The paradox of male friendship and it's link to desirability

uglysaladisugly · 2024-08-12T15:33:43+00:00

men don't know how to be friends or make friends with other men. They don't.

That is absolutely wrong.

Men are overall perfectly able to make and maintain strong healthy friendships that have significant positive impact on their mental health and quality if life.

Why do you hold this belief? Don't you know several strong men-men lasting and profound bounds?

Just_Another_Cog1 · 2024-08-12T15:03:22+00:00

men don't know how to be friends or make friends with other men.

lol wut?

I make male friends all the damn time, what the devil is this bullshit?

leosandlattes · 2024-08-12T14:40:08+00:00

Is that a fair blanket statement to put on men? My dad, brother, and boyfriend all have thriving social lives with a few best friends and a greater social circle beyond that.

To me it seems like a problem with environment and lack of socialization as a child that correlates to how sociable people are as adults. And perhaps this disproportionately is men, but then that's not something inherent about being a man.

wtknight · 2024-08-12T14:29:33+00:00

I've never had many friends and didn't have problems attracting some women. Many women like looks, attention, confidence and game from a man no matter how many friends he has. I wouldn't call myself a "sigma", but the sigma male trope does exist for a reason.

Competitive_Rock3038 · 2024-08-12T15:49:20+00:00

And now the paradox, men don't know how to be friends or make friends with other men

Who said that? I guess it's cultural, but in my part of the world men are very social and close to each other. Having a friend group since childhood or at least college while in your 40s are completely normal

attendquoi · 2024-08-12T17:00:49+00:00

Most men I know have very solid friendships...but obviously that's the bias: if I know them, it's probably because they socialize. Still, I think most men socialize just fine.

Windmill_flowers · 2024-08-12T14:59:04+00:00

I think photos with friends just make you appear sociable and more normal. It could be a photo of you and coworkers. It just signals that people can be around you. An even stronger signal is when there are women who look comfortable around you as friends

untamed-italian · 2024-08-12T18:09:35+00:00

Six days ago you posted about how watching the deaths of other human beings feels therapeautic to you.

When you accuse men of being unable to form friendships, consider the fact that the overwhelmingly vast majority of both genders experience the deaths of other human beings as sad at bare minimum. More often than not humans find the deaths of other humans traumatizing to witness.

You on the other hand called the experience of viewing the deaths of real people (including a man flayed to death in Mexico) as "vindicating". You describe your experience of witnessing their deaths as though you are proud of it and even compare yourself to a "hunter", despite all you are doing is just getting off to snuff film.

For anyone reading, the context I point to is more than sufficient to explain why OP is incapable of making friends and why OP projects that incapacity onto all men. It explains the issue whether or not OP is lying about this. For OP I'm sure it will remain a mystery.

Nucyon · 2024-08-12T14:36:31+00:00

Men have a hard time making friends because well... because you always on that damn phone.

Entertainment is readily available at any time at the push of a button, so why would you go for after dinner drinks with your collegues? Or to the game? Or to the karate club? Or that poker table your cousin is doing? Or any other place you'd make friends?

Stay home, watch another season of One Piece, I hear it gets good after the 7th.

There is no secret to making friends, you just have to meet people, ANY people, regularly and some you'll get along with and fewer yet you'll get along with WELL and those become your friends.

But you have to leave your house and physically meet a person.

TheSinofSodomy · 2024-08-12T14:38:01+00:00

Just because you want to achieve something, doesn't mean you will.
Just because something is desirable to the opposite sex, it doesn't follow that everyone of the sex will try to achieve that thing.
Just because something is desirable to the opposite sex doesn't make that knowledge widespread.

Allow me to elaborate. I think the basic claim that "having friends is a green flag" is hard to deny. Cool. But, if you're a guy who's struggling to date, I don't think this is the first thing that comes to mind. Many men will blame their height, fitness, income, etc. before looking to their lack of a social circle. I'm not saying they are right to do so, but I'm just describing their behavior.

But, let's say you do know that women appreciate a man with a good social life. What if you struggle to make friends? Is appealing to women really a good reason to try and make friends? I think not. Some of the better advice I see when it comes to self improvement is to not forget the self aspect. Going to the gym will probably make you more attractive, but that should be a side effect, not the motivator.

Lastly, I think you slightly misrepresent the "loneliness epidemic", as you put it. I don't think it's that men don't have friends per se, but they aren't able to talk to their friends (as easily) about their emotional issues. You could argue that this is just semantics (i.e. friends you can't talk to aren't real friends) but I want to state my position clearly here.

krackedy · 2024-08-12T14:54:39+00:00

I don't think it's true that men don't know how to be friends with other men.

I think male friendships often look different from female ones (don't talk as often, don't share feelings as often, etc) but that doesn't mean it's not a strong bond.

