Denmark's 29,000 Doctors Declare Circumcision of Healthy Boys an "Ethically Unacceptable" Procedure Offering no Meaningful Health Benefits

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Good for you, dude. A hardline stance is the only one that works in the face of familial pressure.

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I don't understand why it's such a big deal...

Sure 😉 Thanks Daddy! "LOL":

Male circumcision causes terrible damage to the male penis, and psychological problems that can last a lifetime. It's no surprise circumcision for purely "medical" reasons in confined to the USA and a few other countries.

In western Europe there is now a growing movement to outlaw it as genital mutilation, on a par with FGM.

Note: The vast majority of these links from reputable scientific journals, with peer-reviewed research.

1: Women prefer intact penises. And elsewhere you can find men do as well!

Source: http://www.healthcentral.com/drdean/408/60750.html

http://www.cirp.org/library/anatomy/ohara/

2: Masturbation feels better.

Source: http://www.cirp.org/pages/anat/

3: Circumcision significantly reduces sensitivity.

Source: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1464-410X.2006.06685.x/epdf

http://www.livescience.com/1624-study-circumcision-removes-sensitive-parts.html

4: Despite the reduced sensitivity, there is no change to lasting longer during sex.

Source: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1743-6109.2005.00070.x/abstract;jsessionid=E233A9E106A9 A6D724B4E3606446784E.d03t01

5: Cut men have a more difficult time fapping.

Source: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1743-6109.2005.00070.x/abstract;jsessionid=E233A9E106A9

Which was the reason it was promoted in the USA in the first place.

http://english.pravda.ru/science/health/27-03-2006/77873-circumcision-0/

6: Circumcision increases risk of erectile dysfunctions.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=14979200&dopt= Abstract|

7: If too much skin is removed in circumcision, it can make the penis smaller since the dong needs some skin to expand during an erection:

http://www.altermd.com/Penis%20and%20Scrotal%20Surgery/buried_penis.htm

http://www.drgreene.com/azguide/inconspicuous-penis

8: Circumcision does not lower the risk of AIDS.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22096758/

9: Circumcision is more hygienic. Who the heck doesn't clean their penis? It's a three second job you do when you shower so this is not a valid argument. Women produce 10 times as much smegma as men - so it's OK to amputate an infant girls' labia lips so she doesn't have to wash them??

10: Circumcised foreskin sold to cosmetic manufacturers for profit:

http://voices.yahoo.com/human-foreskins-big-business-cosmetics-201840.html

11: Erectile dysfunction 4.5 times more likely to occur if you're circumcised

http://www.thewholenetwork.org/14/post/2011/08/does-circumcision-cause-erectile-dysfunction.html etc

12: Stanford's school of medicine list of circumcision complications (including infection, haemorraging, skin-bridging, phimosis, amputation and death):

http://newborns.stanford.edu/CircComplications.html

13: Cut infants get long-term changes in pain response from the trauma of being circumcised

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9057731

14: Circumcision decreases penile sensitivity

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23374102?dopt=Abstract

15: Circumcision associated with sexual difficulties

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21672947

16: Circumcision linked to alexithymia

http://www.mensstudies.com/content/2772r13175400432/?p=a7068101fbdd48819f10dd04dc1e19fb&pi=4

17: The exaggeration of the benefits of circumcision in regards to HIV/AIDS transmission

http://jme.bmj.com/content/36/12/798.abstract

18: Circumcision/HIV claims are based on insufficient evidence

http://www.4eric.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/MC.pdf

19: There is no case for the widespread implementation of circumcision as a preventative measure to stop transmission of AIDS/HIV

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1753-6405.2011.00761.x/full

20: Circumcision decreases sexual pleasure

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17155977

21: Circumcision decreases efficiency of nerve response in the glans of the penis

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17378847

22: Circumcision policy is influenced by psychosocial factors rather than alleged health benefits

http://www.circumcision.org/policy.htm

23: Circumcision linked to pain, trauma, and psychosexual sequelae

http://www.cirp.org/library/psych/boyle6/

24: Circumcision results in significant loss of erogenous tissue

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8800902

25: Circumcision has negligible benefit

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9091693

26: Neonatal circumcision linked to pain and trauma

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9057731

27: Circumcision may lead to need for increased care and medical attention in the first 3 years of life

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9393302

28: Circumcision linked to psychological trauma

http://www.cirp.org/library/psych/goldman1/

29: Circumcision may lead to abnormal brain development and subsequent deviations in behaviour

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10657682

30: CONCLUSIONS: This study confirms the importance of the foreskin for penile sensitivity, overall sexual satisfaction, and penile functioning: Furthermore, this study shows that a higher percentage of circumcised men experience discomfort or pain and unusual sensations as compared with the uncircumcised population.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23374102?dopt=Abstract

31: CONCLUSIONS: Circumcision was associated with frequent orgasm difficulties in Danish men and with a range of frequent sexual difficulties in women, notably orgasm difficulties, dyspareunia and a sense of incomplete sexual needs fulfilment.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21672947

32: CONCLUSION: There was a decrease in masturbatory pleasure and sexual enjoyment after circumcision, indicating that adult circumcision adversely affects sexual function in many men, possibly because of complications of the surgery and a loss of nerve endings.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17155977

33: CONCLUSIONS: The glans of the circumcised penis is less sensitive to fine touch than the glans of the uncircumcised penis. The transitional region from the external to the internal prepuce is the most sensitive region of the uncircumcised penis and more sensitive than the most sensitive region of the circumcised penis. Circumcision ablates the most sensitive parts of the penis.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17378847

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Lmao. People have been doing this forever.

oh you mean I can buy slaves now! really?

You act like I'm completely sick because I like circumcision?

If I was to say I am for cutting a girl's anus to expand the opening at birth because I like anal sex, you would call me sick.

The glans ~~DOES~~ do get significantly bigger,

Uh citation needed? I can't imagine why that would be.

it's a perfectly reasonable preference

where is my pumpkin carving kit, I need to go tear some infant girls a new asshole so their future boyfriends will be able to have easier anal sex.

and yes there is a slight scar around the shaft which apparently disgusts you

uh, what disgusts me is not the scar, but that part of a infant male's penis can be cut off for no reason other than "I like it this way, and therefore I am assuming both he, and his future partner will ALSO like it."

but is perfectly fine to a large chunk of the human population

logical falacy, ad poplous. Look, what If I told you the majority of people in the world think that dinosaurs and humans lived together. If that was the case, they MUST be right (by your logic) and therefore we would need to completely throw out biology as a school subject.

and I frankly never really noticed mine.

might be because you were an infant when it got removed? Blind people don't remember what the color red looks like if they lost their vision when they were an infant. This doesn't mean red is a useless color. I'm seeing it right now/

So fuck off, honestly.

uh.. why?

Why do you think it is ok to cut off part of an infant child's genitals (and not be called a sex offender on the spot for suggesting it) Give me some reasons to justify the action?

