Many people talk about toxic masculinity, but we rarely hear about toxic femininity.

Katlanika · 2024-01-09T09:10:52+00:00

Maybe there's no such thing as toxic masculinity or toxic femininity, maybe there's just people who are toxic. I see these terms thrown around all the time but I'm yet to meet a person in real life that has the traits to fit in either category.

But then I'm yet to meet people in real life that show any of the negative traits commonly discussed here.

Planthoe30 · 2024-01-09T08:38:51+00:00

I have a problem with the terms toxic masculinity/femininity mostly because I feel they are too vague to really mean anything. Sure you have laid out what you mean but I have heard people use the term toxic masculinity to describe almost any behavior they have experienced from men that was undesirable. The always changing meaning has absolutely confused the fuck out of me. Which is why I removed that phrase from my vocabulary completely. It just feels more efficient and effective to talk about specific behaviors.

I’m assuming when you talk about manipulative crying your meaning when the emotion isn’t genuine and there is some ulterior motive being accomplished. I’d consider that an outlier event because that is some psychopathic shit. If the outcome is that someone is “manipulated” because someone cannot regulate their emotions I don’t consider that person manipulative necessarily that sounds more like a mislabel. If I felt the need to cater to someone expressing emotions I felt were an over reaction I’d almost consider than a problem within myself, though in the case I’m married to that person I guess a certain level of empathy would be expected.

Bouldershoulders12 · 2024-01-09T08:10:04+00:00

No such thing as toxic masculinity.

If it was so “toxic” women wouldn’t be rewarding it

It’s just male nature and female nature. People just don’t like the truth because it shatters everything they grew up knowing was a lie

Safinated · 2024-01-09T15:21:06+00:00

That’s because toxic femininity mostly hurts women so who cares about that ?

Salt_Mathematician24 · 2024-01-09T15:28:53+00:00

Feminism is born out of criticism of toxic femininity, that would be traditional feminine expectations to one's own detriment, which would be the correct usage of the term in relation to toxic masculinity.

Suspicious_Glove7365 · 2024-01-09T17:12:21+00:00

“Women’s passivity in dating feeds men’s aggressiveness.”

Why not, “Men’s aggressiveness in dating feeds women’s passivity”?

mods_have_small_ween · 2024-01-09T20:02:11+00:00

All women use their femininity to manipulate men. Once you learn what constitutes manipulation, emotional abuse, etc, you will see women employ it everywhere in all capacities. Its very eye opening.

Sabrepill · 2024-01-10T02:09:06+00:00

Toxic femininity also includes false accusations, shaming, social destruction, character assassination, playing a victim, and so forth

avpd_girl · 2024-01-09T10:05:02+00:00

You think a man who beats his wife is in control of his emotions? You think men are never manipulative or controlling without being aggressive?

Neither toxic femininity or masculine is real. There are just toxic personality traits that both men and women can have.

SillyMushroomTip · 2024-01-10T17:53:24+00:00

Because women always get a free pass for their shitty behavior

Over_North8884 · 2024-01-09T18:49:56+00:00

Two primary types of toxic femininity:

1) resource extractors such as FDS 2) misandrists such as radical feminists

mrs_seng · 2024-01-09T08:25:34+00:00

Wild take, but i'll play along. If you said toxic femininity comes in the form of misandry, i would have agreed with you.

"Toxic femininity" is more common than people think, it's just that it takes a different form to "toxic masculinity". While toxic masculinity takes the form of aggression, toxic femininity takes the form of passivity. Which is why most women rarely take the initiative, especially when it comes to dating and relationships. So women's passivity in dating feeds men's aggressiveness. This passivity also makes it really easy for the powers that be to oppress women (which they have historically) and also easy for manipulative men to control them.

Agression is always worse than passivity. It's a situation like: a person is being beated up in the street (agression) vs. people passing by and not doing anything (passivity). The agressor is always the worse person. Sure, people whi pass by can intervene and calm down the situation, but what if the agressor has a knife, has a gun, woukd beat them up as well? So, agression is always worse than passivity.

Women rarely take the initiative because of a few factors (which may not apply all at once): the man thinks she's easy, the man would not have feelings for her but will see an opportunity to get his dick wet, social construct.

It's not the passiveness that lead to the oppesion of women, but the imbalance of force and the vulnerability of women.

While "toxic masculinity" takes the form of men suppressing their emotions and trying not to express them especially in relationships, "toxic femininity" tends to make women not have much control over their emotions (I'm sure many women will be triggered by this even though its true), which also encourages them to manipulate men with their lack of control over their emotions because once a woman starts crying, most men do whatever they can to make them stop, especially if they're in a relationship with them.

