Is Online Dating Destroy Prospects for Average Guys?

hermit087 · 2014-12-21T23:04:38+00:00

Its not just online dating thats destroying prospects for average guys, night clubs and cell phones have the same effect. What all of these things have in common is that they increase the efficiency and convenience for women to hook up with the top 10%-20% males.

Modern technology has really worked against men as far as social status/sex life is concerned. Maybe future technologies like VR and male birth control will turn things around a bit though.

spinaroonie · 2014-12-21T23:13:50+00:00

After my move to the countryside, one of the relatively few dates I got was with an OK-looking girl, perhaps a 7 or 7.5 tops. For one of the less attractive girls I dated since I started gaming, she was very iffy and flaky before the date. When the date did happen, it went very well, yet she was strangely non-committal, then flaked from the next date and nexted me.

I wasn't sure why it happened. A couple of weeks later, I realized online is fairly popular in my new location, so I went online, and ran across her profile in one of the popular dating sites. She has good pictures that hide her flaws and emphasize her strengths, upgrading her looks to 8-9. I could tell she was very popular there, getting a ton of messages from attractive guys every day. Mystery solved.

The truth is that seduction is based on the exploitation of inefficiencies: guys don't approach enough, so an 8-9 can't get her equal, because her equal doesn't have the balls / gumption / resolve to approach her. So she goes with the less attractive guy who did.

Inefficiency presented opportunities for us less attractive guys to get laid far above our level of attractiveness, both qualitatively and quantitatively.

Online makes the dating market efficient, so the girl above doesn't have to settle for a less attractive guy. She can have her pick of guys at her own attraction level, or even higher if she is willing to settle for pure sex - which is exactly what most of us are after.

It's especially a problem for players like me, who get laid purely on balls, because balls mean nothing online. You don't need balls to send a message, so me and a guy who can't say hi to a stranger offline are put on equal footing. My advantage has been effectively neutralized. Online makes dating much easier for good looking guys, and cancels the advantage of ballsy guys who approach.

_JustKnight_ · 2014-12-21T21:22:47+00:00

It has already become mainstream for years. Especially among the younger crowd. It has essentially turned the 80/20 rule into 95/5.

BRENDORVEGAS · 2014-12-22T05:29:35+00:00

The future for our generation is gonna be a weird one.

VoidInvincible · 2014-12-22T05:52:23+00:00

POF & Tinder is kinda what led me to TRP. I noticed how absolutely shitty women can be. How narcissistic they are. Online dating has gotten me laid, but I don't recommend it unless you can commit to spending a shit ton of time messaging girls and getting the date, dealing with the mighty high bitch shield which is ever so present online. You'd quicker get laid by hitting a bar and finding the first drunk girl you see, to be honest. BPers would kill me for saying that, but hell, men have been dealt a shitty hand and have to do what they gotta do. Ethics out the window when it comes to the dating market.

detectivepayne · 2014-12-22T02:23:50+00:00

This fucking technology has been stealing jobs and now it's stealing girls. Fuck it!

RevDrStrangelove · 2014-12-21T20:57:07+00:00

"What % of single women today have online dating profiles?"

LOL.

What % of married/otherwise taken women have online profiles? More than you probably expect.

evilquesadilla · 2014-12-22T04:42:41+00:00

Women have always been flaky, online or not. And to expect sex on the first date is... well, I'm just going to chalk it up to I don't have enough game, but unless I'm hanging around a bar picking up last call chicks (which I don't like to do either), it doesn't happen very often with me.

As for women disappearing after the date, why not? Both sides can change their minds at any time. Happens all the time. Hell I've pulled the disappearing trick myself too.

The way you get around this is exactly the same way you get around any obstacle. You expect for it to happen and plan accordingly.

So, you multi-date. You don't get a number then babysit it until she changes her mind. You keep getting those numbers and keep going on dates with women, until YOU have a reason to stop, as in you decided to go exclusive with one of the women you are seeing. In the mean time, flake away. Women can be flaky, so can men, and it's all good, because we are all dating a bunch of other people.

And online dating... IMHO it is pretty lame for most guys. Some guys can pull it off, I can't, and I believe a lot of men can't. I never really did much with it when I was single.

I don't think online dating will ever trump real life dating. Online dating is just a way to meet someone. Eventually you have to meet in real life and your real life dating skills take over. As long as people get off their computers and go the gym, store, school, work, tennis, bars, you will be able to meet women the traditional way.

trpSenator · 2014-12-22T06:10:29+00:00

I always like to relate sales to game, because frankly, I think there is a good 99% overlap with the two. Whenever you hear sales advice, literally just look at it as game advice between genders and it will be just like listening to PUA or TRP.