I am not a big fan of mindless chit chat with most of male friends but I love hanging out in person. I love doing shared hobbies with them. We don't always talk about our emotional state or vent to each other but we have each other's backs.

I do think men need to emotionally support other men better and be more open about sharing the tough times we go through though. I try to lead by example in that way by telling my friends I love them, hugging them, checking up on them often and dragging them out of the house.

sprckets21 · 2024-08-12T15:25:23+00:00

I don’t have the friends pic and I get days in Hinge star tab and get roses sent to me. Here’s the dilemma of the group pic, you need cool friends, they need to be good looking, but not as good looking as you. Then if you’re not the tallest, then she will just end up saying in her head she wants a different guy in your group and swipes left.

I got pics traveling in Italy, on a big boat, me driving a sports car. The pic that really kills and puts you over the top is having your shirt off. Skin sells, get in shape and take your shirt off on the beach or nice pool.

Only-Plate590 · 2024-08-12T16:43:31+00:00

Men know how to be friends with men based on shared interests - football, cars, beer whatever it is. Men are very bad at being friends when you need support. Women are the opposite - women are interested in people men are interested in things.

I'd agree with you that a woman would like to see a man with friends - ideally of both genders so she can see he's not some weirdo. But all he needs to do is go to his local pub and take a group photo. Social proof established/job done.

Neptune-Jnr · 2024-08-12T17:28:04+00:00

Men don't have a hard time making friends. Making friends just doesn't substitute the intimacy of a romantic relationship.

Flightlessbirbz · 2024-08-12T18:34:33+00:00

Most men have friends they hang out with and could have pics with. The problem with many male friendships tends to be a lack of depth, which has its own negative effects on a person’s mental health, but doesn’t impact having the appearance of a social life.

As for if having pics with friends is helpful for dating apps, I’ll just say I never swiped left because a guy didn’t have pics with friends. I did sometimes swipe left if it was just group photos and it wasn’t clear which one he was. So definitely don’t pull the “where’s Waldo?” Best to have your main pic just be you, though other people in the background are okay as long as it’s clear which one you are.

Barneysparky · 2024-08-12T16:22:41+00:00

I feel like I've said this a million times here. If you cannot maintain solid friendships you don't have a chance in hell in maintaining a solid relationship.

There is no debate on this. A diagnosed psychopath is going to weigh it talking about how he maintains a relationship with a homeless woman by setting up a bunch of rules now, and I don't want to hear it.

Join leagues. Make friends.

Clementinequeen95 · 2024-08-12T15:20:45+00:00

I consider it a red flag if a guy has just pics of himself on his profile

GridReXX · 2024-08-12T14:31:48+00:00

And now the paradox, men don’t know how to be friends with other men. They don’t. Interests can be similar, ideas can be similar, even music preference can be similar, but the loneliness epidemic still persists against men. So why is that? If we argue that desirability is linked to a males social circle, then why is it that men have a hard time making friends?

I think feminine-coded people seem to better at nurturing and forming strong intimate bonds? They seem to be better at the mutual maintenance (effort/considerations/centering others) and mutual care required to inspire ongoing affection and long-lasting connections.

I think masculine-coded people bond easier when there’s a clearcut direct objective. Like in battles or athletics. But outside of that they seem to falter.

I think fraternities help for men. The male family and male friends I know who joined frats, still have male friendships. And have an easier time striking up new male friendships throughout their life.

Same for guys who had a great bonding experience on a sports team or musical band or the like.

Same for guys in ROTC or the armed forces.

Same for guys who go fishing, hunting, play pickup basketball/soccer/hockey, or play D&D together (activity-based friendships).

But yeah outside of those things being the glue, guys do seem to falter more than gals when it comes to nurturing and maintaining interpersonal relations.

VWGUYWV · 2024-08-12T14:58:42+00:00

Outside of urban areas, the acceptable ways for adult men to make new friends are at work, through a hobby, or through family and friends.

A bachelor just trying to strike up a friendship with another bachelor is often seen by one party as a possible gay date invitation.

Men aren’t homophobic so much as we generally don’t want to go grab a drink with a gay guy hitting on us.

I am generally friendly and have had this happen several times. A guy that seems straight acts happy to see me and wants to hang out. I go and it turns out he thinks we are on a date and it’s awkward as hell. Or they ask me to hang out, and my spidey sense tells me not to and I end up being right.

A lot of gay men are hypersexual, desperate, like straight men or like bi or gay men that are masculine. Some gay men have a kink with “turning” guys.

If there were fewer men in the closet and if men weren’t so horny, then it would be better for everyone.

Also, so many straight men avoid or are mean to gay men that when a gay man meets a straight guy that is friendly he thinks it is flirting.

In urban areas, there is more of a gay scene and fewer people in the closet. Closeted gay men in more rural areas live bizarre lives and they should just move to a city for their own sake.

When women meet, they don’t have the underlying concern of “is this a lesbian trying to bang me?”