I agree that men should open up with the right person at the right time. Women are more emotional due to hormones. Men don't have hormonal fluctuations, so they are supposed to be more rational. While some women use crying as a form of manipulation, a man can ignore the fake cry and she will stop doing it. Or simply that couple should break up as manipulation from either side is a very bad habbit. The thing is, you can tell when it's fake cry vs crying with a reason.

"Toxic femininity" and "toxic masculinity" are both results of social conditioning designed to keep men and women divided and always fighting each other, which makes it really easy for the people in charge to control humanity, believe it or not.

There are similarities and differences between sexes. This will not change. It's best to find a person you love, who loves you back, who you are compatible with.

TermAggravating8043 · 2024-01-09T09:39:45+00:00

I will never understand why men don’t think woman have control over their emotions but men somehow do?

I think you miss understand the issues with toxic masculinity against men and woman. Toxic masculinity teaches men not show friendliness, not to make relationships with anyone unless you can benefit from them, teaches you not to ask for help or admit you were wrong. All that built up aggression makes you a walking bomb, ready to lash out.

People can be toxic, no argument there. But this “strong approach” only applied to males is making the mens mental health issues go off the charts. ‘Men’ aren’t supposed to be leaders, they aren’t supposed to be solely responsible for the safety and provisions of their families, how much pressure is that in a young man? That their supposed to be ready to fight bears at a moments notice, they need to have a great job and always getting promoted so their families have everything they need, they need to make all the decisions and they always have to be right? And they have to fight anyone that challenges them??

That is not a healthy mindset nor is it a healthy partnership. Men and woman work best together , ying/yang, both respecting the other person as an equal aiming for the same goals. Toxic masculinity is about male supremacy, and it’s either turning men into misogynistic arseholes that end up hurting everyone around them, or isolated individuals that end up unaliving themselves

Pola_Lita · 2024-01-09T09:50:59+00:00

While "toxic masculinity" takes the form of men suppressing their emotions and trying not to express them especially in relationships, "toxic femininity" tends to make women not have much control over their emotions (I'm sure many women will be triggered by this even though its true), which also encourages them to manipulate men with their lack of control over their emotions because once a woman starts crying, most men do whatever they can to make them stop, especially if they're in a relationship with them.

Suppressing emotions isn't aggression and expressing them doesn't equal being out of control.

There is no such thing as toxic levels of either masculinity or femininity, there are simply negative levels of aggression (direct or passive), either of which can be found in either sex.

It's a bad idea to assume labels necessarily have anything to do with reality.

obviousredflag · 2024-01-09T11:47:35+00:00

which makes it really easy for the people in charge to control humanity, believe it or not.

Yeah, thanks, i'll stay with not believing in "the people in charge who control humanity". Is this a place for open conspiracy theory debates now?

macone235 · 2024-01-09T19:32:51+00:00

Toxic masculinity doesn't exist. If a man is "toxic" and "masculine", then it's a direct result of female selection, so it's contradictory for women to say that is toxic.

throw-away-AITAplus · 2024-01-09T09:41:01+00:00

Women showing emotion and not dating you is not toxic femininity. There are examples that could be construed as toxic femininity but these aren’t it.

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WilliamWyattD · 2024-01-09T11:02:55+00:00

The real issue is we don't have a consensus 'masculine' or 'feminine' ideal to then call 'toxic' if it goes too far. Women decided that any more female-typical behavior that tends to contribute to less hard power in life (as opposed to softer influence) and less material success should be leaned away from. Sure, maybe women are more inclined to be a certain way, but humans are somewhat plastic and can usually do as they must. Thus women today resent holding up anything that contributes to greater agency or power or authority as a distinct ideal for men to pursue but not women. Women feel that when this was done, it resulted in too much of a power advantage for men over women; and men abused that leverage.

In this headspace, what was once 'masculinity' is the ideal for everyone. 'Toxic' masculinity is simply going too far or not being balanced in your application of the masculine ideal, something men are more likely to do due to their nature. All classic femininity is in a sense 'toxic', as it hurts the practitioner. But yes, you can also adopt classic femininity in a way that is more harmful to others as well, but all of it is to be eschewed. Every man and woman should have strong agency, be disagreeable and willing to stand up for themselves, be competitive, be a provider and a protector to themselves and others. In the new view, this is just being a capable and actualized human, not 'masculinity'. And regardless of underlying biology-derived tendencies due to gender, every person can and should strive to be that.

TomKikkert · 2024-01-09T11:37:46+00:00

The only ones using those terms are feminists

Pristine-Can3719 · 2024-01-09T13:22:59+00:00

Toxic femininity is just being feminine without having man or wanting materialistic things(which I am lol).Thats my opinion and no can change it

SleepyPoemsin2020 · 2024-01-09T15:22:16+00:00

"manipulate men with their lack of control over their emotions."

Bit of a contradictory statement. If someone is actually good at manipulating others with emotions, they probably have quite good control over them, and can choose when to turn the tears on or off.

