"My favourite thing about a woman, is she is not a man"

duskst0ne · 2022-11-18T09:30:04+00:00

“Now the soft-voiced gentle woman of my reverent worship has all but vanished,” Tesla told a reporter in 1924. “In her place has come the woman who thinks that her chief success in life lies in making herself as much as possible like man—in dress, voice and actions, in sports and achievements of every kind.”

Also this entire Twitter thread full of newspaper articles of people saying "men these days are too feminine and women too masculine since literally 1886.

I kind of think this "women these days aren't feminine anymore" is like "kids these days don't respect their parents anymore" - it's fake nostalgia for an ideal that never even existed in the first place. Women have never been "naturally feminine" because most of "femininity" is not how women naturally are, it's how men want us to be.

Not saying that there aren't some slight natural differences in temperament, but if you have an ideal of femininity in your head and you're meeting next to zero actual women that fit it, maybe consider if the problem is your expectations and not modern society.

EulenWatcher · 2022-11-18T00:14:58+00:00

I think there is descriptive and prescriptive femininity. The first described women as they are, the second describes them as society wants them to be. The first hasn’t really changed - women are still women. The second is changing due to changed reality we’re living in and women getting the ability to actually choose for themselves.

You long for traditional femininity, something that was predominant and forced on women for a really long time. The push against it is a reactive measure. Women who are into it still can choose it though. It isn’t really beneficial under current circumstances though. Being passive and meek, seeking a provider instead of educating yourself and making your own money, letting people talk over you and being more gentle than strong, high agreeableness, all of it gives worse outcomes than being the opposite of it. If you’re weak, you’ll get eaten.

Femininity is also a spectrum. It seems you’re talking about two extremes that are both pretty rare, but most women fall somewhere in between. I think it’s good when a person is well rounded and has both feminine and masculine traits. It’s practical.

Personally I’ve never been into traditional femininity, it’s just not a thing in my family full of women who had to take care of themselves and everyone around them. I have a mix of traits and I had to work on not being overly agreeable and soft with people. I guess it made me less feminine, but raising a backbone was necessary and it’s something my husband encouraged and still encourages me to do. He does think I’m feminine though, but I highly suspect it’s mostly about appearance and some personal traits for him rather than about complying to traditional femininity.

SeveralSadEvenings · 2022-11-18T01:01:11+00:00

I think some (or most) women that reject femininity are doing so out of self preservation, or a rejection of traits that would make them ideal prey for predators.

Men talk big about protecting feminine softness, but the truth on the ground is that they're more likely to mishandle, neglect, harm, or defile it.

learn2earn89 · 2022-11-18T00:18:29+00:00

It’s not that I reject femininity, it’s just that I’m not very feminine (at least from my perspective) It’s the same with men—some guys are more feminine, others are more masculine. I’m not rejecting femininity or masculinity, I just am who I am.

CimZim · 2022-11-17T23:57:21+00:00

This is so freaking weird when you think about it.

Men (some, not all) will say things like "I could never have female friends", "women are emotional", "women are weak", "women are terrible in bed", "women aren't logical", "women are the oldest teenager in the home", "women never know what they want", "women are all hypergamous", etc. Not for nothing, but all these statements make it pretty darn clear that men don't find women or femininity valuable or desirable, but rather something to be viewed as lesser and degraded.

So feminine women decide to stop being what men dislike, and try to be masculine since that's apparently what men do think is valuable and worthy. Most of them don't want to act masculine, there's tons of "boss babes" who admit they look forward to going home where they don't have to be "one of the men". But they do it to be taken seriously since femininity = bad and weak and irrational.

But then men start talking poorly about these women anyway. "Where have all the feminine women gone?" Why are women no longer soft and nurturing and empathetic? Why aren't they supportive of men? Why do they act stoic and unfeeling and care so much about their careers? Because those men told them feminine traits are garbage + masculine traits are inherently superior, and they listened.

And the masculine women like me are just sitting on the sidelines seeing how sad it all is.

BusinessGarage2606 · 2022-11-18T08:00:11+00:00

I never rejected traditional femininity. I'm just not like that. Being traditionally feminine has never been natural to me. I'm not meek and submissive,I never dreamed about being a sahm.

