) Your poor wife, how lucky she is to have a husband like you to seek out an awesome "suitable" place for her to come and find support to eventually leave your rude, disrespectful, sexist ass. Well, now that you've ruined that opportunity, you are no longer welcome here.
Tzolkin: Why would a married guy think that girl-mom is the "most suitable" website he found for advice? I know it's possible to be a married teen, but I don't think it's very likely that he is. I can see how someone older would be interested in the gm philosophy (pro-choice, liberal, whatever else you might be interested in learning.) but obviously that's not the choice after the sexism and other word choices. And why would you bother to register and post before noticing that you don't agree with anything in the social justice sub-forum? I know this is a pointless post, but some people just annoy me.
Chicamocha (site admin) I banned him and I am locking this.
That's all folks :)
EDIT: darn, not paying enough attention/having refreshed page until after post, my bad. I'll leave it there anyway, just in case :P
[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yes, there are crazy people on the internet. Let's not get too riled up.
[–]Alanna 7 points8 points9 points 14 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
Just as a note, OP's account is six months old, but he just started posting to /mr today. His other post is a yahoo answers screenpic hosted on imgur, where it is highlighted "posted 11 hours ago." Imgur img itself was only posted 7 hours ago. So, whoever uploaded it (probably OP, possibly not) is trying to pass this off as a post in the last 24 hours. In reality, it was posted 2 months ago, and the top answer, also two months old (so not from this post), is this: "You think you shouldn't have done it? You just possibly sent a guy to jail because you were pissed..... The only way to get his charges dropped is if you admit it wasn't rape. Which it wasn't by the way.... However if you walk in to the station and tell them you lied/ want to drop all charges. They can press charges on you. Have fun!"
Edit: The answer in this screencap is also there, but it has 0 votes and no likes. The vast majority of responses were extremely negative to the girl and what she did.
This post is a five-year-old screen capture from a site that, from what I can tell, is the teen pregnancy version of the "pro-ana" movement. They're all a little crazy, it's not surprising they're super-feminists too. As someone else said, it'd be like going to Stormfront and getting a screen capture and saying "OMG HOW RACIST!"-- except that Stormfront is at least an known, active, major white supremacist community. These people are nobodies. If they're exemplary of others (which I agree they are), let's post to them.
My point is that I totally smell a troll. It doesn't help that OP at least browses Game of Trolls.
[–]Phrodo_00 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Well, given the definition of "system that priviledges men over other genders" is kind of true. The problem is that's a completely useless and stupid definition of the word. It's kind of saying "Racism is a system that priviledges white people over other races", then you have no word for japanese people discriminating koreans or stuff like that.
[–]Deacon 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I can safely say that you bitches are fucked up.
Best reply ever. Followed by the inevitable--
I banned him and I am locking this.
[+][deleted] 14 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]Alanna 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I conditionally agree. What is this site? How big are they? They're using the default phpBB installation and skin, right down to still having the phpBB logo instead of their own. Shitty little communities are a dime a dozen. We all know there are bigots out there. These gals are no worse than many feminists on reddit.
[–]topoi 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
There is a good way to understand "sexism" such that it must be systematic and pervasive. This is one way to separate -ism from mere jerkishness (which many people want to do). It is eminently reasonable given the evidence that most people have to believe that sexism against men does not exist.
Moreover, when a group forms around a topic that people in different social groups will approach differently, there's nothing wrong with wanting to close it off to some groups. That is to say, there is nothing wrong with women wanting to discuss motherhood with only other women. That said, they handled the situation very poorly.
[–]CaptainRandus 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
wow, that's sadly ignorant haha
[–]NewAlt 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You missed a good opportunity to educate and instead resorted to name calling. Pretty poor showing as you came off as bad as they did.
[–]CrazyPersonApologist 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yes but his overreaction was a real facepalm moment.
[–]NativeKing 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Some days man. Some days
[–]AgentmraOrangemrm 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Hmm..I wonder how many radfems hang out here to indoctrinate these girls. Let's find out....shall we?
[–]WhipIash 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You couldn't link us directly?