Also, many men have shit control over their emotions. Ie, suppress and then blow up, or having their emotions repeatedly manifesting as aggression.

zoxzoxzo · 2024-01-09T15:45:04+00:00

I don't believe there is a toxic masculinity or femininity, only toxic people.

KayRay1994 · 2024-01-09T16:33:49+00:00

I think the reason for this is that toxic masculinity is more obvious and generally more prevalent from a day to day perspective. It also doenst help that toxic femininity is often only brought up in response to toxic masculinity and more often than not, the conversation around toxic masculinity still revolves around whether it exists or not (or the classic “masculinity isn’t toxic” response)

I think there is certainly such a thing as toxic femininity, it is certainly more prevalent than it’s made out to be but women also generally don’t do a great job holding each other accountable to it (where as i think, more men, on average, hold each other more accountable to this stuff - you’re more likely to find a man calling out problems within men than women calling out problems within women).

i think for the conversation to actually gain any kind of traction, more women need to hold each other accountable to these behaviors, and for that to have a chance at happening, more men need to be accepting of the idea of toxic masculinity existing - that way we can move on from the repetitive “masculinity isn’t toxic!” debate and maybe gain some leeway in calling out potentially toxicity in both masculine and feminine behavior in a less combative context

untamed-italian · 2024-01-09T16:59:16+00:00

Just call them "internalized misandry/misogyny" respectively. It isn't masculinity nor femininity that is the source of the problem, it is the misanthropic hatred of both sexes which manifest as inhumane gender roles that are only kept around because they benefit those who control our society.

apresonly · 2024-01-09T17:23:17+00:00

toxic femininity would be the same as toxic masculinity

so it would be ***aspirational*** qualities of the female gender role that both men and women say is desirable for women (but which actually has poor health effects for men and women)

most people who use "toxic femininity" just name random things women do that don't meet this definition.

kalashhhhhhhh · 2024-01-09T17:37:44+00:00

The perpetual victim mother, monster in law, "hotter than my daughter", crazy ex girlfriend, overly attached girlfriend, obsessed fangirl, bimbos and girls pretending to be dumb so men like them, pick-mes, baby trappers, angry female boss/professor who really needs to get laid, "girls are so much drama i prefer being friends with guys", mean girls, pms, bridezillas, wicked stepmother, cougars....

There is no shortage of toxic female tropes, don't worry.

excess_inquisitivity · 2024-01-09T18:50:58+00:00

It permeates most posts in subreddits about men's rights.

It's on clear display in most posts in reddits explicitly about feminism.

doggiedoc2004 · 2024-01-09T21:30:42+00:00

How is it toxic to be passive? It is unlikely women's passivity has commonly oppressed men nor caused physical harm. Women being the more passive gender is not an excuse for men to act in an aggressive manner toward their fellow human beings.

I would posit that aggressiveness shows as much, if not more, lack of control over emotions than crying.

For someone who says they do not like the terms toxic masculinity or femininity you are sure spouting some "toxic" generalization such as women "do not have much control over their emotions." Or that women being passive has anything to do with some mens aggressive behaviors. (mens aggressive behavior is likely much more influenced by their social class/economic opportunities, how they were socialized/male role models, and testosterone than by all us passive women.)

Is the theory if women were more sexually and socially aggressive that men would overall be less aggressive? As a professional women I can tell you exactly how much men like aggressive, non passive women in the work force... somehow I do not think a lot of men would like sexually aggressive women for wives and girl friends.

Spyro7x3 · 2024-01-09T21:39:11+00:00

Toxic femininity is more common in men.

Spirited-Reality-651 · 2024-01-10T03:20:38+00:00

You know, you’re right that “toxic femininity” is quite prevalent in dating these days. It’s just that you’re fucking clueless that like 80 percent of men are passive as fuck and therefore suffer from toxic femininity as well as toxic masculinity

Beautiful_Bunch_6079 · 2024-01-10T05:25:16+00:00

Covert aggression is much more suited to our modern world of rules and legislation. If a man resorts to overt aggression in an HR situation, even if the woman initiated with covert aggression. He will be outgunned just about everytime.

Zero tolerance policies etc. Similar scenarios play out in things like couples therapy.

But to make things even more interesting, women also are punished harshly for displaying overt aggression.

Sharp_Platform8958 · 2024-01-10T21:29:06+00:00

You need to update the term. I think you'd find most men don't consider femininity toxic and wouldn't label it that way. Let's try toxic feminism instead.

Title	Many people talk about toxic masculinity, but we rarely hear about toxic femininity.
Author	Agreeable-Moment-760
Upvotes	52
Comments	227
Date	January 9, 2024 8:01 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1929mg1/many_people_talk_about_toxic_masculinity_but_we/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/many-people-talk-about-toxic-masculinity-but-we.1242548 https://theredarchive.com/post/1242548

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