The Male Wall

ChristopherBurr · 2015-05-04T14:16:06+00:00

45 year old guy here. Married with 2 kids. TRP for me, is a way of life.

In terms of my relationship with my wife, I'm having a happy healthy relationship. It wouldn't be possible if I kept failing shit tests, let myself be manipulated through my dick or let my self become beta. My wife respects me.
Career wise - I work hard and make good money, but it's because of my willingness to constantly improve my skills and get better at what I do. I've picked up a graduate degree and am thinking about going back two days a week for a second one.
health - I could stand to lose a few pounds, but I'm at the gym three or four days a week before work, and I'm generally healthy. When I lose the few pounds I'll even be better off.

TRP is about constantly improving and respecting yourself enough to not let anyone walk all over you. An easy way to think of it is that you come into this world with only your mind and your body. If you take excellent care of both of those things, everything else in your life will fall into place

U_Lika_Da_Tomato · 2015-05-04T14:00:51+00:00

I am closing in on 40 and am currently single, never been married, no kids. I am not a big proponent to the RedPill theory, but I do believe there is a lot of undeniable truths being laid down here that, in other forums, are viewed as snake oil. So, I come to this sub with the mindset of taking what I find valuable and using it in my day to day and leaving the "bros before hoes" circle-jerk that sometimes goes on in this sub.

Ultimately, it is your life. Do whatever the fuck makes you happy. I have many friends who live, what I call, the fabricated lifestyle that you speak of; go to school, find a job, find a wife, buy a house, have kids...etc. This is how our society seems to define success. It's bullshit. It's your fucking life, define success however you see fit. If you want to spend your life chasing 20 something's at bars, whatever. If you want to get married, have kids, blahblahblah...whatever. This sub shouldn't be a place where you come to seek validation or praise because that way lies madness.

To respond to your question about what to do around the age of 40-50, I say this. As you grow older your interests, hopefully, change. I do not go to clubs to pick up early 20 somethings that are pounding down Jaeger bombs. I have no interest in doing so. Yet, I still get more ass than a toilet seat. I pick up women from 25-50 yrs old using techniques that I learned from sources like TRP and from techniques I learned from experience throughout my day to day. I travel, I have great friends who share common interests, I learn new things and pick up new hobbies. In short, I believe that if you live a life that is authentic to you, at all costs, you will not have any trouble surrounding yourself with like-minded people and thereby leading a life that doesn't need to be justified on the interwebs.

NeoreactionSafe · 2015-05-04T13:36:53+00:00

54 years old.

Yeah you don't seek needy situations at my age.

The idea of needing "love" seems so pathetic it's not even considered.

Just enjoy life... enjoy health as much as possible.

Find fun situations. I like festivals in summer. There are always fun ways to live your life at any age.

At my age you have to think back 20 years or more for the last truly Beta emotion.

scottishredpill · 2015-05-04T13:26:21+00:00

My personal end game is marriage and kids. For me, TRP helps level the playing field when this is your end goal, you are more aware of what it takes to keep a relationship ticking over. I've just ended an LTR, and know pretty much why it went the way it did, and how to resolve it in the future.

Rational Male has an essay about this: http://therationalmale.com/2011/09/12/the-myth-of-the-lonely-old-man/

Merica911 · 2015-05-04T14:53:15+00:00

Understand that marriage is more for a financial & religious cause, not grantee old age happiness.

Understand that many 3rd world countries, people (couples) don't get married because they don't have any money yet they're together for quite some time.

If a girl is really your "down ass chick", marriage doesn't mean anything.

vengefully_yours · 2015-05-04T17:41:34+00:00

I'm mid 40s, yeah we strike out occasionally, but I have a positive win vs loss record with 18 to 31, a dismal ratio with 32 to 39, and about even 40 up. Don't act old, don't try to be something you're not, own the gray you've earned, don't be fat, and it makes a huge difference when you packed on mass in your 20s. I have girls staring at my arms and chest all the time, because in my 20s I gained mass, lots of it. My beard is gray, the years are showing around my eyes, I have a belly, but I still get lots of attention from girls half my age. Every time I go somewhere.

Just being old doesn't mean shit. Frame is everything. I don't go to bars or clubs, that's the young guys scene. I pick them up in grocery stores, at Starbucks, driving around in my ratty, loud obnoxious, satin black hotrods, anywhere she is alone, can read my confident body language, and hear my deep gravely voice. I play to my strengths rather than trying to pick up a chick in a bar who is more concerned about keeping up appearances. When she is shopping she isn't concerned about what Chad Thundercock might think, she only knows she can get a ride on the vengeful fuck train, and they do.

Now if I looked like Louis CK or most of the fat out of shape, never lifted in their life guys my age, I could never bang a hotty half my age. Why? I wouldn't have the confidence required. I know I can, I don't just think I can. I know because I have, and it's actually easier now than it was 20 years ago. Being Louie and looking like him are two different things. Dude has to have game to get laid if he looks like that.

CopperFox3c · 2015-05-04T14:04:01+00:00

From all the terminology you use, it seems like you seek comfort in external validation:

a man settles down with a wife and kids, pays off the house, sends the kids to college, and spends the last decades of his life enjoying what he has built, and watching his kids grow up

I like the idea of retiring in my old age and just sharing my success with a family, offering advice and assistance to my children, etc

no one significant in your life

lonely older guys who are out of place

60 years old, with no wife, no kids, an empty house

Why is that? Why is your happiness externally defined? Why do you fear being alone?

The reality is that you were born alone and will die alone. In between, you can strive to live life to its fullest, do things the right way. People and things will come and go. But the one constant will be you and your principles. Live them, and live with no fear, of being alone or anything else. Life was made for the bold.

Cowards die many times before their death.

abdada · 2015-05-04T13:26:40+00:00

I'm in my 40s. Most of my peers are men older than me.

Let me give you a little secret: the reason the old dude approached the young hottie was because he knew he had a chance of success.

My "best friend" is 59. He is currently spinning two plates who are around 28ish and 34ish I would estimate. They are NUTS about him. He's a unicorn type Alpha Bucks with total frame control.

