Where do foreveralone men come from?

ImportantWords · 2018-09-03T20:04:36+00:00

It’s relatively simple problem, tbh.

1) Lack of socialization. Sometime around puberty co-gendered groups begin to form. Males learn to interact with females and vice-versa. Hopefully by the time you are in your 20s, your groups are a solid mix of each. If you find the majority of your friends are of any specific gender, chances are you didn’t excel at this stage. You never learned what you needed to. This is true for incels, as well as “quirky” gamer girls who seem to just have male friends because they don’t get along with girls. Any bias is indicative of a problem, be it big or small.

2) Lack of access. If you aren’t friends with any girls, or friends with any boys that have friends who are girls, well then how do you expect to meet girls? There was a graph over on r/short a while ago, showing just how much better tall dudes have it over the short ones. And while substantial, no one is batting 1000. The truth is, you have to meet girls to eventually “get lucky”. If you don’t meet girls, it doesn’t matter what your (below average...) percentage is. Your always going to come up empty.

3) Desperation. Imagine this is your first “at bat” in over a year. Suddenly, you aren’t yourself. You aren’t the funny, interesting, smart kid that all your friends know. Your trying way to hard, doubling down on failure, and pushing way to hard. That’s a recipe for disaster.

4) Failure Cascade. Every time you try, you fail. Worse yet, every time anyone you know tries, they fail. Your a little cancerous cluster and none of you can crack the code. It looks helpless because everyone you know thinks it’s helpless too. None of them realize that they fucked up in step 1. Sooner or later, they break. And they quick. They give up because all hope looks lost.

5) Forever alone. Why try? Why embarrass yourself? There is obviously something you are missing. But you don’t know what it is. Your friends don’t know what it is. And you are bitter towards a society that offers no help.

There it is. Worse yet, most of these kids aren’t really even to blame. They come from a bad house hold, toxic parents with mental conditions (anxiety, depression). In the right circumstances, they could have been fine. But no one will ever forgive them for a sin that wasn’t there’s. No one will ever help them get pass whatever it is that is holding them up. And worse yet, most will never believe there exists a world outside the one they know. It’s tragic honestly. Like watching two cars about to collide at an intersection.

I always feel bad for these kids. But for a few key choices in my own life (putting down the vidya), I realize I could have been one. A lot of the kids I hung out with in high school are.

ThorLives · 2018-09-03T21:02:47+00:00

There are two different questions here: one is about "forever alone" men and the other is about the different ratios of single men and women which biases the dating market in favor of women. Forever alone men aren't forever alone simply because there's an oversupply of single men - though it does make things more difficult for them. Even if there were 150 women for every 100 men, there would still be some men who are "forever alone". The average university in the US has 58% female students, and, in spite of the ratios being in their favor, I'm sure there are men who spent four years there without a date.

As far as the ratio of single men and women:

- There are 105 boys born for every 100 females in the US (the ratios are even worse in China and India due to parents being more likely to abort girl fetuses). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_sex_ratio

- Men tend to marry and date younger women. For the first marriage, men are, on average, 2.5 years older than women. For men getting married a second or third time, the gap is likely larger - hence the term "trophy wife" where an older wealthy man marries a younger, prettier woman. This results in the "supply" of 20-something women getting used-up faster than the "supply" of 20-something men. On the other end of the age-range, it results in more single 50-something women than 50-something men. See the Jonathan Soma article about this: http://jonathansoma.com/singles/ Images: http://jonathansoma.com/singles/images/20-29-relative.png and http://jonathansoma.com/singles/images/50-59-relative.png ). It's also possible that those 50-something women aren't even interested in dating, so they're counted as "single" but they aren't really available.

- Men are more likely to want to get remarried than women (as you already mentioned).

- When couple has kids and gets divorced, the children are more likely to stay with the mother. As a result, the divorced man is in a better position to date than the single-mom, since he's not burdened with child-care throughout the day. Divorced women with kids are also devalued in the dating market much more than divorced men with kids. I'm not sure how "forever alone" men feel about dating women with kids, but they probably aren't happy about the idea. This has become an increasing problem as the number of children raised in single-parent households climbs. In the US, 26% of all children are in single-parent households, and around 75% of them are single-mothers, rather than single-dads.