[–]Felt_Ninja 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
There are a lot of shitty forums out there. You probably try and inhabit the sensible/intelligent parts of the internet. The forum in question would be where morons breed.
[–]MRMRising -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Looks like the single mom brigade has there own forum, how proud there parents must be of them.
[–]kyle2143 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yeah, those people were idiots, but so was that guy "mike". How he could go there and not expect to run into that sort of behavior is beyond me.
[–]absolutezero1287 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
What man would ever be with any of these women? That picture made my blood boil...I need to take a walk or something. I'm glad that most women aren't this screwed up.
[–]picopallasi 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Ah Mike, you could've done much better.
[+][deleted] -6 points-5 points-4 points 14 years ago (33 children) | Copy Link
Really? A five-year-old forum post? A phpBB2 forum where they couldn't even change the default colors and logo?
[–]Lothrazar 8 points9 points10 points 14 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
It wasnt sexist if it happened five years ago.
It wasnt sexist if they suck at website design and colour coordination.
Nice logic jackass.
[–]Alanna 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
She didn't say it wasn't sexist. She said it wasn't relevant.
[+][deleted] -11 points-10 points-9 points 14 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
Nice strawman, jackass.
[–]Jazzeki 5 points6 points7 points 14 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
do you even know what a strawman is? because i'd really love to see you explain in what way that is a strawman.
It was a straw man. She made an argument, he refuted a completely different argument. That's a textbook straw man.
[–]Pilotted -5 points-4 points-3 points 14 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
ad hominem?
[–]SageInTheSuburbs 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Ad hominem is often misused on the interwebz. Calling someone a jackass isn't ad hominem, it's just an opinion. Saying something like, "Your position is invalid because you are a jackass." would be an example of an ad hominem.
[–]Pilotted 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Ahhh...this makes sense.
So it'd be something like "You're wrong because you drive a Ford/Chevy/ect or smoke cigarettes."
[–]SageInTheSuburbs 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
That's exactly it ;]
[–]Jazzeki 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
a straw man is putting up a statement as if it was what you oponet belives and attacking that. he attacked your statment. an ad homein is ignoreing what your oponet actually said and attacking his charecter. he didn't he argued against your statment. stop throwing fallacies arounf please. and stop trolling.
[–]Pilotted 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Wasn't trolling, just not thinking apparently.
My bad, just seemed that way a bit.
[–]Alanna 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It's worse than that, if I found the same site in its modern incarnation, they are a real load of wackos... Believing it's not possible to be sexist against men is probably one of their more "mainstream" doctrines.
[–]Scott2508 7 points8 points9 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
why not, when mysoginy and the patriarchy are considered historical and the blame put on men is for the sins of men in the past is an example of male hating from 5 years ago considered unacceptable?
What does that have to do with anything?
[+][deleted] -14 points-13 points-12 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
What?
[–]kragmoor 8 points9 points10 points 14 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link
women should be allowed to do this because they were disadvantaged in historyhistoryhistory
[+][deleted] -16 points-15 points-14 points 14 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link
So confused as to why they seem to think you were saying anything about historical discrimination....
[–]kragmoor 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link
they use the disadvantage of women throughout the stupid ages to justify radicalism
[+][deleted] -12 points-11 points-10 points 14 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link
How is that relevant to a forum and men's rights?
[–]kragmoor 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link
you pointed out that the forum is 5 years old and therefore irrelevant so why not?
It is irrelevant. It would be like pulling a 5 year old quote out of /r/mr and using it to make some point about what MRAs think. Plus who gives a shit what some random yahoo who started a phpBB forum thinks about anything?
[+][deleted] -17 points-16 points-15 points 14 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
It's not irrelevant because it's five years old, you stupid cunt, it's irrelevant and also irrelevantly old. This has no bearing to anybody. It's not worth the time spent looking at.
[–]LaFace420 9 points10 points11 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Holy shit you're right. From now on every 5 years I'm going to erase everything I have learned because it is no longer relevant to anybody and start all over.
[+][deleted] -16 points-15 points-14 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Thank you, finally someone with some sense.
[–]kragmoor 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
woah man whats with the name calling?
