The Alpha Bitch

Gold_Leaf_Initiative · 2012-04-05T03:45:17+00:00

[permanently deleted]

puaCurveBall · 2012-04-04T15:38:06+00:00

Better if you realize her act is sourced from insecurities and care for them rather than turn it confrontational, my 2 cents.

Play it from the frame "I realize you think you need to be confrontational with men / strangers, but I'm different and you can relax around me"

MensDatingTrend · 2012-04-04T16:43:20+00:00

This girl doesn't sound "alpha" at all.

IV-65536 · 2012-04-05T05:25:11+00:00

Man, I'm no expert, but this was kind of uncomfortable to read. I mean, it's good that you told her when she was being insulting, but I don't believe in a struggle for dominance. Relax and lead.

Your entire goal was to rip apart her confidence and seek status from you. Not engage and lead her.

You say you don't want to have sex with her and that she's a bitch, but I think it's kind of clear you actually do want her. She won't make you happy, but her status is a prize to you and you'd feel good about achieving her, because that means you climbed her tower (the same thing that those other guys were supposedly trying to do, imagine that). How do I know that? You used "cock block" which literally means nothing if you don't want sex, but you used it so you do want it from her. You consider her an alpha. You considered your egos to clash (clash generally means 2 things fighting for power). You wrote about how the group felt about your "two giant powers" in the same atmosphere. Your eye was clearly on her throughout the night. You even ended it with "might still have sex".

Really though, the thing I'm trying to get at is, was she really a bitch, or was she just awkward? I mean, if I walked up to you and said "Your technique, of ending questions with an upwards inflection is... interesting. It forces people to give you something." in a condescending way, I don't think you'd take it naturally. You also told her that she'll never have a genuine interaction ever. Man, really? I don't consider that "teasing" on your part, that just reads as downright insulting to me. I have to say though, good job on throwing out a cold read and getting into talking about relationships fast, that was actually good. But you approached it at an angle of she's running game on every guy with the ancient hidden Chinese scroll of freeze conversation and you are the Batman that figured her out, not that she's just weird and like that. The reason she talked about her 3 types of women was that you assumed she was confident, so she gave her opinion on confidence. Not that you figured her out.

I'm not totally defending her or totally attacking you. Maybe she's a bitch. Maybe she's awkward and you related that awkwardness to deliberate bitchiness. Just I see one side to the story in your "my X technique beat her Y technique because of human principles of Z" frame.

You totally gamed yourself into liking this girl. It's almost amusing.

technoSurrealist · 2012-04-05T02:11:36+00:00

Ironicat.jpg

Zosoer · 2012-04-05T21:15:22+00:00

So basically with the whole "putting the foot down" line and repeatedly calling her a bitch for the simple offense of trying to interact with you, you make this painfully clear that you are utterly sexist and unable to honestly engage with women who realize that do not make themselves subservient to you. Making it an "awesome story" is also a complete crock here - you made a gigantic effort to write about all this, so it is not like you were winning here, and clearly the fact that strong women exist bothers you...it bothered you so much you had to spend x amount of words proving that all strong women are just a facade, or something equally imbecilic.

FackingCanuck · 2012-04-05T15:55:48+00:00

Honestly it sounds like you instigated the bitchiness. You made a joke about being a garbageman that she didn't respond too, and then suddenly you felt like you needed to take her down a peg.

The thing is, it was kind of working for you. When she said:

"I think there are a couple types of women in the world. Insecure ones who suck up to men, insecure ones who manipulate men, and then ones who don't take any shit."

She was letting down her barriers and really explaining her outlook. She was qualifying your initial interaction by trying to explain that it's all just a shit test! Your response should have been to accept this qualification somehow. Tell her you like a challenge, or it's refreshing to see a confident woman who can bust your balls a bit because you're tired of picking up easy girls. Now, every time she gives you attitude or is non-responsive it's easy for you to maintain frame because you've told her that basically you find it funny that she thinks she can rattle you with this type of behavior and that she is basically playing into your game by doing it.