He crushes me in sports, too.

Old guys with well defined T levels do not suffer in the SMP. Yes, they get rejected more than when they were 30, but they get less rejected than a young schlub.

Edit: I've been divorce raped once but I likely will marry again (for kids and for old age). My doctor (80s Alpha Bucks) has had 5 wives. He laughs at young dudes who fear marriage over financial loss. Men can always make more money but ex-wives can never get better men.

GASTON_TONNERRECOQ · 2015-05-04T16:31:45+00:00

What is Red Pill about being 60 years old, with no wife, no kids, an empty house and lots of cool experiences but no one who cares to hear about it?

There are far more men in this position because they devoted their lives to their families, got divorced, got their kids turned against them by their ex-wives, and because of their previous familial devotion, they neglected old friends and forewent opportunities to make new ones.

The man who never had a family will, in most cases, have more money, be in better shape, have more friends, and will have had more fun by the time he is 60. It might be slightly weirder for a 21 year old to go out with a 54 year old than a 34 year old, but that's on her, and the 28 year old is up for it, because of her actual wall.

iamkarnath · 2015-05-04T15:00:44+00:00

I'm 50. Past BP'er, began the conversion process to RP about 2 years ago. I'm deeply involved in turning my entire life around, but mental frame is my main priority at this point. I do a LOT of meditation and yoga, and am transitioning from Krav to Brazilian JJ. At the moment, I don't have time for even 1 plate. (I have 3 kids and an unstable ex on top of all my stuff). However, when the time comes (and it will), I don't foresee any difficulty (or a "wall.")

I'm surrounded by young women at work and practice a lot of RP stuff while interacting with them. I'm not going to shit where I eat, but there is no doubt that ALL women dig a confident, fit, smart-ass male. I might not be banging 18 year-olds, but I will never lack for pussy.

Edit: Grammar

ShepherdTheRed · 2015-05-04T22:03:17+00:00

It sounds as though you really want that wife, kids, and all those things that come with a family life. It is possible to get married and make it work with the proper knowledge, experience, and careful selection of a suitable candidate, but not suggested because of the risks associated.

You get married and you will have to experience one or more of the following:

cuckolding
divorce
alimony
child support
loss of house and property
loss of custody and visitation rights for kids
dead bedroom
stay married with no major problems

I don't know about you, but I don't want to wager on a life of mediocrity or getting fucked that this particular dice roll has to offer.

As far as older men 40-50, there are plenty here that have a much different experience than what you described. That guy may not have much game, but then again you only saw one pick up attempt and no one is 100% all the time.

The single man's trp end game is getting to make his own. Do not forget that trp discusses women as a result of you and your success and whatever success truly means to you. You live for you. If you want to run your own company, retire to an island and drink cocktails with little umbrellas in them on the beach until you die, you can. If you want to write novels and bang your younger fans when you're 60, guess what? You can. Figure out what you don't have out of life and go get it. The possibilities and limitations are your imagination and your will power.

grewapair · 2015-05-04T23:01:22+00:00

This is like worrying at age 8 that you might be in your 20s without Hot Wheels toys.

If you do it right, You. Won't. Care.

ITworksGuys · 2015-05-05T05:31:13+00:00

I am married and have kids and have been a red piller before that was a term for it. Luckily I had an epiphany back in the 90's and realized that I didn't have to be some second class citizen, that what I wanted mattered. That I had value not defined by others.

My life is pretty great. My wife and I have sex often, she makes dinner, she doesn't shit test (well, not often).

There are no games. She knows that I don't put up with that shit and she knows I would be out the door. She talks shit about other girls beta husbands/boyfriends. She laughs about her friend who doesn't sleep with her husband and he sticks around.

We have our issues, but since she knows I don't put up with nonsense, we actually communicate and resolve them. We respect each other.

I would not even have met her if I was some blue pill guy. She was only in town for a couple days and was a friend of a friend. If I hadn't been right on top of it she would just be another missed opportunity.

A year later we were married, had a couple kids, now here we are.

The end game of TRP is to live life how you want it. Not to be shoehorned into some bullshit template.

Di-onysos · 2015-05-04T13:34:49+00:00

Get on TRT and GH replacement therapy, hit the male wall in your eighties.

VasiliyZaitzev · 2015-05-04T14:50:03+00:00

47 checking in. My regular plate is 22 and my side pieces range from 20 to 25.

Unless a man totally fucks up, as in "becomes a paraplegic" or blimps out, there's pretty much always going to be women available to him. You just have to position yourself the right way.

The number one thing is: Health. Don't let your body decline into a fat turd. The better your health is, the more you will enjoy life and, co-incidentally, the easier it will be to bed and enjoy women.

Play to your strengths. Stay around younger people, but don't try to be one. Is anything worse than some old guy trying to act like a 20 y.o.? He looks retarded. And he's never going to out 'bro' an actual 'bro'.

If you want to have a wife and kids, then have a wife and kids. Just don't complain about it, later, when it gets in the way of nailing plates.

Age is inevitable. Eventually, we will all grow old and die. Just make sure you're not on your death bed with a bunch of regrets that are really a question of how your own fears held you back.

anothercarguy · 2015-05-04T14:17:09+00:00

Disclaimer: Not a true believer in TRP, I aligned more with Married Redpill (... I was married)

My take which I have alluded to before and am working on a good definition for is that the beta mindset is drug seeking behavior with love as the drug. TRP is full of recovering addicts. That said, there are different takes for dealing with the addiction, some do their best to avoid it, some try to capitalize on it, some try to accept it as it is and enjoy it without being ruled by it. I make no judgements about the path people are on, we all have our reasons.

The avoidance people are the MGOTW and the aggressive plate spinners. They will enter into an LTR with one foot out the door, in this way they are protected. There are benefits to plates obviously with abundance mindset being chief among these but there is a line between commitment without dependance and avoidance of commitment (feel free to define commitment, that is for you).

The person trying to capitalize on the drug seeking behavior is the one who pushes for more "control" (for lack of a better term, 3 hours of sleep and all) of the relationship. I feel as these are the ones who will use dread almost constantly. It is still avoidant but here you have multiple partners trying for a full commitment with our TRP in the middle reaping the benefits without the risk of commitment.