[–]IFUCKINGLOVEANTS 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
you stupid cunt
What the fuck is wrong with you? ._.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
It's relevant because this is what feminists believe, and people are always asking why MRAs can't work with feminists.
[–]Alanna 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
But there's no evidence that these people, whoever they are, are important or relevant feminists. Hell, there's no evidence they actually are feminists. All I see is circular reasoning here-- they must be feminists because they define sexism in a sexist way and use the word "womyn"-- and thus they're a great example of feminism.
There are far far better, more relevant, more current examples out there.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Yeah, there are better examples out there, but this is still one and it is relevant to this sub.
This would be more relevant if it weren't nearly 5 years old.
[–]SpanishGuy 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
http://girl-mom.com/
It's a forum and some general pages. The author got an article published at The Guardian (link here)
By that article and the post called "Why WE LOVE being single and/or young mamas" it looks like they felt marginalized at some point. Hence (I guess) that kind of unfriendly/contemptuous behavior.
[–]SirSandGoblin -5 points-4 points-3 points 14 years ago (22 children) | Copy Link
Boy you really gotta search hard for anti men stuff dontcha
[–]Alanna 5 points6 points7 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
No, sadly, we don't, which is why seeing this stuff on here is really frustrating.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
feminists reject the notion that women can be sexist towards men
http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2007/10/19/sexism-definition/
This blog is one of the most commonly cited by feminists when people start asking about feminism.
[+][deleted] 14 years ago* (7 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
So why is there even a distinction at all? So feminists have an excuse to bring up their assertions of male power and privilege whenever they are accused of bigotry? Why are they coming up with their own definitions of words?
They know that the accusation of being a sexist is powerful, so they don't want to be on the receiving end of it. They created their own form of derailment to distract people from the hate mongering that feminists support.
So people can make money off of it. How many magazines, TV shows, and all that crap are floating around out there? It's paid off, to perpetuate the horse shit that's flown for years. It's the same with a lot of things. The masses rile themselves up with a simple mention of all this, hype is created, and someone gets to sell more "Men R dum lol" keychains on the boardwalk. Cosmo's making a killing fucking with women's heads. As far as they're concerned, a woman should be as empowered as she can, so long as she maintains her low self esteem to believe she's doing everything wrong in her life.
Don't get me wrong; I do blame people for being willfully stupid. There's no questions about that. I find special quarrel, however, with the machine that oils its own gears with the tears of those who gets screwed in the end; be it the end-victim, or the programmed drone.
TL;DR: People are told to be ignorant, and do. No questions asked.
[+][deleted] 14 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link
The government is the most notable entity that can enforce institutional discrimination. The feminist premise that men can't be victims of sexism is wrong even by their very own definition. Women have most of the voting power, even if most elected representatives happen to be men, and there are many laws that discriminate against men.
[+][deleted] 14 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link
It is reasonable for them to believe that there is no sexism against men.
ಠ_ಠ
Affirmative Action with policies is one thing.
Affirmative Action with language of discourse that our realities are socially predicated upon? It's EVIL.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
Nope, just have to open your eyes. You may want to give that a try.
[–]SirSandGoblin -3 points-2 points-1 points 14 years ago* (10 children) | Copy Link
Yeh cos this forum really is the front o the Internet! Edit: soz, I shouldn't just come here being all sarcastic and that, it doesn't help any discussion. It's just that, from an objective point of view, you lot come across as totally desperate to find anything that is anti man, much like the extreme feminists who are desperate to find anything anti woman, and those things do nothing to help discussions either. I know I can't change your views but step back a minute and realise that the middle ground is closer to reality, there is prejudice both ways but men suffer it way way less, and women's attempts to regain equality may sometimes step too far but instances of that happening don't suddenly make men something like the captive humans on planet of the apes. Anyway I've been here too long and sorry for bothering you all and I hope you have a nice rest of the day, sorry again and bye!
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
There is no desperation at all in finding it only in people recognizing it.
Men are the disposable gender where the USA just to enact the draft and slavery is then legal in our country. It is throughout our culture and only does the feminist perspective get the academia and media attention while men's issues are left in the dust.
