Office sexism?

zyk0s · 2011-11-10T16:32:26+00:00

No. It's a good excuse for a guys night out.

therightclique · 2011-11-10T18:24:23+00:00

Just what the hell is a Kris Kringle?

hamish5178 · 2011-11-10T17:07:50+00:00

Corporate accounts payable, Nina speaking. Just a moment.

ew73 · 2011-11-10T19:42:42+00:00

In the US, this is bordering on gender discrimination. But not crossing into it.

Having an event during non-work hours with your coworkers (esp. if you're not getting paid) is perfectly legal. Going out for beer with the guys is fine, too.

Asking your coworkers, "Hey, want to go get a beer after work?" is fine too.

The two things that make this particular email questionable are:

The sender specifically excluded a group of people based on gender, though she did not say, "No penises allowed!" the bit about "I hope no one is offended that can't come" is sort of an admission that guys are not invited.
This was sent via company email on company time to other company systems. That the original signature for "Accounts Payable" is still there is sort of telling.

The context is important, here, though.

Are there frequent emails announcing a "girls night out" or a "guys night out" to a common set of emails?
Is there a public bulletin board where flyers and such can be put up?
Would it be feasible for her to craft individual emails to the people she wanted to invite to her private, after-work event?

I'd not get too upset about this particular case. If you're very concerned, or it seems that the event is an excuse to organize a "how we're going to get all the men fired" plan, etc., you might want to have a chat with HR. At least go on the record as being concerned.

Just remember, when speaking with HR, they are never on your side and exist to protect the company not individual employees.

Sarstan · 2011-11-10T19:46:00+00:00

Frankly there was no reason this email was sent to anyone but the parties that are attending. The fact that it was sent to everyone is of great concern. Especially when references "friendships" in an office setting.
On the other hand, it would severely backfire if you made a big deal out of this. If it is a concern, consider making a guys night out and only send to the guys you're inviting (as in not everyone). If anyone decries sexism, instead of showing them the other email, point out it was sent only to those invited and was a private event not to be a concern for the company.

netweavr · 2011-11-10T20:30:13+00:00

Could someone achieve career advancement, benefit, or compensation by attending this event?

werko · 2011-11-10T19:39:58+00:00

It is not sexist in a way that they prefer only female companies for one night to discuss whatever they have to discuss.

It is sexist that they had to go out of their ways to write an email and let you know you could not assist. Supposing you didn't want to go for whatever reason. The fact that you are getting rejected for having a penis even when you did not want to be involved is Sexist.

Il128 · 2011-11-10T20:14:47+00:00

Actually an email such as this in the workplace is highly inappropriate. Sex/gender doesn't matter. At no time should a work resource be used to exclude other employees from a work function based on race, sex, yada yadda yadda... EEOC frank.

Tralan · 2011-11-10T23:56:46+00:00

It should not have been sent to everyone. It should have honestly been planned in private among the women. Instead of making a big deal about it being a "Ladies night only, boys teehee!" it should have been a water cooler break discussion.

foresthill · 2011-11-10T16:50:20+00:00

I just feel that if we had a guys only company event there would be an uproar.

2011-11-11T01:16:46+00:00

At a previous place of employment, the ladies would get together for a drink or a girls night. You know why I didn't care? They didn't advertise to everyone and the company didn't pay for it.

This would piss me off. Who cares if you want to go out with just the girls? Do what every you want to do in your own time. The moment you talk about it like that at work, you piss me off.

leprasmurf · 2011-11-10T17:45:18+00:00

My opinion is that this would qualify as sexual discrimination. When I was working at a big bank, they had very strict rules about this sort of activity. For example, we couldn't go to a strip club as a group, even after hours, because it would exclude females from going....even if the females were ok with it, or even if they wanted to go too.

A lot of this depends on various attributes at the company. If the company is small and a tight knit group, with very little HR involvement, then it all depends on the whim of your CEO. If you're in a large company that tries to cover their own ass at every turn, then you might want to raise the issue (suppose CYOA companies are not necessarily always large, but you get the point).

In my current company, I could see it happening, but I also don't think there would be any issue if guys did the same. As for the people who say "2 wrongs don't make a right" I don't know if that applies, as this is just setting precedence for what people are comfortable with in the office.

xatmatwork · 2011-11-10T17:40:26+00:00

I'm all for men's rights but this is not sexism. If there would be an uproar if there was a men's only night then this would be a double standard, but it is not sexism in and of itself.

s73v3r · 2011-11-11T00:08:14+00:00

As long as no one gets pissed off when someone decides to do a guy's night out, I don't see a problem with it.

zbowling · 2011-11-10T21:07:37+00:00

From my experience, there is a very solid line delineating sexism.

