What’s wrong with MGTOW?

63daddy · 2022-10-08T16:37:18+00:00

Men Going Their Own Way and not marrying is a rational response to marriage and divorce biases against men.

What you are perhaps missing is that society is hypergamous and gynocentric. Such men are shamed because precisely because they are avoiding the bias.

Feminists have spent a lot of time and effort maintaining biased marriage and divorce practices. MGTOWs simply circumvent these biases by refusing to play the game and so they are shamed.

demeszkiewicz · 2022-10-08T17:30:55+00:00

I spend a lot of time in feminist groups and I think I can pinpoint the reason.

They simply don't know the difference between different MRA subgroups. They used to associate all of them with sick individuals that actually had murderous tendencies. They strongly believe, even if a man doesn't want to commit genocide, he will want to do it if he stays in those groups.

It is exactly like, blaming video games for mass shooters. Information that one played GTA doesn't contain useful information without context like how many people who played GTA didn't commit any crime.

Another example. They claimed that 100% of sexual assault offenders are male. (Let's put asite a rigged definition.) It ideally matches with dogma in toxic masculinity, which is the belief that men are evil by nature. I have never seen any feminist that asked "how many men even commit sexual assault?". If I would be a woman, this question seems to be much more valuable. I would like to know what is the probability of being hurt when I meet a new man, to prepare preventive measures accordingly.

I feel like it becomes some kind of rant on my site, and I need to cut it. To sum up. Things are never so simple.

michaelklr · 2022-10-08T16:45:31+00:00

When a woman has had a life of entitlement and privilege, equality then feels like oppression.

chortle-guffaw · 2022-10-08T17:42:35+00:00

There's nothing wrong with MGTOW. However, people have a wide variety of ideas of what MGTOW means, even men who identify as MGTOW. Women too can't agree on a definition. Being for, against, or neutral on MGTOW depends on how it effects you personally.

Every definition of MGTOW limits how women can benefit from men in one way or another. Men who refuse all romance with women leave no options. Other MGTOW men will date women, but won't live with them, marry them, or have kids with them. Women can still benefit from a dating relationship, but this closes off marriage and kids, two things that are important to a lot of women. It also eliminates the divorce bonanza (alimony, assets and child support).

So, yeah, if you're a woman and your definition of "harmful" includes "limiting options to exploit a relationship," then it's true.

Longjumping_Joke_751 · 2022-10-08T17:58:52+00:00

It’s also hypocritical as these same women claim “they don’t need a man” and “men are trash” yet they shame or get upset at MGTOW.

Which translates to “I don’t want an average man w an average life, but a high value man that can provide all my needs.”

MammothAd1266 · 2022-10-08T16:37:16+00:00

because they're entitled hypocrites who are annoyed when any man does anything that isn' t about them.

A woman goes her own way She's a strong independent queen

A man goes his own way? He's a misogynistic pig

caem123 · 2022-10-08T19:53:50+00:00

When I suggest MGTOW is an option for my nephews or son, women seem to think it's crazy to not want a 'good woman in their life'. Yet, I always ask how will a woman make their life better?

leroy2007 · 2022-10-08T17:48:51+00:00

Feminists “Leave women alone” MGTOWs “Sure, no problem” Feminists “……assholes!”

Aimless-Nomad · 2022-10-08T16:56:18+00:00

Let the harpies scream lol. Who gives a shit about their opinion.

DavidByron2 · 2022-10-08T16:44:16+00:00

No, you got it.

Feminists hate men. MGTOW are men.

I doubt they hate them more than any other men btw. I doubt they hate the MGTOW politics. After all it's all to similar to a lot of the sex segregationism of feminism itself. It's a bit like the relationship between the Nazis and the Zionist movement. The Nazis were "We hate Jews. Jews need to go" and the Zionists were "Well we don't want to be here. We want Jews to go to Palestine (and fuck up the people living there currently)". So even though the Nazis hated and persecuted Jews in general they had a sort of soft spot for the Zionists, because they had that limited objective of segregation in common.

But of course MGTOW segregationism is pragmatic and voluntary (at least from what I understand which isn't much). It's not "we hate women so let's separate off" like the feminist / Nazi / Zionist view. It's more like "trying to cope with women these days isn't worth the hassle". As a result for example I haven't heard of any gay MGTOW. Because there's no point in making a big deal about giving upon women if you just happened to not be interested in the first place I guess?

But if things get worse I think you might see gay MGTOW too. Or perhaps they already exist?