I'm an ambitious extrovert. I'm loud and I'm success oriented. But I'm also nurturing and kind, but not a people pleaser. This is what's natural to me. I never rejected anything.

Femininity can mean different thing for different women today, because today women aren't forced to fit one apecific type of it.

_demidevil_ · 2022-11-18T14:09:18+00:00

Femininity is very restrictive for many women. It forces us to limit ourselves. Most women who are in their 30’s now had a lot of pressure on us as kids to be “feminine”, which we associate with not being able to freely express ourselves and having to hold us back. We associate it with never wanting to make a fuss or cause a scene and as a result having to go along with things we don’t want to do

I don’t think it matters that you or any other guy finds boss bitch attitude off putting. Strong women don’t want guys that find independence off-putting. That attitude is often seen of a sign of weakness in men. They need the woman to be meek and submissive.

Regarding the dating scene - I don’t know if it helps anyone else to think of it this way, but I feel like the person I’ll end up with is out there somewhere, living their life. Eventually we will meet. For now they’re just somewhere else doing their own thing. No rush.

Academic_Snow_7680 · 2022-11-18T09:51:00+00:00

As long as femininity is seen as weakness you'll have that rejection.

fakingandnotmakingit · 2022-11-18T02:37:45+00:00

What is femininity to you?

Often in places like this you get nurturing, agreeable, vulnerable.

And historically where has this gotten women? Pretty much nowhere.

Now I also think this "boss bitch" shit is just an extreme opposite reaction.

Personally think that we should all be allowed to be our authentic selves, regardless of whether that's "feminine" or not.

Most people will fall somewhere on the spectrum.

I just find it very intresting that after generations of "women are weak" and "women should submit" and "women should stay at home and not aspire to greater achievements" people are now going "why don't women want to be more traditionally feminine?!"

howdoiw0rkthisthing · 2022-11-18T05:14:51+00:00

as if it’s something bad or undesirable

Tell me why it’s good and desirable.

Salt_Mathematician24 · 2022-11-17T23:37:03+00:00

The reason women rejected femininity "like it was a bad thing" is because men treat it as such. Women's work was never paid, or paid less (mothers, caretakers, housewives etc), they were denied the right to vote, the whole "get back in the kitchen" or "you do insert arbitrary thing like a girl".

Women noticed how femininity was seen as being lesser, having less power and being a second class citizen, defined only through the eyes of men and began to reject it. Like, what do you expect?

I don't understand why some men are so shocked at this. It's pretty straight forward as to why.

CruelAngelGradThesis · 2022-11-18T05:06:52+00:00

I can relate to this as a woman with supposedly masculine preferences/ideals for relationships.

Irl I outwardly present as hyperfeminine. I love dresses, skirts, jewelry, stuffed animals, sweet/fruity perfumes, etc. etc. Interact with me long enough and you'll get more of the stereotypically masculine side (blunt, assertive, calculating, ambitious, etc.) A lot of the things men say about their preferences in a partner make perfect sense to me as long as you flip the roles. I'm not interested in a man's career so much as his family background and education. No need for two captains, give me a guy who's soft and kind and nurturing. Great with kids. Can help me to see the human/emotional side of things instead of the strictly rational or efficient. I feel as if people are meant to complement each other in that way, but the sex of who plays each role doesn't really matter. It's more about what the individual is suited for. It's not in every woman's nature to follow, and it's not in every man's nature to lead.

MistyMaisel · 2022-11-18T17:09:15+00:00

So, here's my (maybe odd) take. I think, in response to changing times and women changing, there has been an almost forceful attempt by...men (maybe) who learn more apolitical or conservativish to forget or strictly define what is feminine to this very very limited angel of the house, where have all the angels gone, thing.

The idea of strong, merciless, capable, independent women is not some new invention. Look at the Goddesses from almost any Pantheon you choose. Each reflects an aspect of the feminine that exists within women. But go with the Greek as a great example of this: You have Hera (the mother leader), Athena (The Wise Warrior), Artemis (the Hunter), Aphrodite (The Beautiful Sexy Babe), Demeter (Literally Nature Itself), Persephone (Death and Harvest Personified), and Hestia (the Hearth). This is one of the older conceptions of female aspects and at least 2 of them would easily be portrayed as Boss Babes today. I could easily explore what each of these is and tells us about women, but I'll leave that out for now unless there's interest from people.

