Q4All Does the BP hate the idea of systematic approaches working because they destroy the idea of things just magically happening?

63daddy · 2023-04-18T02:38:33+00:00

In college both physics professors and philosophy professors taught that every event has a cause. This it seems to me includes attraction. There is an understandable reason why people become attracted to other people. Of course, it makes sense that one might want to understand this process.

As with all knowledge, one can apply it ethically or unethically, but there’s nothing inherently wrong with trying to understand how attraction works.

satisfiedmind- · 2023-04-18T06:46:58+00:00

Systematic approaches are useful on a system level. As an individual you need to take an individual approach. It’s not about wanting some kind of magic to be true. It’s literally just common sense. Individuals can be outliers therefore them applying a systematic approach to their individual dating life would be a fail. It amazes me how many RP guys struggle with this concept.

fakingandnotmakingit · 2023-04-18T04:03:49+00:00

My problem with rp is that it provides nothing that actually works that isn't also already mainstream

Women aren't all wonderful! No shit. Women are people. People aren't all wonderful

Looksmaxxing! No shit. People like attractive people. Women like attractive men

Status maxxing! No shit. People with high status are generally well liked

Moneymaxxing! No shit. It's not like gold diggers isn't an already existing trope

Self improvement! No shit. People like people with shit going for them

Find someone that fits your frame and hold frame! No shit. Find someone that matches your values and goals instead of bending over like a pretzel and simping

Have abundance mentality! No shit. It's not like "there's plenty of fish in the sea" isn't stock standard advice

And then you get to the cringey shit like women are the oldest teenager in the house!

That's why rp is cringe. It doesn't really offer anything of use that isn't already mainstream or commonsense.

Even spinning plates isn't new. Lots of people date around before commitment. It's called having the exclusivity talk.

AngeCruelle · 2023-04-18T06:58:20+00:00

Consult the insight of military strategist Helmuth von Moltke: "No battle plan survives contact with the enemy."

If you're looking for a system that will unquestionably and seamlessly work in all situations involving humans, who are irrational and often unpredictable, you may as well be relying on magic.

somegiantess · 2023-04-18T03:07:15+00:00

Hey, maybe I'm misunderstanding your post, but what I see here doesn't really make sense to me.

The first thing that doesn't make sense is that the red pill isn't evidence based or successful. People who end up buying into this ideology find themselves deeper and deeper in frustration, shame, hopelessness, and anger. This can eventually turn into the desperate rage of the black pill. And putting aside the harm this can do to society; are these people happier and more successful at dating because they bought into this? I would say no.

Now, that doesn't mean that there are not things in the red pill standard advice which some people might find helpful or which might improve their chances of finding a partner. But those things can be found elsewhere, completely divorced from the destructive parts of the red pill.

The second thing that I don't understand is the issue with a dating story being "non-magical" because it is well understood in the context of human interactions as a whole. I don't think that makes something less valuable just because you understand that...there are a whole host of interactions people have in a day and statistically, some of them could lead to romance.

The third thing you mention is that dating is work that often goes unacknowledged. And I don't disagree. I think that if you are putting effort into making romantic or social connections, that takes time and planning and society doesn't really give you a pat on the back for that. But...I think there are plenty of things we don't get kudos for as adults that we still do anyway. So...how is dating different?

itm4l2000 · 2023-04-18T06:06:09+00:00

"Women are made to love, not understood" - Oscar Wilde

BP is the love part of this quote, RP is the other half attempting to understand women.

I think BP men are very attractive to women because that's where a woman's power is projected, much like a host and parasite.

Women aren't stupid. They don't have the physical strength and endurance nor the hormonal stability to navigate a threatening and unpredictable world.

For that she needs a (red pill) beast that she can emotionally tame for her security and her offspring, financially extract and convert him into a (blue pilled) partner. Remember, the beast was neither a small statured nor living in a small shack.

At times (not always) should the beast spit the blue pill and retake the red pill, a woman can no longer feel emotionally or physically safe in the presence of the beast and will begin to search for another host.

For a man to be in a long term relationship he has to oscillate between RP and BP to make her feel emotionally, physically and financially safe. If a man leans too much on one end for too long, a woman has a list of "back up men" at her disposal that she has cultivated and maintained throughout the years.

A man can under no circumstances question the host/parasitic nature that he provides for her, because in doing so he makes a woman feel unsafe.