Lastly is the acceptance path which is one I am striving for. For me this is best defined as a stable sexual friendship. You are not dependant on your partner though you can give emotional support and freely receive it as well. Plates are an option but are not a focus. Think Gene Simmons' relationship with Shannon Tweed. Of course she wants to get married but that isn't a necessity. Gene does what he does (did? IDK he's getting older) but that doesn't risk the relationship they have.

To the Male Wall. I think its more of a speed bump than a wall. Though SMV goes down the slope is different than for women. Our silver haired man might miss with a 20 something but will still score with a 30 something probably for the next 15 years; so SMV of 3 or so to the female SMV of 1 at the same age. So decline for sure but not the abruptness of the wall. There does need to be acceptance of the decline in SMV and a change in expectations but an older guy can still smash if he plays in his league. 40 something and divorced (smv 1.5) absolutely. 25 and cute (smv 8.5+) not so much.

FelixCopy · 2015-05-04T16:56:49+00:00

My father married and had kids and divorced when he was in his mid-late 30s. He then remained relatively single (dating constantly but never bringing them around the house) and met women through work, peers and friends. After his 50th birthday he began bringing ladies around (as his kids grew older he felt more comfortable with it).

He met some lookers off internet dating. Each one hotter than the last until he found one that put in as much effort as he'd liked, she was the hottest yet. They bought a house together and he's happier than ever, nearing 60.

He would tell me stories about how when he made internet dating profiles he would be bombarded with messages, much like 20-something chicks are now. He would seep through the messages, find the quality posts and learned to only meet them for coffee to feel out the crazy, after way too many bad experiences investing time (doubt he cared about dinner money).

Now, my father is a successful businessman, but wasn't always. He was in sales and eventually went into business with a partner and acquired a firm and grew it. He's also a family man and rides motorcycles. He would put a photo of his hobby, him in a suit, some family photo, in his profile and claimed this was his key to success. My dad is not physically fit and his current girlfriend is a 9 (adjusted for post wall 50).

His entire life post-marriage is TRP as fuck and aligns perfectly with this subreddit.

TheAureate · 2015-05-04T15:49:28+00:00

My first thought is that of the Hero's path. In every heroic tale that doesn't end up in a gruesome death, the hero sort of "retires" to a mentor position in which he raises up the next hero. That is what my end goal is. It is a dream of mine to start an academy for young men that teaches the reality of life, and how to succeed in it. It will teach all of the regular academic skills, but will also provide martial arts training, rhetorical opportunities, philosophy, and arts training. I want to make an entire generation of Renaissance men.

BrappZanigan · 2015-05-04T14:18:03+00:00

i think they should rename the wall to "the cliff". some women fall off a cliff and their physical appearance changes drastically. this doesnt happen to men. for the most part we get better with age and when we do start looking older its a gradual slope.

2015-05-04T16:10:47+00:00

Retirement: Learn English language skills. Write, write, write, and write some more. Publish. Make money. Keep writing and passing on all your information before you die.

Jaereth · 2015-05-04T16:20:59+00:00

If you get tired of whoring and want a single partner to grow old with, you can always get that too. There's a lot of discussion here about how to maintain a LTR. It's all the same principles anyway, women gonna woman no matter what the situation.

libelli · 2015-05-04T18:07:52+00:00

And I've seen so many silver-haired men with a spouse, darn unhappy. Happiness is not derived by another person, but from within yourself.

the_red_scimitar · 2015-05-04T18:29:17+00:00

Take heart, my friend. I am close to 60, and have multiple plates ranging from their 20's to 50's, all hot and very sexual. In fact, the youngest is the person I see the most of. And they all know about my other plates.

RP doesn't preclude happy LTRs at all (see The Rational Male book and blog - Rollo is married, and has been for a while, and writes about the use of RP to have a successful marriage).

And of course, one's SMV declines eventually (potentially much, much later for men). And the fact is, you may eventually need to somewhat lower your standards. BUT there is almost nothing that prevents an older man from being in better physical condition (in most ways that affect lifestyle) than many of the younger men. And there are women that prefer older men (they recognize the typical bullshit of the hungry hunter). And, factually, at that age, many men have built their financial security and are able to enjoy the freedom much more.

An older man can be fit, stylish (without looking like he's "dressing young", ugh), and very, very sexually interesting to women, and typically has a much broader age range to pull from. There are fantastically fit, sexually adventurous women in these older age ranges. I think yoga and pilates are the greatest thing for a post-wall woman, and some of them literally have the body of a 20 year old, and a very attractive face. There are many potential delights to share with such women.

Since I develop real relationships with people I see (I am openly non-monogamous, and prefer real friendship along with everything else), I have multiple people who "care to hear about it".

And, if a plate ascends to the relationship phase, we develop a very close intimacy. So far, honestly, age has never prevented me from having hot girlfriends, plates, etc.

And some older men are absolutely sought out. One date was a lifestyle submissive, and told me about "elite doms", whom women compete with to become the trainee/slave of. Getting into the fold means you will be trained to be an excellent sub. All of these men are older (even 70s - hers was). So there are niches that can be quite fun and sexual, if one is so inclined.

Hilarious_Haplogroup · 2015-05-05T13:22:36+00:00

You're going to get old, and you're going to suffer, and you will ultimately die...either alone or with someone. Given modern medical technology, you probably won't die suddenly of an accident or a quick illness...it will probably be a long, slow enfeeblement where your body and mind slowly rot away. Heart Disease treatment has made many advancements, and quite a few cancers have been treated or slowed down for its sufferers...not so the neuro-degenerative diseases: Alzheimer's Disease. Multiple Sclerosis. Parkinson's Disease.

In reference to "What is Red Pill about being 60 years old, with no wife, no kids, an empty house and lots of cool experiences but no one who cares to hear about it?"

The answer is that such a man can easily find someone who will care to hear about it. Even at 60. Both men and women crave being with other people who are grateful for this holiday on earth called LIFE and who strive to squeeze the most they can out of life with the faculties that they still possess.

