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Ten Things to Avoid When Hitting on Me (please read my mind and do exactly what I want at the moment I want it and express your sexuality in exactly the right way at all times and maybe you'll get to fuck me - but probably not)

literallyschmiteraly

June 17, 2013

194 upvotes

/r/MensRights

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/melanie-curtin/ten-things-to-avoid-when-_b_3447210.html

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Post Information

Title	Ten Things to Avoid When Hitting on Me (please read my mind and do exactly what I want at the moment I want it and express your sexuality in exactly the right way at all times and maybe you'll get to fuck me - but probably not)
Author	literallyschmiteraly
Upvotes	194
Comments	216
Date	June 17, 2013 12:41 PM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1gig15/ten_things_to_avoid_when_hitting_on_me_please/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/ten-things-to-avoid-when-hitting-on-me-please-read.1170975 https://theredarchive.com/post/1170975

Comments

[–]seego79 84 points85 points86 points 13 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

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[–]empathica1 50 points51 points52 points 13 years ago (30 children) | Copy Link

[–]robby7345 34 points35 points36 points 13 years ago (28 children) | Copy Link

[–]theskepticalidealist 11 points12 points13 points 13 years ago* (16 children) | Copy Link

[–]robby7345 3 points4 points5 points 13 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

I'd like to think most of the people that we are calling nice guys are just passive aggressive shy guys. Which isn't as catchy. Most people that fall under the category are like that don't do that to get girls. I don’t like the idea that someone would change everything they are to get laid , it doesn’t work, then they still continue to do it.

I think it's more like this. Guy is shy, he tries to be nice to everyone. Is told girls like guys who do things for them. Guy does things for girl, girl doesn’t like him. Guy is annoyed tells girl she was just using him. Girl , never having liked him at all, is offended that he would expect anything out of her that she wasn't willing to give, so she complains on the internet that "nice guys" are douches who just want sex.

I don't think it's that girls don't like guys who are nice, I think it's more like they don't like guys who seem to lay down in front of them. I don't think anyone likes that except maybe really egotistical people.

[–]theskepticalidealist 3 points4 points5 points 13 years ago* (7 children) | Copy Link

Most people that fall under the category are like that don't do that to get girls.

Feminists and women in general essentially managed to convince many guys that they wanted men to be more like women, and many men took this literally, but women rejected them for it because thats not really what they wanted. I am a reformed one of those guys. I actually did think if I behaved this way women would be more attracted to me. The difference now is I realise my behaviour is not actually going to work and was never going to work. But because I grew up like this much of it is now part of my personality.

Here's a recent example. Girls went crazy mad for Robert Pattinson in Twilight. This sends the message to young boys that if they act distant, shy and depressed, and very emotional, this is attractive to women. But it really isn't. After being bombarded with these ideas in many different ways, and the idea that women will like you if you just be yourself, creates a "nice shy guy". The problem is that the nice guy turns into not such a nice guy after a while.

The reason women dont express what they really want accuratly, is because if they did they'd have come to terms with the fact that what women want isnt deep and mysterious, but its just as superficial and selfish as they see as what men want, arguably more so.

Guy is shy, he tries to be nice to everyone. Is told girls like guys who do things for them. Guy does things for girl, girl doesn’t like him. Guy is annoyed tells girl she was just using him. Girl , never having liked him at all, is offended that he would expect anything out of her that she wasn't willing to give, so she complains on the internet that "nice guys" are douches who just want sex.

Yes, but string that out over a long time and you get an actually nice guy turn into the jaded, cynical, resentful person these women complain about. But its the cart before the horse, most of these guys were created.

I don't think it's that girls don't like guys who are nice, I think it's more like they don't like guys who seem to lay down in front of them. I don't think anyone likes that except maybe really egotistical people.

Absolutely correct.

[–]robby7345 3 points4 points5 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Rattatoskk 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Reformed nice guy here too. Or, doormat, I suppose. Women don't see much of a difference it seems. Rightfully so, I would imagine.

You are spot on when it comes to observing what women swoon over and trying to be that. It's when all that effort comes crashing to a halt that the "nice guy" graduates though. I've noticed that the nice guys tend to become huge dicks.

They break their nice guy character one day, and see a spark, the spark they've been trying to kindle with the nice guy routine for sooo long. They have a headache, and snap at a girl, or they are genuinely busy, and say "look, I just don't have time for you right now". Rejection? Meanness? Suddenly this guy just got sexy.

She responds in a way he's never experienced from her, and he (sensitive guy that he is) makes the connection between meanness and attractiveness. That's how it starts..

But.. moderation is the first thing that gets lost when they feel empowered.

They add up dickishness with poon, and a monster is born.

I can't count the number of guys I've watched go through that metamorphosis.