- Interracial dating has some effect on this. Since black male-white female pairings are more common than black female-white male pairings. In effect, black men are using-up some of the "supply" of white women. I sometimes wonder where the black women are at, but since there's a high percentage of single black women with kids (55% of all black children are in single-parent households), it's possible that a portion of black women are too busy with children to get back out in the dating-pool. On the other hand, white male-asian female pairings are more common than asian male-white female pairings, so that helps reduce the supply of white males. The people who really gets screwed over by interracial dating isn't white men, but it's black women and asian men. Asian men are probably a portion of the "forever alone" men.

- Women are a lot more demanding in terms of "what's good enough". I know a lot of women who have really high standards and remain single because there's "no guys I'm attracted to" out there. Some women are pricing themselves out of the dating market, which leads men to fight over a smaller pool of available women.

- Men are also required to do much of the work of courtship. If a guy is too shy to ask a girl out, his love-life is severely handicapped. If a woman is too shy to ask out a man, her love-life will not be damaged to nearly the same extent. I think some "forever alone" men are either too shy around women, or got turned down so many times that they develop a sense of fatalism around it. Rejection hurts, and some men probably develop a sense of "If I don't ask her out, I'll still be alone, but if I do ask her out she'll reject me which will hurt emotionally, and I'll still be alone. I'll just skip asking her out at all to avoid the pain of rejection. It's the same result either way, and I'll end up alone in both cases."

- Women are generally more social than men, which leads to a disproportionate number of men with poor social skills needed to talk to women. This appears to be not just about culture, but it's an biological trait. I've even read about female-to-male transsexuals who said their verbal abilities declined once they started taking testosterone. I can't figure out why males wouldn't evolve to become verbal experts, since talking is so useful for getting women.

reluctantly_red · 2018-09-03T18:26:41+00:00

This is just a natural phenomenon. On almost every metric the male standard deviation is greater. Thus, it shouldn't surprise anyone that there will always be men at both ends of the bell curve.

goatismycopilot · 2018-09-03T18:40:16+00:00

Non western foreign guys plus western men with poor social skills often with accompanying mental health issues. Most of the western forever alones are poor at social interaction and have jobs where they are isolated if they have jobs at all and they avoid social opportunities.

Bronzehawkattack · 2018-09-03T20:00:35+00:00

They come from female mate selection. If you're a woman you have a much higher threshold for how unattractive you look before most men won't date you, if you're a man that threshold is much lower. Ugly men get the shaft until they become reliable beta bucks.

MMDT · 2018-09-03T19:15:16+00:00

It's simply that high status men are taking up several women for themselves

nomansweb · 2018-09-03T18:18:50+00:00

The age gap can play a role, as well as women spending less time being single between relationships, also soft harems (all of Chad's sidepieces think they're in an exclusive relationship with him), and finally immigrants (men who come from countries with a demographic male surplus or from countries that send lots of male migrant workers).

There is of course some hidden always-singleness among women as well, but they're less vocal online or still have casual sex so their singleness isn't as noticeable.

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2018-09-03T18:03:57+00:00

India

PearsOfWrath · 2018-09-03T21:05:48+00:00

There is almost no such thing as forever alone. Almost every man will find someone by 35.

DXBrigade · 2018-09-04T08:07:10+00:00

Plenty of women suffer from being lonely they just don't hangout on incel or foreveralone reddit.

YaAmar · 2018-09-04T09:18:49+00:00

From their obese mothers and from their insanely ulgy father's nutsack.

There are too many men in the world. There's like overall, global-wise, 200 million men more than there are women. There's even a book writen by a Chinese female author titled 'An excess male'' and it's hilarious, because in the book you follow the story of a young man whose greatest aspirations in life is to become the third male concubine in the male harem of the woman he's trying to get with.

Blame it on the selective termination of female fetuses by the hands of the dumb ass patriarchal civilizations that still exist on this planet to this day.