LoopyPro · 2022-10-08T17:46:59+00:00

The reason is economical. To a degree, women depend on redistribution of resources. Since men make up most of the production, and women do most spending, they need men to produce in order to maintain current levels of wealth and standards of living.

Men who go their own way will only produce enough for themselves. As a result, overall wealth will decrease if more men decide to stop giving more than they're allowed to take. It will mean that women have to work more themselves to create their own wealth. As they don't want to do that, they have to make sure men don't set themselves free.

qtyapa · 2022-10-08T20:17:39+00:00

nothing just the usual, society shaming any independent men movement, see incels, MGTOW, MRAs.

Forcetobereckonedwit · 2022-10-08T17:34:19+00:00

It's right in your question. Women get upset at MGTOW because the constant privilege and attention that is the baseline of their actual existence comes from men.

If men actually turn away from women, guess who's left out standing in a field...

I think it's a subconscious thing, but it's there.

For example, conversely, if there was a huge movement of women away from men, we would start to worry about the continuation of the species, on some level.

Just my opinion. Feel free to have your own

totoroloco_phd · 2022-10-08T18:58:55+00:00

It pisses them off because women want a simp that marries them while they cheat, don't cook, and don't work.

Mushybasha · 2022-10-08T20:06:28+00:00

Seems like they hate men who are both aware of how the system is gamed to enslave them and take proactive steps to avoid it.

MezzaCorux · 2022-10-08T21:35:38+00:00

Because if men stop dating women then how will those women be able to control them. It’s because modern feminism isn’t about equality, it’s about power and control.

dnasequence68 · 2022-10-08T18:36:49+00:00

If we don't engage with them, they won't be able to yell @ and blame men for everything.

jsutforthis2 · 2022-10-08T22:01:59+00:00

I will tell you why

Because it's a community for MEN going their own way. Women having communities dedicated for doing their own things, talking so much shit about us men is apparently fine. Men having a single community dedicated for men only doing their own thing is apparently wrong.

Wasn't perfect but it was a place to share ideas, thoughts and experiences Subreddit deleted, trying to shame those who were part of it. Apparently they say we are not allowed not to participate.

But we don't give a fuck we'll do it anyway

Thund77 · 2022-10-08T17:33:15+00:00

I asked myself the same as OP. I am new with terminology and never been in their subreddit, and cant because its banned, but I feel meaning behind it is: we will go our own way and stop being involved in their cause, so they cannot blame us anymore, also they cannot make us help them in that cause. Let them figure out their shit on they own.

And maybe thats the answer that womens movement cannot progress without mens help and without mens involvement as a blamer or a helper, and thats why they are all so furious. The fact that without us they will still have a lot of shit and it cannot be blamed on us infuriates them. My guess.

I mean, why would they even care? Isnt that what they always wanted?

KazukiYahashi · 2022-10-08T17:59:58+00:00

They believe it is only ever OK for women to want to focus on themselves, and not want anything to do with men, but God forbid some men want to do the same for their own valid reasons, after being treated like garbage. They can’t handle that some men don’t want to be taken advantage of.

Normal-Yogurtcloset5 · 2022-10-08T20:37:10+00:00

Many years ago I had an acquaintance in my friend group who was constantly competing against me. I saw no point in competing with him so ignored his comments and attempts to provoke me. A friend of ours said that he found the entire situation hilarious because the more the guy tried to get a rise out of me the more frustrated he became which made him attempt to provoke me more.

MGTOW is very much like the situation I had with that acquaintance. Some men have refused to be provoked by feminists and gynocentrism and it’s making them frustrated and anxious because, deep down, they know they want and need men but they also need to keep up this charade of feminism. Instead of dealing with their behaviors and corrupt ideology they project their anxiety onto men and claim that MGTOW is harming women. How? By not providing them with free food, entertainment and gifts? By not getting involved in a marriage contract that benefits one party when they break it? By not being cuckolded and raising another man’s child? If this is how women are harmed by MGTOW then they only have themselves to blame for agreeing to an unequal system that benefitted them. Only a fool would expect men to continue to participate in such an unfair system.

This is the system they wanted…now they have to deal with the consequences.

aknabi · 2022-10-08T17:17:54+00:00

Lashing out that their grift of free goods, cash and travel isn’t working. Blame the mark, keep the grift

Amazing-Bit6140 · 2022-10-08T20:31:58+00:00

I’ve seen countless feminists claiming that MGTOW (men going their own way) is harmful to them and they are extremely against it.

Women's main and definitely easiest form of power is getting a man to do something for them. MGTOW is all about stopping this from happening, and not doing things, paying for things, giving things to women at all.