The tragedy is that those guys really were interested in being life-long partners with someone special.

They just.. got on a power trip at the same time that they realized that women don't deserve their pedestal.

[–]SplashyMetal 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]theskepticalidealist 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]KRosen333 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I have both read the books and seen the films. Edward is of course described as attractive, but his key qualities are his ability to do or provide almost anything for Bella, and the fact that he cares her about her to the point of obsession. This obsession leads him to be very controlling, and were it happening in reality would be labelled as emotionally abusive.

I believe this near-abusive obsession is what makes him attractive. That's not to say that were it translated to reality it would be an attractive quality - I mean come on, he watches her while she's sleeping, he'd be in jail. But in the realm of fantasy, all male attention is desired, and there is nothing to be scared of.

Basically the ultimate fantasy that the twilight books portray is for a really hot boy who the main character wishes were in love with her to the point of a creepy obsession to fall in love with the main character to the point of creepy obsession.

In the absence of mind-reading, of course, this is a fantasy that can never be realised and is something no man can achieve, for he cannot make his every move fit a womans secret, unspoken desires.

[–]KRosen333 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]theskepticalidealist 3 points4 points5 points 13 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

You need to stop "being nice". Not in the sense that you're not a kind respectful person, just that you're not a push over, because invariably that is exactly what men mean when they say they are a nice guy. Women can be like this and get away with it, because they are allowed to be coy, they are allowed to be shy, they are allowed to be a little bit needy. You need to not let people walk all over you. Easier said than done I do understand, because I have the same problem.

However the number 1 thing to make sure you understand is what women really want. Being overly kind and sweet and respectful to a girl is usually not going to make her attracted to you, not in the way the "nice guy" does it. Not unless you have a lot of other socially dominant traits to make up for it, like really good looks, a super fun job or hobby, etc. What she wants is to feel like lots of women are attracted to you and other men respect you. Its not that she needs you to be better looking than she is, its about you having more social status. I genuinely used to think if I did enough nice things she'd think I was sweet and have some kind of weird sympathy for me, what a fool I was. Still not entirely sure where I got this idea, but its strong, and I have caught myself in that pattern of thought without realising it. Being a doormat is one of the most unattractive behaviours any man can have. If you cant change your behaviour, at least change your expectations, in that you'll believe if you do X for her she'll be attracted to you. Chances are she wont. Thats why I think of myself as a MGTOW now, if I find someone thats great, but Ive had to come to terms with the fact that my non-socially dominant personality is just not attractive to most women. It feels very much like the stages of grief, you have to mourn the loss of the dream and then you can move to acceptance of the situation

[–]spankaway 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

It's honestly nothing to do with being nice. "Mr Nice guy" is also synonymous with being spineless and boring. You can be nice while being confident and fun.

In context of this particular article, it means someone who is too 'nice' to make their intention known and flirt. Literally, the problem was that she was "stunned to find out they were interested". That's a hell of a problem.

Most likely this is your problem as well. Many very nice guys spend their lives drowning in pussy, but they tend to have charisma and confidence. Both of those have a natural component to them, but you can develop them as well - in some ways they're just social skills. You just have to get out there, and keep right on failing (failure is the engine of learning after all) until something clicks. It will probably happen quicker than you think.

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[–]ExpendableOne 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

Everyone is allowed to have sexual preferences, regardless of their gender, but they should at least have some sort of understanding as to where those preferences come from, whether those preferences are healthy/unhealthy and how to reconcile those preferences with their personal views/opinions. There are many sexual preferences that people have and that the rest of society would consider inappropriate(especially true with men). This is a similar issue. Preferences that stem from feelings of entitlement or sexist predispositions are not healthy, and shouldn't simply be justified just because "women feel that way".

In any case, this isn't even really an issue of actual sexual preference. Women aren't physically infatuated by confidence, that is an emotional reaction or a mental predisposition that is driven by social conditioning(which goes back to archaic expectations of masculinity). Even if you could qualify it as a sexual preference, you still have to be aware that it stems from social conditioning, and that women like over-rate confidence because it means that they don't have to be confident/assertive themselves(which goes back to the issue of cowardice, entitlement and/or laziness), because it means that this person has achieved a certain level of success that they latch onto or because they believe that it makes a man valuable in of itself(which is, really, circular logic); all of which fall back on gender roles and sexism.

[–]herbandmargie 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

You make some pretty bold unsubstantiated claims that are rooted in feminist ideology.

You honestly think you can prove that women have zero biological predisposition to be attracted to confidence?

Please. Even feminist men, who exude everything anti-traditional-masculinity repulse feminists, who by all means have disregarded their own "social conditioning" of gender roles.

