As an average guy, when did you finally start getting girls you considered out of you leauge, and what did you do to achieve that?

james8807 · 2020-11-08T11:01:42+00:00

Dont be average. Study hard in what ever field you are in and specialise, work out with a proper plan and be consistent, eat well with a focus on nutrition, budget well and build wealth. if you find a sport you like and get good at it, plus have a strong group of friends all the rest will come.

ken653 · 2020-11-08T05:48:39+00:00

Don’t try to hard, find a way to be attractive without promotion, some times when all u do is focus on the girls it creates a wall

CompetitionFair7686 · 2020-11-08T05:56:33+00:00

To get girls out of your league, you need to be the type of guy those girls go for. So you could try to become an athlete. I mean, you are complaining because attractive girls go for attractive guys. If you want an attractive girl, you should try to become attractive just saying. Otherwise if you are not willing to put in that type of work and become stronger, then why should they settle for a less attractive guy? Everybody wants someone attractive just like you want more attractive girls, girls want more attractive guys. Nobody wants to settle for average, so what they do is to work towards not being average.

You said you get bitter because you have to do so much to get their attention unlike athletes... Well, athletes do put a lot of effort to have an athletic physique. It isn’t handed to them, they work hard and painfully to look so athletic.

december-bunny · 2020-11-08T08:44:12+00:00

How can you accuse those girls of being shallow when you only want to date someone out of your league?

int-enzo · 2020-11-08T11:39:34+00:00

“ I don’t understand why women are shallow and want hot guys”

Post- how do I get hot girls??

Dude lol- but seriously, we want good looking guys in the way way you want us. Stop thinking about LEAGUES, seriously they aren’t even a thing. When looking for a certain type of girl you usually need to also be that same way. If you want a respectable woman? Be a respectable dude. Being “hot” isn’t enough for us, it’s just enough for you guys.

r_m_castro · 2020-11-08T10:01:03+00:00

Dude you can't say they're shallow because they go for the hot guys. You wanna go for the hot girls! If they're shallow you're shallow as well.

But I know where this is coming from because I was like this for like 25 years (I'm 28 now).

I always thought women didn't care for looks like men do and that if I was a nice guy they would fall for me. Then I'd get pissed when they would fall for the bad guy. It would happen all the time.

The only ones that would fall for me were the ugly ones (which I rejected) or the average ones (some of whom I'd date). Then one day I was thinking about it and remembered all the best friends I had that had fallen in love with me. I knew they were great, I knew they would be the best girlfriends in the world, but I had zero desire in kissing them or having sex with them because I didn't like their appearence. Then I finally understood how the hot girls in my life felt and why they rejected me and stopped judging them.

Unfortunately I haven't discovered a secret to get them yet, but I guess we gotta work on our looks and attitude. The only tip I can give you is: don't try to become their friends first. Sometimes you're interesting when you're a misterious to them but after sometime as a friend, this interesting goes away. Your best chance is right in the beggining. And if she doesn't want to, move on. You won't be so sad for a rejection of someone you are not so close with.

njconnect · 2020-11-08T10:51:41+00:00

27 yo here. Dont make girls a priority at all. They can sense when you are trying too hard from afar. I suggest you laser Focus on SELF improvement and most importantly YOUR career and the rest sorta fall into place for you. I've dated girls out of my league but i cant say it has been fulfilling to say the least.

andreecook · 2020-11-08T11:47:03+00:00

Bro I’ll tell you now why you’re not getting girls, it’s not cause you’re average looking it’s cause you’re immature, not at all confident and bordering on incel. You are bitter because girls out of your league don’t like you like they owe it to you? What do you think one of them is just going to give you a chance out of pity to give you a break? Fuck dude as a guy this is the biggest confidence killer. Get away from reddit and this head space you’re in, go and get a hobby and stop putting all your focus into what you think is the reason you’re not getting girls, cause you’re wrong. I know guys who aren’t good looking but are confident within themselves and they have a lot more success with girls then guys who are good looking but aren’t confident. Don’t be needy and begging for attention/approval, i bet you’re one of those guys who goes “why aren’t you replying to me??” when she doesn’t respond. This post annoyed me you need to grow up bro and get out of this mind set it will NEVER work

TheBackstreetNet · 2020-11-08T12:33:13+00:00

I'm in the same group, and I'd say I've done very well out of college! I haven't slept with a lot of girls, but all of them have been super hot.

I'm a very average 5'7" guy. My secret is simple: I don't believe in a "league". I always thought I have something else to offer to girls. I'm funny, talkative and smart. I have passions, like piano and animation.

The problem here isn't with the girls. It's with your lack of confidence in yourself. Almost no girls I've met are that shallow that they'd only date a frat guy or something.

Also, you're lucky at the moment! Covid has been GREAT for daygame. Girls (and guys) are fed up and desperate. From my experience, cold approaching always always ALWAYS brightens people's day up.

Get over your own issues, drop your preconceptions, and you'll be well on your way.

blublub8 · 2020-11-08T10:50:43+00:00

If you want someone out of your league looks-wise then you have to offer them in return something that they can’t get elsewhere: usually it’s either money, social status, your extraordinary intelligence.

You can’t just expect to get someone out of your league by being nice. Everyone is nice to hot girls.

Besides women also want good looking guys.