Instead of doing that though you basically just told her she was rude and poor mannered. It's not surprising then that she would be a bit hostile to you for the rest of the night. Even if I'm completely misreading this situation and she was being really bitchy, it's best not to confront it because you're so cool it's not worth your time to do. Maintain frame at all times, just smile and excuse yourself.

sithyiscool · 2012-04-04T18:10:01+00:00

My experience with Alpha Bitches (or more like insecure ppl with an overwhelming sense of entitlement):

Note: This type of person exists for both males and females. Its their hugely inflated ego that you have to work with.

This person has learned that if they push with enough force, they can do what they want most of the time, bc guys are constantly supplicating to them. Living in a fraternity house, these girls go from room to room demanding drinks. If you say, oh no more, they'll grab it anyways from the shelf.

No isn't a word that they hear much.

Most betas will crumble before the girl, give her what she wants, even if they hate they are doing it (I've seen guys buy drinks, food, tickets in hopes that they will get some).

Some ppl fight against this, and its easy to get pissed. Why should she get whatever she wants, rudely trampling everyone bc she founds it works? Shit, Ill give her some of her own medicine and call her out on her bullshit, shove it down her throat. However, this rarely works. Maybe, 1:1000 times the person actually has an epiphany. Maybe even days or years later.

Fighting against someone's huge ego by force or overtly talking about it will always force them to be defensive. I've been there.. Been pissed that this person, who could be SO AWESOME, SO REAL, has to have a shell over their true self.

What works? Being calm, humble, always smiling and being happy. What throws person with a huge ego off is when you remove their ego by taking down yours. Don't challenge them on their crap. Sure, you might call them out on being ridiculous, but then berating them on it will never work. Be happy, genuine, honest, smile and continue being fun. Take them off their guard by ignoring their attempts to inflate their ego.

You have to show them how to remove their ego by being real, over and over and over.

I can see this in my own male friend K. He is an awesome party dude, but always feels the need to be negative, AMOG, or talk himself up. Why? Because he believes he has to be this image of a cool dude he has for people to like him. So he might say a dick comment every once in a while, trying to bring others down so he can be boosted up. (At these times its really easy to get pissed, or crumble away).

You know what works? Keep your state up, brush it off/ignore maybe, and just keep adding value. Either they shift to being a cool real person, or everyone sees it as being a douche and they blow themself out.

Gold_Leaf_Initiative · 2012-04-04T20:20:59+00:00

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2012-04-04T19:11:29+00:00

This is a girl I do not want to have sex with.

might still have sex.

The day I start doing things I don't want to do for the sake of pussy is the day I go celibate.

rapolas · 2012-04-04T19:37:45+00:00

A question: why did you feel the need to confront her? Why not just ignore her? I get a feeling that she made you feel insecure, hence the attack. And in that sense, she won. I have often seen women use this tactic - if you become confrontational or angry, they feel that they have won, because they can control your emotions. The only way to win in this situation is to be impervious to others actions and to just laugh it off as you are above the situation.

TheComrades · 2012-04-04T16:47:03+00:00

A very nice read, I enjoyed it. Upvotes for you!

BallaAssSpoon · 2012-04-05T01:26:42+00:00

Doesn't sound to impressive, but still gave Twilight for a run bro! Keep it up!

J4CKJ4W · 2012-04-04T19:31:11+00:00

You said yourself that her bullshit can't be rewarded with sex. So don't have sex with her.

skcin7 · 2012-04-04T17:52:32+00:00

"It is better to dwell in the corner of the housetop, than with a brawling woman and in a wide house."

-Proverbs

yokhai · 2012-04-04T19:54:16+00:00

I love girls like this. Good job on handling her the way you did.

Some people just have a chip on their shoulder. Being an attractive female just allows her to get away with it.

brianwholivesnearby · 2012-04-04T22:58:47+00:00

i would be absofuckinlutely flabbergasted if you managed to turn that public humiliation into sex

kerosion · 2012-04-04T19:10:08+00:00

Is the silence after a response really that uncommon?

I remember hearing about it in an Intro to Psychology class, apparently it's commonly used by psychologists, cops, etc to elicit additional information. The idea is people become uncomfortable and continue to talk to fill the awkward silence.