I won't even say there isn't some social aspect of sexual preferences, but it is impossible to separate what is innate and what is not.

The bottom line is that it really doesn't matter.

You are literally trying to argue that womens sexual preferences are not valid because by your interpretation it is "circular logic".

It is very simple. Women have every right to choose who they want to be in a sexual relationship with, just as men do. Go ahead and criticize them for it, but they have every right to assume you are being a bitter woman hater for doing it.

[–]ExpendableOne 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Physical attraction is based on physical attributes, not behavior or demeanor. There is no such thing as a biological predisposition towards a non-biological, or learned, attitude(not to mention that, even if there was something purely biological there, it would still be wrong to assume that it isn't heavily, if not entirely, driven by social dynamics and peer reinforcement). Even if you were to make the false assumption that women are just naturally predisposed to be sexually attracted to a social/personality trait(based on your own poorly founded claim), that still doesn't really justify the attraction just because it exists. It would be like saying "men are sexually attracted to submissive girls who never talk back and do whatever men tell them to;therefore all women should aim to be that submissive and if you think there's something wrong with that you just hate men". You can't just take everything for granted, simply because women feel it, and there has to be a certain level of accountability and self-awareness from women, just as it would be expected from men. The fact that women emotionally reject effeminate men doesn't disprove the existence of social dynamics that drive women to over-value confidence in men or that cater to women's personal whims about men. Feminist women were subject to the same social dynamics long before they became feminists, they simply refuse to be accountable for their own sexist predispositions. You can keep assuming whatever you want but, at the end of the day, you're still trying to justify attitudes that are completely irrational and detrimental to women, men and gender equality.

[–]herbandmargie2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Physical attraction is based on physical attributes, not behavior or demeanor.

Do you wish this were true? I am completely dumbfounded how you can state this as fact. It sounds as if you have literally no experience with women. I am not trying to say that to put you down, but its just amazing you said this as fact.

Women are attracted to men because they make them feel a certain way. Whether that feeling is purely physical, purely emotional, or a combination of both depends on the circumstance and situation of the individual.

There is no such thing as a biological predisposition towards a non-biological, or learned, attitude

Is that a fact? Where did you come up with this mumbo jumbo? So I can be biologically predisposed to like skinny women, but cannot be biologically predisposed to like nice women? Really?

You are literally arguing for an all or nothing point of view that refutes the impact of any biological/evolutionary traits that relate to male/female interaction. I am at least conceding that it is not all or nothing, but a combination.

. You can't just take everything for granted, simply because women feel it, and there has to be a certain level of accountability and self-awareness from women, just as it would be expected from men.

Do men need to be held accountable for desiring pretty women? Should they be shamed for having physical preferences that do not include all women?

[–]ButterMyBiscuit 3 points4 points5 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ExpendableOne 59 points60 points61 points 13 years ago* (14 children) | Copy Link

You know, I always find it funny that women like this will often try to tell men to "not take it personally", as if that somehow made it any easier for the recipient to deal with it or if it justified every rejection, motivation or action from women. First of all, it doesn't. Rejection still hurts and it's often delivered very poorly and apathetically by a lot of women. Secondly, it is absolutely personal. It's a personal judgement made against another, based on who they are as a person. If you tell some guy he's not even worth your time, and do so in a very dismissive or dehumanizing way, because of who they are, that is absolutely personal. If you're okay letting someone else in but not okay letting others in based on personal judgement, that is pretty much the epitome of "personal". The fact that someone would even dismiss that direct personal judgement or the way that judgement might affect others, clearly seeking to absolve themselves of any wrongdoing, speaks a lot about how a little someone really thinks of others. Just like saying something like "I'm not racist but..." doesn't make something any less racist, saying something like "it's nothing personal but..." doesn't make it any less personal. The fact that some people might persist or "play" their way around the personal rejection doesn't make the initial rejection any less personal.

Also, it's kind of sad that this woman would simply dismiss men's sexuality, simply because they come off as non-threatening or because they aren't openly sexually aggressive enough with her. It's not really okay to assume men are just asexual eunuchs, simply because they don't fit this male stereotype of masculinity or because they make an effort not to be threatening(a message instilled onto boys from a very early age). They are just as much of a sexual being as the next guy and, even if they weren't, they are still emotional beings too. It shouldn't be up to men alone to express heterosexual interest, especially not when society seems to try so hard to shame men for that heterosexual interest in the first place, and shamelessly desexualizing, or infantilizing, men because they are "too nice" is not okay; nor is it okay to simply expect men to be sexually assertive, dominating or aggressive because they are men.