Furthermore, he has enough time to himself to take the trips and enjoy the experiences that he wants to do on his own. When you are married, it's almost impossible to take a trip apart from your spouse. There are bound to be things you want to do that she doesn't...it's a double-edged sword, even in good marriages.

Regardless if you are at 16 or at 60, seize the day!

PinHunter65 · 2015-05-04T14:50:12+00:00

What happens? Let see here, you go out and enjoy all the money you saved.

edwardhwhite · 2015-05-04T13:34:14+00:00

I'm 46. I am nowhere near any wall.

monsieurhire2 · 2015-05-04T13:55:47+00:00

It's interesting how you derived a moral from a few isolated incidents. So the guy got rejected. So what. Clearly he felt confident enough to approach in the first place. That's probably because he occasionally succeeds, and also because he's man enough to endure the rejections.

London-Bananas · 2015-05-04T15:14:35+00:00

I'm mid twenties now, and I'm planning on having as much fun as I'm having now until my later thirties or early forties. Then I'll find a considerably younger woman and see what sticks for a couple of years, eventually have children with her. I really think late thirties is ideal because there's no sign of SMV drop yet, and you have some years to find out who is quality material to make a mother. Don't marry though, that's for chumps.

ostroman1989 · 2015-05-04T18:23:22+00:00

male "wall" would be where aging will be a significant problem exists. for a woman its easily defined, sagging, crows feet, etc. for a man not so.

I don't like the "love life" rationalization here, you can always have a drink and you can always get laid from a woman your age, until you enter fragility in your 70s/80s what does this mean exactly? if you are part of the demographic whos health and appearance declines faster than their desires you are fucked, depression is going to be severe , the rate only goes up nowdays.

but as for your physical well being and social value? totally different story. anyone over 30 years away from retirement should research aging very seriously , this is territory best navigated with a plan and a plan for maximal prevention at that.

MicroMinion · 2015-05-04T18:48:00+00:00

Not that old but there's always getting a nice youg foreign wife if you really want one.

SpawnQuixote · 2015-05-04T23:17:04+00:00

At 50 years old, you should have a boat, plane, car hobbies, etc. Nobody to give you shit. Do what you want. Go to the beach overnight, whatever.

You can't be a fat loser though.

Redpillc0re · 2015-05-04T23:42:01+00:00

I think you re wrong to be worried. "Men age like wine, women age like milk"; it's true. A man's life is an almost linear trajectory at every point of which he gains in value. Your co-worker didn't become unmarriageable at 50 , but also at 40 and 30 . The wall for women has a different nature. Also, you are wrong about greying guys, many (prob. the majority) of women love an older guy, sometimes so much older that you would consider them old as fuck.

Your question is more likely what happens to all people, men and women who are single later in life. That's a trend that's just gonna keep gaining speed. People want more individualism. Perhaps look at what northern europeans do (you will often hear about couples splitting after their kids are grown and left the nest). Times have changed, the image of the nagging old couple is not necessarily a stereotype to look up to.

blue_27 · 2015-05-04T23:43:30+00:00

Money bridges that gap for us.

stop_talking_ · 2015-05-05T00:31:30+00:00

The scarcity of quality long term relationships is women's problem, not ours. I'm not against a relationship as long as it doesn't come at the expense of my happiness. Right now women have set unrealistic terms and have priced themselves out of the market, so this is what life is for now. It is what it is

transientliving · 2015-05-05T00:53:00+00:00

There's no male wall. You simply have to change your strategy. If you've got white hair and you're still picking up randoms in a bar, you're probably fucking up (or, more specifically, you fucked up.) Shit, if worst comes to worst, you can always get yourself a sugarbaby - but that shouldn't even be necessary if you've done your job building your life up and becoming an interesting man.

scummcdirt · 2015-05-05T01:30:00+00:00

[permanently deleted]

watersign · 2015-05-05T02:16:45+00:00

that's why you need to bust your ass in your 20s and start saving money and or build means of income. married or not you need to plan for your future

awakenedmale · 2015-05-05T03:02:01+00:00

It is an excellent question. As a soon to be divorced 38 year old, it exercises my imagination at times.

I am by no means old enough to qualify answering your question.

I am getting back in shape. If an opportunity presents itself in the form of a woman who is actually worth it, and isn't a hoe in a circle of harpies, being in shape will boost my chances.

I know I will be a great Dad. That is something I feel in my bones.

However, what precisely defines a good husband is dependent on a lot lot more than being loyal, devoted, emotionally and physically available, and being a good provider. Unlike the BP will have you understand what what works.

I was all that and my marriage still failed. It takes two people to have a good marriage. I was lonely in my marriage long before she told me we were done. You see - women, at least the useless kind, have no compunction in staying in a marriage for as long it suits their purposes. Vows, loyalty, etc. mean nothing to them.

I don't buy into TRP philosophy wholesale. For instance, I have no interest in spinning plates, now, or ever. From an evolutionary perspective, a true TRP man in a world full of hoes (as ours nearly is) would die childless. He is no different from a beta from the middle ages who never got married. Ignoring the fact that having a bunch of one night stands is contrary to my sense of personal honor. I still have to respect myself.

My perspective is different because I was raised by a red pill Indian mother, who tried her best to make me a red pill man (without its dead end precepts). My mistake was my American wife. Lesson learned. Don't get involved with Western women. They are mostly hoes. I hate saying that because that is the common Indian stereotype, and there are many counter examples. Not that the new Indian woman is much better, but at least you have a chance that a larger number of them don't look at men merely as commodities to be used and discarded.

If I die single and childless, I will do so with grace. I will be lonely perhaps, but not unfulfilled. My life's work lies before me, and for a man, the honor involved in honest toil and a life justly lived, protecting the weak, modest charity towards the destitute, and self respect for an aging visage every morning, is the core essence of being a man.

The rest lies in God's very capable hands.

plentyoffishes · 2015-05-06T20:23:32+00:00

Great topic. Here's my story:

I'm 43, was married for 7 years, divorced at 37. I no longer believe in marriage or "together forever".

