#MeToo is a Workers’ Rights issue and NOT “Buyers Remorse”

clawjelly · 2018-04-27T05:55:30+00:00

Michelle Williams, Oscar winning actress, received $85 for reshoots that her co-star Mark Wahlberg got millions for.

This has nothing to do with #metoo or harrassment. But anyways, salaries in hollywood are hardly compareable with any normal salary process. They are based on how many people the producers think a certain actor can lure into cinemas. In general men aswell as women prefer to watch men (for different reasons), hence male actors in general earn more money.

I hate when actors salaries are mangled into feministic topics. This is such a different world, we might aswell discuss salaries in another galaxy. And that whole criticism falls apart when you mention that female models make about 100x more than male models.

blackedoutfast · 2018-04-27T05:03:21+00:00

dude #metoo was months ago. no one still cares about all that shit except ugly girls and incel men

ffapod · 2018-04-27T13:35:30+00:00

I mean this is akin to the incels crying about their basic human rights to get sex. You are not entitled to become famous and rich.

SmurfESmurferson · 2018-04-27T02:43:32+00:00

I can see the women's point in the Weinstein/Hollywood cases. If a film is casting for a male and and female lead, it's a bit shit when then man's role is chosen on merit and the woman's is based on who will lower themselves to fucking the producer.

For many women in Hollywood there's no way of making it to the top without fucking someone they don't want to, which is something the male stars don't need to consider. I won't moralise on this, but calling out this one-sided culture of trading sex for a job and shaming the men who encourage it is a legitimate tactic.

I personally believe most of the accusations and think that the women are well within their rights to expose it for their own gain.

AnUndecidedPill · 2018-04-27T04:45:36+00:00

Michelle Williams, Oscar winning actress, received $85 for reshoots that her co-star Mark Wahlberg got millions for.

Because Mark is an A-list actor who's been in the game for a while and can successfully leverage that kind of payment. Michelle Williams is not so she gets paid accordingly. That's the problem with all the "pay gap" bitching - they fail to take into account that an actress like Williams is nowhere near the league of Wahlberg hence the difference in pay.

So when Michelle Williams gets to be as good as Mark, she can demand million dollar paychecks, until then she can shut her trap.

wtknight · 2018-04-27T03:19:22+00:00

What if a woman is actually attracted to her superior rather than just doing it for opportunity, and ends up eventually being rewarded by him with a promotion or something like that? Is it still exploitation?

InternationalProfile · 2018-04-27T04:47:30+00:00

I would say its buyers remorse if the woman wasnt qualified from the start but workers rights issue if she was

A few years before I met my girlfriend she gave her boss nudes, a blowjob and let him fuck her on his desk at work so that he would get her a new job that paid twice as much as she was previously making. She didnt really have any job experience that was relevant for her new job and it was a management position on top of that

You are making the assumption that those women would still be capable of getting those roles if none of the sexual shit happened. I am willing to bet that people in these positions more often than not would seek women who werent in a position in which they really deserved the role or had any of the credentials to get it in the first place. So its like their big break, not only would they be likely to get paid less for not having the work history of the others but they would also be very unlikely to turn down the sexual offer

What do you think is the purpose of being in a powerful position? This is the point, the allure. Im not condoning anything illegal, but power is power. Some people dont have any talent, who is to say what they can and cannot do with their body? Sex work, drugs, talent, charm, looks, you gotta have something to trade

I dont like these arguments because the wording is always so specific, like its not anti sex work but also not pro sex work. Ultimately women want power, they want the freedom to choose to either get ahead in life with their body OR manage be just as successful without using their body but in a situation that is never offered to them from the male and also never in a way that would make them feel pressured even though it is based around life changing decisions. It just seems like a really unrealistic world that doesnt make sense, like people can read your mind and are always looking out for you instead of themselves.

I honestly dont really care tho, whether the sex negative version or sex positive version, as long as it makes sense and is consistent overall I dont care which path leads to the solution

NalkaNalka · 2018-04-27T02:56:49+00:00

If some woman wants to fuck a guy to gain an advantage over her competition then it's nobodies business but hers.

Why do some people feel so entitled to tell everyone else what they can and cant do with their own bodies? Especially when it concerns something as personal and private as sex.

abaxeron · 2018-04-27T12:27:22+00:00

I'm afraid I'm not going to CMV your entire point, but instead say that I agree with you. I hope mods will forgive me for this unconventional take on your post, and I also should point out that I'm neither an American citizen nor resident, and in my outskirts of civilization, workplace sexual harassment doesn't get a fraction of the attention it gets in the US, because most people don't follow the news media as closely.

The point of my disagreement with you here will be not with your point that "sexual harassment and exploitation is bad", but that "many men here seem to think that just because some women willingly participated in sex with superiors for opportunity, it makes it all okay". We're not "okay" with other people having unfair advantages over us. This argument is dumb. I understand your aversion to personal responsibility (from what I understand, you're a woman), so I consider arguing around "is it women's fault" pointless - you'll stay with your opinion, because you obviously believe that women have no control over their own actions and don't have the rules of ethics applying to them; I'll stay with mine. I'll just point out that it was kind of a common theme, almost a trope, in "yesterdecades" fiction that a person who used mind-control technologies, drugs, or blackmailing to control someone in the position of power was considered a villain.