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What you're saying is true in general, but doesn't necessarily apply to the specific situation of a man hitting on a woman. Neither men nor women really have much control over who they are or aren't attracted to, and I'm pretty sure that's what she means when she says don't take it personally. If you go and hit on someone, and they aren't into it, they aren't into it. The best thing a woman can do is let a guy know that she's not into it. I'm not saying that women necessarily handle this part of it well, but like the author says, the whole situation is just a little uncomfortable, for both men and women.

And to the point about dismissing mens' sexuality. Again, we're in the context of a man coming on to a woman. This point actually really reminded me of myself when I first started trying to go after women. I would hide my sexuality, and play up the buddy stuff. And it didn't work, partly because I was masking my real intentions. I don't mean you should go hyper-agressive sexual, but if you're talking to a girl because you're interested in her, it's important that you don't mask that. Being honest about why you're talking to someone can go a long way, just in general.

[–]ExpendableOne 25 points26 points27 points 13 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

Whether or not someone is or isn't attracted to someone else doesn't make that judgement any less personal. If I am not attracted to overweight women and then turn a woman down because of her weight, that is still a personal judgement. If a woman turns down a guy because he isn't confident or outgoing enough for her, that is still a personal call she's making against that person. Whether you are conscious of it or not, you are still making a personal assessment on someone else's personal traits, and making a decision based on that personal assessment. Take ownership of your own personal judgements.

Also, there is nothing wrong with a guy that doesn't act in an overtly sexual way with a complete stranger, and it's no more "dishonest" or malevolent than someone who watches what he says/does in order to not offend others. Either way, it is still completely wrong for women to assume or project asexuality on a man simply because he keeps that part of himself somewhat private. It's like calling a woman a slut/whore, and treating her like dirt, because she expresses any type of sexual promiscuity or calling her a prude because she doesn't act in an overtly sexual manner. These are two sides of the same coin. Being too nice doesn't mean someone doesn't want to have sex, and it's absolutely wrong to perpetuate the idea that sexuality and consideration are mutually exclusive.

Some men might not be comfortable being that direct about their sexuality(especially given the amount of mixed messages, shame, guilt and vilification men face over their heterosexuality), some men might be sexually submissive, some men might be inexperienced, some men might be shy/reserved, some might be afraid of coming off as creepy(which, does happen a lot, given society's current predisposition against male heterosexual interest), some men might want to be considerate towards others and some men might simply wish to build an emotional/personal bond before feeling comfortable enough to open up their sexual side with someone. There are many valid reasons why some men might not be overtly sexual with people they just meet, and it is wrong to desexualize or infantilize those men, if not write them off entirely, simply because they don't fit this "aggressive male" stereotype.

You being more successful by being more overtly sexual doesn't mean that there isn't an issue, it just means that you played up to a stereotype that shouldn't have been imposed onto to you in the first place. Finding success within the confines of certain social expectations doesn't mean that those social expectations are warranted, fair or justified in the first place.

[–]qball80014 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]spankaway -1 points0 points1 point 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

some men might be sexually submissive

Sexually submissive men actually benefit more from being socially dominant than most men. Competition for dominant women is fucking fierce, due to the (real or perceived) scarcity, and most of them seem to want an 'alpha sub', and prefer someone with an aggressive dominant personality.

Obviously, kinky people are all different and like all kinds of different things. But this is my experience. Hell, even my own fling with a domme (I'm usually on the other side of the equation) started out with me pulling her hair and ripping off her panties in the street while making out after our first date.

If you're a submissive woman looking for a male dom playing up your meekness might be attractive (though many of us like our subbies feisty) - but if you're a submissive man you should be cultivating all the standard masculine characteristics. And probably working out. The whole 'your dom should be able to overpower you' is very much a factor of male-dom relationships in general.

Sorry, just some kink outreach in this strange, strange thread.

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women sit back like Julius Ceaser and give the thumbs up or thumbs down

I don't support this way of thought, and while I can't flip a magic switch and change all women at once, I try to do my part by discussing these matters with women I come in contact with. I don't tell my friends to wait for the phone to ring three times before they answer, and I definitely don't encourage the let's-trick-guys-into-buying-us-drinks behavior. I think it's wrong. I'm all for honesty and being upfront.

I hang out with mostly guys, so I do see a lot of unfair treatment from women who think they are hot shit. When my friends get rejected by girls, it's always a sad moment, but sometimes, they're just downright rude. One of my friends asked a waitress out, and she told him to think of a better pickup line. We spent 30 minutes brainstorming. She came back, and he said, "I couldn't think of one, so why don't we try to come up with one over dinner." He's a nice guy, he's not trying to trick her into anything, just asking her to dinner. She responded very loudly, "That's all you could come up with? Absolutely not!" If there's ever a moment where a waitress didn't deserve a tip, it was that moment.