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I personally prefer snipped not going to lie, I'm a straight guy.

ok? how does this relate to infants?

My only experience with dicks is my own and in the porn I watch.

ok, going well so far.

If you don't want to do it don't do it to your kid,

I dont want it to be LEGAL to do to any kids.

but I have none of those things

true, you are missing a part of your penis.

and my dick works and feels fine

and the blind man scoffed at the seeing one. Glasses? Why would you ever want to see?

Again I realise I can't speak for everyone, but may lead to abnormal brain development?

yes, removing body parts at a young age, can lead to resentment, linking violence with sex, or other neurological problems!

Your a baby lol I can't remember anything from before I was like 3.

what is "sub continuous" for 1000?

Millions upon millions of people have been ~~snipped~~ slaves with no issues.

Right, you filthy slaves. Take my stand power: logical fallacy: appeal to tradition

Like I get where your coming from, but shit it ain't that big of a deal, just don't do it for your kids if you don't want to.

ok. right. I won't do it to my son. I don't want to. But my daughter's muff is slightly too similar to a meat lover's subway sandwitch. How about we clean that up a bit with an edge grinder?

If you want what I just did to my daughter ban, fuck you. I have only experienced my circumcised wife's cunny, and watch strictly FGM porn.

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Literally thats the best way to fix it. Depending on how flexible it is, if you can get your two first fingers inside the foreskin (I found pulling it back over the head, then rolling it foreward again over my fingers the easiest way to do that) then just very gently pull them apart until it puts pressure on the skin. Dont really try to stretch it, just put it under pressure and hold there for a minuet or two, stop for a minuet and do it again for like 10 mins per day or so. If its sore/dry skin etc give it a day off. If you can get steroid cream from the doctors it can really help speed it up but is totally not nessecary. If you cant get your fingers inside the foreskin then just pinch the sides gently and pull apart to stretch it until you can.

There are some little gadets you can get for it from the doctors I think. Like a little water balloon looking thing you put over and inflate, but I didnt need it at all and went from fairly extreme phimosis to none at all.

[–]DuckHorseDuck1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Muesli_nom 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

it's a bigger deal for an adult man than it is for an infant.

While I get your position: How do you know that? There's evidence that amputations on newborns cause irreversible changes to the infant's brain because of the pain involved. At least as an adult, you can get anesthetics.

I don't want to make light of foreskin amputation as an adult (just thinking about having it done on myself wigs me out), but: Your condition probably wasn't diagnosable as an infant, or if it was, it wasn't discernible if you would need actual surgical help, or if alternative treatments would be able to solve the problem. Just having had it done as a preventative measure so you don't have to deal with it as an adult seems "greener on the other side" thinking to me.

Again: Foreskin removal sucks, regardless of age - I just don't think that even your case justifies having it done as a preventative measure. The only exception would be if it was medically indicated even as a baby boy, but as I said: From what I know, it's hard to judge if a phimosis below a certain age (5,6 years) needs surgical treatment or if it'll either auto-resolve or can be treated with non-invasive measures.

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Yeah its looks stupid, nothing sexier then watching an erection bursting out of its sheath swoon

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I applaud them. I was not circumcized and I spent the first 20 years of my life wondering why I was different than all the other guys and why my parents never had this done to me. I knew as a child I was dif we had large communal bathrooms in elementary school so just glancing you notice if you are uncircumcized espescially if the rest are.. I thought there was something wrong with me and because of porn I thought no woman would be into me. I really got messed up in a way beacause my parents never talked to me about it but I am happy now. Thanks to posts like this that make me happy that I never went and had the painful precedure done at a later age just to fit in. I now realize I have so much sensation I would have never had a chance of feeling sex as wonderful and so intense I dont know really how to talk about this it is hard to describe, but honestly I thought I was messed up for not being cut and now I see my parents done me the most wonderful favor by leaving me the way I was meant to be.

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Ah so that's what I'm missing. My whole "setup" is still incredibly sensitive. It may be different for others, I can only vouch for my own experience. It's sensitive enough that going off early is an issue if we're not often having sex.

I remember reading something about circumcision. Thousands of years ago hygiene just isn't what it is now, and men were dying of complications resulting from infections in the foreskin. The survivors were useless in battle. The priests were under orders from God to circumcise in order to prevent the infections.

I don't know how much of that I remember correctly, or how true it all is, but it's an interesting thought.

Reminds me of a lady who would always cut the end off of the Thanksgiving turkey. The husband asked why she did it. "I don't know," she answered, "my mom always did it." So she called up her mother to ask why they had that tradition. "I don't know why," answered the mom. "Grandma always did it that way." After calling up Grandma, they find out that back in the day, Grandma's oven was too small for an entire turkey and so she cut the rest off to be cooked on a different day.

I'm guessing that's why we still circumcise, because it's always been done for a now obsolete reason.

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I'll wade into this (as a woman who normally avoids this sub). I saw this on /all and I just wanted to let you guys know that increasingly women (and their partners) are choosing to not circumcise their infants on the basis of bodily autonomy. It's absolutely not different and it is a big deal for a lot of young mothers and fathers, so I hope you can take some solace in that. (For whatever that's worth.)

[–]Machnow 46 points47 points48 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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It's absolutely not different and it is a big deal for a lot of young mothers and fathers, so I hope you can take some solace in that.

I do, actually. As u/Machnow points out: We can't even trust our politicians to give everyone equal protection of their human rights under the law, so the "social" option to make people aware of just what exactly they're doing when they have their baby boy "snipped" is the only way I see left for us.

I mean, I live in Germany - a country that has severe penalties for any form of genital harm when it's done to girls (including pricking the clitoris), threatens with jail if you dock your dog's ears or tail, and is in the process of making the neutering of piglets (it's done to prevent the meat from smelling funny) illegal. It's also the same country that made cutting off the most sensitive part of a boy's penis without medical indication explicitly legal.

So, if your own government is so morally bankrupt that it not only doesn't care about human rights violations when they're done to newborn baby boys, but actively condones them, your only hope remains that the people governed have more moral backbone than its supposed guides and leaders.

...Sorry for the rant, and thanks for the good news!

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I've generally heard 80% as good as the real thing from men cut as adults who have restored, with cut rated ≤30%. I suppose it would partly depend on how much inner foreskin you're left with, but regardless it's definitely way better than nothing.

[–]PowerToAnnihilate 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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I don't think so. And I'm a bioengineer (not to throw credentials around)

Foreskin restoration works with mitosis, brought about by stressing the cells into dividing. This is the same principle of people who have earrings stretching their ears out with gauges.

Since all of the ear is one layer of skin, instead of a bilayer, it is different.. So, are there any non-foreskin examples of people growing out other bilayers with mitosis?

There is one, it's called a lip plate and it seems that their lip is the exact same as every other lip. In other words, it just is the exact same.

Any "inner" foreskin (which is impossible to not have, even in the tightest cuts) can grow out to the full size, and if you start at the scar-line... Well its going to grow at exactly the same rate since you are stretching at the convergence point of the bi-layer.