I didn't date a lot before I married at age 29. When I divorced, I thought I was too old to get the women I wanted. My post-marriage dating life was okay but very limited as my mind was limiting me.

Then I got a GF when I was 39, she was 26. She didn't have a care in the world about our age difference.

This woke me up to all the possibilities.

To make a long story short and to get back to the topic at hand:

-I've never wanted kids. I think this is a HUGE decision and most people make it very lightly or mess up birth control. Most think you will be lonely in your older days without children. And this, I believe, is a TERRIBLE reason to have kids.

-Loneliness is also a terrible reason to get married. When you are 40, you still want a lot of the things you wanted when you were 30. And yes, spinning plates is even easier at 40 than at 30. I for one I'm not really into spinning a lot of plates. I like my alone time, and I don't care to change people or disappoint, so I typically will have only 1-2 at a time.

Anyway, I think there's this illusion that getting married or locking down someone "for life" will solve problems later on of being lonely and "having someone to share your life with". You can find this at any time of your life and I truly believe it's better to move on from people after a while. "Together forever" is a fallacy we were sold, everyone changes, or at least should change, throughout their lives. I'm much different than I was 5 years ago. I didn't want to be with the same types of women then than I do now.

In 5 years I know I will have changed quite a bit again, and likely will not be wanting to be with the ones I find interesting and attractive now. Maybe that 5 years is 8 years or 10. But not expecting things to last "a lifetime" has been way healthier for me, and I recommend dropping the idea that you have to hit a wall at any time as a man.

symko · 2015-05-04T14:49:43+00:00

What male wall? I plan on going out at 65. Screw having grandkids and taking blood pressure medication. Leave getting old to women.

Black-Pill · 2015-05-04T18:48:23+00:00

I've said it before and I will say it again - The only Wall A Man Hits is the One at the Bottom of his Coffin

nothere_ · 2015-05-04T14:21:44+00:00

TRP may espouse disregarding marriage,The red pill is about deciding and managing your choice-to wed and start a fam or not.

red_gerb · 2015-05-04T17:58:57+00:00

I'm pushing 50. Married with 2 kids. TRP for me, is a necessity.

It helps me 'get my shit together', and survive the flak & fighters. I'm over enemy territory and I've got another 10 to get my oldest out of the nest. If my co-pilot wants to bail, that's her choice. Women are a side show IMO, that's part of Nature's Game. My children are what counts.

mryddlin · 2015-05-04T18:08:12+00:00

Sliver Fox is a thing, I'm positioning myself now for 20 years down the road.

Eventual it will go away, you can't beat entropy and all that. I'm open about my relationships and do have a primary though, I expect I will continue to for the long term.

Mostly I'm planning on having my own space for when I'm old.

kidjs · 2015-05-04T18:46:15+00:00

It is a very interesting topic. Amazing post, we need more of them here.

whisky1111 · 2015-05-04T19:28:59+00:00

I think something that TRP needs to address is how men handle loneliness. I never see that addressed here.

In fact, I see the opposite, men trying to avoid loneliness with a passion.

I think that the fear of loneliness hits men harder than anything else because we know that when we are alone that we are TRULY alone!

Women don't fear because they are seldom alone for long. There is always some thirsty dude coming along ready to give her a hit of validation no matter how obese or crazy she is. Plus women form better support networks amongst themselves even if it's just getting together to bitch and moan.

Something in my gut tells me that conquering fear of loneliness is the highest thing a man can do.

More important than lifting, dressing well, frame, money, all of it...

Because all of that is on the surface. But the abyss that is the fear of loneliness is deep inside you. It motivates you to do things that you wouldn't do otherwise if it wasn't there. But it's not necessarily a good type of motivation...

And really, bluepill or redpill we are all operating from that same point of reference.

An absolute fear of being alone.

We are just trying to fill the void in different ways.

The thing I'm working on now is taming the void. I'm not sure it can ever be totally tamed but the more comfortable I get with it the less I feel the need to put all this effort into women.

I don't feel that any man can get to IDGAF unless he tames that void inside himself first.

H3lius · 2015-05-04T20:02:41+00:00

What's funny is the guy in your example isn't a good example. First, as depressing as this might seem, you're still thinking that all of those things are necessary to be happy and letting the fear and learned helplessness, that you and everyone else seems to have, create doubt and speculation.

First, if you're 50 and at a bar hitting on younger chicks, you are in a scarcity mindset or just generally are ignorant of things like escorts, etc.

However, there is a big difference between choosing to be single at that age and being forced into it because of death, divorce, etc.

If you choose to not get married or find a partner, you should become resourceful (what TRP helps cultivate) and at 50 have your life filled with things to meet your needs.

If you go through divorce at that age, it's most likely because you weren't or didn't follow what TRP teaches and suggests. Of course, there are always exceptions to the rule... You're not hopeless and just need to adapt and learn to find what you're passionate about to fill your time. If you're bored and lonely, you're not doing something right.

dandar4600 · 2015-05-04T20:18:07+00:00

I discovered TRP while married with kids. My endgame is to use TRP to avoid dead bedroom. To that end I'd say that the red pill has been a giant fucking success.

TerriChris · 2015-05-04T21:43:32+00:00

For me TRP is how to live life with the highest understandings.

watersign · 2015-05-04T22:08:23+00:00

[permanently deleted]

nomorelulu · 2015-05-04T22:18:20+00:00

Brilliant thread and question. I have pondered this myself before. What is a man to do when he is nearing retirement and without a family? Regardless of what TRP has taught me, I still believe that starting a family and raising children is one of the most fulfilling things a human being can do. I don't really want to get married, but I do want at least one child. It's a pretty problematic situation.

favours_of_the_moon · 2015-05-04T22:43:58+00:00

If you make enough money, you can have as many plates as you want, so be successful.

Maybe when I retire, I'll smoke weed and play video games all day.

theultmatecad · 2015-05-05T01:06:06+00:00

I dont push marriage but IF you decide to go this route than the only chance of success is an RP marriage

Visit Married Red Pill to see how

UlyssesElias · 2015-05-05T03:46:23+00:00

Stories end when women and men are 35 years old. It's like there's an assumption that life ends at 35!