In their minds it is a direct attack on their ability to influence the world and gather resources for themselves, because even rabid man hating feminists still get most of their resources from men in some way or another. Even if they're making their own money, they still want the ability to quit their life and live off some simp and drain him of his money until they want to get off their ass and earn their own again.

It is harmful. In the same way slave owners thought outlawing slavery was harmful. To their perception of power, it absolutely was.

Doesn't mean we shouldn't still do it. MGTOW for life

aerial_coitus · 2022-10-08T17:39:03+00:00

Nothing is wrong with MGTOW at all. Note that if you are doing something that is enraging feminists and causing them to lose their shit then you are probably doing something right.

Dandyman-GM · 2022-10-09T00:23:45+00:00

many feminists want men to only exists as resources to exploit. MGTOW wants men to cut these women off. need i explain more?

outhouse_wholesaler · 2022-10-09T00:36:20+00:00

Because despite all their gum flapping about fish not needing bicycles, deep down they all still want one.

NoCommunication5976 · 2022-10-09T01:50:29+00:00

Feminists don’t want women to face the consequences of their actions, so when they see the consequences of feminism, they feel even more enraged because they created feminism to be free of consequences, and instead, feminism created consequences for them.

somethingneet · 2022-10-08T18:22:10+00:00

The issue is that women want us to fulfill our roles while they don't fulfill theirs and hate us for us doing our part. So, when men collectively decide to stop doing our part, they get even more hateful.

kiadragon · 2022-10-08T20:13:09+00:00

Loss of power. MGTOW represents a loss of power over men. You can't abuse a man who walks away.

OrwellianHell · 2022-10-08T19:06:16+00:00

Being a MGTOW is an individual choice made by a man. Whether feminists are against it is wholly irrelevant.

Kandidog1 · 2022-10-08T21:40:23+00:00

It’s their way on exerting control over the man. Stick to ur guns fellas!

GalaxyNerfNC · 2022-10-08T21:46:32+00:00

For the most part I don’t see a downside to MGTOW, yes there is a small portion of people that hate women that call themselves part of it but to my understanding, MGTOW is mostly just empowering men when they need it most. Showing them that they shouldn’t simp to online women or to go along and immaculate yourself because society tells you to. To stay strong when times are tough and to focus on bettering yourself rather than chasing women.

StingRayFins · 2022-10-09T00:44:31+00:00

You're not allowed to say anything bad about women no matter what. Doesn't matter if it's true or accurate.

If it hurts their feelings or holds them accountable then they'll kill you or shame you or cancel you.

From what I've seen that's how they operate.

otterdog891 · 2022-10-08T19:41:39+00:00

Because a lot of mgtow stories show the dark side of feminism.

AndyBrown65 · 2022-10-09T00:54:46+00:00

MGTOW is also about about putting yourself first and not women first. There is a list of things going around and on that list is “don’t help women you don’t know “

We had a classic example during the week where a wardrobe fell on a woman and then men who rushed to help her were arrested for suspicion of murder. That is how bad the police are.

When you adopt this rule you actually realize how much men help out women and how little women help men. I have stopped helping women I don’t know but also have a sub rule that a good deed needs to be paid forward (Eg opening a door, returning a shopping trolley etc) I have paid forward many good deeds to men but over about 3 years I have paid zero deeds to women because I have yet to have women do any small deed for me in public.

MGTOW is all about men being assertive and feminists hate that men put themselves first

CarHungry · 2022-10-09T01:40:42+00:00

Validating mgtow validates their grievances, which are inherently gender related.

Alot of feminists view civil rights and gendered issues as a zero sum game. That's why when the scotus ruling on roe v wade was announced alot of women came out saying something along the lines of "men need to pay for this somehow by being forced to have vasectomys" etc, because people in general DO in fact view this as a zero sum game where if women lose rights men should too. Even when there's no male equivalent, or men didn't even gain from the ruling.

arcasul · 2022-10-08T18:26:10+00:00

We dont spend money on them

Temporary_Spend_3111 · 2022-10-08T17:38:33+00:00

I see the importance of MGTOW however the particularly frustrated men who rather would speak more provocatively. Tend to go there only because they have nowhere else to go. This leads to a vocal minority to bring the movement down a few notches and gives ammo to those who claim mgtow is misogynistic.

Is it inherently misogynistic? No. Just like how not all democrats are mindless pc drones. And how not all republicans are racist bigots.

But the vocal minority speaks volumes to those who wont dig further into any given group or movement

mistralol · 2022-10-08T18:48:05+00:00

| is harmful to them and they are extremely against it

Yes. Its extremly harmfull to women because the men involved in mgtow will no longer be paying the bills or doing the jobs and behaviour that women want and feel entitled to have.