YetAnotherCommenter · 2023-04-18T09:59:55+00:00

You might have a point, although I think there are really three more underlying aspects:

Systemizing dating/romance in the TRP manner forces individuals to confront the fact that they have lizard brains and, consequently, throbbing biological urges. A lot of people would find it ego-dystonic to hear, or confront the likelihood, that their romances are strongly based on superficial traits. I think that's where the whole "magic" thing you talk about comes in... TRP-style systemization turns something "magic" into something very fleshly and "lower urges."
The idea that being pro-social to women will make women want to have sex with you incentivizes a lot of chivalrous behavior on the part of men (i.e. it is a buttress of female privilege). Women don't want to lose that. And BP men don't want to believe their chivalry and white-knighting has no reward.
Perhaps the most strong reason BP women have to oppose systemizing dating strategy is high-systemizer males are often socially un-adroit (which is an evolutionarily undesirable trait). They want naturals... people who are genetically gifted in the social "skills" department. Someone who had to consciously learn to be socially adroit is a "mimic" (in evo-biology language) just as a man who has lifts in his shoes is. They want men who can read the complex body language, the witty banter, the complicated signals, the subtle glances, etc... because social adroitness improves a man's ability to control/manipulate other men and thus climb social hierarchies.

gymbronyc718 · 2023-04-18T02:41:43+00:00

Let me ask you something? Does it take work to call your friends? How much planning goes into organizing a happy hour with them? How laborious is spending few hours in their company? How scary it is to talk to them about all manner of things?

I don't understand why men make talking to and dating women into such a huge deal as if they are scaling Mount Everest or dismantling a bomb.

Soloandthewookiee · 2023-04-18T03:52:40+00:00

No and I don't even have a problem with systematic approaches. What I have a problem with is people treating a systematic approach as a checklist where you get sex at the end, because they tend to turn quite nasty when they realize it doesn't work that way.

Safinated · 2023-04-18T03:32:32+00:00

No, we just take you at your word that you want “someone” not “anyone”

bottleblank · 2023-04-18T09:12:35+00:00

It is supposed to give a framework for you to attempt to achieve your relationship goal through a systematic, evidence based approach instead of just doing a BP 'spray and pray'.

Most men have too much anxiety around irl approaching to "spray and pray", this is not the default.

Spray and pray would tbh probably get you a few dates. More so even than sitting on the internet theorising about it.

neetykeeno · 2023-04-18T09:10:35+00:00

I don't want a man. My system involves with increasing degrees of directness showing and/or telling men who show interest that they need to go away I am not interested.

The general response I see from highly systemetizing men when I run my system on them is they become personally angry at me.

Could you guys maybe stop doing that? I assure you that it is just my system.

MistyMaisel · 2023-04-18T15:50:34+00:00

The blue pill also gives system advice: self-improve, and here are the ways to generally speaking self-improve. It in no way robs anything of the individual magic to understand how relationships tend to form, how they stay together, what draws people together, etc. It's like saying if you know how sushi is made, it's less magical. Not really, if anything, you gain a deeper appreciation for your own specific sushi and enjoy the quirks and factors involved.

I think this is often why women like myself are offended that men act like women do nothing in the dating process. I once mocked this by saying, oh yes, I just magically looked this good, my ass was just magically that way, I just effortlessly giggled and made that remark, I just naturally was making eyes at that guy, I just happened to be hanging around him a lot with open body language and constant positivity. I just happened to mention I like Quintin Tarantino movies when a new one had just come out. When he asked me out, I just happened to lean over the menu in that way and my hair just happened to have a few romantic and girlish strands out. My outfit just so happened to perfectly show off certain parts and hide others. I just happened to shave my legs and other parts that day, I just happened to have matching underwear. I just happened to cook him his favourite meal a few times following that. Like, come on, if you think women have no system involved in dating, you're either blind, dumb, or full of your own farts. Of course we know courting has a system, we're the masters of the system you goofballs are playing in. We handed you your parts and you still think we aren't masterminds? Men think if you aren't aggressively doing something and super obvious, you naturally must be doing absolutely nothing. GOOSES!

The problem with the red-pill isn't that it is a system, it's that it is an evil system typically. It is all about manipulating people through doing psychological damage to them and taking advantage of them to get them to do things they wouldn't otherwise do. Notice how in my system above, I'm not trying to get men to do things they don't want to do. I'm not taking advantage of their insecurities to attract them. I'm not trying to remove their ability to say no. I'm not lying to them about my intentions or being purposefully vague about my ultimate desires.