Is the event funded with company funds?
Are any business transactions or decisions taking place at the event?
Does the event create an unreasonable disturbance to normal business areas?

If the answer to all of these are no, you are good to go. This is as relevant to Ladies' Night as it is to the golf course or the strip club.

pisanty · 2011-11-11T01:50:27+00:00

Sounds like a bunch of girls don't want to share the cake. Or Susan from account's is sick of all the women getting buzzed and fucking on her copy machine.

therealxris · 2011-11-10T19:47:02+00:00

This is so retarded that it hurts. Calling this kind of shit sexism and bitching about it is why everyone thinks this subreddit is such garbage.

InappropriatePenguin · 2011-11-10T23:48:12+00:00

Aw come on. Let's not become the male version of what we hate. There's nothing wrong with a ladies only event [ or a males only event for that matter].

puredoubt · 2011-11-10T20:32:56+00:00

i'm only offended by the hyphenated "no-one."

LAMFF · 2011-11-10T22:13:02+00:00

Just schedule a guys night and make a point to let them know they aren't invited. Then make big deal of how awesome it was even if it sucked. They'll be green with envy...or not. Who cares if you can't go on girls night; hire a hooker and fart in her face.

2011-11-10T19:52:55+00:00

yes. is this sent by a manager?

reply, CC: HR

Are any of the bar / restaurant employees allowed to me male, or does testosterone stink up the room?

brisingre · 2011-11-11T01:02:30+00:00

Yes. But this is petty. Chill out.

Offensive_Brute · 2011-11-10T20:54:30+00:00

If office guys didnt do the same on a regular basis, i'd say yes. but its entirely normal for office men to go out excluding female coworkers.

ThePigman · 2011-11-11T01:14:17+00:00

I assume the Kris in Kris Kringle is a Kristine.

Malkavon · 2011-11-11T06:39:32+00:00

The only thing I could hear when I read that was "Corporate accounts payable, Nina speaking; just a moment!", over and over.

JustPlainRude · 2011-11-11T09:24:50+00:00

I would delete this email after reading it, and never give it a second thought.

sigtrap · 2011-11-12T20:29:27+00:00

Nobody will probably see this, but I'll say it anyway. At first I was only a bit irritated by that email, but then after thinking about it, it really pissed me off. This is basically like mailing a second set of invitations to a party to the people you didn't invite, telling them that they are not invited. Who the fuck does that? Unless they're a giant douche bag trying to rub it in someone else's face. There was absolutely no reason to send that email out to all the guys. It's almost as if they were trying to start trouble.

junkeee999 · 2011-11-10T20:23:55+00:00

Sexism? Are you out of your mind?

Sorry to be harsh, but honestly, who would get butt hurt over an email like this?

SlimThugga · 2011-11-10T20:32:15+00:00

Analyzing solely what is written there, it's not sexism.

craigske · 2011-11-10T23:40:26+00:00

I love how everyone beats around the bush and throws up "on the face of it, it's not" arguments.

Bullshit. Fully acknowledged complete double standard.

Fantasysage · 2011-11-10T20:45:54+00:00

No. Office sexism is making me, the Sysop but one of the only men in operations lift shit all the time because I am a guy.

malachi23 · 2011-11-10T18:05:10+00:00

The only aspect of this that is sexist is that your coworker has been so overwhelmed with concerns of sexism that she felt forced to write this ridiculous email in the first place.

awh · 2011-11-10T21:55:54+00:00

If I had to guess, I'd say that you work in a pretty small company (or in a pretty small department) -- the recipient list on the email is no more than about 10-15 people, even if it's just showing first names. Small companies/departments like that tend to operate less formally than big ones.

I gotta say, I would find it pretty difficult to get mad over this type of event, particularly if it only happens once in a while. If you legitimately have your feelings hurt over it, maybe you need to grow a tougher skin and stop looking for discrimination in everything that you see.

ProWomanAntiFeminist · 2011-11-10T20:09:52+00:00

They're using company equipment (the computer and email system) to foster a gender-biased atmosphere.

I would sue.

DeathToUnicorns · 2011-11-11T00:22:56+00:00

This is why no one takes men rights serious.

RiffyDivine · 2011-11-10T20:46:35+00:00

Sexism, no not really. Bitch move, yes very much so.

TheoreticalFunk · 2011-11-10T22:00:19+00:00

If group A gets a budget, group B should be able to get a budget also.

karmasutur3 · 2011-11-10T20:53:54+00:00

Nope .

D_Livs · 2011-11-11T02:43:59+00:00

You guys get your panties in a bunch over the smallest things.

Title	Office sexism?
Author	foresthill
Upvotes	171
Comments	210
Date	November 10, 2011 4:10 PM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/m7ipa/office_sexism/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/office-sexism.1031884 https://theredarchive.com/post/1031884

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