So yes, I see the constant rejection, and sometimes it's necessary (eg: they have a boyfriend), but there is no need for the rudeness I've seen. I can see why someone would be hurt by that treatment. In fact, if a girl is being a bitch to you, I can understand why you'd start "negging" to play it back to her. She's set the tone for rudeness, so treating her the same would make sense.

My problem is these "negging" guys preying on girls who don't deserve it. The quiet, weak ones, who would give you a great conversation if you gave them a chance. I try to be nice to people, and when some guy starts trying to knock me down over some manipulation shit, it's going to ruin my night. And then I'm going to reject them for being assholes, so no one wins.

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4. Don't leave your sexuality at the door

There have been a remarkable number of men apparently hitting on me, who I only realized later were attempting to do so. I've been stunned -- stunned -- to discover that they were interested in me sexually. Bottom line, guys: if you aren't owning and feeling your sexuality, I'm not gonna feel it.

But don't be a creep, right? RIGHT? Because these guys are never being unjustly called creep and portrayed as such in movies, right!?!?

I think a lot of men suppress the fact that they want to fuck because they want to make women "feel comfortable." The problem is, flirting and sex appeal are by definition slightly uncomfortable. That's why it's called sexual tension. How many times have you heard a girl say, "It was so hot how I was in my comfort zone the whole time I was around him..."?

But you just wrote a whole fucking article about NOT MAKING YOU UNCOMFORTABLE!

The truth is, you making me feel comfortable will usually make me so "comfortable" that I miss the fact that you're dtf. Because when you act all buddy buddy with me, I assume you just want to be my buddy.

What. The. Fuck.

Nobody wants to fuck Mr. Nice Guy. So stop being him if you want to fuck.

All of this is exactly why I never even could enter the dating-game.

People keep telling me that one day I will just meet someone... Bullshit. I am just the impersonation of "unattractive".

But I accepted that, and don't even try, and still I sometimes happen to be the bad guy, because of my passive, asexual behaviour.

Like I fucking owed it to the women to hit on them.

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TEN THINGS TRANSLATED

If some chick freaks out when you tease her then you should turn around and run. If she gives you a disapproving look then ask her if she has any candy in her purse.
Don't pay for anything. If she asks you to buy her a drink, ask her if she's unemployed and offer to help her find a job.
Don't put yourself down. Unless it's going to be hilarious.
Don't touch her, and if she touches you in any way, accuse her of being "too handsy." See #1.
Never coddle a woman for any reason. Tell her to "grow a set" and "man up" when she whines about something. Make fun of her when she shows weakness or tries to prove that she's "tough."
Pay more attention to her friends than to her.
Treat her like she's asexual while you check out other women.
Don't try to make her laugh. Try to make YOURSELF laugh. Your #1 goal shouldn't even be getting laid. It should be making yourself laugh until your stomach hurts.
Be the cockiest sonofabitch anyone has ever seen. Overdo it to the point of satire.
Always make sure you call her a creep before she has the opportunity to call you one. Reject her. Reject every girl in the bar. Go to a new bar. Make fun of everyone including yourself. Laugh until your eyes water. Drink. Repeat.

And above all else, if some chick tells you she writes for the Huffington post, excuse yourself to go to the bathroom and then turn around and talk to someone else.

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This is basicly : read my mind about my arbitrary rules that contradict one another , if you guess wrong of the ~~card I am thinking of~~ rule I am thinking of then you are a misogynist arrogant disgusting pig or a pervert that is all

I don't really care how much money you make or what kind of car you drive. I mean, I care, but I don't care that much.

So do this. but not too much,, what is too much Idun know ..LOL

Don't put yourself down --I get that you're going for the self-deprecating thing.

So don't be modist or polite, but if you are not modest or polite then I will think you are an egotist that did not stop talking on how great you are .

Unless it's obvious that I'm really into you, stop touching my lower back, elbow or shoulders

Don't touch me even not even friendly ,, unless by way of ESP I tell you to touch me then if you don't touch me I will think you are gay or not into me .

Don't assume I don't like whiskey or that I don't know anything about cars because I'm a girl. Now, I happen to hate whiskey and know next to nothing about cars -- but I don't like you assuming this is true.

So assume that I like guy stuff , even though I don't LOL -- But if you like "girly" stuff then you are a weak fag and Never !!! Never assume that I like girly stuff then you are a misogynist

I could go on, but why ? Best thing is not to date her , move on to a woman who is not demanding you to dance for her and not even know what the tune is .

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The way I see it is that success is sexy (for men, a lot of men find it threatening in women), and a high income/status toys are an indicator of success. This is just how it goes in our Western consumer society, for a number of reasons.

But bragging about anything is usually looked down upon, and overtly bragging about money is especially seen as an unclassy thing to do. Certainly, if my date was bragging about how rich she was I would find that offputting, just because it seems impolite. There is always a balance between tasteful displays of wealth and being a rich jackass.

