Child support at conception gaining support [Unborn Child Support Act]

kexavah558ask · 2023-12-14T18:16:58+00:00

This commentary is less about Red and Blue pill but the social contract in the USA as a whole:

This proposal would be broadly consistent with pro-life laws (which I challenge, but moving on), but even with them...

mothers have the right to relinquish their newborn's guard at birth. It'd be unfathomable to take this away, due to fears of infanticide.

Taking this in consideration, that father can be, against their will, demanded to pay child support is clearly discriminatory.

That men can be put in debtors' prison for not earning enough money in the USA seems absoutely medieval for people in the most of the rest of the developed world, with its broad welfare net, and most of the global south too, where poverty and adoption is very common, even if this be a source of shame. In European countries, at most, only income above the minimum wage can be taken by the state.

On top of that, that the state can impose expenses on parents beyond the very basics for survival is outrageous and anti-natalist. It's not acceptable that mandatory schooling be charged for; that wide living spaces be demanded (in Europe there's social housing and at edge cases kids get rehoused on the taxpayer dime); and neither is that healthcare deemed legally necessary by the state be charged to parents!

I'll go further and say that if the state extends mandatory schooling beyond the age when boys and girls are physically able to work and "marry", the least it can do to offset the antinatalist effects is to cover that portion of basic living expenses in tax cuts/welfare to parents throughout the years, but I'm opening another can of worms.

OkHoliday8798 · 2023-12-14T15:16:07+00:00

I like this idea. It’s only fair since red states are banning abortion, might as well make unborn child support a thing.

Redditcritic6666 · 2023-12-14T18:10:37+00:00

I actually don't mind the idea. In politics you gotta give a little to get a little and what the actual trade-off here is paternity test for child support at conception.

Demasii · 2023-12-14T17:10:48+00:00

This bill might make sense for pro-lifers but as a pro-choicer it gives men a valid reason to have a say in what happens to a women's body while pregnant.

Prenatal care is not just for the child. It's for the mother as well. She is responsible for her health. Any care the woman received before a miscarriage or birth is still recommended medical care.

It also create opportunities for fraud if women continue accepting payments after a miscarriage.

Savings_Builder_8449 · 2023-12-14T16:45:28+00:00

Why are you presenting them as two separate options. Child support should not exist without the ability to sue for damages in the case of paternity fraud. Tbh paternity fraud should also come with a criminal conviction.

dishonouronmycow · 2023-12-14T15:24:08+00:00

If they’re going to ban abortion then this is the only way. Hopefully women and their partners won’t be banned from going out of state if they still want access to one and won’t be prosecuted when they come back

abaxeron · 2023-12-14T20:14:32+00:00

My wild predictions:

No-one will notice or care that Option 2 puts men in a position where they have to prove their own innocence on the basis of sex; neither will a single woman be prosecuted for false accusation.

No-one will prosecute women for embezzlement if they decide to spend prenatal support on booze and parties instead of prenatal care; neither will any measures be put in place to restrict such embezzlement.

Appropriate-Ad-8030 · 2023-12-14T16:02:49+00:00

So glad I got my vasectomy….

No-Refrigerator3350 · 2023-12-15T00:16:08+00:00

If a fetus is a baby, then this makes sense.

Safinated · 2023-12-14T15:33:59+00:00

Child support already requires a paternity test if you’re not married. And if you’re married at the time of birth, you can revoke paternity by administering a test after the fact

threw352 · 2023-12-14T15:25:31+00:00

USA cannot bail out people dying of diabetes but will pay for this?

AbsolutelyNobody0 · 2023-12-14T20:09:30+00:00

This is a stupid legal nightmare. It's open to endless abuse.

KayRay1994 · 2023-12-14T15:34:28+00:00

I could actually see this being useful in cases where a woman genuinely doesn’t know who the father is, or the father denies that the child is his. Especially add to it that it primarily takes place in states where abortion is banned as well, I feel like this is the only way around it to at least lower the rate of single motherhood

FutureBannedAccount2 · 2023-12-14T16:39:47+00:00

AFAIK women can already sue for 50% of the medical cost involved with pregnancy if some is found to be the father.

I’m all for it but there’s a reason it’s only taking off in red states as you say. It’s a conflict of interest for the left/prochoice crowd. While this helps women, by implementing child support at conception it both identifies fetal personhood and provides rights to baby daddies, meaning this would be a step towards stricter abortion laws.

DaddysPrincesss26 · 2023-12-14T20:34:03+00:00

Oh God

ComfortableOk5003 · 2023-12-15T04:43:47+00:00

This is fucking bananas….but mandatory father testing is wrong apparently lol

Teflon08191 · 2023-12-14T18:14:31+00:00

I mean, if women's choice to abort is universally taken away from them then I'd have no qualms with men being financially obligated to the child upon conception provided that adequate checks and balances are implemented to ensure the money is strictly and solely used for the child's benefit.

jay10033 · 2023-12-14T16:31:14+00:00

If there is a miscarriage, does the alleged father get his money back, since the state is imposing child support obligations?

jay10033 · 2023-12-14T15:57:54+00:00

Option 1 - as long as states are funding it, this is a great idea.