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Woah, that's close to what my English teacher said.

Some context: We have to do speeches in class on a specific topic and I chose to do genital mutilation (both genders). In the speech, both were more or less equally represented, to avoid accusations of sexism and because they're both worth talking about. Throughout the whole thing, the teacher had one expression:

ಠ_ಠ

Afterwards she stated quite loudly to the class that she didn't think circumcision and genital mutilation were the same. And that there were health benefits and stuff. I didn't really want to argue with her (there were other people waiting to do their speeches).

Side note: this teacher also believes in the wage gap and that women don't get promoted as much as men do. The wage gap's easy to debunk, but what about the promotion thing? I haven't really seen anything about that here.

[–]derpylord143 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Muesli_nom 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

They aren't the same.

Depends on which perspective you have. Do the exact same parts of the body get removed? No, that's not possible, since the genitals are what differentiates men and women on a fundamental level. You can try and draw equivalencies as to how much sensation is removed, but again: that's really hard to compare since the base "structures" affected are not really comparable.

On a purely physical level, they are not the same.

On the meta level of human rights, however, they are: Every human has the right to an unharmed, unaltered body ("bodily integrity"); This right is harmed with genital mutilation for girls and women just as much as it is for boys and men: The violation of that right is the same.

In a way, different forms of FGM are less the same than FGM and MGM: The 'clitoral prick' does not cause lasting damage, while the removal of the clitoris does, immensely so - as does the removal of the foreskin in MGM. Now, even that clitoral prick is illegal as it's subsumed under "FGM", while removal of the foreskin isn't, even though it is by metrics of permanent damage and pain vastly more damaging than that. That tells me that "how comparable are they, damage-wise" wasn't even a consideration when it came to the illegality and condemnation of any form of FGM. So why does the issue suddenly crop up when it comes to MGM?

[–]Foregen_Is_Life 14 points15 points16 points 9 years ago* (10 children) | Copy Link

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Sorry I was rude and brash in my post. This topic really fires me up. A lot of what I've heard is anecdotal, to be honest, but I have a few pages bookmarked:

I can't prove beyond a doubt that, on a global scale, male circumcision causes just as many or more deaths and horrific injuries as female circumcision. However, the two procedures are absolutely comparable to one another, and their similarities outnumber their differences.

[–]FolkmasterFlex 10 points11 points12 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Mens-Advocate 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

"The study, by researcher Dan Bollinger, concluded that approximately 117 neonatal deaths due directly or indirectly to circumcision occur annually in the United States."

But the links to the original "study" do not work, leaving unexplained the "indirectly" portion.

Here seems to be (the same or different?) Bollinger study: https://www.academia.edu/6394940/Lost_Boys_An_Estimate_of_U.S._Circumcision-Related_Infant_Deaths

He makes a whopper of an assumption:

Males have a 40.4% higher death rate than females from causes that are associated with male circumcision complications, such as infection and hemorrhage,

Notice he does not say complications resulting from circumcision but solely "associated". He seems to have assumed any infection or hemorrhage in neonatal males beyond the female rate must be due to circumcision!

So, the 117 is not particularly reliable - and 117 is not "hundreds".

I have elsewhere suggested that the best intactivist strategy is not the ongoing (and likely eternal) failure to obtain outright legal bans; the best strategy is the much easier legislation of botched circumcision registry for a definitive answer to numerical incidence. Whether that number turns out 5 or 117, it would then be an excellent argument to convince parents to voluntarily forego the procedure.

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It's a thing of perspective. You are informed about the sad reality of MGM and what it entails, thus calling it "torture" seems appropriate.

But there's a huge knowledge differential from you to the uninitiated. For most of them, MGM isn't bad at all. It's neutral, or even good. They have no headspace yet to even consider that it might be not what they think. Try to think of something you regard as something good, and now imagine someone calling it the vilest practice ever invented. Chances are, you won't take them seriously - because "what you think" versus "what they say" is just so different that it seems insane to even consider their point of view.

Plus: Every one of your descriptions has a connotation of premeditated, intentional malice, and that's a whole new differential in itself. Nobody wants to think of doctors or their own parents as causing them harm - much less causing them harm intentionally and profiting from it.

I mean, I personally make no effort to obfuscate the truth of the procedure - I call it mutilation, because that's exactly what it is. But I do refrain from words that imply a motivation that I don't see - like "rape" or "torture".

[–]_GlitchMaster_ 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

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[+]another-white-male points 9 years ago [recovered] (41 children) | Copy Link

and jewish manipulation

[–]TheSummerain -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (24 children) | Copy Link

[–]redwinemamatreefrog 7 points8 points9 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Why are you going along with it just like that? You say it will be done because of your wife's religion but have you presented her with research or tried to talk her out of it? It sounds like you want them to have it done as well.

When I was pregnant before we even knew the sex of the baby my boyfriend said he would want his son circumcised so it would look the same as his. I told him that was absolutely not going to happen, I would leave him and he wouldn't be welcome at the birth if he tried to put his foot down about it. He tried to argue with me and talk me into it repeating all those bogus de-bunked claims. I printed out study after study proving the health reasons false. I read to him out loud the sexual function of the foreskin rather than changing my mind I changed his, he said he wished he had his foreskin back! I would never let anyone mutilate my child's genitals. If they want to do it as an adult electively I would want to be sure they knew all the facts first but it would be their choice. All I'm saying is if you are against it, fight it, some one would have to take me out first to preform a circumcision on a child of mine.

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https://www.littleimages.org/circumcision-is-unchristian/

"Behold, I, Paul, tell you that if you be circumcised, Christ will be of no advantage to you." – Gal 5:2

"And even those who advocate circumcision don’t really keep the whole law. They only want you to be circumcised so they can brag about it and claim you as their disciples." – Gal 6:13

"For there are many who rebel against right teaching; they engage in useless talk and deceive people. This is especially true of those who insist on circumcision for salvation. They must be silenced. By their wrong teaching, they have already turned whole families away from the truth. Such teachers only want your money" – Titus 1:10-11

"Watch out for those wicked men – dangerous dogs, I call them – who say you must be circumcised. Beware of the evil doers. Beware of the mutilation. For it isn’t the cutting of our bodies that makes us children of God; it is worshiping him with our spirits." – Phil 3:2-3

"And I testify again to every male who receives circumcision, that he is in debt to keep the whole Law. You who do so have been severed from Christ...you have fallen from grace." - Gal 5:3

"As God has called each man, in this manner let him walk. And thus I command in all the churches. Was any man called in the circumcision [Old Covenant]? Let him not try to become uncircumcised. Has anyone been called in the uncircumcision [New Covenant in Christ]? Let him not be circumcised! Circumcision is nothing. And uncircumcision is nothing but the keeping of the commandments of God. Let each man remain in that condition in which he was called." - 1 Cor. 7:17

"And some men came and were teaching the brethren, 'Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.' But Paul and Barnabas together had great dissension and disputing with these men. . . Then Peter stood up and said to them '...Why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?" - Acts 15:1-2, 7, 10

"But if I still proclaim circumcision. . . then the stumbling block of the cross has been abolished." - Gal 5:11

"I wish that those who are pushing you to do so would mutilate themselves!" - Gal 5:12

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[+]Itsthepizzafairy points 9 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

That's what anti vaccination people think, too

[–]charlietoday 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]CaptaincavemanJay points 9 years ago [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

Whats needed is a few high profile cases in the US of Children suing in later life. Glad im still intact.