I’ve had people here tell me this is all BS, but it is 100% a thing.

As a bachelor, I feel and see it acutely. You are highly suspect if you don’t fit a traditional role. And gay men around you hope you are closeted gay and they can date you. That is if you are attractive. If you are a fat ugly single guy then people assume you just can’t get a woman. So it is a weird compliment of sorts.

Downtown_Cat_1173 · 2024-08-12T15:35:47+00:00

I think a lot of this has to do with homophobia, toxic masculinity, and patriarchy. Men are afraid of seeming to be too close and too supportive to other men.

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KayRay1994 · 2024-08-12T15:15:44+00:00

This is one thing i despise about dating apps and why im not on them - everything is seen as performative or a photo op. I hang out with friends every weekend, but we’re all not picture people and unless some third party suggests a group photo, we won’t take one. This goes for hobbies and activities too, when i’m doing a hobby (hiking, for example), i’m present in the hike. I don’t care about taking photos of myself hiking. Neither do my friends who are hiking with me.

Now to the point of this post, the fact that “i don’t have friends, its hurting my chances on dating apps because I can’t display it on dating apps” its all performative, it’s all an act. Men should make more friends, many men are lonely on multiple levels, but please stop seeing everything (including making friends) as a means to an end as far as dating goes. Make friends for the sake of making friends and building a support system.

As for the how? build familiarity, if you’re a regular at hobby groups, the gym, some pubs, even class and you remain socially open, you’ll normally start talking to other dudes (or they’ll start talking to you) and something will build from there, if you like each other’s vibe say you wanna hang out and let things go where they may.

Crimson-Pilled · 2024-08-12T15:41:13+00:00

The "loneliness epidemic" still persists because its romantic loneliness, not platonic loneliness, that causes the most suffering. Tired of people pretending romance isn't an important thing when it is a constant theme of our culture and our most base desi
Because it is hard, men don't succeed at it and women find success attractive. Women love winners.
Both men and women find men are disposable, so like with relationships, male friendships are often based on utility. You can't feel deeply about your "friend" who drops contact when things get rough any more than when a woman does it. Sperm is cheap, and thus is the foundation of any relationship.

idlepetri · 2024-08-12T22:15:13+00:00

Men not being swiped on in OLD apps:

Men without friends in their profile photo
Men with friends in their profile photo

egalitarian-flan · 2024-08-12T22:51:25+00:00

And now the paradox, men don't know how to be friends or make friends with other men.

This must be a new thing primarily affecting the newest generation.

MouseAware809 · 2024-08-13T13:15:15+00:00

Now for men, let's assume you have no friends, would you accept that as a likely possibility you aren't being swiped on?

OLD is crap, I would assume I am wasting my time, when I live in a city and can just touch grass.

And now the paradox, men don't know how to be friends or make friends with other men.

OK, I am a freak of nature and so are most the men I know. Interesting.

So why is that? If we argue that desirability is linked to a males social circle, then why is it that men have a hard time making friends?

Yes it exists. This is hardly rocket science. Since COVID and lockdowns, socially isolating yourself has become an accepted norm. Look, your probably expecting guys to do the work and make friends with you. Well sorry, but you need to do the work, in order to have friends you need to be a friend.

Redpill-mind · 2024-08-12T15:18:40+00:00

but the loneliness epidemic still persists against men.

OR hey wanna hear a secret

There is no male loneliness epidemic

*

Shocker l know

thedarkracer · 2024-08-12T14:59:10+00:00

And now the paradox, men don't know how to be friends with other men. They don't

We do, we make friends much more easily than women. The only thing is it's more casual like you would hang around for months on a first name basis and not even know the full name of a person. Seriously, I got names in my phone directory with just the first name and place where I met them.

Our friendships are strong but not intimate like women have.

fundamentally_comfy · 2024-08-12T14:40:43+00:00

Most studies come to the conclusion that women are equally or more lonely compared to men, male loneliness epidemic isn't really a thing

Sandshrew922 · 2024-08-12T16:55:26+00:00

Men don't know how to make friends with other men?

That's wildly untrue. Most men have at the very least a handful of friends.

Which-Inspector1409 · 2024-08-13T13:52:21+00:00

Men doing hard things together is the basis of society, modern or otherwise. One of the most inane takes I have ever read on here.

Fair-Bus-4017 · 2024-08-13T19:42:32+00:00

This just isn't true. This very much is a personal problem you face apparently. Men befriend other men all the time.

The paradox of male friendship and it's link to desirability

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Title	The paradox of male friendship and it's link to desirability
Author	throwaway477549
Upvotes	0
Comments	177
Date	August 12, 2024 1:46 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1eqe66n/the_paradox_of_male_friendship_and_its_link_to/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/the-paradox-of-male-friendship-and-its-link-to.1527110 https://theredarchive.com/post/1527110