I am all about equality and frequent all boards, regardless of gender focus. I speak up against posts on this sub when the argument is unreasonable and do the same on other subs. I support feminism when it does not exclude men's rights. However, our culture does not see this exclusion which leads to me having to speak up more about men. It's a a balancing act -- you should try it =D
After all, I have :) I have protested for civil rights, women rights and other issues. I have also written many works both in undergraduate and graduate school regarding such issues, have you?
So, you grouping me into being some sort of bigot speaks way more about you!
TL;DR don't preach to me about middle ground and throw me into a group when you know nothing about me.
[–]SirSandGoblin 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
I thought id made it clear that I was not lumping anyone with anything but i guess if nothing else, you've proved that confirmation bias has gotten the better of all of you. Anyway, I hope you guys eventually manage to achieve, one day, eventually, men's equal rights. Otherwise known as rights. I'm not even going to justify this with any kind of claims of experience on the matter, which I easily could but it's basically irrelevant from the position you experts are coming from. Farewell forever! I guess my running away proves all of your points right, so use that if you like xx
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
I'm confused we have here a thread about an authority figure stating in a public forum with young women that:
It's not possible to be sexist against men
In which you reply with:
Which is very demeaning given the context of the post and the sub you're in and now you say:
I thought id made it clear that I was not lumping anyone with anything
?????? WTF ????? You attacked this subreddit -- an indication you are lumping people -- and somehow expect a different outcome and then post what you did above as if you have the morale high ground?
http://i.imgur.com/3E2tO.jpg
[–]SirSandGoblin 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
dude if you think i have thought that i have the moral high ground, like, not just now just here but, ever, then you are sorely misadvised. as for everything else, well, there really is, genuinely, no help for you guys and i hope that one day it is the 30s again so that you can believe that things are equal again. i really do. i hate to see sad people.
edit: p.s. i am now taking the piss out of everything you do so there is no point arguing with me cos i aint taking you seriously. but as i think i made clear earlier, feel free to use me as an example of how you're right.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
wut?....,.....,....,......wut...,....,?
You write poorly and then what can be made out are statements like this:
no help for you guys and i hope that one day it is the 30s again so that you can believe that things are equal again.
You clearly have a poor perception of what this sub is for and I'm not sure where you stand or even where you are going.
But I hope you have great life :)
[–]SirSandGoblin 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
if the idea that i have a poor perception on ANYTHING or the idea that i don't know where i stand on something similar, or that i am bad at writing, if any of those things are meant to make me feel bad then really good luck with that! and i guess if i was to make an ironic sort of take on your comment i might also add that you clearly have a poor perception of me etc etc etc anyway good luck hating women maybe one day one will fuck you lololol etc omfg
edit: sorry, for full effect i shouldda said "womyn"
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
I just babble, on, and babble, and like comma, as well, as comas, as I, like , to , drink, and go , to other subs, and take, pot shots, at them, and when,. countered with, logical, discourse, I talk, even more, with out, any merit, or attempt, at actually, supporting, my original, comment, but, just keep, showing my , bigotry, towards men, having a forum, to discuss, sexism, that they may, face, but, yet, I, still support, equal rights, but do not, acnkowledge, there may, be perceptions, other than my, own, that these equal, rights are Okay, and that, people on, this sub, are all, about, returning, to the 1930, where, there was, sexism, that kept, gender roles, of women, mainly at home, creating a, divide,, where, women, did not have, equal, access to, roles, outside, of the, home, even though, the greatest, amount of access, to technology, was at home, I wish, to sit here, being opiniated, about society, and am, just failing short, of calling this sub, a bunch of, women hating, assholes, and I'll just, drink another beer, and make, other people, try to understand, what, I'm, trying to say, and when they, point out any, flaws, I'll just type more, worthless, garble, garble, rabble, rabble -- because that's how I roll.
Is that what you are trying to say, LOL.
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
you think /b/ would have fun here?
[+]ThomasRoll -19 points-18 points-17 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
It isn't. Please check your privilege, men.
[–]Deacon 6 points7 points8 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Welcome, troll.
[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points-1 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I think we should all just troll the ever living shit out of that site.
© TheRedArchive 2026. All rights reserved.created by /u/dream-hunter
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