TruthOverLiez · 2015-05-05T05:18:02+00:00

The truth is majority of guys in TRP are settled by the time they reached their 50s.

scarletspider3 · 2015-05-05T06:17:08+00:00

I guess I see the wall differently. To me the wall has been something that both men and women go through together. I saw the wall as a turning point where the balance of power shifts and men gain power and women loss it. I think OP is just talking about old. When I get old I plan to upgrade the last plate standing to GF status (not legally married) and assume the throne of patriarch in a non-common law state where she can't divorce rape me no matter how hard she tries. I'll just laugh it off with some amused mastery and spend my last days teaching the youngins the art of RP while I drink until my liver finally bursts.

SenorSquiggles · 2015-05-05T06:28:53+00:00

I'm definitely new to TRP and have a long way to go but I am 45 and a whopping 5'7" and the girl I've been sleeping with is 22. My ex wife is 17 years younger than me.

At the end of the day a lot of it boils down to "whether you believe you can or can't, you're right."

I have more in common with younger girls and I look good for my age but I still have to make it happen. No one is throwing pussy at me. Hats off to the guy for having at least 1 cell in his body that believed he could do something most men his age fantasize about.

solmiler · 2015-05-05T07:11:26+00:00

[permanently deleted]

flexiblehold · 2015-05-05T17:19:25+00:00

Your premise assumes your conclusion, you are begging the question.

Just because you saw one gray-haired man denied doesn't mean the guy isn't getting laid to satisfaction, or at least laid every now and then. And it also isn't the case that married men in their 50s and 60s are being satisfied sexually, or in any other way.

The real question is what it means to be a man, something TRP does a good job of examining. My grandfather at 73 was built and active and good looking, and flirted openly with every woman he saw, sometimes grabbing their asses even right in front of my grandmother (who after 50+ years of marriage looked unfazed, though as any TRPer knows it probably made her more attracted to him that he puffed his alpha chest often).

Whether you are in a LTR with kids or a forever bachelor, you cease to become a man when you stop hunting, when you stop daring and willing and fighting and forging ahead. A resigned man is a neuter. Men, yes, on average become less attractive after a certain age, but not to the extent you express in the OP. A listless, fat, TV-watching 65-year old married man is not better than a 65-year old fit man with solid interests and hobbies and leisure time, who with some solid game and effort gets laid every now and then.

fhghg · 2015-05-05T21:02:27+00:00

The TRP old guy is the one on the piece of shit bicycle who comes riding into town at dawn from God knows where in the desert with his two dogs cruising by his side. The loser you saw in the bar was a loser.

confuseacatlmtd · 2015-05-05T06:17:29+00:00

This whole post is retarded. My grandpa is over 80. Guess what. He has a 60 year old gf. You don't need to keep dating 21 year olds dude. When you're 50, if you're in good shape, then you find a nice 40 year old to marry or just date.

Jesus, woman exist beyond the wall. Because eventually, WE hit the wall too. It's just a lot later.

notmyusualreddit · 2015-05-04T19:51:43+00:00

I'm only 30 but I've put more thought in this stuff than is probably healthy (I used to commute 3 hours a day total). I've had about 40 women now of several types so that my todo list is getting pretty short these days.

While I'm not a total MGTOW type yet, I'm almost there. I'm just tired of even caring about women and doing ANYTHING they want to do.

You're worried about old age and boredom or loneliness? As they say, if you're bored, thats because you're boring. Noticing the fact that I've started caring less about women now at 30, I'm almost EXCITED for reaching 50+ and not caring about women at all other than novelty once in a blue moon.

I'm excited for the week long endurance offroad motorcycle trip I'll take (San Diego to Cabo San Lucas via beachfront trails the entire way..), I'm excited for the amateur car trackdays and maybe even races I'll enter. I'm excited for the 3000 sq ft garage I'm going to have behind my house where I work an all my hobbies. I'm excited to show 25yr olds how to raceprep their motorcycle in my garage because they dont have the space to do it in at their place. I'm excited to take my boat out in every lake I hear is cool in any state I want to drive to.

If you are financially stable, and have hobbies you actually enjoy, life seems almost MORE fun around the male wall especially if you avoid one main woman. If you add a 'wife' to the above ideas, they get worse and more annoying, not better.

Remember, at 55 you're still able to easily find a 40 yr old woman to bang (god forbid you want to). She will be younger than most wives 55 yr olds have. So if its just sex, 55 yr old single men have better plates than most married 55 yr old men have wives. I personally think at 55 you can still get 30 yr old women for flings, judging from what Ive seen in my circles.

Stay healthy, fit, financially secure, and have some cool hobbies without being a tool. What more can you want from life? A wrinkly sidekick that nags you?

Scrotum1 · 2015-05-04T16:12:30+00:00

The old bull will always be replaced by the young bull.

imnotsupersure · 2015-05-04T22:37:44+00:00

The way I see it, you shouldn't seek out someone to go on vacations with when you're old. You shouldn't seek out a wife, that's what I don't understand about all these people using online dating to find a wife. If you want a family and a wife, that's your choice, but don't go forcing it. If one of your plates / girlfriends lines up with your beliefs and she fits the mold then LTR her maybe eventually wife her, whatever. The second you go out looking specifically for a wife you'll get burned.

scummcdirt · 2015-05-05T04:30:18+00:00

this could be interpreted a number of ways.

Just because he got rejected this one time, does not mean he will be rejected in the future, or was in the past.

Everyone who hits on girls, will be rejected at some point. its part of life. Its what you do next that determines your character.

So maybe he has not hit the wall, maybe he has climbed over it, and continues on, playing up his old man game to its maximum enjoyment. I mean technically its no different than fishing....

copralalic · 2015-05-04T21:04:59+00:00

If women are the only achievement you have in mind, your goals are too narrow.

I plan to build an empire. Warren Buffet (not my industry, but I can admire the fucker) is not sitting around wondering what to do with his time. Retirement is for quitters.

I have nieces and nephews that I love and that I can watch grow up. Sure, they're not mine, but I still love them and enjoy them.