That being said, online dating is the inside phones sales of the dating world. Outside sales are always easier and more effective. When you are talking to a person in person, you have the ability to judge and mold your pitch perfectly, because you are right there in front of them. You can read their face, their fashion, get an idea for what motivates them, what type of person they are... Meanwhile you are also able to mold your pitch into what they want motivates them, while selling yourself as a person by the way you talk, walk, and handle the discussion.

Meanwhile, inside phone sales is on the phone. There is a reason inside sales has to churn through a huge amount of numbers throughout the day: The person on the line has little reason to keep you around. They can easily ignore you because you're just a voice coming out of a box. They are harder to read, all you have on your side is the tone of their voice, how they react to what you say, and so on... You ONLY have your voice and conversation skills to sale the deal. They don't know how confident and relaxed you sitting there in your space. You have to be a master to convey it through only one channel.

That's internet dating. It's a grind. Only the best of the best excel on inside phone sales, but even then, they'd still do way better on the outside.

So yeah, forget online dating. You can get some bites and closes every now and then, but god damn is it so much easier in person. You know what my close rate on online dating is? I probably get a response from a good 10%, and will get a number from maybe half of those. It's terrible. Meanwhile, last night I only hit on a good 4 girls. 2 weren't interested (1 was REALLY not interested, but that's a story for another day) and 1 gave me her number and I'm currently too lazy to send a text back to (hot female retail worker who is into WoW--- So I'm playing very cautious here), and another hooked up with me at the end of the night even though I was a drunk wreck by that point... 50% close rate and I wasn't even trying.

Stay the fuck away from online dating. I honestly don't think it's "changed the game" too much, other than just opening up the amount of closing going on in the sexual marketplace, however, it's just a far harder game to master. It's far easier to just get "decent" at doing your outside sales, rather than having to become an "expert" at doing online sales.

TVTestPattern · 2014-12-21T21:57:58+00:00

Just a grammar correction...

You don't "hoe roads"

It's "a tough row to hoe", which is an old farming expression referring to planting crops by using a "hoe" to create a "row" you plant in.

watersign · 2014-12-21T22:11:35+00:00

online dating is mad superficial. i dont get girls to be honest, but im good looking (albeit a bit on the shorter side) and ive had a decent amount of luck with online dating..i dont use it anymore though because its a huge waste of time in the area that i live in. when i relocate i will probably get back into it.

StasisNation · 2014-12-22T09:56:40+00:00

Honestly? I'm a pretty average looking dude. Def overweight. I've pulled at least 7 of the 12 girls I've fucked off online sites.

I just constantly ask myself "How can I be the kind of guy this girl wants to fuck" over "How can I make this girl fuck me?"

And now I am that guy. Yday I pulled a 7/10 asian off Tinder, but 10/10 in the sack. We're meeting up when I can find time to get away from my girlfriend who's down living with me for two weeks. While I'm pulling an ex to come visit me.

Yes, I'm an asshole. Why do you think they come to me?

And for you blue pillers reading this, you're probably better looking than me to. You have no excuse not to be going out getting laid.

Cyralea · 2014-12-22T15:24:56+00:00

You know, I tested this. I've had a lot of success with online. I'm pretty good looking, so I chalked it up mostly to that. Usually get 8.5-9.0 on sites that rate people.

I have one buddy who has never really had much luck with chicks. Fun, extroverted guy, but complete average looks and gives off huge beta vibes, despite my best efforts to educate him. He agreed to letting me set up a profile for him, and even crafting a few openers.

I'll tell you, that was eye-opening. My response rate went from 50%+ to well under 10%. Might have been 5% or so, he sent a lot of messages. This is with very similar profile info.

If you're not in the top 20% in looks, online is a hard slog. You might find a good match, but your time is honestly better spent just approaching, your success rate will be much higher because chicks aren't as likely to write you off as they are online.

DolorousRedd · 2014-12-22T08:46:49+00:00

There was a good post in the last week about calling vs texting. Giving her a phone call sets you apart from the pack who are messaging her the same old stuff. In the same way, the more dudes who default to online dating to avoid approach anxiety, the more those of us with the sack to approach a woman in person become all the more attractive.

almostenough1 · 2014-12-22T05:20:43+00:00

You guys missed the golden age of online, when you could meet girls on myspace and find a way to have sex with them. When online was just taking off, girls were more realistic about standards.

