Male ego and entitlement to attractive women

bluehorserunning · 2019-09-17T18:30:58+00:00

It is frustrating how many men think the following:

1)All women are attracted to exactly the same things.

2)Personality plays no roll in attraction, only SMV.

3)Men are good judges of what women (individually or as a group) do, or should, find attractive.

In TOS, there were a lot of geeky women who were attracted to Spock, a lot to McCoy, and a lot to Kirk. If you’re a Spock, you have to find a woman who wants a Spock, no matter how many points you have. You can be the best Spock in the universe, you’ve beaten the final boss and achieved the max score (to mix my metaphors), and still be turned down if the woman you’re targeting wants a McCoy.

Except that there are more than three types of man, and more than three types of woman, so it’s even worse than that. There is a whole universe of women who never liked Star Trek in the first place.

Truedemocracy5 · 2019-09-17T01:22:32+00:00

You’re overall theme of this post is right, but already lost it at the goody two shoes part

TONS of media teach boys that the good guy wins in the end. There are very few shows and movies that don’t make the attractive jock out to be an asshole who doesn’t recognize what he has in the girl, only for her to get with the lovable loser. This is an absurdly common trope, and a boy raised on media - especially by a single mother - would believe it

That said I do find the entitlement to be pathetic. On both sides

orelon · 2019-09-16T23:53:24+00:00

It's a combination of FOMO, sexual immaturity, and low self-esteem. Ordinary men who haven't been with beautiful women tend to put them on a pedestal, because societal pressures convince men that sex with beautiful women is the #1 goal.

They're blinded by sexual curiosity and incapable of thinking analytically about the topic, usually until they're older and grow up a bit. It's easy to get outraged that "Stacy" doesn't date them and only dates assholes, because from their perspective the only thing worthwhile in this entire existence is sex with Stacy.

If instead the guys took a step back, realized that Stacy is a flawed person just like any other flawed person, and that sex with her would be a completely unremarkable, fleeting experience at best -- followed by zero compatibility whatsoever -- they'd detach from the expectation entirely.

Faces and physiques are only a tiny part of what makes a person "attractive." Sex feels pretty good regardless, and in many cases masturbation can even be better. Plenty of men still masturbate despite being in relationships with beautiful women, often thinking about other women that they haven't been with.

It's an innate desire for novelty (Coolidge effect) and curiosity, blown out of proportion and tangled up with insecurity.

tldr; Putting pussy on a pedestal, when in reality: "for every beautiful woman, there's a man that's sick of her bullshit."

NockerJoe · 2019-09-16T23:28:47+00:00

The male psyche can very easily fall into this "everyone is having fun but you" hole and social media and the internet just makes it worse. I've had friends strike out and then lash out at me multiple times, because in their head I get to fuck Stacy and I'm some kind of giga chad and they aren't.

The other issue is that men who fail are discouraged from venting at all. I'm in a social media group with a lot of people that have problems and unhealthy coping mechanisms like stress eating. One dude failed to get laid and ate like 5 McChickens and he got called an kncel for like 12 posts until some woman pointed out we don't know his circumstances and he's allowed to feel bad if things don't go his way. Meanwhile women in the same group can crash even harder for less and get nothing but support.

People need both a realistic idea of their chances of success, and a healthy coping mechanism for failure. Modern culture provides young men neither.

poppy_blu · 2019-09-17T01:16:50+00:00

Yeah that post was pretty disturbing. Where do some men get the idea that they have to become "worthy of sex?" Sex isn't something to be worthy of. Shit, animals do it. That speaks to some really low self esteem not to mention a total lack of emotional intelligence.

If this sub has done nothing else for me, its reinforced my/our feeling that we are parenting our son the right way, to not base his self esteem on the attention of women or the validation of others. I get attacked when I say that. Of course he;s not going to go through life never caring what people think, that's impossible. But if he has a good grounding in liking who he is, understanding that everyone will not like him, and the self awareness to adjust accordingly (like if no one likes you, well then you gotta check yourself), I'll be happy.

oneprettycoolcat · 2019-09-17T00:56:59+00:00

The entire concept of being worthy of a woman doesn't compute to me.