[+]DuckHorseDuck points 9 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

List of Court Settlements and Legal Victories Proving Harm of Circumcision from Attorneys for the Rights of the Child.

Someone born after 1996 (the banning of FGM in the US) should sue on equal protection grounds.

[–]CaptaincavemanJay2 points 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]stopcuttingbabies 8 points9 points10 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

In male human anatomy, the foreskin is the double-layered fold of smooth muscle tissue, blood vessels, neurons, skin, and mucous membrane part of the penis that covers and protects the glans penis and the urinary meatus. It is also described as the prepuce, a technically broader term that also includes the clitoral hood in women, to which the foreskin is embryonically homologous. The highly innervated mucocutaneous zone of the penis occurs near the tip of the foreskin. The foreskin is mobile, fairly stretchable, and acts as a natural lubricant.

The foreskin of adults is typically retractable over the glans. Coverage of the glans in a flaccid and erect state varies depending on foreskin length. The foreskin is attached to the glans at birth and is generally not retractable in infancy.[1] The age at which a boy can retract his foreskin varies, but research found that 95% of males were able to fully retract their foreskin by adulthood.[2] Inability to retract the foreskin in childhood should not be considered a problem unless there are other symptoms.[3]

The World Health Organization debates the precise functions of the foreskin, which may include "keeping the glans moist, protecting the developing penis in utero, or enhancing sexual pleasure due to the presence of nerve receptors".[4]

The Nordic Association of Clinical Sexology (2013) states the foreskin has numerous important protective functions including protecting the penile glans from trauma.[25] Gairdner (1949) states that the foreskin protects the glans.[13] The foreskin can protect the glans from ammonia and feces for infants in diapers, and protect the glans from abrasions and trauma throughout life.[24]

The foreskin is specialised tissue that is packed with nerves and contains stretch receptors.[6][26][27] Sorrells et al. (2007) reported the areas of the penis most sensitive to fine touch are on the foreskin.[28]

The foreskin enables the penis to slip in and out of the vagina non-abrasively inside its own sheath of self lubricating, movable skin.[29]

Taylor et al. (1996) described the foreskin in detail, documenting a ridged band of mucosal tissue. They stated: "This ridged band contains more Meissner's corpuscles than does the smooth mucosa and exhibits features of specialized sensory mucosa."[6] In 1999, Cold and Taylor stated: "The prepuce is primary, erogenous tissue necessary for normal sexual function."[26] Boyle et al. (2002) state that "the complex innervation of the foreskin and frenulum has been well documented, and the genitally intact male has thousands of fine touch receptors and other highly erogenous nerve endings."[30] The American Academy of Pediatrics noted that the work of Taylor et al. (1996) "suggests that there may be a concentration of specialized sensory cells in specific ridged areas of the foreskin."[31]

The term 'gliding action' is used to describe the way the foreskin moves during sexual intercourse. This mechanism was described by Lakshamanan & Prakash (1980), stating that "[t]he outer layer of the prepuce in common with the skin of the shaft of the penis glides freely in a to and fro fashion..."[35] Several people have argued that the gliding movement of the foreskin is important during sexual intercourse. Warren & Bigelow (1994) state that gliding action would help to reduce the effects of vaginal dryness and that restoration of the gliding action is an important advantage of foreskin restoration.[36] O'Hara (2002) describes the gliding action, stating that it reduces friction during sexual intercourse, and suggesting that it adds "immeasurably to the comfort and pleasure of both parties".[37] Taylor (2000) suggests that the gliding action, where it occurs, may stimulate the nerves of the ridged band,[38] and speculates (2003) that the stretching of the frenulum by the rearward gliding action during penetration triggers ejaculation.[39] It is argued that removal of the foreskin results in a thickening of the glans because of chafing and abrasion from clothing, leading to loss of sensation. Removal of the foreskin can lead to trauma of the penis (friction irritation) during masturbation due to the loss of the gliding action of the foreskin and greater friction, requiring artificial lubrication. During sex, the loss of gliding action is also thought to cause pain, dryness and trauma of the vagina.[36] The trauma and abrasions of the vagina can lead to easier entry of sexually transmitted diseases.[27] One study showed that the loss of the foreskin resulted in decreased masturbatory pleasure and sexual enjoyment.[40] The gliding action of the foreskin is an aid to masturbation. The Nordic Association of Clinical Sexology states that the foreskin has numerous sexual functions and that "during sexual activity the foreskin is a functional and highly sensitive, erogenous structure, capable of providing pleasure to its owner and his potential partners."[25] The Royal Dutch Medical Association (2010) states that many sexologists view the foreskin as "a complex, erotogenic structure that plays an important role 'in the mechanical function of the penis during sexual acts, such as penetrative intercourse and masturbation'."[41]

GEEEEE SIGN ME UP!

[–]MRA-automatron-2kb 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]lyraseven points 9 years ago* [recovered] (29 children) | Copy Link

Let's not forget that even if it prevented cancer, it'd be for the child to give informed consent as an adult. Whether or not there are medical benefits is a distraction.

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[+]Talindras points 9 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

That's not an apples to apples comparison. Vaccinations are a public health issue. People without vaccincations threaten the entire community and have massive, provable beneficial applications that in the majority of cases leave the vaccinated person FAR better off than without. Circumcision does not.

[–]lyraseven 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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When you're old and bedridden in long-term care or other situation's where catheterization or 3rd party hygiene is required you can enjoy the excruciating pain when a nurse or psw forgets to retract your foreskin or simply increased rates of infection from shitty cleaning.

When you're old and your dick starts to shrivel leaving just sacs of wrinkly skin enjoy your last years spending 5 extra mins everytime you piss digging around flaps of penis flesh to clean your stanky dick.

[–]jmg83 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[+]roleplaydaddy points 9 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

This absolutely happens. Source, I'm a fucking nurse who has to care for elderly men who would experience much less pain discomfort and mess from having a cut dick.

The first search on google can confirm. http://www.menshealth.com/health/your-penis-when-you-age

[–]jmg83 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]laurairie 7 points8 points9 points 9 years ago (39 children) | Copy Link

[–]I_cry_very_often 14 points15 points16 points 9 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link

From a perspective of appearence it looks absolutely disgusting to me compared to a normal body, I feel repulsive. difference (NSFW)

I have a constant reminder of this everytime I go to the bathroom, change clothes, mastrubate... I have a circumcision scar which all circumcised people have and also small bits of flesh that haven't been cut just around the scar. Yes I have literally remains of my foreskin that haven't been cut close enough on my genitals and it's not a botched circumcision, it's just small bits that were left but that don't have any effect other than making me feel disgusting to potential partners I gave up on having.