The other problem the femists have is they cannot identify in public who is mgtow eg men who will date have sex but never actually commit to releationships are a really bad problem for women currently.

However mgtow is a reaction to the current climate. Irocinally its existed even since before the 90's or the internet was mainstream mostly because of the reaction to divorce laws.

gafgone5 · 2022-10-08T21:13:38+00:00

When you focus on yourself what loses focus? Them.

-ultrainstinct · 2022-10-09T01:39:44+00:00

As someone who previously identified as MGTOW, it's probably because of the two different mindsets you see, even within the community.

The first is the type who simply focuses on himself and generally ignores women, he knows that a woman won't turn his life into bliss, and that he needs to instead focus his efforts on himself. They could also believe that modern women simply aren't worth the effort anymore, or only for sex.

The second is the type who claims to focus on himself but talks down on women as inferior. He posts in MGTOW communities not out of self-improvement, but out of hate that women aren't the way he thinks they should be, and that they're lesser than men.

I'd see the scenario similarly to how it is with incels. You've got the harmless incels who just don't get out of the house, and then you've got the incels that go shooting up schools. The focus of the discussion is almost always on the latter.

Mechanik_J · 2022-10-09T01:51:17+00:00

They think mgtow is an organization instead of a philosophical thought/philosophical idea.

Woozuki · 2022-10-09T02:59:10+00:00

Nothing. MGTOW is the way forward. MGTOW is how we transcend them.

MicrosoftOSX · 2022-10-08T21:56:04+00:00

Strong and independent woman who doesn’t need man. MGTOW is men’s version of that ^

They don’t like it because… originally the ones claiming they don’t need man are less desirable. Like around 2014 before the rest of the society picks up on it. They do not like MGTOW because it implies it is a choice. It is projection, their “independence “ wasnt a choice so they get annoyed by MGTOW. Women needs constant validation, MGTOW is a big slap.

The ones respects MGTOW are the ones focusing on themselve by choice.

Also, women in a relationship gets annoyed by MGTOW too if they aren’t content with their partner but doesnt decide to break up. These women always want to hook a MGTOW person up with their single friend. The “friend” is always less attractive then them. If she is a 9 the friend is a 7, if she is a 4 the friend is a 1. They do not understand “I dont need you to introduce me to a woman”. They just cant.

This post is from by observation and personal experience. Could be wrong for your case.

If these people become annoying just ask have you ever wonder why xxxx is gay? Whatever they answer just tell them “it is none of your beeswax” Not sure why these people always felt entitled to comment on people’s choice going MGTOW so you gotta throw something similar but PC to show them a psychological mirror

BasedDev · 2022-10-09T03:04:58+00:00

Feminists think MGTOW is a problem because the only thing you can't get a crazy woman to do is leave you alone.

Morrighan1129 · 2022-10-08T19:18:30+00:00

Well, the majority of feminists hate anything a guy does, so any organized movement by men is treated like Al Qaeda.

Secondly, many of them look at the extremists of the MGTOW movement -the 'PumpnDump', the guy who go on dates, or interact with women, but only for sex -and insist that's derogatory towards women. Which, unlike the SCUM )Society for Cutting Up Men) Manifestro Crowd, is just not allowed.

My thing is... if women are stupid enough to fall for the PumpnDump... That's their own problem lol.

Pimpdaddywonka · 2022-10-08T20:15:24+00:00

Is miss that subreddit

Darth_Zoidberg_77 · 2022-10-08T20:15:42+00:00

Hypothetical situation: You go swimming in a freshwater lake, and come up with a leech on your chest. You carefully scale it off, then discard it and go on with your day.

From your perspective, you undertook a simple action to protect your wellbeing - removing a leech which can potentially cause infection or disease. It likely wouldn't have killed you, but why on earth would you want a leech on your chest? The survival of the leech is not your concern.

From the leech's perspective, it was seeking out survival by latching onto you. You cruelly deprived it of the sustenance it needed to survive. You didn't have to; while it would have been inconvenient for you to allow it to latch onto you, it (probably) wouldn't have killed you, and that would have allowed the leech to survive, after all. Why would you be so evil as to knowingly consign the leech to death?

While I'm not calling any group of people leeches, I'm illustrating a philosophy here.

nofaploveit · 2022-10-08T21:01:46+00:00

Nothing, it’s just men choosing to be single

DoubleDollars69 · 2022-10-08T20:57:05+00:00

Like any movement/philosophy, it can have bad actors and be taken to the extreme.