My guess is this is because you are a woman and the only men you notice at the ones you find sexually attractive.

ohheyhi99 · 2019-09-16T23:42:47+00:00

“Nobody has ever said that being a goody two shoes productive citizen would net you mad puss. It has never been implied by any movie, song, parent, family member, church.”

While I agree that men are not entitled to women, this bit from your OP is one of the most delusionally untrue things I’ve ever seen on Reddit.

Mr_Smoogs · 2019-09-17T01:23:26+00:00

Let’s talk about your comparison to the billionaire’s son and complaining that life isn’t fair. I’m not sure such an analogy helps your case. It is often the case that when people complain that they do everything right, and yet still get laid off they are met with compassion, empathy and kindness. It’s never “YOURE NOT ENTITLED TO A JOB OR MONEY.” It’s like shit lady okay I’m not entitled to people handing me money but that’s besides the point.

“I do everything right work hard like I was told to, have 3 full time minimum wage jobs and still I can’t catch a break.”

Do you really think that such dismissive and hostile attitudes as yours should be levied onto these people? Is it really even entitlement to believe that hard work should pay off in some way?

[deleted] · 2019-09-17T11:44:15+00:00

Although you are correct about this, I find your fixation over this issue mundane, most of your posts are for whiny men to stop whining.

I agree that whiny men should stop whining, but don't you think you are wasting a lot of your time for this rather elementary point?

Talkytalktalk · 2019-09-17T15:50:42+00:00

hungry people feel entitled to food. such privilege!

poppy_blu · 2019-09-16T23:43:37+00:00

"don't like that drug dealers get girls? Quit whining or start slangin, pussy"

LowCreddit · 2019-09-16T23:41:18+00:00

The entire concept of being worthy of a woman doesn't compute to me

This is a part of natural selection called sexual selection.

Troy016 · 2019-09-17T00:52:18+00:00

“Entitlement to attractive woman” I find that hypothetical as woman believe that shit way more about themselves 💀

MyDogLovesCorn · 2019-09-16T23:58:21+00:00

How about they stop being shallow and give ugly girls a chance?

The "ugly girls" don't have to put up with ugly guys, but the opposite isn't true.

gasparddelanuit · 2019-09-17T06:58:07+00:00

I wouldn't equate the expression of frustration about how unfair one perceives the world to be, in any respect, with an expression of entitlement.

See it for what it is, the expression of frustration. People express frustration for all manner of reasons. One common reason is if they notice "bad" human beings consistently having better outcomes than "good" human beings. Seeing that in the real world offends many people's sense of justness. It does not necessarily mean that they personally feel entitled to better outcomes because they believe they are a good human being. It just means that they wish they lived in a world where "good" behaviour was rewarded more than "bad" behaviour, whatever one considers those things to be.

People express this type of frustration all the time without being accused of entitlement, why should it be different if a man expresses his frustration with the type of men that women go after? Women do the exact same thing in reverse, including when it's not even related to good or bad behaviour, but no one accuses them of entitlement.

banananutbranmuffin · 2019-09-16T23:46:05+00:00

No you don't need to treat this like an issue to be fixed. There is no societal fix for men. You can't force women to have sex with men they're not attracted to.

That's not necessarily the issue though, the issue is that women have such tremendous unearned power and privilege. Women are valued by default, men have to attain value. Women are cared for default, men have to care for themselves so on and so forth.

That's the issue. We live in a society that enables and incentives lousy female behavior while also empowering them at the same time. This differs from how men are treated, where we look down upon men, work towards making their lives harder while actively attempting to disempower them.

Women having tremendous amounts of unearned power and privilege is the issue, not being able to get your peepee touched could be a symptoms of that.

Barely-moral · 2019-09-17T01:30:20+00:00

Read radicalizing the romanceless. If you already know about it. Read it again.