I think men are currently trying to railroad women into being only Aphrodite, Hera, and Hestia. But we've never been just that in any other society. And I think it's arguably because we've threatened some of the male aspects of course, so they're trying to take away ours.

If you can only see the feminine as weakness, sexiness, beauty, grace, or child-bearing you haven't seen all the aspects of the feminine. If you cannot appreciate that women too are given to a type of war-like nature, you don't understand the feminine like you think you do. And you don't appreciate it. If you don't understand the bounty, fruit, and ability of women to coexist with darkness, death, and despair while still being vibrant and joyful, you ain't there yet. If you cannot see them as a force of chaotic nature which yields the reality you live in...I'm still thinking you don't quite appreciate womanhood. You appreciate a very limited version of it.

But listen to any truly happily married man talk about their wives. Do they seem to just appreciate she's hot and had their children and ran their home? Go listen to Jocko Willink talk about his wife. Does the woman he's describing sound that limited to you? Does she sound like anything short of a force of nature which could stand in step with the strongest of men? If you don't want your woman to be that, I would question is it because you really don't like that...or is it because you've limited yourself to not having many aspects. And I think currently men are limiting themselves to essentially being...Hephaestus, Dionysius, and Zeus).

Put bluntly, I am a woman. I'm just many aspects of a woman. If you can't see that. It's your hang up. I found a man who can see and appreciate the complexities and many beauties I contain and vice versa. I left the men who couldn't or didn't want to grow more. I don't think it made them evil people and it won't make you an evil one if you just want the one thing. I just think it's hard to find people who are that limited.

januaryphilosopher · 2022-11-17T23:50:59+00:00

Femininity is still pushed to a huge extent. I don't see women pushing for masculinity, but an element of choice and control over how feminine they are. A lot of what's considered feminine is designed to put women down, and when it goes too deep to be optional, it's harmful. I realise that benefits men and they enjoy those benefits. But more women now are realising it's not benefitting them. A lot of what's considered masculine is just the human default, or behaviours that are beneficial to those that perform them, but I guess when women act for themselves and not others that's "acting like men". If someone draws a stick figure without decoration, we see it as male. Just existing, just being a woman, often isn't seen as good enough, as feminine enough, to be female.

jjlew922 · 2022-11-18T00:12:03+00:00

Rejection of femininity by what standards? Who defines what that means? If you’re talking manosphere gibberish, no adult human being should “submit” to another as an authority figure against their own body and wishes. Just as the “boss bitch babe I don’t need no man” is a byproduct of the same cultural brainwashing but inverted.

We all have masculine and feminine energy. We should honor the times we need to be masculine to act and honor the feminine to feel. Separating the two by gender and societal expectations is why we’re debating this sort of thing, imho.

In the end, do you. Do what you think and feel is right and you’ll never go wrong. You seem to have a good head on your shoulders. It’s ok not to like the boss bitch mentality, someone else might. Just recognize when you see a pattern of attracting in your life what you don’t want, it’s time to explore deeper.

Minachoupinette · 2022-11-18T08:47:17+00:00

I think I'm feminine and most women are but it's the kind of femininty men do not like. I'm sensual and sensisitive.I'm good at interpersonal relationships and being likeable. I'm nuturing towards children. I'm inclined to make everything (myself, ly house, my insta feed, my ppts at work) aesthically pleasing.I was to'd im quite graceful. I use those traits for my own benefit ( seduce,have fun, to further my career, to get along with people) not to please men and I think that'sthe big change. I am not into being submissive, a housewife, self sacrificing or chaste. Those "feminine" traits were deemed feminine as a way to control women. This performative and probably what women are rejecting when they say they're not feminine. This isn't true feminity tho.

Saying I don't need a man is not arejection of feminity.It's a fact I don'tneed one. I don't mind having one tho, sex and compinionship are nice things to have.

localmicrodosechamp · 2022-11-17T23:18:23+00:00

> It seems like a lot of western women are pushing for a rejection of femininity (as if it's something bad or undesirable) and adoption of masculinity.

this is just a red pill/incel talking point.

literally no one is doing this.

coquette fashion is in, giant prairie dresses are in, balloon sleeves are in.