I mentionned masturbation let's go at that one a bit more, circumcised men have less sensation which I don't know how much less because I was cut at 1, but it makes me sick to think that what I feel is less than what I was supposed to. It also worries me that it's very likely to worsen with time as keratinization will keep thickening the glans surface making it always less sensitive.

And masturbation when you're less sensitive leads to you having to masturbate more strongly to feel the same level of sensation and I have the misfortune of having a skin of bad quality already, those 2 factors combined make it difficult for me to masturbate without ending up with blood on my hands. The skin that gets ripped off from this is ripped off only in the area where there's normally a foreskin covering it and only when I do it strongly enough to feel anything. In other words circumcision has lead me to painful masturbation yay. Many circumcised men need lube to masturbate because the foreskin function of lubrication is lost and because you have less sensation so you go stronger while you do it but in some cases like mine that's blood you end up with.

Might be tmi but hey you asked.

It's frustrating and it makes me sick, when I mentionned all these things to my psychiatrist (which I went to for other reasons) she basically brushed it off as conspiracy theories. When I said many articles/studies/testimonies support it she said I was obsessing over nothing. Of course I'm obsessing over it it's my goddamn intimacy that's complete shit because of this operation.

EDIT: about sensitivity, when I read that being uncircumcised and having your glans out HURTS I can't imagine how much sensation they must have, my glans constantly touch my underwear and I don't feel anything, if the same things hurts them, how much did I lose ?

[+]DuckHorseDuck points 9 years ago [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

/r/foreskin_restoration

Beginner's Guide to Foreskin Restoration (NSFW)

Painful tightness should clear up pretty quickly. Longer term, you can get back the function of lubrication, sensitivity of the glans, and even make the scar fade away.

[–]I_cry_very_often 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]DuckHorseDuck3 points 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]LibertyIsNotFree -4 points-3 points-2 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]I_cry_very_often 6 points7 points8 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Atheist101 7 points8 points9 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]anonymous3182 13 points14 points15 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]contractor808 8 points9 points10 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Atheist101 25 points26 points27 points 9 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]laurairie 14 points15 points16 points 9 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Muesli_nom 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

The following is pretty plain talk about the realities of sex, and as such is NSFW. Just as a heads-up.

It's not only about men, either. Having a skin "tube" that allows the man's penis to act like a piston inside it also affects his partners. For example, in vaginal sex, there's usually no need for artificial lubrication since the foreskin acts as a seal that keeps the fluids inside. Circumcised penises, on the other hand, have an uncovered glans that, due to its shape, tends to scrape those fluids out with every pull. The foreskin also acts as buffer between the penile "piston" and the vaginal walls, which means that the whole experience is softer (can be both pro or a con, depending on the tastes of the individual), but often also more intense ("ribbed for her pleasure" is an attempt to copy the feeling of a intact penis).

Those mechanisms also translate to anal sex (if you want to know) in that intact penises make for a smoother penetration and action.

Another thing that often affects penetrative sex is that circumcised penises are less sensitive; They require more action to get pleasurable feelings. As such, penetrative sex is often more forceful and rough, and since they (see above) don't play well with lubrication, this can have an impact on the woman's pleasure (more friction and less gliding agent means that the vaginal walls are more easily irritated).

[+]Talindras points 9 years ago [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link

Interesting bit is, I'll never truly know what it's like to have my dick intact because someone took half of it before I was more than a few days old. I have absolutely no idea how it affected my life. For all I know, great as sex is, it might've been 10000% better. I've no way to compare it. I do think there's almost no chance that it's improved for lack of foreskin.

[+]DuckHorseDuck points 9 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

/r/foreskin_restoration can give you a pretty good idea of what it's like to have your dick intact. I wouldn't say 10000% better, but it's definitely a lot better and still improving for me.

[–]sneakpeekbot 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]TheSilentFire 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]CaptaincavemanJay points 9 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

I always wondered about Americans fascination with lube for masturbation, never linked it to the high circumcision rates, makes sense now.

[–]Atheist101 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]DuckHorseDuck1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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honestly? it hasn't affected my life in any problematic way that I can think of. I use lube to wank, so I suppose that's one way. It's been a non-issue for me. that being said, I likely won't circumcise my future children, mostly because there isn't a real reason to do so outside of wanting his dick to look like mine.

it makes me nervous that I won't have the knowledge or experience to help guide him through his dick career due to being cut vs uncut, but that nervousness isn't enough to warrant his circumcision.

it's a weird consideration really, because I don't personally feel that I have ever experienced any psychological or physical trauma due to being cut. it's never been a problem for me, though I totally understand that circumcision has no benefits medically speaking. it's conflicting emotionally but in the end I have to make my decisions not on my emotions but on the empirical evidence and scientific data.

[+]Matt111098 -7 points-6 points-5 points 9 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Atheist101 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

The loss of sensation is real though. Im uncut and heres a small example: If I masturbate too much in 1 day, say like 3 times in a day, my foreskin after a while stops fully covering the head and stays retracted so that the head is uncovered for a couple of hours after my last session. During that time, the head is in constant contact with my pants, underwear and leg so its always being rubbed on which after a while, it becomes annoying and kinda painful and then it becomes a struggle because I have to force the foreskin over the head so I dont have a constant erection. I honestly cannot fathom having the head in constant contact with my legs and underwear for the rest of my life, from what Ive felt so far from just a couple of hours, that would be insane and would start going into painful territory. Id assume after a while your dick would become numb to that sensation as its 24/7 and that wouldnt be a thing I want to go through

[–]mioelnir 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Atheist101 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]mioelnir 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm saying that during the first week I experienced sharp stingy pain from simply moving while clothed, yes. It builds up while you are resting and the cloth is not moving and gives you a jolt when you do. It is exactly as you described it for yourself, just all the time and as the new normal. I described it as a question-your-existence experience because as an otherwise healthy boy that never had a broken bone, I remember "Is this a cruel joke? Are they serious?" type questions. There is also an immense feeling of helplessness as there is nothing that can be done, it's just a "bite down and man up" situation.

And yes, after about a week the head starts to numb and at 3-4 weeks it is no longer unpleasant to be awake while wearing pants. And after a few months it feels like your underwear feels against your thigh.

[–]Matt111098 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[+]Itsthepizzafairy points 9 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

like defunded abortions?

[–]Manakel93[S] 6 points7 points8 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]jmg83 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]coug24suspence points 9 years ago* [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link

Do you truly feel this argument justifies anything?

[–]erconn -5 points-4 points-3 points 9 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[+]coug24suspence points 9 years ago* [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

You think the problem there is the human body in its natural state and not the bullying/cultural issues surrounding circumcision?