There is also an established culture of women being manipulated by money (because there are plenty of women will totally sleep with anyone that flashes some money that he's willing to spend on them). So women have learned to interpret someone bragging about their income as a judgement on their character.

If you do make a lot of money, absolutely that will help you with women, for good or ill - though it's not any kind of a requirement. But you have to treat the matter delicately.

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10. Don't neg

As much as I detest every single thing about PUA, here she actually says it works. Just not on her. She's just being greedy and inconsiderate to anyone else's personal preferences. Regardless of whether "negging" works or not, what she wants is that you don't base your approach on what works best for you, but what works best for her. This also involves a fair amount of mind reading, which she freely admits.

9. Don't lead with your money

While I agree that this is tacky, she again freely admits that it works, just not with her. Same problem as #10, being selfish and entitled. Moreover, she admits that she still cares about money and presumably wants you to pay for everything, you just have to pretend like you aren't because money grows on trees. She's like one of those luxury stores where nothing has a price tag - if you have to ask, you can't afford it. Again, as with #10, requires mind reading.

Then she calls you a liar - because as we all know, it's not the money that matters, just you being able to prove that it's how much you really have. Yep. This lady doesn't trust you. What she really needs you to do is bring your 1040 and your last pay stub on the date and nonchalantly leave them on the seat as you excuse yourself to go to the bathroom. At any rate, you not telling her about money is really just about creating a cover for her to pretend like she doesn't care about it. It makes her uncomfortable when you put it so bluntly and she has to pretend like she's not listening.

8. Don't put yourself down

Notwithstanding that this contradicts #2, I agree with it at face value. Except that men are no more guilty of this than women. The advice really falls flat on its face coming from the gender that is widely regarded as requiring a certain amount of compliments per minute to hold up their fragile egos. Pot calling the kettle black.

7. Don't get handsy

Contradicts #4 and just as #10, she ultimately admits that it does work. This time, even on her. But just as in #10 and #9, mind reading is required. Moreover, in this piece of advice she's really telling us you she's a cocky bastard (#4) who is better at your own game than you are (#10). Do as I say, not as I do. The Diary of a female ~~PUA~~ dating coach.

6. Don't coddle me because I'm a girl

This one is one hot mess. So she says that she really is just a stereotypical girl, but unlike #10, #9, and #7, that's something you're not allowed to figure out on your own. Moreover, she adds, "I'm smart, sarcastic, sweet, well-meaning, unsure, and racy. Yes, some of those are paradoxical. Hi. Have you met me? I'm a woman." So basically, all of #6 is moot because she's a total flake and you should know better, because she's a woman! Reading this is like watching a toilet flush.

5. Don't make fun of my friends

Okay, the real problem here is why she stays friends with loud, neurotic drunks in the first place. I agree that you shouldn't even bring it up - you should just run the other way as fast as you can. Even more to the point, this makes her paranoid. Why? If she herself admits that these friends are neurotic, why does it bother her if you say something about it? Isn't that kind of neurotic, to be so afraid of someone talking behind your back?

Based on personal experience, what she really wants is for you to pretend you don't notice any of her friend's faults until she brings them up herself, at which point you're supposed to reassure her that she's nothing like that. So here's this dating coach writing her own insecurities directly into her dating guide (#8) while telling you she's better at this game than you are (#7) and asking you not to notice (#6). Let's flush that toilet again and watch it go round and round.

4. Don't leave your sexuality at the door

Another hot mess of a comment, and it contradicts #7. We can basically just ignore anything that she says about this on the basis of it being a huge glaring double standard. Presumably she brings her sexuality to the table just by existing! This is, after all, a guide about how you should approach her and hit on her while she doesn't do anything other than judge. Then there's this whole creepy thing of her telling you not to be nice to her. I'm not even going to touch that.

3. Don't try to make me laugh

What she's really saying here is that you're not allowed to be unfunny (yes, that's doublespeak). Like #10, #9, #7, and #6, mind reading is required. If she doesn't think you're funny, she's basically going to think you're an asshole. But you're not allowed to be false in any way, you have to be so authentic it's magic. In reality, what this says about her is that she's passive aggressive and she has a false personality (hello #8). Contradicts itself, just like #4, #6, and whatever else I lost track of by now.

2. Don't be cocky

What she really means here is that she's too good for you. No matter how amazing you are, she can always do better. Like #10, #9, #7, #6, and #3, what you really need to do is read her mind to find out what she wants you to say about yourself, if anything. Suffice it to say, if you have any redeeming qualities that don't line up with her preconceived notions of who you are, it will only count against you. The first rule of dating Melanie Curtin is you don't fuck with her cognitive dissonance. She'll let you know who you are after she decides for you. If she decides she wants you, that's when you'll get to be confident. After all, you have nothing to be confident about unless you get in her pants.