ThePiachu · 2022-10-08T21:56:07+00:00

As I see it, it might be like feminism. On paper (as in by the definition of "equal rights", aka egalitarianism) it's something that only bigots can object to. In practice, there are a number of people in the community that go beyond the basic definition, do bad things and give the group a bad name. Same could be true with MGTOW - on paper it's people making choices for themselves that doesn't affect anyone else, so only bigots can object to that. In practice you can have some assholes that are doing bad things and are also MGTOW therefore giving MGTOW a bad name.

revamped10 · 2022-10-08T22:39:53+00:00

You wouldn’t let a fish tell you how to catch it right?

DryStation · 2022-10-08T23:30:59+00:00

Although a good idea, they didn’t gatekeep their group well enough and there’s a tonne of misogynists and incels (which typically isn’t a bad thing just that these guys are the bad stereotypes of one).

Lui_Le_Diamond · 2022-10-09T00:10:43+00:00

MGTOW has some toxic dudes, but so does this sub and any other group. Mostly it's "bad" for inconveniencing feminists.

denvercaniac · 2022-10-09T01:09:34+00:00

Those who oppose it are selfish, cruel, self-absorbed and devoid of compassion.

Hefty_Ant1025 · 2022-10-09T01:15:35+00:00

Nothing

roharareddit · 2022-10-09T02:22:12+00:00

That's just it. You are focusing on yourself. Not only feminists have a problem with that, most women have a problem with that. You have to understand that women depend on men in a way that men do not depend on women. Women are nearly entirely dependent on men for protection and provision no matter what we are told to the contrary.

When a man puts himself first he is called selfish. When a group of men put themselves first that is a threat.

Oil_and_gas_RTOC · 2022-10-09T02:31:39+00:00

It only works if the slaves are subjugated. If they run away and do their own thing the masters don't benefit.

Pwner_Guy · 2022-10-09T02:51:41+00:00

You've been following the Canadian parliament recently haven't you.

rabel111 · 2022-10-09T03:22:05+00:00

MGTOW is the natural result of feminism. Got to be careful what you wish for. You might get it.

Felarhin · 2022-10-09T03:34:07+00:00

Makes it harder for them to find a slave.

Lanky-Bank-320 · 2022-10-09T04:06:39+00:00

Mgtow is not bad. Some women can’t stand when a man stands up for himself

MikiSayaka33 · 2022-10-08T19:02:39+00:00

Well, if these types of feminists weren't treating men like trash, especially those that have serious issues and being outright dismissive/callously joking about said issues. We wouldn't have MGTOW.

(And we wouldn't have a few incel stereotypes rearing it's ugly head occasionally or men doing the "2D is better than 3D.")

xMrjamjam · 2022-10-08T21:07:07+00:00

Feminists should be glad men are going their own way, they accuse all men of being rapists well you cant rape a woman when you actively AVOID THEM.

Then when you avoid women they call you an incel, nope because an incel wants to get laid but cannot so technically the right word to use would be a volcel "voluntary celibate" aka actively choosing to not have sex or avoiding it entirely.

Then when bringing these facts up they call you a misogynist (just throwing stuff at a wall hoping anything sticks) which yet again is impossible if you avoid women as someone who hates women would actively try to do harm to women which in the rare cases where it does happen that public shooter often ends up dead which ironically they were pushed over a period of many years to get to that point by women in the first place.

Mgtow is freedom for men and peace of mind for feminists, they should be encouraging men to go mgtow if they are truly so scared of us.

Feminists cannot be debated with as their core beliefs have no foundation to them you shoupd also avoid debating with them because all they want is your time and attention hence why they name and shame you to try and get an emotional response to extend the time they have with you.

Live your lives in peace and cut off anyone who wants to get in the way of that

BlvckAnomally26 · 2022-10-08T21:17:59+00:00

They are against it because they don’t want men having free will. Feminists can’t manipulate or take advantage of a man that refuses to not play their games. Of course they think it’s harmful because that’s one of the only advantages they have.

traveller1976 · 2022-10-08T19:24:10+00:00

From the dawn of time, it's been about control. Mgtow is absolute unconditional freedom of men from the tyranny of modern, feminist, abusive, cruel women. That's why they hate it with every cell of their being. The vag doesn't work.

Eric-Ridenour · 2022-10-08T19:34:00+00:00

If a man doesn’t care about women, the feminist loses control over them. That’s it. Anger over losing control.

Druss94508Legend · 2022-10-08T19:58:04+00:00

I’m MGTOW. I learned what it was and figured. Just focusing and living for myself was healthier than living for others. Made more sense to focus on my happiness, health and success because no one else was going to.