Life is not fair... well fuck it at least we could try to make it a little bit more fair. At least we could make it at least a little bit easier for those who are at the bottom.

That is what humans do. We see a world for what it is and then change it to make it the way we want it to be.

I am not even talking about radical changes or solutions just a little bit of a change that slowly starts to add up.

That is the way any meaningful and long lasting change for the better is achieved.

MisterJose · 2019-09-17T11:09:33+00:00

So, I posted it recently, but I guess not responding to you, and so here's what I think you have to understand:

Men gauge their lives in large part on how well they attract women, and they go out into the world and do things in order to be worthy of the feminine ideal that has so much power over them. And you can't just say, "Don't do that," because it's pretty deeply wired, and men who do have this idea come crashing down become disillusioned with women, misogynistic, etc.

So, given that, men start off using their success with women as a guide. Go out and do well, and I'll know I did well because I'll have earned the approval of the feminine. This is also why societies all over place and time have shamed women for acting 'slutty'. This doesn't come from nowhere, it comes from some level of understanding that the stability of society is dependent on controlling who gets the women. As repugnant as female circumcision is, for example, you have to ask why it ever came to be in the first place. It was to keep women from straying from their husbands, and retain the paradigm where the sex is spread around more evenly.

In our society now, we're way on the opposite side of that. We have this idea that everyone should be equal, and that starts to be that everyone is the same, and if we just let everyone pursue exactly what they want, no problems will ever emerge. What an idealistic notion that is, eh? It's reminds me of how hardcore Libertarians say, "Just have completely free, unrestrained capitalism, and everything will work out great." How wonderful if it were that simple, and how wonderful if it were that simple with men and women and sex and relationships.

So these guys who only pay attention to the most attractive women (AKA shallow) ....want women to stop being shallow and give them a chance. How about they stop being shallow and give ugly girls a chance?

See, right in this statement is this assumed idea that everyone should work exactly the same way from men to women and from women to men. And some people automatically assume that must be right, because it fits with our ideals of equality. But everyone who has actually had experience in society knows it's not that simple.

If some guys puppy died, i'd listen to him vent. But when that's you biggest problem then vent to a therapist.

Again, this is part of the problem, that we don't understand the magnitude of how much this can be an issue with men. My brother just dropped dead one day a few years ago. It sucks, but I'm okay. And that's one of several 'real problems' I've had to deal with in my life, none of which have utterly crushed my soul like being a man dealing with women, and the issues we're talking about, in the modern era.

And what made it worse was that I bought into people saying what you're saying: That it wasn't a 'real problem', there must be something wrong with me for feeling the was I did, and no one gives a shit. It took time and experience to be able to be confident that it was, indeed, a major issue to be taken seriously. So now I try to advise people to take other men seriously when they're going through similar things, because if you can understand what you might do to someone if they came crying to you that their brother died, and they felt like they can't go on, and you responded with callousness, belittling, and telling them their problem was a personal failing and not something anyone cared about...how in the fuck would you expect someone to react to a society that did that to them?

I think you need to realize there's just aspects to this you might not be understanding, and in general, when people tell you they're suffering massively, believe them.

Also, there's another thread that posted this link: https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/08/31/radicalizing-the-romanceless/ which I'm a big fan of, and I think explains what's going on better than I could. So I hope people who haven't read it will take the time.

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rus9384 · 2019-09-17T10:20:08+00:00

I'm smart, i get good grades, i have a good career .......I DESERVE attractive women.

"Only servants think about desert."

Something similar can be found in slave morality described by Nietzsche.

WHO TOLD YOU LIFE WAS FAIR? I swear i'm talking to 9 year olds. I wasn't born the son of a billionaire while some lucky dude out there was. Don't see me complaining that life isn't fair. Regular people know that life is unfair.

That does not mean we should not try to make it more fair, though. Because unfairness is luck, luck is uncontrollable and thus undesirable for humanity.

There's another comment where OP made the same remark in my last thread. If this isn't entitlement, i don't know what is. You're going to take away innocent lives because you couldn't get sex from an attractive woman.