> 'boss bitch babe I don't need no man' is highly off-putting

men have been saying that marriage is a "ball and chain" and "fearing" commitment for decades?

of course its off-putting to not be wanted or needed.

but men have been doing this for decades and now women are like "well should i be with men, who categorically do not respect me and are loud about how they don't like/appreciate women? or should i decenter men and make my life about the people/things that make me feel respected and good?"

like, i am celibate and one of the reasons is BECAUSE i am feminine.

Men do not like sensitive people, even sensitive women though that is a big part of being "feminine" and empathetic. I get yelled at by men. I get told I am a crybaby. I get told my values (kindness, empathy, being gentle with people) are not realistic. I can live in a happy bubble without men just fine so why put up with the constant negging?

bunnakay · 2022-11-17T23:49:36+00:00

I think it's great, because historically femininity has been presented as inferior. Why would any woman choose to be inferior?

gymbro718nyc2 · 2022-11-18T01:40:50+00:00

So you just cut your own balls to spite your dick?

chalkandapples · 2022-11-17T23:19:10+00:00

This depends on the individual. I have friends that just love maleness, and the favorite thing about men is that they're male.

Me on the other hand, don't care that much for maleness itself. I look for a good person that I like to be around first, and their sexual appeal adds to that. It depends on the wants and personality of the individual. I think most people land somewhere between the extremes on the gradient.

nemma88 · 2022-11-18T00:00:06+00:00

(as if it's something bad or undesirable)

You haven't specified really what feminine traits / behaviours you are thinking of, but go ahead and think about them. Detach them from what you find attractive and ask yourself if that would be an good and desirable existence for you to follow.

_Remember_me_not_ · 2022-11-18T08:58:20+00:00

There's always extremes on both sides of the field, you just need to find the one that suits you.

West-Ad-9697 · 2022-11-18T13:28:54+00:00

My question is, do you also see a rejection of femininity in western society?

No, it's just a performative form of overcompensation due to insecurity created by past heartbreak.

What do you think are the driving forces behind it?

I think it's essentially a reaction to weak men, disappointing, film-flammy men. Arseholes disappoint women. But weak men break women's trust in maleness, in the concept of a man, in the hope that a man can offer her the stability of a home and the space where she can love and nurture love with kids. It's like saying - you must be this tall to ride. You must be this masculine and centered to fuck me or get me to lean back in my feminine.

Do you think it's good or bad?

I don't know yet. I think it made sociopaths the only men on the market. If you raise the "you must be this tall to ride" high enough, you'll only get outliers. Is it bad? Was it always this bad, we just didn't call them sociopaths, but rather chads and casanovas, we'll see. Ironically I saw women in relationship with literal sadists happier than with the average Adam. So if it works, who am I to tell them no.

gate18 · 2022-11-18T18:07:08+00:00

"My favourite thing about a woman, is she is not a man"

I agree.

What does femininity have anything to do with it?

They can't reject femininity. A 'boss bitch babe I don't need no man' doesn't remove their femininity.

I don't think you know what femininity is. I think this post is just another way of saying you want a traditional woman.

Meryl Streep in The Devil Wears Prada is a 'boss bitch babe I don't need no man', yet feminine

Ppdebatesomental · 2022-11-18T04:16:43+00:00

So is it masculine to act like a bad ass bro who don’t need no bitches? Lol. I promise you it’s not. Same coin, other side.

We live in a capitalist society. I don’t know what you consider “feminine “ but I suspect it usually involves leaving money on the table.

BlackPorcelainDoll · 2022-11-18T00:03:48+00:00

There are 4 types of femininity that I care about:

Expectant femininity (efficiency, path of least resistance, high social intelligence/high manipulation, minimal social conflict).
Reactive femininity (involuntarily behaviors that occur in the presence of a masculine man) — only triggered by one type of male and only during romantic/sexual interest. Just being "male" will not bring this out nor compel these reactions.
Natural femininity intrinsic to femaleness (dual hemisphere brain usage, estrogen side effects, breasts, genitals, etc).
Dark Femininity — Conscious selection of how I choose to behave by preference - in other words utilizing gender-neutral personality traits more common in men as a female (non-traditionalist, non-conformist without being "masculine"). E.g. "assertive, bold, thinker, etc..."