I got flack from coworkers and called incel for it at an old job. I just said there’s nothing wrong with living for yourself. I said I don’t hate or blame women for my singleness. I made some bad life choices, I’m overweight and not really please with how I look and am. I want to make myself happy, make myself better for me. I was at first doing it for dates and female attention but realized after awhile it wasn’t helpful at all for myself. People will like me or they won’t.

I have my hobbies and I’m doing more for me. Hell, I’m taking my mom to a concert tonight to see Elton John. We haven’t always seen eye to eye and have a complicated past but I’ve learned to let things go and move on.

I’m happy living my life for myself. I’m not where I want to be but I’m still on that adventure.

texasjoe · 2022-10-08T22:57:53+00:00

They're not Quiet Quitting, women have just been Quiet Firing them over the years.

DarkObserver0457 · 2022-10-08T23:16:27+00:00

If they’re happy, and they aren’t hurting anyone, more power to them.

MarsRisen · 2022-10-09T00:08:50+00:00

What have you not learned? Feminism teaches them to hate men, especially happy ones. Misery likes company. Why ya think they get so upset about their boyfriend’s playing video games or watching sports? It’s about them being in control, and dominant. If they get into sports, hobbies or games, we’re supposed to support it.

AndyBrown65 · 2022-10-09T00:17:58+00:00

There’s nothing wrong with MGTOW and it actually aligns well with the nut bag views of “I don’t need a man”. It’s all about men saying “I dont need a woman”

The attention is off them and they hate it.

Wylanderuk · 2022-10-09T00:23:35+00:00

Frankly its a loss of power or if you like a perceived loss of power coupled with a misunderstanding (be it intentional or not) between disinterest and dislike or hatred with a perhaps a big dash of projection.

Hell I am technically MGTOW and have been for 20 years, well before I ever heard of the term. I don't hate or dislike women, I just don't see a upside to intimate relationships with them.

SavannahOolala · 2022-10-09T01:09:29+00:00

I think it has to do with the reason behind why. I read a lot of negative comments from people saying that MGTOW is bad because it establishes a harmful stereotype of women (that women are so and so). I noticed that the MGTOW population usually has two main reasons behind why they're in the movement: 1) because women are so and so and 2) because the system is so and so. I what these anti-MGTOW groups have focused on is the first reason while MGTOWers focus on the second reason.

Azihayya · 2022-10-09T01:40:35+00:00

Maybe if it was just genuinely men going their own way, but the movement is typically tied up with guys being pretty spiteful. I haven't seen anything from a MGTOW community in years--I thought it all transferred over to Men's Rights.

mastergardnar · 2022-10-09T03:54:34+00:00

Feminism is not activism about females now. It's a big cult now. Nothing wrong from detaching from women. They all are fuckers who fear about their power on system will evaporate if every man or a large population of males become ly masculine

liebestod0130 · 2022-10-09T04:10:02+00:00

Well, in the mainstream it's considered misogynistic.

SoberCatboy · 2022-10-09T05:34:44+00:00

I have no idea why it's bad. Never understood it. Only explaination I have is they want us to be their slaves and they don't like when guys excercise free will.

Emozpqqy · 2022-10-08T19:38:31+00:00

Some believe women lose power when/if men stop pursuing them. Related: Despite the sex positivity ramblings that they don’t want prostitution legalized, which is a monopoly advantage vanishing. It’s all about advantage seeking.

RedditIsProMisandry · 2022-10-08T20:30:36+00:00

They can’t leech off of men like the parasites they are.

domnulsta · 2022-10-08T18:45:47+00:00

Quick search on Wikipedia makes me kinda think they are on the extremist site. The page does sound biased and is obviously against the group, but at the same time, presenting the base of the community, it does sound too much. Does anybody have a bit better description of them?

Bascome · 2022-10-08T22:04:43+00:00

It's the exact same sentiment as "I don't need no man".

gckman915 · 2022-10-08T20:06:29+00:00

Nothing wrong or bad with MGTOW. But the idea of men separating themselves from women scares the shit out of even the biggest feminists.

I'm gay and all my bros and lovers have been men. Some might say that I am part of MGTOW. But I actually don't think MGTOW is the right step. Women and men have cohabited since the dawn of time, and remarkably well. It's this recent woke bullshit that what is corrupting society. Creating problems from thin air. Social media is really adding fuel to the fire.

Rather than isolating ourselves from the other sex, I think we need to address the rediculous political climate we are currently in. Vote with common sense. Unfortunately most are blissfully ignorant and will unfortunately remain this way. I don't see a bright future for humanity.