What I agree with - is that it should be completely legal for a woman to hear her boss say "Hey, would you like to go have lunch with me?" - and just straight-up, immediately, lethally shoot him in the face. The women who want to use men's natural sexuality-related vulnerabilities to their advantage - will never use this right. Raging maniacs who are simply paranoidally afraid of men - will use and abuse it. A couple such instances - and men will almost instantly get redpilled by millions, and demand the government to allow them to have male-only workplaces and training facilities (essentially colleges) as a matter of life and death. Women will be left alone to make their female-only films and clothes and feminist art, and men will be left alone to make spaceships. Everyone's happy. Any consequent nagging about "muh diversity in STEM" will be responded to with "Shut up, we don't care; we cannot allow you to run around killing the most productive members of society who try to literally build humankind's future".

skizzleshiver · 2018-04-27T02:47:18+00:00

Metoo is way for women to get attention (and possibly money) by accusing rich and famous men of everything and anything.

So glad I'm not famous right now.

Jammerly1 · 2018-04-27T02:53:18+00:00

So women are unable to make their own decisions??? Sorry, but that in infantilizing women.

paccount112 · 2018-04-27T12:45:08+00:00

You sure about that?

Every time I hear a man pontificate about “buyers remorse”, I always ask “Did you have to suck a dick for your job? So why should I have to?”.

You can always be valuable to the people who want to hire you with the work, that's worked well for men so far

Barely-moral · 2018-04-27T03:22:58+00:00

It is okay for a woman to trade sex for a better job oportunity if she is doing it willingly.

Why should it be wrong?

Two consenting adults are making a trade. Two consenting adults get what they want.

it’s a race to the bottom.

In the same way that men are more likely to get a raise if they work extra time for free. You could call that a race to the bottom.

An employer will hire and give raises to the employee that gives him what he wants. That will not change.

The only reason some women have to do sexual favours to compete is because they are competing against women that are willing to do sexual favours to get an advantage.

exit_sandman · 2018-04-27T08:33:00+00:00

If this is a Worker's Rights issue, then women who take advantage of this situation are strikebreakers. Recommended reading

Poster515 · 2018-04-27T14:06:10+00:00

And feminism is about equality, not hating men and double standards. And MGTOW is about finding freedom and self-fulfillment away from the plantation and not hating women and perpetual steeping in bitterness and anger. And religion is about love and not war or condemnation. Like everything else #metoo is one thing on paper and yields all types of garbage results when real people and real life come into the picture.

Priene · 2018-04-27T16:29:15+00:00

you are right. In my Country, ever since that weasel Hollywood guy was accused of abusing his power to coerse women into having sex with him, lots of actresses and models have come forth to expose the sexual abuse they were victims of . It's scary because if you have attractive young sisters, not only do you have to make sure creeps don't try to put their hands on them, you also have to worry with losers old enough to be their father trying to sleep with them.

Guys on this sub like to make it seem like women have a perfect life, all it's necessary for someone to have a life like that of a king is to be born with a pussy, but even gorgeous women have difficult, hard lives, and beauty, youth, wealth, none of that is a guarantee that they will be be safe and happy.

> , Oscar winning actress, received $85 for reshoots that her co-star Mark Wahlberg got millions for

Dude ain't even that hot, he's just a bag of steroids walking, and don't forget about Natalie Portman, she got wayyyyyy lesss than Justin Timberlake did for the movie no Strings-attached, and the story keeps going. Some dude getting paid millions and their co-star being lucky if they get half a million or so lel.

Entropy-7 · 2018-04-28T01:51:35+00:00

willingly participated in sex with superiors

You have to distinguish between "chain of command" superiors and socio-economic superiors. Within an existing structure, bosses should not be sleeping with subordinates. Feminists have their own view of why this is wrong but TRP simply says "don't shit where you eat".

Jian Ghomeshi and Harvey Weinstein didn't have any pre-existing employment relationship with their accusers. The latter wanted a) the rush of being with a famous or powerful man or b) benefits from that man's power or social status.

Hypergamy - in the classic, not TRP sense - is well documented. AWALT, if you will. Women seek men of higher SES, but now they seem to be weaponizing the fact that they will get jilted, especially if they overreach.

in Hollywood. . .women are still ridiculously underpaid

Not true. Hollywood is a free market and women are paid in accordance with their value. Male actors actually have to be able to act. Only a few can insert themselves into the system by way of their looks whereas the meme of an actress being "discovered" while working as a waitress is pervasive.

Setting that basic argument aside, the fact is that A-list actors are largely men because they get the best box office results.

Gone With The Wind is, accounting for inflation and population, the highest grossing movie in history. Do you think that is more because of Vivien Leigh or Clark Gable?

Without adjusting parameters, among the top grossing movies, only Star Wars: The Force Awakens and some animated pieces like Frozen and Beauty and the Beast stand out as having strong female leads.