Ko7a · 2015-05-04T21:15:20+00:00

I've been browsing and occasionally posting here for a year and a half, TRP saved me, it truly did. I'm never walked all over and my significant other, being lizard-brained to the max, hasn't so much as thought about cheating on me since I took her on exactly one year ago. You can be red pill and still have a spouse and contrary to popular RP'ers here, you don't have to have a cuckquean either. Red Pill to me is more of a 50's take on household relationships, there is a balance of dominance and traditions, you don't have to beat your fuckin' wife to get her to respect you, weak men do that.

Make yourself more valuable to others, don't let yourself get walked on, ever. Compromises in my relationship, things my SO doesn't like about me, I make her get used to. Things I don't like about her, I tell her to shape up or ship out. I am not tied down by marriage (thank fucking GOD for that), so I am prepared to leave in a moment's notice and she knows this full well. Not only do I tell her this once in a blue moon, but it's in my demeanor as well. I don't cuddle her, she cuddles me. I don't go to her for advice or suggestions, she comes to me with them. I walk away from her hormonal moments, she calls me 'rude' and I always respond with 'I'm not going to deal with it.' Not two minutes later she has always calmed down to my desired whim.

To be honest too, I don't want to be with her, she's got a great personality, she's funny, she has a fantastic smile and laugh, she's very Red Pill without even trying (conservative Catholic upbringing), a freak in the bed but a classy lady that never walks out of the house unpresentable. She's my dream girl... minus her brain. Things don't click for her and she has annoying anxiety issues that drive me up the wall. I deal with it, for now. I'd kind of like some advice from people here on what I should do.

What I've gathered from other comments on your story OP is that TRP's goal is to become Hugh Hefner.

BlaiseDB · 2015-05-07T02:25:57+00:00

The "male wall" sets in at about 50. At that point you will have difficulty cruising college girls. I am 48 and decided to wife-up with someone 14 years younger than me. I spent 4 years as a divorce attorney so I know what I am in for. I think I have chosen well but if it all goes to hell in a hand basket then plan B will be to move the Philippines or Thailand and drown my sorrows in a sea of LBFMs.

vicious_armbar · 2015-05-07T03:05:42+00:00

"An area that I feel hasn’t been explored thoroughly is what I am beginning to think of as a "Male Wall”. We will all reach a point where our SMV starts to decline and we will be too out of touch, granted we can delay it decades longer than women, but it will happen. We have all seen these lonely older guys who are out of place in the modern dating scene."

I thought this would be obvious to most people here. I'm in my early 30's and I still pull 18 and 19 year olds for same night lays due to: being in decent shape, making significantly more money then their 18 year old male peers, having decent game, and the fact that I have even more upside potential over the long term.

If I still want to bang cute 20 somethings by the time I'm in my 70's; after all you said there was a 50 year age gap, I'll have worked enough and saved enough to buy them. I know there are plenty of men who might say: "But she'll only want you for your money." To which I say: So what? I only want her for her beauty.

There are plenty of ways to do this. The most obvious is straight up prostitution. Which I don't recommend in the United States because It's illegal. But there is something to be said about certain countries in Europe where you can legally fuck a smoking hot 10 who's been already been screened for STI's for only $30.

If you live in the US you can find a "sugar baby". Or if you don't want to spend any money on those hoes you can always run sugar baby game.

You can also import hot 18-20 year olds from 3rd world countries to suck your cock and iron your socks with out getting married. I had a friend who worked as a baggage handler for the airlines and could arrange a certain number of free flights a year. He would fly over girls from Eastern Europe on tourists visas so he could fuck them for a couple of weeks before sending them home. They were more then happy to fuck him in exchange for a free trip to America.

I met another cute chick while I was getting my undergrad who was from Indonesia. It turns out her "sponsor" who she wasn't related to flew her over, set her up with a tourist visa, and paid her tuition. She had to work on the side to pay for housing and food costs; I'll let you guess what she had to do for him in return. ;-) She ended up graduating, marrying some beta she met at the university, and getting her citizenship. So it was beneficial to both parties involved.

Bringing over a hot young thing on a student visa is a lot cheaper then most guys realize. A round trip ticket to the Dominican Republic costs $200. If you have her living with you for a few weeks you'll only have to pay more for food, utilities, and a couple of weeks of English classes. Or if you don't want her at your house you can, pay for her ticket & tuition; then make her figure out the rest out herself. For there are plenty of beautiful women in 3rd world countries that would kill for the opportunity.

Also lets not forget that the male wall hits much later then the female wall; especially if you're successful. One of the guys that runs in my social circle is in his mid 50's, does enough cardio that he doesn't get fat, makes enough money to live an upper middle class lifestyle, and is dating a hot 18 year old redhead with a banging body. Jealous beta's like to comment that: "He only does so well with women because he has money". Again who cares? That's like saying that hot women: "Only do so well with guys because they're physically attractive."

LessASnowmanThanAGod · 2015-05-07T06:24:39+00:00

To quote Dune: “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

People look at scenarios from the outside and think they're worse than they are...especially when they're perpetually bombarded with societal messages that reinforce common notions. One can't let fear of such a thing influence them into bad decision-making. There is simply NOTHING worse than ending up financially and legally tied to someone who will actively diminish your happiness (and wealth).

Lazlo-Red · 2015-05-04T17:02:22+00:00

Plenty of over 50 guys can testify to an ample supply of young plates, 20 to 30 years younger, me included. That “old” guy was just hitting on some chic at the bar, so what. He probably had the same chance as a guy her age.

If you are scared that you will die old and lonely in your large house, get a better plan sucker!

Move into a retirement community and let everyone know you are a widower. Tell everyone you scattered your wife’s ashes at the same spot where you proposed, I would select a body of water. Make up a story about your kids living far away and you will score all the grandma and great-grandma ass in the joint, move out when you can no longer handle all the attention!

You will not be alone; the retirement communities are the college dorms for the aging and if you come up with a great story, you will be fine. Shit, you might even get married! Bahaha!

nzgs · 2015-05-04T18:08:46+00:00

I don't understand the topic. You make the assumption that someone should need a partner for retirement and vacations, when this isn't true, and you should know it isn't true being on here.