I could understand that if shooting random people in the streets helped them getting pussy. But it doesn't.

bluehorserunning · 2019-09-23T01:06:18+00:00

Yes {sex is equivalent to eating}. I'm specifically talking about natural innate behavior. It doesn't matter if you will die if you don't eat; that's morally equivalent to not having children if you don't reproduce.

No, it is not. You will not die if you do not have sex, and the category of ‘innate behaviors’ is so broad that it is effectively meaningless. Furthermore, you are now extending the supposed right to have sex with whomever you want to the supposed right to reproduce with whomever you want. You are literally proposing the effective enslavement of the more attractive half of the population, male and female, to reproduction with every other human out there.

The desire for food and desire for sex with non-ugly people are both natural behavior that is innate to being human and that's the point I'm making. It is a part of humanity. Your man-hatred and irrationality doesn't get to redefine the human species.

snort food and sex are drives for every sexual species on the planet, up to and including hermaphroditic garden slugs. You are reducing humanity to nothing but copy machines with no higher purpose.

In that context, it's extremely strange to frame natural behavior as entitlement unless you're making the argument that some people don't deserve to live, which would make you a shitty person. You're not a shitty person are you? (don't answer).

Saying that we do not deserve the enslavement of other people in order to satisfy basic instincts != saying we don’t deserve to live. The equivocation of the two is effectively declaring that being infertile = not existing; that no person who has not reproduced has ever contributed anything worthwhile; that neutering our pets is the moral equivalent of murdering them; etc.

If you're human, it is your right. We were created to reproduce, full stop. It's the only reason we're here. And we generally don't reproduce with people we find ugly.

We weren’t created, period. We evolved to reproduce, but the great thing about being human is that we are the first species on our planet that can transcend the blind drive to do nothing but spawn. Isaac Newton never had children. Giordano Bruno never had children. Hundreds of other humans who changed the course of our species, and billions more who changes the lives of those around them for the better, never had children.

In addition, it’s fascinating that you not only think that you have some sort of ‘right to reproduce’ that should allow you to enslave other people, that transcends their right to control their own reproduction, but that you have this supposed right to do so with attractive people. Even if I agreed that this supposed right existed equivalent to a right to food, you’re basically saying that you should get filet mignon prepared to your specific taste every day for free.

⁠Prostitutes aren't attractive to most healthy people.

Sooo you’re saying that attractive people should have fewer rights than prostitutes to choose whom they do and do not sleep with.

⁠No hypothetical person gives a fuck if some woman likes his attitude or not.

Newsflash: women are people.

⁠Men can also throw women out, and/or refuse to accept their money if he happens to be a prostitute.

Are you also peroxiding that men should be enslaved to fat/otherwise unattractive women to reproduce with? Because if not, that’s an irrelevant point.

wanting sex with someone you're attracted to isn't entitlement.

Enslaving other people to your desires is not something anyone is entitled to, correct.

Your ugly side is starting to come out. It is indeed neutering the species. Your argument boils down to eugenics. Next you're going to start telling the disabled crowd that wanting to eat is entitlement too.

Being called ‘ugly’ by someone who wants to enslave half of humanity😂

Eugenics is artificial selection. People being able mutually to choose whom they reproduce with, even if they are attractive, = natural selection.

The species will go on even if attractive women aren’t enslaved as gestators for any man that wants them. That was just a stupid argument.

xdppthrowaway9001x · 2019-09-17T17:24:29+00:00

It's not strange to believe that hard work (being a productive citizen is indeed hard work, the opposite is homelessness) should pay off, nor is it "entitlement". If anything women are entitled because they think they deserve the perfect guy while not putting any value out into the world.

Title	Male ego and entitlement to attractive women
Author	Will_Stephens
Upvotes	40
Comments	243
Date	September 16, 2019 11:14 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/d58dw9/male_ego_and_entitlement_to_attractive_women/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/male-ego-and-entitlement-to-attractive-women.253850 https://theredarchive.com/post/253850

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