I've noticed girls try this on me in the past. Given that "I'm going to be a psychologist!" tends to be a common fall-back in my area for girls that have absolutely no idea what they want to do with their lives, I would imagine using silence to pull more info would be pretty common. There's a ton of girls out there who have taken at least an Intro to Psych class, it would seem strange if silence as a means of pulling more information was uncommon.

I don't recall whether the technique is discussed or not in "Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion" by Richard Cialdini, but it seems like I remember a brief mention somewhere in there too.

reiduh · 2012-04-04T19:47:41+00:00

tl;dr:

She continued with a few more comments that went from questions to outright insults. At this point it wasn't funny or playful, it was just rude. So I called her out, once again.

"Do you know how to flirt without just being insulting?"

She goes "Wow, you're the one getting defensive."

"No, that move doesn't work on me." I announced in front of the group. The group fell silent. "You're making this not fun. This isn't about me. I'm comfortable with what I wear. But you're just being rude. You're hurling insults and it seems to me like nobody taught you how to flirt playfully. It's not fun. You're making this a poor experience."

She tried to open her mouth and say something, but I interrupted.

"Seriously, it's just not fun with you here."

But I read the entire thing

IAmTheOmNom · 2012-04-04T21:33:21+00:00

Ohh That is one technique I actually learned from my Mother, just waiting until the other one says anything.

I made a date today where, as she said she couldn't make it, I just told her "ok then" and waited ... after some seconds she said: "oh but I'd love to go out with you at another time." This is actually extremely helpful for official/work situations too ... just don't say anything until the other one budges first and makes the first step to a commitment, or reveals one of his secrets.

It's virtually the same thing as making staring contests. Last week fore example, there was a man in his 50ies sitting right across from me in the train. Everything about him said that he was a successful businessman and he started to run his alphaing routine on me by staring into my eyes. We stared in each others eyes for longer than one train station, then he laughed and commented on the situation. I think he did it deliberately, same as I, because it is just unnatural for a person to stare in another ones eyes for that long, damn my eyes already had become really dry and itchy. After that, you could see that his bodylanguage changed to being defensive and mine just stayed confident. But be warned, staring at someone deliberately when you know you wish to look away is not really a sign of inner strength, and other body language will give you away, if you don't feel comfortable. Also you never really know who you are staring at, they could just get violent.

Other than that. damn! You acted so confident and alpha. Really good going, I which I could be as cool as that. ;)

Ray_adverb12 · 2012-04-04T23:24:46+00:00

Men aren't attracted to men?

dickobags · 2012-04-04T16:59:28+00:00

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blahm3 · 2012-04-04T16:57:46+00:00

Hmmm to me seems like you called her out but lost in the long run. She won by getting a rise out of you and by you calling her out to the group almost made you the dick (though she deserved it) girls like that actually get me interested, it's the challenge I think :p

2012-04-04T18:00:10+00:00

I think you handled this pretty well. An alternative approach would be, instead of calling her out as having game, asking her why she's so quiet. She may not take the bait, but it might have put her in a defensive mode and gotten her to open up a little. (I would only have done this at the beginning, later she was just being a bitch and I would've responded the same way you did.)

I've been dating a girl recently who doesn't say much until you really get to know her. At first I felt a little anxiety in our interactions, like I'm supposed to entertain, but then I just said "I'm having a hard time reading you. You are really quiet." That opened her up a bit. She acknowledged it and, while not apologetic, admitted that it can make for relationship challenges. Which in turn made the conversation more personal.

2012-04-04T19:50:06+00:00

I think you played this beautifully... always maintaining your frame and sense of personal value no matter what she did. I think you were the first in a long time to call her on her shit, and she didn't know quite how to respond. Ive known a few like her, and called them out on it (never as well as you have) and they always seem to obsess over the incident later and that can either be a good thing or a bad thing.

Pires007 · 2012-04-04T21:46:52+00:00

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TosinAbasi · 2012-04-05T03:36:57+00:00

i think you handled that shit like a man

BreakTheWalls · 2012-04-04T17:21:32+00:00

I'm in Worcester county, and hang out around Boston. It seems like this false Alpha shit is the norm around here. Chicks think their 3 notches higher than they really are as a normal thing. I've had so many encounters with HB5-6's that make me just walk away because they act like they're 8-9's and it's not worth my time.