That said, it was so much better in the 90s than it is now. The guys on average did not look as good because you could be average with a decent career and get alright looking women. A red pill dude with above average looks, regardless of race and height, would have killed it. We are simply victims to a bad time period but I continue to improve because when the time gets more favorable I will be ready.

LastRevision · 2014-12-22T01:02:35+00:00

I met my first online date in 2006 off of fucking MySpace of all places. All of her pictures were really cute and we got along really well. When she showed up she was easily 60lbs heavier than her pictures had shown, so I was polite and tried to have a pleasant time, but never saw her again.

I remember thinking, "this girl is insane! who would do that?! she must seriously be a lunatic!!!"

LOL

SQQQ · 2014-12-21T21:21:16+00:00

its not the online app is the family laws and feminism.

the laws and feminism made it possible, desirable, even profitable for women to pursue in promiscuous lifestyles.

even without online apps, they could have resorted to classifieds, BBS, bars or private clubs to get their alpha cock.

helpyaboy2 · 2014-12-22T02:06:40+00:00

If a guy really wanted to land a date, he'd just meet girls where he knows they flock at . In my case for my age(18-24), that includes classes, school clubs, parties, bars, yoga classes, etc.

I think the problem is a lot of guys are expecting girls to just fall down in front of them. Most girls dont initiate anything, so we have to grab our ball and do it.

[deleted] · 2014-12-22T18:04:09+00:00

[permanently deleted]

metallica11 · 2014-12-21T23:58:01+00:00

If online dating becomes any more mainstream, the sexual power play will converge to what it was 50,000 years ago - 100 people in a tribe and 1-2 guys fucking all the women, with the remainder of men tending to the tribe and help raising their offspring.

ETH_Zurich · Mon Dec 22 2:13:04 2014 UTC

Online is DEAD. D-E-A-D. The characterization that was highlighted by the OP is undoubtedly true. You have to very good looking, muscular, generally white, and display some DMV is your images. I've been on POF, OKC, Match, and Tinder. Nothing. Very few low quality bites that were not even worth my time.

I'm gonna stick to lifting and meeting women in real life. Online is not worth the hassle unless you embody the aforementioned traits.

R4F1 · 2014-12-22T03:28:40+00:00

Online dating artificially inflates a woman's SMV. Fat and ugly chicks who otherwise would have needed to put more effort into their personality to find a mate (or lose some weight?), can now simply register an account on a dating site and get tons of guys wanting to get their dicks wet. She now has an abundance of choices where otherwise she would have had none. It's also full of retards and psychos but makes it much harder to detect it.

sir_wankalot_here · 2014-12-22T03:47:14+00:00

OP is looking at thing backwards.He should ask the question. Why should the chick fuck him ? What does he have that is different from the rest.

beginner_ · 2014-12-22T08:36:23+00:00

Do you guys really think that high value males and females do online dating? I would agree with good-looking but not high-value. I mean wouldn't you inly consider it if you failed in "real-life"?

Note that I actually did online dating so I'm disqualifying myself with this comment but I'm self-aware enough to know that I wasn't high-value back then.

And I think one needs to differentiate between free hookup-services (tinder) and costly "online dating services" like match.com that usually include some kind of psychology test to find best matching partners.

ChaoticReaper · 2014-12-22T00:38:31+00:00

Bros reading this makes me want to lift nonstop

Locastor · 2014-12-22T05:01:57+00:00

Yes, but consider...

...lifting 0.5x/0.9x/1.2x/1.6x bodyweight for Press/Bench/Squat/Dead

...driving your own car

...dressing like an adult

...curtailing your spending to essentials and those luxuries which provide maximal psychic gratification

...and, most importantly, treating women like sexual human mortals instead of chaste untouchable Goddesses

will place you far and away above the "Average guy".

GuitarHero07 · 2014-12-21T20:59:26+00:00

There tends to be less flakiness when you meet women in the real world. Online "dating" is mostly for pump and dumps. You're not going to find a lot of LTR material on Tinder, POF and OKC. Yes most single women are flooded with options online, but having the balls to approach and ask her out in the real world will set you apart from the rest.