Option 2 - terrible idea. While you can sue for damages, it ties up the court system, creates unnecessary costs to the plaintiff and even if a judgement is secured, there's no guarantee of payment. The state enforces the rights to collect child support, while this person will have to spend their own resources to collect a judgement. What should happen is a reverse support order, equal to the overpayment, enforced by the state with the same penalties enforced if child support wasn't paid (inability to get a passport/driver's license, jail time, etc).

Gladboys · 2023-12-14T15:26:26+00:00

Good, these poor single mother outcomes are objectively shit for society as a whole. I would prefer abortion be more available but if that’s not the case then this can do okay

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Cethlinnstooth · 2023-12-14T19:21:38+00:00

Well it's probably necessary if their laws are going to be regarding fetuses as having human rights. Babies have to eat and how the fetus eats is by having a mother who is fed, sheltered and in reasonable health.

Personally I'm fine with abortions and the fetus getting rights when it is birthed.

Agile_Celebration492 · 2023-12-15T11:49:31+00:00

Unpopular opinion but I think child support in general is fucking medieval. If I'm not taking care of my children, charge me with child neglect and give me a damn trial, but don't try to take money out of my pocket to pay a woman to take my children from me 🤷

tiddermacss · 2023-12-15T13:17:39+00:00

red state here I come..

Same_Comfortable_821 · 2023-12-15T13:58:48+00:00

BOTH parents should pay child support. Why only the paternal parent? That isn’t how it works in the USA.

Illustrious_Union602 · 2024-05-12T00:01:39+00:00

I have an idea! People can make sure they are with someone that they want to have a child with before having unprotected sex, and they can have their priorities in line by having a decent job or some form of income with health insurance instead of getting pregnant first and running to the local child services department to get paid. Call me crazy 🤪

Illustrious_Union602 · 2024-05-12T00:03:06+00:00

I can see it now. An influx of barefoot and pregnant women standing in line so they can get some money from their baby daddy to buy them some cigarettes

boom-wham-slam · 2023-12-14T15:57:31+00:00

It doesn't really make sense because you can't sue and recover damages from a broke person. So some girl says it's mine and she's broke and I pay her $300 a month for 9 months, now it pops out and it's not mine, thats $2700. Except she worked at taco bell and now she's quit because she just had a baby. How will I recover the $2700?

And is that really better for the child? Now the mom not only has no job and a baby to care for but she is in debt from someone who is now mad at her that she personally knows for trying to paternity fraud him. (Which isn't the same as a business debt, they send you letters, your neighbor who sues you acts like a jackass in part rightfully so every time you see them). And the real father is now unknown who knows who tf it is? Maybe she doesn't know. Maybe she thinks it's the ons who was on vacation... point being I'm not sure this is exactly best for the child.

sublimemongrel · 2023-12-14T21:46:43+00:00

Louisiana gov recently signed a law requiring bio dads to pay half the medical costs associated with the pregnancy and birth. A step forward, I guess, after that massive step backwards with Dobbs

No-You7911 · 2023-12-14T22:45:10+00:00

This is why I advocate vasectomy the day after graduating high school.

No-You7911 · 2023-12-14T22:46:08+00:00

This is why I advocate vasectomy the day after graduating high school. Men need to take control of their reproduction rights because no one else will.

Goyeyo565 · 2023-12-14T20:50:00+00:00

I think option 1 is the more sensible one since it wouldn't involve the courts as much as option 2.

I still think banning abortion is a terrible mistake but if that is the case then child support at conception makes sense if they can reliably ID who the father is.

MistyMaisel · 2023-12-14T16:01:57+00:00

I'm just curious why at conception?

Babies don't really need anything at conception from fathers. Is there a reason stated as to why not just at birth?

Not sure if for or against, just not sure as to why this is the line anyone cares to set.

YetAnotherCommenter · 2023-12-15T01:32:54+00:00

Its logically consistent with the premise that "life begins at conception" sure. If sperm + egg = immediate person, it immediately has rights.

That said, I hope laws like this drive more men towards a pro-choice position.

TWCDev · 2023-12-14T17:53:02+00:00

Not sure it benefits all children, honestly only a small number of children for women who outside of a relationship, know who their father is, and the father is someone who actually has any amount of excess income that can be drafted for child support.
I guess it satisfies puritan religious accountability more than it would to just spend money and resources on making sure everyone has good healthcare, especially when red states are so against entities like planned parenthood that help with prenatal care.
Sucks for the children, but glad some small number of women might get some financial support "prior" to the child being born.

Familiesarenations · 2023-12-16T00:27:40+00:00

I support this. Better the father pay for prenatal care for many reasons, not the least of all so that taxpayers don't have to.

Title	Child support at conception gaining support [Unborn Child Support Act]
Author	Jessica_Rabbit69
Upvotes	40
Comments	266
Date	December 14, 2023 3:13 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/18iaswa/child_support_at_conception_gaining_support/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/child-support-at-conception-gaining-support-unborn.1240751 https://theredarchive.com/post/1240751

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