Most women today are 3, 4. And 2 respectively with an individual man. If you aren't getting 2, it's because you just don't have the power honey. It's a simple as that.

NewWayNow · 2022-11-18T01:00:28+00:00

I’m with you. What I like most is their femininity. And also their vaginas.

Silver_Switch_3109 · 2022-11-18T09:16:18+00:00

If I wanted to date a man, I would be gay.

MissAlchamyst · 2022-11-18T06:41:34+00:00

YES!!! We are BORN AS WOMEN.

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_demidevil_ · 2022-11-18T14:15:05+00:00

This poem is a good way of showing how pressure to be feminine leads to eating disorders. Men never question how much space they deserve to take up.

https://youtu.be/zQucWXWXp3k

uglysaladisugly · 2022-11-18T18:06:35+00:00

Mainly because I have things going on with my life and career that I want to focus on, the dating scene feels like a minefield, and I enjoy my alone time, maybe a little too much.

And this is healthy and should be standard. If you NEED a gf or bf in your life to be happy, it would mean you need a better life.

With that said I'm quite 'picky' in the sense that I see almost all women in my age range as friends / acquaintances rather than potential love interests.

You perceive women as fellow humans, it's a refreshing thing to read on this sub. Again, very healthy.

My question is, do you also see a rejection of femininity in western society?

It's a very interesting question and as a somewhat radical feminist, my views on the matter is not very common (particular not among feminists). There is indeed a big rejection of feminity in western culture but it is very partial. Women tend to reject commonly "feminine" traits such as gentleness, softness, care, quietness, modesty, being discrete, etc. On the other hand, particularly in media, some "feminine" features are exaggerated to an almost clownish level. You see bodies with hip/waist ratio of 0.2, impossibly long and silky extension, fake eyelashes weighing 1kg each, huge boobs, huge ass, lips so plumpy it start to look like a vulva and general outfits, nails and make up rendering any actual intention to live a normal life impossible.

Do you think it's good or bad? What do you think are the driving forces behind it?

I think it's bad... my opinion is that we reject the feminine qualities I cited before because they are not what is valued in our cultural background. Our societies are build on competition, being strong, rational, hard working, innovative, we admire winners, war heroes, big CEOs of huge companies, etc. Being quiete, soft, gentle, taking care of others, listening to emotions, sharing, etc. Are seen as weaknesses... unless it's women. In order to free ourselves from the role assigned to women, in order to access the other spheres of the world, women had and have to reject those qualities.

Now, I think it's bad because those qualities are NOT weaknesses and are not problematic unless only half of the population is expected to express them.

Those "feminine" qualities are essential to society. They should be the ones we value the most. But they can be ingrate. I mean, it is a quality to be able to put yourself aside, take care of others, be careful not to step on them. But it is more socially rewarding to be a "bad boss bitch". Let's not lie... having a brilliant career, is seen as a better life achievement than being the nicest person ever. Even if everyone would rather surround themselves with the latter than the former, we still admire the first ones.

So yes, it is sad that women abandon some feminine qualities. But the real sad part about that is why. The sad part is that we are not able, as a society, to value things that truly matter. We expect them to happen in secret, we expect to enjoy the consequences of those qualities but we refuse to give them value.

We should not be sad that women are abandoning "feminity", we should be sad that "feminity" is dying because we build a world were having "feminine" qualities means you'll get crushed and take advantage of.

ObviouslyAnAltAct · 2022-11-18T20:22:36+00:00

Pro tip: you won't find your match "randomly." That only happens to women and extremely handsome men. Otherwise that's just in the movies. It takes a dedicated effort, playing the numbers, and not letting constant rejections get you down. I mean, it's statistically possible, but just know it's a very long shot. Just be prepared that it's unlikely to randomly happen.

Title	"My favourite thing about a woman, is she is not a man"
Author	Ris-O
Upvotes	16
Comments	181
Date	November 17, 2022 11:14 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/yy4oho/my_favourite_thing_about_a_woman_is_she_is_not_a/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/my-favourite-thing-about-a-woman-is-she-is-not-a.1140391 https://theredarchive.com/post/1140391

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