Women are fine with systematic courtship, we aren't fine with you inventing a system to be a sexual assault artist and then claiming our problem is we just don't like it when the magic is taken out of dating.

SyrusDrake · 2023-04-18T15:59:01+00:00

In my experience, few to no people have any issues with the general ideas of the Redpill. Some people might consider it to be unnecessary, not recognizing the conscious effort that might go into finding a partner. But nobody is opposed to it because it doesn't fit their romanticized world view or anything.

What does make people oppose the Redpill is that most of the advice is worded in completely psychotic ways. Redpillers will write shit like "the female's child-like brain is simple and predictable, use advanced manipulating techniques in the mental war and your reward will be sexual gratification" and then pretend like the world opposes self-improvement for men...
Redpillers see romantic or sexual relationships through a lens of subjugation, there are victors and losers, everyone nefariously wants something that the other side doesn't. Men want to get laid, women want to withhold sex. If sex happens, the man wins and the woman loses, because there's no way she could want sex. If no sex happens, the woman successfully defended herself against the machinations of the man. It's a completely insane world view. Nobody is against the "become a better man" or the "relationships take effort" parts.

MajesticMaple · 2023-04-18T02:56:58+00:00

instead of just doing a BP 'spray and pray'.

Firstly self improvement isnt a "red pill" idea, lots of regular non redpill people work on themselves and do things to be more attractive. The vast majority do actually, very few people rely on "magic".

It has nothing to do with demystifying dating. Some people have found that they are happier to just look for someone who likes them for who they are today instead of changing into something else. That when they tried changing, they were less happy as the new person they became even if dating was easier, so it wasn't worth it. That's why people say shit like "be yourself" in this type of context. That's not really a right or wrong thing, it's not even really dating advice, they recommend it to others because they found it made them happier. Usually it's in the context of having a nerdy hobby or something.

JNRoberts42 · 2023-04-18T12:42:14+00:00

Nope. It’s because the same man approaches 100 strangers based on nothing other than their appearance and he “falls in love with” the first one who says yes.

It isn’t only because he’s a nuisance, it’s also because any woman will do. Relentless approaches demonstrate that he doesn’t care at all about who a woman is, he cares how she looks.

januaryphilosopher · 2023-04-18T10:05:05+00:00

A systematic approach to anything that significantly varies (like people) is going to result in worse performance in any particular case. If you're just acting as the average of what others like all the time, you won't find anyone whose quirks fit nicely with yours and you won't be able to respond to all the ways they fall outside of the average. You also must rely on the assumption that people are just interchangeable which is going to destroy any sense of love for or caring about your partner in particular. Things don't magically happen and most people are going to need to put in effort to find and keep relationships but that effort should be tailored to the individual.

Lift_and_Lurk · 2023-04-18T12:55:54+00:00

There already is a system in place, it just doesn’t work exactly one way for everyone. Some people do great on OLD. Some do great in bars and clubs, some do great in meeting random people. MOST do great in friendly group settings where they either get introduced by friend or a couple friends become more than friends after hanging out a lot. Some are great at a bunch of them. Some are only good at one or two.

THAT IS THE SYSTEM.

Rp acts like they have a “secret knowledge” that will “unlock a cheat code”. It doesn’t. All RP does is get dudes online to spend a bunch of time talking about the RP.

OpticalEpilepsy · 2023-04-18T05:39:32+00:00

No because a 1/10 that is tricking women into thinking he is a 5/10 is still a 1/10 so it's the scamming that's the problem

Hosj_Karp · 2023-04-18T06:14:36+00:00

I'm not anti red pill because I'm anti-systematizing, I'm anti red pill because its just schizo nonsense poorly supported by empirical evidence that's more or less just astrology for men.

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Thekurdishprince · 2023-04-18T12:05:04+00:00

social_mule · 2023-04-19T17:01:48+00:00

Yes. I remember when Penn and Teller first started out and a lot of the other magicians didn't like them because they exposed how all the tricks were done to the audience.

A lot of old school professional wrestlers feel the same way about Vince McMahon because he exposed the wrestling business.

Title	Q4All Does the BP hate the idea of systematic approaches working because they destroy the idea of things just magically happening?
Author	kayos63
Upvotes	26
Comments	152
Date	April 18, 2023 2:12 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/12q6if4/q4all_does_the_bp_hate_the_idea_of_systematic/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/q4all-does-the-bp-hate-the-idea-of-systematic.1214612 https://theredarchive.com/post/1214612

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