[–]erconn 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[+]coug24suspence points 9 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

Fair enough

[–]erconn 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]contractor808 29 points30 points31 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The Attorneys for the Rights of the Child wrote an extensive publication detailing the ethical and medical arguments around male genital cutting.

Of note:

pg 265" D. The "Cons": 1: Trauma and Pain

pg 266

Pediatric urologist David Gibbons comments on the large scale of the problem: [I]n a two year period, I was referred 275 new-borns and toddlers with complications of neonatal circumcision. None of these were “revisions” because of appearance, which I do not do. 45% required corrective surgery.... Complications of this unnecessary procedure are often not reported, but of 300 pediatric urologists in this country who have practices similar to mine...well, one can do the math, to understand the scope of this problem...let alone, to understand the adverse cost-benefit aspect of complications (>$750,000) in this unfortunate group of infants and young children.

[+]fuqworld points 9 years ago [recovered] (18 children) | Copy Link

I have complications because, I didn't receive circumcision. Now it is viewed as a cosmetic surgery, and I get to remember the pain, if I go through with it.

[–]anonymous3182 8 points9 points10 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[+]fuqworld points 9 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

I am now 32. Keep in mind I have looked. Nothing short of surgery, and spent time looking into insurances that can help me, but they ALL consider my condition cosmetic. I can have sex. I can piss. No infections EVER. Cosmetic.

[–]anonymous3182 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]PowerToAnnihilate 6 points7 points8 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[+]fuqworld points 9 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

You are talking about someones condition, without fully knowing if it can be fixed.

Creams never helped enough. not sure about a dorsal slit, but all surgeries were considered cosmetic. I have looked extensively and been to a few doctors about my problem, in the end the insurance wont cover it, and the cost is to prohibitive out of pocket.

Keep in mind, this is very stressful for me. Its fucking bullshit. But it does not help to have a bunch of fucking know it alls telling me "BUT YOU CAN FIX IT". My problem, just sharing why i am on the side of circumcision, and I have a fucking good reason for it.

[–]PowerToAnnihilate 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You are talking about someones condition, without fully knowing if it can be fixed.

how do you know that it can't without a full cut?

Creams never helped enough. not sure about a dorsal slit, but all surgeries were considered cosmetic. I have looked extensively and been to a few doctors about my problem, in the end the insurance wont cover it, and the cost is to prohibitive out of pocket.

well then look at manual stretching, hell if I had my intact body, I would do everything I could to keep it that way.

Keep in mind, this is very stressful for me. Its fucking bullshit.

It's bullshit you got to keep your full body. Wow. fuck you

But it does not help to have a bunch of fucking know it alls telling me "BUT YOU CAN FIX IT".

I am a bioengineer, I am restoring my foreskin, AND I have done extensive research on this topic. I do know a lot about it.

My problem, just sharing why i am on the side of circumcision, and I have a fucking good reason for it.

no you don't. You are for circumcision of minors because yours is a little tight. Fuck you.

[–]heimdahl81 20 points21 points22 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[+]fuqworld points 9 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

Yours can. Mine Cant.

You dont know the full extent of my situation. So fuck you.

[–]heimdahl81 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]jmg83 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[+]fuqworld points 9 years ago [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

See, I like you. Much better than everyone telling me my own personal problem can be fixed, but someone that came down with real information, and reminded me, its rare, it sucks, but think of everyone else.

Until this:

I've had complications because of circumcision. I'd rather be in your position than mine.

You have no idea. Just like I have no idea. Never wish to be in shoes, when you just see the shoes.

[–]jmg83 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

You have no idea. Just like I have no idea. Never wish to be in shoes, when you dont see the shoes.

I meant in terms of the fact that my problem is the direct result of procedure that I didn't need. I've asked both my parents how this came to happen, and it's pretty stupid. When I told my father about the procedure I underwent to minimise some the damage, he didn't want to hear it, so he steered the subject towards some other medical issues I had about 20 years ago which have absolutely nothing to with what we were talking about.

I don't mean to trivialise your problem, I really don't, but what I was trying to say is that I hate knowing that my problem is someone's fault, the direct result of someone else's actions. Your complications, bad as they might be, are the result of bad luck. You mentioned the procedure will cost $$$$? Well, from what I've been told, it cost ££££ to do this to me, which, according to my father, is why 2/3 of my younger brothers get to walk around with their whole penises today. "I didn't have the bloody money" is how he put it, as though his plans had been thwarted by poverty.

[–]Atheist101 7 points8 points9 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[+]fuqworld points 9 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

solves almost every case of it

Really. I had no idea!!!! I have been dealing with this problem for over 20 years, and never been to a doctor, and never tried any of these creams!

[–]Atheist101 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]DuckHorseDuck points 9 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

Phimosis? No problem.

https://phimosisjourney.wordpress.com/

http://www.network54.com/Forum/244184

[–]fuqworld1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]kaninkanon 15 points16 points17 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]anonymous3182 7 points8 points9 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's because there is no medical benefit to the procedure (see below). And there is good evidence that it removes nerve endings, gliding action, and protection of the glans which many people think leads to desensitization.

When there is no medical benefit to the person, and the person receiving it can not give consent, the decision should be up to the person whether or not to do it to themselves.

If an adult wants to circumcise themselves, is their decision.

The Canadian Paediatrics Society position paper has the numbers listed here http://www.cps.ca/documents/position/circumcision. NNT is number needed to treat, so the number of circumcisions needed to prevent one occurrence of the item listed.

To make sure we're reading this the same way, "It has been estimated that 111 to 125 normal infant boys ... would need to be circumcised at birth to prevent one UTI."

Prevention of phimosis NNT = 67

Decrease in early UTI NNT = 111 – 125

Decrease in UTI in males with risk factors (anomaly or recurrent infection) NNT = 4 – 6

Decreased acquisition of HIV NNT = 298 (65 – 1231 depending on population)

Decreased acquisition of HSV (Herpes) NNT = 16

Decreased acquisition of HPV NNT = 5

Decreased penile cancer risk NNT = 900 – 322,000

Decreased cervical cancer risk in female partners NNT = 90 – 140

These are terrible numbers to medically justify routine circumcision on newborns. The medical benefit is so slim it's effectively zero for the person it's being done to.

Since male circumcision is removal of part of the foreskin for no medical reason, I conclude it is genital mutilation.

[+]DreamingIsFun points 9 years ago* [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

Thats because you dont know what its like not to be

[–]erconn -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]PowerToAnnihilate 8 points9 points10 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]smasters908 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]jmg83 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]Mens-Advocate -16 points-15 points-14 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[+]coug24suspence points 9 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

I would argue the kiddy diddlers are ill

[–]Mens-Advocate -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[+]lmygenocide points 9 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

I got circumsized when I was 10. I was born in the Philippines and moved to Cali around 6 years old. I dont know how to prove it but if anyone cares ill post the story.

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[–]PowerToAnnihilate 9 points10 points11 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]wolf123450 points 9 years ago [recovered] (8 children) | Copy Link

Wait, people actually care if their circumcised or not? What is this, ancient Israel?