1. Don't take it personally if I say no

I'm really not sure if this one comes first or last. I mean, the other 9 comments are basically all about how you're a sorry excuse for a human if you don't live up to her standards. Maybe there should be a disclaimer somewhere that if reading her list makes you lose your faith in humanity and contemplate suicide, skip ahead to #1.

Moreover, she's basically telling us to ignore everything else she says. After all, as she gave away in #6, she's a total flake. Her standards are all subject to change without prior notice. There's actually NOTHING YOU CAN DO to please her, short of trying to find the tingly sensation between her legs with a divining rod. Honestly, by the time she wrote #1, she should have just hit Ctrl-A and then Delete and saved us the trouble of reading it.

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Topics with peripheral relation to /r/MensRights will generally be left to the discretion of the subreddit population. Sometimes these topics are difficult to judge whether it is peripherally related or unrelated. In the case of peripheral discussions, such as politics/MR or race/MR or LGBT/MR, where the focus isn't specifically on men's rights (generally: topics that don't discuss the treatment of men specifically, or issues with feminism, but rather topics that indirectly affect men), users are asked to make a self-post with a description of how they feel the topic relates to Men's Rights or why they think the topic is important to the /r/MensRights community. Note: there may be politics/MR, race/MR or LGBT/MR topics that do directly affect men and are therefore not covered by this description - not all multi-topic discussions are "off-topic" or peripherally related.

The mods define MensRights topics as being those that address the treatment of men, not merely those that are specifically based in the legal system.

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I think we're getting into the territory of views on government, not what's pertinent in today's society. I agree that some lady being obnoxious on the internet isn't the most pressing issue at hand, but the fact that our government is influenced by these people can't be ignored, whether you think it should be that way or not. When it's acceptable to shame men publicly, it leads to more nefarious treatment. Surely you can see how that's a problem. Personally, I feel like this woman was mostly just being direct about what she wants, which is a good thing, and I agree that freaking out over it is silly, but it's not always as trite as this article is.

Edit: I feel I should add that the entire purpose of courts and government is to act as an extension and enforcer of the things that a particular society deems acceptable or not, and are supposed to be subject to the biases of the majority of the population. Laws are written to codify the moral standing of a culture. That's literally their entire purpose by definition.

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I feel I should add that the entire purpose of courts and government is to act as an extension and enforcer of the things that a particular society deems acceptable or not, and are supposed to be subject to the biases of the majority of the population

I would have to disagree, laws are not supposed to be set up where 51% of the population agrees on something the other 49% have to follow the law, its a simple look at the law issue. I think laws are supposed to follow the Constitution where no one group is supposed to have control over a different group because of the amount of people they have. When we start cherry picking laws that only help one group we start a discriminating snowball effect that we have today(selective service). If over 50% of the country says gay people can't get married , then by your laws definition they can't get married. I would get rid of the government forcing laws on marriage and people in the first place.

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I admit I only skimmed it but I see no reason for this to be in mens rights, It's one woman talking about her sexual preferences. If anything she is providing a user manual on how to get into her knickers. I don't actually agree with all her points as all women are different to some extent, but some of that is actually good advice to men in the dating scene.

10. Don't put her down
9. Don't be a flash bastard
8. Be confident
7. Don't get touchy feely (unless you get the green light, you will know it.)
6. Don't insult her intelligence
5. Don't slag her friends off (until she does then you agree with every point she makes.)
4. She likes masculinity and she expects to see some of it, she want's a fuck not a gossip.
3. I'm very funny, she can go to hell on this one.
2. Don't be obsessed with yourself.
1. Abort and move on when it's clear you are getting nothing.

Really she seems very straightforward about the whole thing. She seems like a sexual woman, who a) isn't ashamed about it and b) actually likes men.

I'm sorry but I can't see any valid reason this is in MR and I think it's detrimental to the place to see this here especially with the tone it is delivered, if anything this is just providing cannon fodder for the likes of SRS and AMR. Part of me is wondering why the admins left it here along with a few other posts recently that somehow managed to get to the top of the MR, can we exercise a little discretion in what we post here and maybe put things like this in another forum more suited to general gender discussion?

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It's silly stuff from the Mystery Method that worked, like, 10 years ago.

Because women have changed that much in 10 years? Come on. Do women like being sucked up to and put on pedestals now? No they dont.

And to some extent today, on needy and insecure women

The women its least likely to have an affect on is unattractive women who don't get treated as though they are sex on legs by every man they meet, for them it may actually be nice to be treated that way. But most men are interested in women that do require a demonstration that you are not like that.