2012-04-05T01:45:47+00:00

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superchibisan2 · 2012-04-04T17:36:44+00:00

"I was wearing jeans, and a black button up shirt. "

Real classy party you got going on there. Not really a wonder why such an awful female was present.

I usually just sneak around those types as not to disturb their "perfect world"...

dickobags · 2012-04-04T20:32:55+00:00

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n0ggy · 2012-04-04T20:43:20+00:00

Nice to see that you didn't try to seduce someone who just isn't attractive just for the sake of seduction.

You actually took the time to talk to her. I wouldn't have been this patient. I would probably react like this if someone just acted like an asshole to me out of the blue.

dickobags · 2012-04-04T21:03:07+00:00

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mattmcegg · 2012-04-04T22:25:36+00:00

really? Tommy Hilfiger? is this 1997? girls like this suck.

batshit_lazy · 2012-04-04T23:13:18+00:00

That was a very good and interesting read, thank you!

Judging from the written dialog you seem to be very well-spoken - or perhaps it just seems that way because it's impossible to tell from the text if you were pausing to think and/or get your words right. Either that, or you just perfected the dialog while writing it up for the sake of readability.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to undermine you here, I'm just sorta.. fascinated. I can't express myself that well on the spot without needing a few seconds first. So.. which one is it? :)

Balloons_lol · 2012-04-04T23:53:10+00:00

Wouldn't it have been less energy consuming to just stop caring?

"Why do you look like you just came from a Tommy Hilfiger store?"

"Does it bother you? Do you really care that much about my clothes?"

2012-04-05T07:48:33+00:00

I find it funny that you didn't once mention her attractiveness level and I still imagined her as being 9+

Stupid brain, can't trust anything it says these days

blahm3 · 2012-04-04T16:47:44+00:00

I think you played your cards just right. I have had similar experiences. When a girl gets very insulting or confrontational it is not attractive and I do not reward them or put up with it.

psyocal · 2012-04-04T18:22:33+00:00

You're a great writer, my man. I actually envy your writing style. I was going to suggest that you start a blog after reading the 1st 2 paragraphs. Looking forward to more of your stories.

Mymicz1 · 2012-04-05T15:13:53+00:00

She thinks all men are assholes. Way to prove her right Hilfiger douchebag:-) next time dont dress like jersey shore if you cant take the joke.

SoHiSoFly · 2012-04-05T15:26:54+00:00

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2012-04-04T20:26:18+00:00

Whether or not her behavior was acceptable, you were way too confrontational here. What did you stand to gain by painting her into a corner? IMO, it would have been a better night if you just ignored her and kept on going.

I think the old phrase is "You can be right or you can be happy".

ohstrangeone · 2012-04-04T19:23:58+00:00

You handled it perfectly, seriously you could not have possibly handled it better. Excellent work. If more guys would react that way to women like that, this world would be a far, far better place.

CircadianRadian · 2012-04-04T21:36:05+00:00

too many men in this day and age settle for a woman's BS. great job on calling her out

ARealSocialIdiot · 2012-04-04T19:48:35+00:00

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RedErin · 2012-04-05T13:43:42+00:00

I really love your writing style and how to dive deep into the reasons of our social quirks. Hope to read more in future.

It would take really advanced game to keep this interaction positive. Her first line was a shit test that you kinda failed. And it went downhill from there. I was really disappointed that things went negative.

lysergiclove · 2012-04-04T20:27:33+00:00

Do you find slight over-dressing to help you with your game? They say you don't have to look nice to run game which is obviously true but personally I've always done it when I go out as well and find it to be helpful where I live. Some girls will question it as if it's unnecessary/stupid but it's so easy to turn around to the point where it's basically like peacocking in my opinion.

EDIT: And to be completely honest I just like dressing the way I do. I've done it even before picking up a PUA book lol.

theJMD · 2012-04-04T22:27:02+00:00

Coulda had a mean staring contest if you didn't reiterate yourself in the beginning there. Good on you for standing up to the she-devil tho.