[–]mikesteane 29 points30 points31 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 20 points21 points22 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]smasters908 6 points7 points8 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[+]wolf123450 points 9 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

I can understand the worry about possible surgical complications for what is essentially a cosmetic operation, but calling the foreskin a 'crucial part' of their genitals is a bit much and indeed is scientifically debatable. It doesn't affect sexual fertility in it's presence or absence, and data on whether sexual sensitivity changes is lacking.

Well what you call "American brainwashing" I call common fucking sense. I don't care whether somebody's circumcised or not. I'm gonna have my sons circumcised because it's the American thing to do, and there isn't enough evidence that it's detrimental at all. As to ethical matters, the only things against it are the risk factors of surgical complications, and the whole consent thing, which doesn't have any ground to stand on because parents choose what is best for their children. Boo hoo to you all who wanted not to be circumcised, because at least your parents cared enough to pay for something they thought was beneficial. A lot of kids have parents who are actually abusive, so maybe you should redirect your first world problem angst to those people who actually deserve it.

I'm circumcised, I was circumcised as a baby and I'm glad, because I sure wouldn't get an operation like that done now that I'm older.

[–]smasters908 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I'll just leave this here:

I don't understand why it's such a big deal...

Sure 😉 Thanks Daddy! "LOL":

Male circumcision causes terrible damage to the male penis, and psychological problems that can last a lifetime. It's no surprise circumcision for purely "medical" reasons in confined to the USA and a few other countries.

In western Europe there is now a growing movement to outlaw it as genital mutilation, on a par with FGM.

Note: The vast majority of these links from reputable scientific journals, with peer-reviewed research.

1: Women prefer intact penises. And elsewhere you can find men do as well!

Source: http://www.healthcentral.com/drdean/408/60750.html

http://www.cirp.org/library/anatomy/ohara/

2: Masturbation feels better.

Source: http://www.cirp.org/pages/anat/

3: Circumcision significantly reduces sensitivity.

Source: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1464-410X.2006.06685.x/epdf

http://www.livescience.com/1624-study-circumcision-removes-sensitive-parts.html

4: Despite the reduced sensitivity, there is no change to lasting longer during sex.

Source: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1743-6109.2005.00070.x/abstract;jsessionid=E233A9E106A9 A6D724B4E3606446784E.d03t01

5: Cut men have a more difficult time fapping.

Source: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1743-6109.2005.00070.x/abstract;jsessionid=E233A9E106A9

Which was the reason it was promoted in the USA in the first place.

http://english.pravda.ru/science/health/27-03-2006/77873-circumcision-0/

6: Circumcision increases risk of erectile dysfunctions.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=14979200&dopt= Abstract|

7: If too much skin is removed in circumcision, it can make the penis smaller since the dong needs some skin to expand during an erection:

http://www.altermd.com/Penis%20and%20Scrotal%20Surgery/buried_penis.htm

http://www.drgreene.com/azguide/inconspicuous-penis

8: Circumcision does not lower the risk of AIDS.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22096758/

9: Circumcision is more hygienic. Who the heck doesn't clean their penis? It's a three second job you do when you shower so this is not a valid argument. Women produce 10 times as much smegma as men - so it's OK to amputate an infant girls' labia lips so she doesn't have to wash them??

10: Circumcised foreskin sold to cosmetic manufacturers for profit:

http://voices.yahoo.com/human-foreskins-big-business-cosmetics-201840.html

11: Erectile dysfunction 4.5 times more likely to occur if you're circumcised

http://www.thewholenetwork.org/14/post/2011/08/does-circumcision-cause-erectile-dysfunction.html etc

12: Stanford's school of medicine list of circumcision complications (including infection, haemorraging, skin-bridging, phimosis, amputation and death):

http://newborns.stanford.edu/CircComplications.html

13: Cut infants get long-term changes in pain response from the trauma of being circumcised

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9057731

14: Circumcision decreases penile sensitivity

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23374102?dopt=Abstract

15: Circumcision associated with sexual difficulties

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21672947

16: Circumcision linked to alexithymia

http://www.mensstudies.com/content/2772r13175400432/?p=a7068101fbdd48819f10dd04dc1e19fb&pi=4

17: The exaggeration of the benefits of circumcision in regards to HIV/AIDS transmission

http://jme.bmj.com/content/36/12/798.abstract

18: Circumcision/HIV claims are based on insufficient evidence

http://www.4eric.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/MC.pdf

19: There is no case for the widespread implementation of circumcision as a preventative measure to stop transmission of AIDS/HIV

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1753-6405.2011.00761.x/full

20: Circumcision decreases sexual pleasure

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17155977

21: Circumcision decreases efficiency of nerve response in the glans of the penis

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17378847

22: Circumcision policy is influenced by psychosocial factors rather than alleged health benefits

http://www.circumcision.org/policy.htm

23: Circumcision linked to pain, trauma, and psychosexual sequelae

http://www.cirp.org/library/psych/boyle6/

24: Circumcision results in significant loss of erogenous tissue

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8800902

25: Circumcision has negligible benefit

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9091693

26: Neonatal circumcision linked to pain and trauma

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9057731

27: Circumcision may lead to need for increased care and medical attention in the first 3 years of life

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9393302

28: Circumcision linked to psychological trauma

http://www.cirp.org/library/psych/goldman1/

29: Circumcision may lead to abnormal brain development and subsequent deviations in behaviour

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10657682

30: CONCLUSIONS: This study confirms the importance of the foreskin for penile sensitivity, overall sexual satisfaction, and penile functioning: Furthermore, this study shows that a higher percentage of circumcised men experience discomfort or pain and unusual sensations as compared with the uncircumcised population.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23374102?dopt=Abstract

31: CONCLUSIONS: Circumcision was associated with frequent orgasm difficulties in Danish men and with a range of frequent sexual difficulties in women, notably orgasm difficulties, dyspareunia and a sense of incomplete sexual needs fulfilment.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21672947

32: CONCLUSION: There was a decrease in masturbatory pleasure and sexual enjoyment after circumcision, indicating that adult circumcision adversely affects sexual function in many men, possibly because of complications of the surgery and a loss of nerve endings.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17155977

33: CONCLUSIONS: The glans of the circumcised penis is less sensitive to fine touch than the glans of the uncircumcised penis. The transitional region from the external to the internal prepuce is the most sensitive region of the uncircumcised penis and more sensitive than the most sensitive region of the circumcised penis. Circumcision ablates the most sensitive parts of the penis.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17378847

So yeah, you're an idiot.

[+]wolf123450 points 9 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

Hey, thanks for the ad hominem attack at the end bro. Nice way to be a hypocrite.

Basically the cirp website you referenced is a biased repository of articles that are anti circumcision.

As to the rest, the aap agrees with me, and I'm sure they're a lot smarter than I am.