InformalCriticism · 2018-09-04T12:45:25+00:00

Stats don't explain it better than female nature does. Women would rather share the top males than pair off in their league. Old school science homework assignments reportedly revealed female infidelity, passing off another man's children as her husband's in depressing numbers. So much so that schools were asked to stop educating their children in that manner.

deepfatthinker92 · 2018-09-03T19:07:15+00:00

gamers who neglect social life for games, then discover they don't have a social life

Ed_BotheredToast · 2018-09-03T19:53:47+00:00

From short women who continue to procreate despite creating incels

SincereDiscussion · 2018-09-03T19:27:59+00:00

Divorce is more common now than it was then, so that is worth considering with regard to your argument re: "good old times".

I was going to write out a long series of premises with a conclusion, but it's completely unnecessary. It's just a long way of saying "supply and demand". Women are sexually selective and some men will inevitably not make the cut. Those men aren't going to be happy about it.

You can mitigate this with cultural standards/laws on sex and monogamy.

Descriptions of bottom tier men as being fat, lazy, losers are accurate, but I think they miss the point that even if all men got their shit together and improved their objective attractiveness, it wouldn't change supply and demand as much as people might expect.

MidnightRider00 · 2018-09-03T19:42:03+00:00

Not being married does not mean that the person is alone, or that it is a forever alone man. I would imagine that there is a greater variation in men: more of them either want to marry or do not want to, while women are likely more open to marriage. So, your statistic could be explained by the same man that is willing to marry once is also willing to marry twice, while women marry once and then do not want to do it again. But it does not mean that the men that never married were always alone or that the women who didn't marry again are alone now. Life does not need to lead to marriage

dudewheresmytest · 2018-09-04T15:16:08+00:00

They come from Pepperidge Farm.

In all seriousness there are always going to be loser men. There's a surplus of men and many women would rather live alone with cats than date these unattractive men. The good news is that we have so much entertainment to play around with we can just forget about our reproductive instincts.

EchoZeroEleven · 2018-09-03T21:28:30+00:00

Do you mean to say that some men won't get married, or are you referring to the "foreveralone" crowd?

They seem to mostly wrestle with low self-esteem, depression, anxiety, and other similar issues that hold them back from forming such relationships.

OfSpock · 2018-09-03T23:34:05+00:00

The Baby Boomers. I read a book once called "The Pig In The Python" which talks about the effect of having a generation which is bigger than the one before and after it.

One of the things it caused was caused was called the "Great Marriage Drought". Boomer men married women who were on average three years younger than themselves. There ended up being a lot of Boomer women who ended up old maids while their male equivalents married younger women, effectively 'stealing' women from younger cohorts.

We are still feeling the effect of this today. A 70 yo man has a 67 yo wife, a 67 yo man has a 64 yo wife...a 40yo has a 37 yo wife. Normally this balances out, but since there are more Boomers than Gen Xers... you do the math.

Willow-girl · 2018-09-04T17:28:33+00:00

They come from the generation that received participation trophies for just showing up.

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CapnRonRico · 2018-09-03T23:09:16+00:00

The law of averages is a bit like religion to me. There is just no acceptable reasoning for it but we just accept that 50% of the time heads will happen & 50% of the time tails will.

If you have a streak of 500 heads in a row then eventually the tails will catch up.

Yet how does the history of a coin toss matter?.

They say che chance is always 50/50 but that cannot be true if tails has fallen significantly more often then it will catch up.

tickledpic · 2018-09-04T01:58:19+00:00

Foreveralone and never married are hardly the same thing. Ones are most likely incels and the others can be guys that fuck every other day but choose not to marry.

PhotosyntheticChad · 2018-09-03T20:43:58+00:00

Well, that graph shows surplus young men and surplus older women, which is what you’d expect to be the case, as women’s SMV decreases much earlier and men’s peaks much later.

Where do foreveralone men come from?

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😘 come back when you manage to grow up and stop hating women.

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Title	Where do foreveralone men come from?
Author	filamilano
Upvotes	36
Comments	320
Date	September 3, 2018 5:57 PM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/9cnn6m/where_do_foreveralone_men_come_from/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/where-do-foreveralone-men-come-from.260943 https://theredarchive.com/post/260943