Dred · 2012-04-05T00:09:45+00:00

I agree, Nothern girls (particularly North Eastern girls) tend to be that way. After being in the south for so long, I went home and my normal game was kaput as I was trying to accommodate for girls with attitudes such as this.

DoctorHandsome · 2012-04-05T00:12:17+00:00

this was really well written! felt like i was reading classic american literature, keep up the good stuff!

D3l7a3ch0 · 2012-04-05T01:03:37+00:00

dunno, man. I can't relate. I mean, I know what you're saying, and what you're describing... but when a woman rubs me the wrong way, I withdraw. silence without explaining herself would maybe get one comment like, "did the hamster fall off the wheel?", but after that, I would just turn around and REALLY have no intention of talking with her anymore.

I have made some epic withdrawals. we're talking like, within 3 seconds.

I am not the wuss she's looking for. bet she wants to be spanked, though.

JihadDerp · 2012-04-05T02:07:59+00:00

You were right to stand your ground and draw a line regarding your boundaries for acceptable behavior from a girl. BUT! Keep in mind... She was drunk.

Not that it makes her behavior acceptable, but I can't count on 5 hands the number of times I've gotten drunk and tried to be alpha only to come off as insulting or like a douche bag dick head. Of course, people call me out for it, and it's deserved.

Just saying, if she's not like that sober, then I can empathize with her colossal drunken fuck up haha.

dontmindmeimdrunk · 2012-04-04T17:43:45+00:00

Mind sharing the link to your blog?

DiscreteOpinion · 2012-04-04T19:41:31+00:00

North of Boston

I want to shake your hand.

SureillSingThat123 · 2012-04-04T23:53:48+00:00

I feel next time you should just move on and not waste your time. Seems like what could have been a nice night finding girls worthy of your energy and attention was wasted and instead you focused on some insecure cunt.

oconn · 2012-04-05T07:32:23+00:00

I've dealt with a few alpha girls before and from what I've seen there reactions to your game may be a bit different but often end up having the same attraction to you as a non alpha girl.

I once met up with 4-5 sorority girls at a bar one night for drinks, and after talking to a few of them I noticed one girl, we'll call Aly, was the alpha of the group. They would follow her around and agree with whatever she said. Aly would suggest for them to get drinks, and they would all happily agree and follow her to the bar.

After talking to a few other people I approached her and intro'd myself by asking what she was drinking with a big smile. Aly informed me it was a gin and tonic which was an easy in for me considering there one of my favorite drinks as well. The first thing I noticed was her unbreaking eye contact. I made sure during our conversation to maintain eye contact as long as she would. I said something like "I noticed your friends follow your lead a lot huh?" with a full smile. She look at me like I had said something inappropriate then softened a bit and conceded that it was true. She said, still unsure if she liked my comment, "I mean I guess, I'm the president of our sorority." I made a big sarcastic smile and said "ohhh I get it now, so your kind of the dictator of the group?" still maintaining eye contact a grinning. She gave me another more severe scowl and said "I'm not sure if I like you." Wow. Wasn't expecting that, typically I play a cocky funny kind of game and drop minor negs like that throughout with relative success. I was expecting something more on the lines "what?! No of course not" while we both laughed about it, but quickly realized that this game was not working on Aly.

In attempt to not have her gain the upper hand I responded with "Aly can't you take a joke, I'm not sure If I like you either." still maintaining a wide smile looking into her stone cold stare. After going back and fourth a few more times I realized it wasn't going to happen, made note to never try cocky funny with alpha girls, and proceeded to exit the conversation with Aly to hit on some other girls.

A few weeks go by and I see her around and start mild conversations but nothing serious. One night I'm talking to one of my friends and Aly comes up, I tell him about that night and joke about how she hates me. He said he was talking to her after that night and she told him she wanted to hook up with me that night and she was disappointed I didn't stick around to make a move. I'm surprised by this and realized that the negs did work but she just didn't react like a typical girl.

The next time I'm out I see Aly. I approach her and still play the cocky funny but dont drop any negs just too keep it smooth. She still kept her persona up but softened a bit and that night we went back to her place to "hang out". After which she promptly kicked me out. Classic.