[–]smasters908 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]zangerinus 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]thrway_1000 -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]HgFrLr -7 points-6 points-5 points 9 years ago (22 children) | Copy Link

[–]contractor808 6 points7 points8 points 9 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]HgFrLr -3 points-2 points-1 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]DuckHorseDuck7 points 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]contractor808 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

Sure. I have outlined the points below. The TLDR is that genital cutting is not an effective medical intervention, causes lasting damage to the child, and violates the child's ability to choose whether to be cut or not. Anti-MGM is meant only for infants and children who cannot consent. Adults are free to choose genital cutting when they are of age to consent to an elective procedure that does not have medical benefits outside of specific medical interventions. Routine, cosmetic cutting of a baby's genitals is ineffective and unethical.

The Con's

Trauma and pain: genital cutting is not done under anesthesia. Exposure to painful stimuli can create changes in a child's brain development and stress response systems. It interferes with sleep cycles, feeding habits, maternal bonding, and pain sensitivity.
The foreskin is attached to the head of the penis and must be forcibly separated. The foreskin naturally does this around age ten without the need for causing pain or using tools.
Complications: early complications include chordee, misplacement of the urethral opening, necrosis of the glans, and amputation of the glans. Late complications include cysts, permanent suture marks, inadequate skin removal, penile adhesions (skin bridges), phimosis, buried penis (penis retracts into the body), urethrocutaneous fistulae, inflammation, and narrowed urethra. Genital cutting can also result in painful erections/intercourse as other commenters have noted for themselves.
Complications are not especially rare. 7.4% of visits to a pediatric urologist at Massachusetts General Hospital were due to genital cutting complications. Urologist David Gibbons reported that 275 newborns and toddlers were referred to him due to complications in a 2 year period. 45% required further surgery. He further stated

"Complications of this unnecessary procedure are often not reported, but of 300 pediatric urologists in this country who have practices similar to mine...well, one can do the math, to understand the scope of this problem...let alone, to understand the adverse cost-benefit aspect of complications (>$750,000) in this unfortunate group of infants and young children."

The most serious complication is, of course, death. With only 41% of deaths attributed to underlying disorders, the full scope of deaths related to complications of genital cutting (such as blood loss or fatal infection) cannot be known. Given that the risk is greater than zero, it is not worth undergoing genital cutting given there is not sufficient medical benefit to warrant such a risk.
The foreskin is not vestigial and serves a purpose. It protects the penis and keeps it from becoming dry. It reduces friction during sexual activity by a "gliding action" similar to how skin on the elbow glides over the arm. The foreskin is the most sensitive part of the penis, accounting for between 1/3 and 1/2 of the nerve-rich tissue of the penis.

The "Pro's"

Cleanliness: children should not clean under the foreskin until it separates from the penis on its own. Cleaning the foreskin only takes a few seconds and is a good habit just as brushing one's teeth or taking a shower. Removal of the foreskin is not a substitute for proper hygiene taught by responsible parents.
Urinary tract infections: removal of the foreskin is not an effective solution for preventing UTIs. Such illness can be treated with oral antibiotics, and over 100 infants would have to be cut to prevent a single case of UTI.
Penile Cancer: penile cancer is not reliably prevented by genital cutting. Between 909 and 322,000 infants would have to be cut to prevent a single case of penile cancer. The American Cancer Society requested the AAP stop promoting genital cutting as a preventative strategy.
HIV: studies conducted that claim genital cutting reduces the risk of HIV were not found credible. They were held in Africa, which does not accurately reflect the populations in countries such as the US. Further, various biases were found in the experiments including selection biases, randomization bias, experimenter bias, inadequate blinding, participant expectation bias, lack of placebo control, inadequate equipoise, excessive attrition of subjects, failure to investigate lead time bias, and time-out discrepancy. And most importantly, HIV infection is not a relevant threat to children and when they are adults safe sex practices and condom usage provide clear protection.

[–]HgFrLr 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]contractor808 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It would depend on the complication. In this particular case, the urologist did not attend to any "revisions" related to appearance. This means all cases were related to some kind of medical distress. It's also important to reiterate, of those referred, 122 were

serious enough to consider surgical intervention,
able to be corrected surgically, (not all complications can be surgically fixed as there are some instances of severe trauma)
and had the procedure completed. (there will be drop-off due to financing/insurance and medical risk of conducting the surgery on small children)

For further information there are two videos that also cover the topic:

SFU Advocacy for Men and Boys hosted doctor Christopher Guest for his presentation "A Medical Critique of Circumcision". It also includes an analysis of the history of male genital cutting and how it came to be common.
~45min presentation was held at the International Conference on Men's Issues last summer. It covered the Global Survey of Circumcision Harm. Of note are the parallels between cultural attitudes between MGM in the West and FGM in Africa/Middle East. Fair warning, there is NSFW content in some parts of the video.

[–]PowerToAnnihilate 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]HgFrLr -3 points-2 points-1 points 9 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]PowerToAnnihilate 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

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[–]HgFrLr 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]jmg83 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]HgFrLr 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]jmg83 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]HgFrLr1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[+]warcroft -12 points-11 points-10 points 9 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

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[–]warcroft-4 points 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]tothecatmobile3 points 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]tothecatmobile 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]PowerToAnnihilate 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Picture this scenario

ok.

Uncircumcised dude is out for a night of drinking

we are talking about INFANT MGM. To drink you need to be 21.

After a few drinks he goes and takes a piss. Another drink, another piss. Then another, then another.

Good lord, this is a niche situation.

With each drink he's getting more and more drunk

'Tis what the devil water does.

His penis control is getting sloppy. Missing the urinal. Dribbling on his shoes.

Pretty sure this happens, regardless of if your foreskin is intact or not...

Not shaking properly and getting piss patches in his underwear.

uh...

All the while building up a filthy, disgusting, sweaty, piss flavoured dick cheese under his foreskin.

do you even know what "dick cheese" is? Or how it forms, or like... anything about the topic you are talking about?

All it would take to fix this ENTIRE (retarded) situation, is a shower the next morning.

You know who suffers the most from this though?

the janitor who has to clean up the piss from the bathroom?

The girl he's been chatting up and dancing with the past couple of hours.

still think it's the poor janitor mate/

In the throws of drunken, car park passion

ohhh, you mean he feminist raped her?

she undoes his pants, pulls his dick out and sticks it in her mouth.

and he goes down on her, fishy, odious, intact female genitals.

Nice... uh... story? what was this?

[–]Consilio_et_Animis 9 points10 points11 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[+]warcroft -6 points-5 points-4 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]tothecatmobile 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Title	Denmark's 29,000 Doctors Declare Circumcision of Healthy Boys an "Ethically Unacceptable" Procedure Offering no Meaningful Health Benefits
Author	Manakel93
Upvotes	2719
Comments	515
Date	January 20, 2017 7:15 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/5p5ybi/denmarks_29000_doctors_declare_circumcision_of/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/denmarks-29000-doctors-declare-circumcision-of.933664 https://theredarchive.com/post/933664

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