In many movies, the male lead will have a female second banana who may or may not be a romantic interest but is none the less more than one decade younger.

I watched the latest Jackie Chan movie "Bleeding Steel". I tend to like shitty action movies and this qualifies given its Tomato Rating. Jackie is basically retirement age. His number 2 was maybe mid-30s at most. Jackie's on-screen daughter is 17 years old and her counterpart (sort of) is a 38 year old pop star (and admittedly, the guy looks early 20s in the movie).

There are certainly exceptions where men could get by on their looks early on (DiCaprio, Depp, Pitt) but had to prove their acting talents later. And there are women whose talents got over the speed bump of not being good looking. There are also the exceptions of women who can still draw a crowd after 40.

Jennifer Lawrence is apparently the top-paid actress. She is 28. Do you think she can do this into her 50s?

“Did you have to suck a dick for your job? So why should I have to?”.

Because I am good at my job and you aren't and the only way you can get the job is to suck dick.

Michelle Williams

AFAIK, she won a Golden Globe but has a few Oscar Nominations for Best Supporting Actress and her most notable accomplishment was being knocked up by Heath Ledger before his untimely demise. Marky Mark is a decade older than her and had a succesful recording career before moving to film. I am not sure what the time frame of your reference is, but putting them in the same room a dozen years ago for a re-shoot would have different economic implications.

Million-Suns · 2018-04-27T05:00:31+00:00

I can't agree with you OP.

Some of these women went alone in hotel room meetings with Hollywood executives. Not accompagnied by their agents or any other form of security, and moreover they certainly knew it was not to play scrabble. Removing all blame from the women and shifting all to the men is disingenuous and contributes to infantilize said women.

When you analyze the situation, the MeToo accusers were all women whose career stagnated or was on the decline. Basically they did hit a wall and could no longer benefit from sleep promotion and compete with younger actresses. That's only when the movement arose.

So whatever problem there was it only became relevant years later. Establishing evidence of non consensual sexual intercourse after all these years has also conveniently become difficult, next to impossible to do, favoring the MeToo Witch Hunt. It is then a "she says vs he says", and within current context, the man is always guilty even after proven innocent.

It's too easy to bypass due process and appeal to internet mob justice. Too convenient to go to the media instead of going to the police.

So I can't even agree about the claim that it is a worker's right issue, when said right is infringed by the victim itself, bolstered by feminists like Emily Lindin telling that if innocent men's life has to be ruined in the process, then so be it. https://twitter.com/EmilyLindin/status/933074980627030016

AnteesAntaas · 2018-04-27T12:14:29+00:00

The majority of #metoo posts are from women who have nothing to do with the workplace, just some girls being trendy and attention seeking.

AutoModerator · 2018-04-27T02:30:06+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "CMV" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

jerryskids_ · 2018-04-27T15:43:24+00:00

'Men will try to get away with as much as possible'

What, all men? Sexist much?

Have men hurt you in the past or something?

Taipanshimshon · 2018-04-27T19:22:11+00:00

It does not. I have no idea why, but men seem to see this situation as a workplace advantage women have rather than clear sexual exploitation.

there are two ways to get ahead at work. If your boss is a man who likes women, you have one extra advantage .

then you have the advantage of regretting it later and playing victim.

complete BS

All those actresses that cry 10-20 years later after sucking off Hollywood guys?

How about they give back the money they earned from that. They werent victims. They were not kidnapped and held at gunpoint.

In fact its BS and insulting to actual victims of actual crimes.

“Did you have to suck a dick for your job? So why should I have to?”.

"because you suck at it and have no skills that allowed you to get in otherwise"

have a nice day

AstuteBlackMan · 2018-04-28T04:18:50+00:00

Mark and Michelle Williams are two different levels of actors.

I'm think it's important to recognize that women care more about making an income than they do about protecting other women. That's where women are to blame.

As far as the other stuff I'm not clear on what your point is. I don't understand the term buyers remorse.

newName543456 · 2018-04-27T06:38:01+00:00

What about those accused for interactions outside of work environment?

For example, we have minimum wage laws that prevent companies from paying people below a reasonable wage. If left to their own devices, many companies would pay people pennies. Likewise, those who were desperate enough for opportunity would agree to those meager wages, thus emboldening companies to further exploit people for their own profitability. In addition, there is a culture of silence and fear encouraged in most workplaces around disclosing wages and salaries to maintain bargaining power. Some companies will even fire you for discussing your pay with coworkers.

Actually, minimum wage laws were intended as eugenics plot to drive out "infirm" (including minorities) out of job market.

#MeToo is a Workers’ Rights issue and NOT “Buyers Remorse”

Comments

Brendan Fraser Says HFPA Ex-President Sexually Assaulted Him

Title	#MeToo is a Workers’ Rights issue and NOT “Buyers Remorse”
Author	Jammerly1
Upvotes	15
Comments	340
Date	April 27, 2018 2:30 AM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/8f8b3a/metoo_is_a_workers_rights_issue_and_not_buyers/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/metoo-is-a-workers-rights-issue-and-not-buyers.262728 https://theredarchive.com/post/262728