Men at that age should have many options in the form of hobbies and social circles. Ironically it tends to be marriage itself that destroys the aspirations of men as they age.

If you absolutely can't see yourself ever not needing a woman then you haven't swallowed the pill and you are still putting women on a pedestal.

PlanB_pedofile · 2015-05-04T18:41:38+00:00

The wall hits men at different ages. Don't think you can cheat death or avoid health problems.

I come from a family where no male has reached 70. Many pass before 60 and my dad passed at 55. Health be damned, heart disease is a bitch.

So say your clock expires at 55. Either by heart attack, car crash, or cancer. Do you want to be that guy never married no kids die alone? Wanna be spinning plates clear to your death bed?

Let me tell ya. Nobody gives a shit about the dead. When you die, you will be forgotten by everyone. Only ones that keep your memory going is your kids and family.

RickJamesBond · 2015-05-04T15:32:07+00:00

This subreddit isn't a good place for existential thought. If you're looking for meaning later in life I suggest finding a religion or a philosophy.

wuchtelkuchtel · 2015-05-04T16:04:10+00:00

Buy some hookers, problem solved!

Transmigratory · 2015-05-04T17:53:08+00:00

I guess if you're healthy, keep fit and (for those who can afford it) do a lot of cosmetic treatment, you could still keep it at.

However, I don't think the male wall is fiction. It probably does exist, I mean picture a scenario: there's a HB8+, and you're in your 50+ years, assuming you've got your shit together in terms of fitness etc. But to get her, you're competing with... you. Two versions of you competing for the same person, but the other you is in his 20s, perhaps 30s.

Who do you think is going to win, all things equal, the difference just being the age? If your immediate answer, without thinking, is the younger incarnation. That there, my friend means the male wall exists.

I understand this "having your shit together" notion. But part of being honest with ourselves, as TRP sells to us, is understanding what you can and can't do.

Perhaps at that age you can't go into bars or clubs and pick up like you used to. You'd probably have to rely more on persistence game (and targeting at the right time) and what not. Also consider that a young woman, unless you have such an amazing power over her, is not going to be able to cope with the fact that her friends will ridicule her for going with a so much older bloke relative to say the same bloke whose around the same age group.

For BB, it is a different story. However, for AF, lets think about it. Just for a fuck, we'd be super harsh and aim for the hottest girl we can find. Now back to the earlier example, for the AF scenario, whose likely to win at the drop of a hat (without making her overanalyse), the younger (20s, 30s) or older (40+) version of yourself?

IMO 20s is incredibly easy, but 30s is a unique Goldilocks zone where you can aim for just about anyone if you've got your shit together. Controlling for strict preferences, ofc.

GhostOfAladdin · 2015-05-04T19:41:35+00:00

Thanks. This post had me thinking.

I concluded that the male wall is when a male choses the BP way of life.

zephyrprime · 2015-05-04T15:36:45+00:00

The idea that you can spin plates forever is the new blue pill fantasy that has unfortunately infected /redpill. Even working at it hard most guys will never be charismatic enough and good looking enough to overcome the huge age gap that they have to deal with once they are in their 40s or 50s. Plus, who really wants to spin plates with some busted 30 something women who are bitter and come with tons of baggage?

The men at MGTOW are right about one thing - putting a lot of effort into chasing women isn't worth it. The reward is not worth the effort. This is coming from a guy who has been a pua for 8 years now. Eventually, the best way to lead your own life and not have women constantly be a drain on you is to just settle down into an LTR.

2015-05-04T18:39:02+00:00

I always took the approach of going out and finding a beautiful woman, and that was it. I played the social chameleon and their interests became my interests. I admit this is part of my personality, I am very eclectic in nature but quite a bit of that has to do with the blue pill mentality.

There are things I like to do and there are for sure differences in what I am passionate about. With the introduction of RP, this slowly created a separation between: date any girl that will date me to actually date a girl that mirrors my genuine interests.

I would always struggle with opening thinking, man how am I going to start a conversation, what am I going to say? right?

Well, as soon as I started coming from a point of abundance rather than desperation something changed. I don't know exactly where, why or how but I can tell you this...

Let's be realistic, some of TRP is a sheer volume game at some point simply because well, that's life. Women are gonna shit test, unrealistic expectations, fill in the blank, fill in the blank. For most people who don't have this knowledge base, like me in the past, would date or have a GF, or hook up once in a blue moon, if at all.

the idea of having these tools was great and yes it works and yes it increased my interaction rate, success rate, all of it, but again something changed. I don't know exactly where, why or how but I can tell you this...

I understood that if I started adding rules and regulations so to speak, my interaction, success rate, all that stuff would go down but I already know what it's like to have few women and even none so this idea did not scare me and all this stuff i learned is basically second nature.

So, I came up with my own little shit tests, needs, requirements, and so on for women. Most of this stuff is reactive as a defense against "the way women is" but I never really liked having a reactive mentality. I don't know if it is for sure, I'm sure there is some more elaboration on this somewhere here. What i wanted to do instead of being on the defensive is be on the offensive.

So, yes it limited the women I would get with significantly but I feel it filters out a lot of problematic women who i just don't flat out want to devote any time for.

So, I provide some of the shit testing and so on and go on the offensive and i find that women are pleasing in nature and if i come off as a man, which I am, they generally become the social chameleons now. I end up not dating women further due to them lying about their interests, qualities, employment, and so on.

My endgame is to have a family and have kids and the whole nine.....BUT on my terms. Each girl i date i get closer and closer i feel, the older i get, while still embodying these principals. Will it ultimately work out? I don't know. I think it's a great goal but I'm def not gonna settle. So i don't view it as a cyclical thing you do forever. If it doesn't happen I don't think I'm missing out I don't think i'll lose any value to my life, nor will I stop.

Title	The Male Wall
Author	dick_rabies
Upvotes	404
Comments	293
Date	May 4, 2015 1:15 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/34tk5j/the_male_wall/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/the-male-wall.32194 https://theredarchive.com/post/32194

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