KilledBatman · 2014-12-22T13:19:14+00:00

Was think about this the other day. The time has come for us to upgrade our notion of what is considered cheating. Say a guy has a girlfriend on Twitter, IG, etc., and she gets all of these DM's from guys all over the world everyday. That is a form of CHEATING.

ostroman1989 · 2014-12-22T01:54:23+00:00

OP can always improve his looks and lifestyle facade, doesn't change the dancing monkey dynamic. being a ballsy dickhead is just one monkey dance move that made all the shy but better looking guys lack options, now the balance changed, who wins? whoever body and mind is built around the male goal post. , what does anyone get out of it? noone knows.

maybe after 20 years of korea on stemcells tier cosmetics and VR this dynamic will soften. most of us will live to see it.

on the other hand, the validation machine runs on those 80% who maintain all the logistics if more guys woke up and swallowed the pill things would change.

Vengefullyspiteful · 2014-12-22T06:08:14+00:00

Mention this very truth at that Hamsterdam and Hamsterville subs. Aka 2X and Ask hamster, and you be labelled as a nut job, neck bearded virgin. I just love how strong their denial actually is.

anonlymouse · 2014-12-22T06:13:04+00:00

A 1000 rejections in the real world would cripple a man

Pretty sure RSDTyler has been rejected more than 100 times by now.

[deleted] · 2014-12-22T18:02:07+00:00

Most women I know still don't do online dating.. But yeah I get your point. One chick who hangs out with my friends is pretty busted (I'd say she's a 3 or 4 on a good day).. This chick gets dates on tinder with guys who are better looking than me. I would literally want to brush my teeth immediately after kissing this chick too.

There's just a lot of thirsty spineless men out there who will settle for trash. Kind of sad.

causemose · 2014-12-22T18:57:44+00:00

dude if I got rejected 1000 times in the real world I would literally have become grand-master-pimp-extraordinaire from trial and error.

Also, online dating is already mainstream.

ibuprofiend · 2014-12-21T23:25:08+00:00

Men are as faithful as their options.

Disagree with this. Most guys have some sense of loyalty, integrity, etc. We're not naturally hypergamous.

bobolino59 · 2014-12-22T09:33:22+00:00

Who says its a bad thing though?? I mean sure from a social point of view you create a weaker society BUT Mother Nature always wins in the end! Is this not the best genes being passed on faster and the worst genes being eliminated faster? I find it fascinating that tech can accelerate evolution!

Oakland_dude · 2014-12-22T09:39:23+00:00

This is a weak, defeatist point of view. Try not to focus on the forces working against you. Build on your strengths. It's easy to make excuses. How about creating a strategy that works for you specifically? How about you quit looking for excuses? Look to capitalize on your strengths. You have strengths, I promise.

Vigilantica · 2014-12-22T15:02:36+00:00

I was probably BORN red pill, long before the phrase was even invented (we had a world before that movie, you know that?) and it's nothing new at all that females are flaky, picky and cocky. Man up, have some dignity, and flake'em back. If you can win it all, all the better. If you're about to lose anyway, at least go down with your colors waving proud in the wind.

SwissPablo · 2014-12-22T18:19:01+00:00

If most women on dating sites are vying for the attention of the top 10-20% on dating sites, it's no wonder these guys aren't committing. The idea of anyone finding a partner for a committed LTR via online dating is naive. If you're not in the top 10-20% of men, you may as well not bother.

AFPJ · 2014-12-23T05:53:03+00:00

Women have always gone after the top guy they've access to. Now that the average slut can talk to top 1-5% of men online / in clubs the average guy is fucked. Tinder is the best shit ever, 10-15min to find a random 7+ hookup.

HelloJapan1 · 2014-12-23T17:12:06+00:00

solution: Refuse to be average!

MartialWay · 2014-12-24T02:02:00+00:00

Online dating is a boon for guys who fit the media-promulgated aesthetic ideal (tall, muscular, white).

Then start lifting weights.

PlusGoody · 2014-12-21T21:23:14+00:00

Yes.

Solution: don't be average.

Above-average guys do amazingly well in online dating.

OblongShlong · 2014-12-22T17:32:27+00:00

Another online dating whine thread I see. We get it already. Instead of coming here hoping for someone to validate your shortcomings, get out there and up your fucking game.

SupALupRT · 2014-12-21T22:58:25+00:00

no. average guys can quit being average by just hitting on girls in actual life. It actually thins the competition.

Title	Is Online Dating Destroy Prospects for Average Guys?
Author	spinaroonie
Upvotes	107
Comments	182
Date	December 21, 2014 8:53 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/2q02lx/is_online_dating_destroy_prospects_for_average/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/is-online-dating-destroy-prospects-for-average.26763 https://theredarchive.com/post/26763

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