Familiar-Antelope316 · 2022-10-08T23:44:39+00:00

I think it stems from a time on reddit when The Red Pill was still a sub, a lot of mysoginists and incels posted there which lead to it getting banned, at the same time MGTOW spun up as an offshoot of TRP. When TRP was quarantined and then banned a lot of the people who frequented TRP went to the MGTOW subreddit.

I remember going to that subreddit around that time and it did seem like a mix of people focusing on personal growth and a subset that were focused on hating women and people who disagreed with them. It wasn't every measured back then IMO.

chiliwicket · 2022-10-08T18:48:20+00:00

Real feminists and all sensible women have no problem with MGTOW. People who claim to have a problem with it are shit disturbers trying to stir a pot that isn't there.

Of course, it doesn't help that so many of MGTOW are actually woman haters and use the MGTOW label as an excuse be hateful pricks.

LiquidDreamtime · 2022-10-08T23:33:59+00:00

I’ve never seen this claim. WGTOW is a popular sub. Who said this?

VippidyP · 2022-10-08T20:26:21+00:00

Jesus Christ this sub is brainwashed.

degustibus · 2022-10-08T21:15:26+00:00

The main thing wrong with MGTOW is that it's unrealistic and will ultimately harm most men who embrace it. Please, hear me out.

Are we living in a bizarre time where cultural norms and laws are making men rationally rethink their traditional roles? Yes, most definitely.

Can a boycott or withdrawal of sorts be the right response to an untenable situation? Yes.

Are men more likel to live healthy, productive, happy lives by simply foregoing companionship? According to all the data so far and what I have experience and seen, not too often.

We aren't talking about quitting cigarrettes. This isn't deciding you're done with hard drinking or super time consuming video games. This isn't quitting fast food and working our. This isn't cutting back on screen time to develop a hobby.

MGTOW suggest that men and women have different paths open to them and a man can simply opt out without harming his own future and society. This is clearly false in most cases. For every guy who flourishes apart there will easily be 50 who will feel crushinng despair even if they can't articulate why. Men and women literally need each other for the sake of our species. The problems aren't men or women, but a culture that is decadent. Now if for whatever reason a man really can't find a woman to love or at least like and respect, maybe he needs to come up with a new set of values and lifestyle to make living and dying alone childless a more palatable option. If you're Michelangelo with a unique genius talent and passion, go ahead and focus on that.... If you'rer Isaac Newton, stay celibate and work on sacred scriptures and natural philosophy. If you and your brother, the Wright Brothers....

But most of us do horrribly long term without companionship and the blessing of children. Because of unique circumstances in my life it's highly unlikely I'll ever marry, but dear God, being a dad is awesome. And I got very lucky that the mom didn't want to fight in court about everything. And in some ways she is the epitome of a ball busting "independent" woman who is in fact constantly needing help and attention and resources, but to her credit she knows both a mom and dad are crucial in raising kids.

If you're a teen or 20something it may make a lot of sense to develop yourself for lots of reasons, but as life continues it will only continue with optimism with new life and a stake in the future.

jackedtradie · 2022-10-08T18:08:18+00:00

I’ll get downvoted but whatever

MGTOW sounds great on paper. Focus on gym, sports, gaming, friends, whatever

Every MGTOW community I’ve looked into is basically revenge fantasy against women. It’s just bitching about women, about how much women are gonna lose out on now men are MGTOWing, etc etc etc

That’s just what I’ve seen. It’s not all like that, but a lot is.

For a community that is apparently going their own way, away from women, they seem to focus on women a lot

randonumero · 2022-10-08T21:32:30+00:00

Because people want to have their cake and eat it too. The standards for men and women have changed over the years but ultimately the vast majority of us don't want to be alone. That means that most folks are going to have to settle at some point. Likely the men who go their own way aren't going to the men who were most desirable during many women's primes so when they go away those women loose a lot of options.

My guess is that some women misunderstand it just as much as some men misunderstand feminism.

Athrowawayaccount25 · 2022-10-08T19:50:29+00:00

Because a good handful of y’all are incels masquerading as MGTOW because it’s more acceptable than openly saying “I fucking hate women”

Those of y’all that are actually mgtow are dope as shit. Do your own thing, find yourself and enjoy life your own way.

Edit: just got banned from r/offmychest for this comment lmao, hope it was worth it

Zenia_neow · 2022-10-08T20:34:37+00:00

From what I've gathered, feminist don't really care about men going thier own way. They only dislike the "not actually going your own way" part where MGTOW guys don't leave women alone and moan about women's picky behavior.