TL;DR I play my normal cocky funny bit with alpha girl, she reacts badly so I get out of there. later find out she wanted to hookup so later did.

BeHonesttt · 2012-04-04T21:00:32+00:00

North of Boston here also.. we have a different breed of women, not to mention the alphas and betas... have you found any patterns with women from around here?

repsieximo · 2012-04-04T18:08:28+00:00

I think you are giving an stupid dumb bitch too much credit. her silence is only because she tries to be witty but obviously she can not be (the Tommy line was her best try, I believe, and she is pretty dumb) she is just a bad performer who tries to act a little different and not nice cause she think it is lame, it might actually be awesome in the bed ;) I think you should have not call her silence game that early to make her eager to come to fireplace. and in the fireplace I see her giving you some screwed compliment but you were not sure if she is the smart mean or not and destroyed the game. it's just an alternative take based on your story! I have not been there so you know better!

MonkeySteriods · 2012-04-04T21:55:17+00:00

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Fred_Flintstone · 2012-04-04T18:29:26+00:00

Fantastic read! Great job!

What I would have done:

When she did the stare-down I would have walked away laughing. When I next encountered her I would have asked her if she was OK, and if she had any problems or whether I had done anything to upset her. Her immaturity may then cause her to think she "won" and that you bent over backwards for her - but you/I didn't and you/I were simply being the alpha value-giver making sure everyone was OK having fun. If she interacts again then say "seriously, you said nothing is wrong, why still be standoffish?" - Immediately call out and don't ever lower to her level. It doesn't create attraction this way but it probably softens them up so you can DHV other ways.

Gosh, thats a boring approach. Its the safe alpha approach I use by default. In a club / place with less consequences I may go into hatred-seduction mode...

But I might be wrong. It seems that your way worked to a large extent. I can see that her manner bugged you; it she bugged me too! I was really hoping that when you finally called her out in public nobody would team up on you, and fortunately nobody did. The worst thing is when a rude girl continuously is a bitch, then you finally call her out and you get white knights and her girlfriends saying "hey! leave her alone!". Following "How to win friends and influence people" you could have, in the circle by the 'fire' done these steps:

Move towards her to talk to her in private
Crouch next to her in a non-permanent way, like you are about to get up any second. Have your body 90% facing her. Place one hand on shoulder and say: "Look, I can tell you aren't a mean person. There has been some kind of misunderstanding along the line. Lets forget about this".

If she warms up: Good, chat.

If she denies any wrongdoing and immediately attacked you then she has violated a social rule (you gave her the ultimate opportunity to save face), and you have full rights to call her out in public.

badjer1983 · 2012-04-04T22:24:44+00:00

Yawn

2012-04-05T04:07:04+00:00

You are a very good writer.

choc_is_back · 2012-04-05T10:31:35+00:00

There was a subtle game of chicken that nobody else was aware of, and I had just lost.

Haha, this is soooo recognizable. I lost that game a couple of times before I realized you can break trough it by just interrupting the pause and saying something even more teasing or whatnot.

Also, great that you didn't put up with that shit. Some people are just not fun and pride themselves on this "I don't care what people say about me, I just say what I want" thing, but in the end they are as insecure as the rest of them. Where's the value in not being liked by people anyway.

The answer is exactly what you did: don't give them your attention and give it to genuinely nice people instead.

D3l7a3ch0 · 2012-04-05T00:39:47+00:00

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2012-04-06T16:22:59+00:00

Edit 2: Well It looks like I'm famous! SRS has added me as a nut-case, but it doesn't look like a single one of them understand seddit's goals, nor have any of them demonstrated that they've read or comprehended this post. I think in honor of SRS, I'm going to post a special bonus story tomorrow

Yep. I'm sure you're goals of "Putting a woman in her place" are totally valid and not dehumanizing.

Title	The Alpha Bitch
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	322
Comments	273
Date	April 4, 2012 3:22 PM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/rsz8q/the_alpha_bitch/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/the-alpha-bitch.1330849 https://theredarchive.com/post/1330849

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