If you're in the market and pickup is your thing, you really have to step back sometimes and ask yourself if you're doing it because you love women and want to be with them. Or if it's because you're angry at women and are using microaggressions like negging to get back at them.

Once again as I understand it the purpose is not to insult her, if she feels bad about herself you're doing it wrong. The purpose is to say something subtle and minor only to seed the feeling that you arent someone who has put her on a pedestal and so is less likely to be needy. Women dont like needy men because that doesnt show you have social dominance. Women want a man who she believes is wanted by lots of women, can have lots of women, but wants to be with her. The behaviour of putting a woman on a pedestal unconsciously says that she is better than him, which means she can do better, which leads to her feeling less attracted to him.

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While this is not as well written as it should be, most of these points are pretty logical.

Don't neg-if you disagree with this then I don't like you so we should stop now.

Don't lead with your money-as a man I feel like this is also a no brainer. Why would you want to be with someone who you have to show off your money to to impress?

Don't put yourself down- as someone who used to do this, yeah, it's not attractive.

Don't get handsy - I hope no one has problems with the idea of personal space.

Don't coddle her because she's a girl - don't be a sexist asshole?

Don't make fun of my friends - using a little empathy, I think most people would be annoyed if a stranger insulted their friends so yes.

Don't leave your sexuality at the door - finally we get one that gets a little iffy. Basically, show interest but not too much. While that line can be extremely difficult to find she brings up a good point. Why would she pursue you if you show no interest in her?

Don't try to make me laugh - I get what she's saying about false laughing. Don't be fake. Don't sit there and try to come up with something clever. If it happens, then hurrah, you have similar senses of humor.

Don't be cocky - This one is interesting to me as my most recent ex actually said she liked how cocky I was the first time I met (yay alcohol). However if you actually read her explanation, the distinction she make makes sense. Be confident enough in who you are that you don't need to show off. Good life lesson there.

Don't take rejection personally - Her comment on "being a man" aside, this is good advice. Attraction is weird and often you will get turned down. Learn how to handle rejection without being an asshole about it. That's very solid advice as well.

OP, it seems like these are pretty basic ideas on how to be a decent person....

[–]robby7345 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I love how she says " It works sometimes, but I don't like the doucheness behind it so don't do it!" I don't pick chicks up , so it's useless for me either way, but telling a guy to not use something that works simply because she doesn’t like the idea of it is kind of silly.
See number 1
Now this one is sound advice I do agree with. Nobody likes negativity.
If a girl likes you, she will want you to touch her. So a good way to tell if a girl is into you is to touch a non-molestation part of her like shoulders or knee and see how she reacts. Also goes in line with number 1, it's a good way to tell if a girl is actually in to you without outright asking ( which will then make them not like you because you asked the question, which is insecure, and most girls hate insecurity.) So if a guy touching her annoys her, than that’s a sign that it is working.
Coddling has nothing to do with sexism and everything to do with not knowing the person . I don't see a problem with it unless it's phrased in a way that points out her being a girl aka " Are you sure you know how to play pool , you are a girl" That would be sexist and pretty dumb thing to say. But if you just leave out the assumption that because she is a girl she doesn’t know how to play it becomes more of a challenge. " Are you sure you know what you’re doing?" With a smirk is pretty much asking her to bring her "A" game and has no innate sexist connotations.
Um, I've never really heard of anyone using a person’s friends to flirt I wouldn't think it would be a good idea in general. So I don't have a problem with this one.
I half agree with her, you shouldn't be too passive if you are trying to flirt. I just hate how most of society villanizes and shame people for doing what most girls actually want.
I don't like the fact that she says she doesn’t want to fake laugh and blames the guy for trying to make her laugh. JUST DON'T LAUGH IF ITS NOT FUNNY. Simple as that, if someone dumb said something not funny I don't laugh, simple. I might do a awkward smile to show that I know it was supposed to be funny, but I wouldn't actually laugh if it wasn't funny.

9 I hate guys that are full of themselves too so I agree with her in theory but, some girls like it when a guy goes over the top and some girls don't. It's not really sound advice to say never do it, because it works sometimes.

This is a big bad one on her part. It is very personnel, regardless of how nice you are when you reject someone, you are still rejecting them. She doesn’t want the guy to be mad. That's fine, but its his choice to be mad.

[–]literallyschmiteraly[S] 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[+]Personage1 -1 points0 points1 point 13 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]literallyschmiteraly[S] 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[+]Personage1 -2 points-1 points0 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]literallyschmiteraly[S] 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]theskepticalidealist 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Aero06 -5 points-4 points-3 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]CosmicKeys 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]wutangclanthug9mm -4 points-3 points-2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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