Shadowdragon409 · 2022-10-09T02:41:23+00:00

I actually saw this question asked on either r/explainlikeimfive or r/OutOfTheLoop I forget which though. The top answer was basically that the movement started out decently with noble intentions, but it slowly devolved into a women hating and incel movement as more bad actors identified with it and ruined its reputation.

Complicated_Peanuts · 2022-10-08T20:27:44+00:00

Edit: The part in quotes isn’t what I believe….. it’s answering the question OP asked.

In my mind you can summarize the logic easily as such:"If you're not interested in having women in your life, it must be because you hate women. People who hate women are more likely to cause harm to women."

VippidyP · 2022-10-08T20:22:31+00:00

Because they don't usually go their own way. They typically spend their time complaining about women. That isn't healthy.

SheHulkSucks · 2022-10-08T23:13:39+00:00

mgtow is like the jews choosing to leave their homes and cluster in one area hoping that'll assuage the nazis.

randyest · 2022-10-08T23:26:09+00:00

TIL what MGTOW is. I thought it was some kind of military vehicle.

gamerlololdude · 2022-10-09T00:22:11+00:00

The subreddit got banned for becoming the typical misogynistic manosphere thing. Just like incels come off as nothing more than involuntarily celibate but even that concept is a harmful worldview along with the iceberg of misogyny that movement represents.

I been on the subreddit before it got banned. It was it’s constantly shitting on women. You would think that a group for men going their own way so not worrying about women would have anything but topics on women but it became about just shitting on women.

GloryToChadlantis · 2022-10-08T20:47:52+00:00

allot mgtows can be assholes.
I did a video on the matter. allot of them tend to really just be woman obsessed incels.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFqH9D6ejdE&ab\_channel=ChadsOfChadlantis

NetNeutralitee · 2022-10-08T16:30:36+00:00

Go to against hate subreddits and search MGTOW. Let’s just say the comments weren’t always just about going your own way. There was a lot of anger there too.

TheSilverShade · 2022-10-08T17:13:01+00:00

Men-only groups tend towards the same toxicity as women-only groups. FDS And MGTOW have a lot more in common than either will admit.

What’s wrong with men wanting to focus on themselves?

Nothing. MGTOW however was not men focusing on themselves. It was men shitting on women while claiming to focus on themselves. FDS does the same where 80% of their posts are about men being the worst but they claim to not be an anti-man group.

Anih1list · 2022-10-08T23:10:51+00:00

It’s segregation, which inherently breeds tribalism and contempt. Lesbian separatists tried a feminist version of this a few decades ago and now they’re all malding.

Trosso · 2022-10-08T18:46:38+00:00

MGTOW are incels who have given up on society, they aren’t emotionally and mentally strong enough to endure what life throws at them, and can’t take responsibility for themselves. Rather than understand they’re partially to blame they blame women as a whole.

MGTOW are like nonces in my books. Give me the major creeps and ick, and are not real men either.

Positive-Ad-1859 · 2022-10-08T21:49:02+00:00

Don't listen to anything a says

vanduychr · 2022-10-08T22:48:28+00:00

Like feminism you get the crowd of gender blaming/hate

2022-10-09T10:42:51+00:00

My another take on this is. As a MGTOW and Black gay man, you can't win against a woman. It is always misogyny if you ignore her and don't interact with her because of indifference or even worse you want to talk to her, help her, support her is also seen as misogyny because you don't give her credits of the doubt.

I fight a Woman, woman beater and a woman beats me up, I'm a pussy. No matter which direction I am a misogynist, so why even bother with a gender that has derailed that much, if i touch her or don't touch her, I will be in trouble and eventually die in a instant like a bomb.

They are not worth it anymore. Where ever its relationship, friendship or support, they deserve nothing.

RandomName1466688 · 2022-10-09T10:44:33+00:00

Math.

Females are 85% of consumer spending but do not make anywhere near 85% of the income. Meaning the global economy revolves around females robbing men at State-sponsored gunpoint.

If the men walk away, the whole thing collapses.

MRA doesn't scare them at all because you can't negotiate from a position of weakness, and if you are still talking, you can still be distracted by false leads. But having no demands and walking away terrifies them.

There are books that explain all this, while adding a fiction element so there's something interesting going on.

Title	What’s wrong with MGTOW?
Author	brianthewizard1
Upvotes	497
Comments	427
Date	October 8, 2022 4:18 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/xywr43/whats_wrong_with_mgtow/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/whats-wrong-with-mgtow.1134593 https://theredarchive.com/post/1134593

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