Real_Chimera65 · 2020-11-08T12:31:20+00:00

There is technically no such thing as "out of your league."Everyone has their own conventions of what they consider attractive, and not all of that is purely in the looks department. I see gorgeous girls dating guys all the time that are below average in looks. The catch is that these guys have something going for them - a great sense of humor, personality, a unique hobby that makes them marketable in the dating pool. They also don't fall into the trap of thinking a certain girl is out of their league - they go into every interaction thinking "I'm a catch and if they reject me it's their loss not mine." My advice, find out your strengths (you could ask fam or friends) and lean into those. If you can't find any strengths, then expand the idea of "working on yourself" to traits outside of attractiveness.

NewManOnTheMNVikings · 2020-11-08T13:04:34+00:00

Lower your standards. Up your average. Funny girls need ❤️ too.

TheDevilPutD · 2020-11-08T06:18:47+00:00

It was a bit of a progression for me, but I started dressing more edgy, ditched the dorky haircuts and went to a good salon and got my hair cut by younger hot women (instead of a guy or old ladies).

But most important was the attitude. All the athletes and frat boys and fuckboys don't sit around moping and shit, they like themselves and they act like they are the top of the food chain. They walk around like they own the place. I started adopting that same attitude and became more assertive, not submissive to others. Others will subtly try to get you to submit to their dominance by using little power moves. For example, if you are going to a club and bouncers act all tough and menacing, I would act like they didn't even exist. I would show them them my id but wouldn't even acknowledge them otherwise. They are trying to intimidate you. When you are in a group of people out your chin up and look slightly above them without acknowledging anyone, only the hot girl that you want to approach.

When you sit down, relax and spread around, a la Tony Montana when he is out at the club in Miami: https://images.app.goo.gl/1jzkMVF8Fa3LStzC7

putcoolusernamehere · 2020-11-08T13:32:26+00:00

I don't have "leagues". Women are women. Some are hotter and cooler than others, but at the end of the day they're just human beings.

co0kiegangsta · 2020-11-08T07:59:35+00:00

and learned that I am apparently more attractive than I thought I was, and that was a major confidence booster

So I'm guessing you stopped there and didn't go ahead working on yourself ?

ZidaneLoire · 2020-11-08T13:40:57+00:00

Very simple:

First, improve your life and yourself. Workout, try new fun hobbies, learn new things, learn and work on your fashion, etc. You want attractive, interesting girls who work on themselves, so be an attractive, interesting guy who works on yourself.

Second, go out and meet people. Go live in a cohabitation house, go travel, join a club of something. You need to be constantly meeting new people, so that you don't waste time trying to make it work with people unsuitable for your life.

Third, be patient and trust things will work themselves out. Accept the nature of the relationships that simply will not work out due to circumstance or because the girl is not into you gracefully. It can take 2 years, 5 years, 10 years, depending on how effectively you do 1 and 2. For instance, getting braces and losing weight can take 2/3 years, but will turn you from a 5 to an 8 easy.

Do these three things simultaneously and you will for sure be dating the girls you want eventually. That's it.

For me it took me about 4 years in a multi pronged attack on all areas of my life. I'm so much happier with everything, not just my dating life. I got amazing friends and interesting people in my life now and girls who i never imagined i could be able to date.

IcitPenghulu · 2020-11-08T11:46:55+00:00

Im 17, and got a girl way out of my league. Im not that attractive, obese and an ok height(178 cm). She really made my confidence shoot up! I basically be myself around her.

Best advice I can give is be yourself, somewhere out there there’s a beautiful and amazing woman way out of your league waiting.

WeakEmu8 · 2020-11-08T14:17:31+00:00

When I stopped categorizing into "leagues"

Teamtoast · 2020-11-08T10:44:26+00:00

Sounds like you need hobbies. And stop considering yourself to be only average

Financial_Recipe · 2020-11-08T12:54:41+00:00

Well say you want a 8, but you're a 4-5 atm. Add some value to yourself, because the 8 probably feels the way she can't get a 10 to see her.

Adding value to yourself is so much more important than just finding someone. It will come, but it takes time to develop yourself.

A few things like how you speak, you body langauge and the portray of yourself to the public can be fixed quick.

If you think health, then better start do some exercise and show you take care of yourself. This takes a bit more time, but is oh so valuable to some.

wal_rider1 · 2020-11-08T13:02:05+00:00

Figure out what you want. You said that most of the girls are shallow at your age.. But you still want their attention, and say athletic guys get more attention from them than you. If you want an actually good relationship i don't see how that's a problem, let shallow guys be with shallow girls and you focus on the other 5%. It probably won't be easy finding one but the wait will probably pay off, quality over quantity

ahalikias · 2020-11-08T13:11:33+00:00

After my 20-year marriage ended, I very much wanted to show myself and my ex that I was capable of going out with pretty women. This mattered because I had married an 8 when she was 18 and we were poor, who became a 10 not that long after. There was always an undercurrent of her thinking she was much better, as the male attention she received all these years was everywhere all the time. I had gotten a girl out of my league then but couldn't replicate the trick, I was way too old to be looking for an 18yo late bloomer.

So, I upgraded my clothes, paid better attention to my body and appearance, read a few PUA books (only Models was worthwhile). Just for good measure, I also got a large waterfront condo, kept my Carrera convertible clean and always top down, and started going out more. Dating up proved easier than I had imagined.

Etoile67gp · 2020-11-08T13:14:18+00:00

Why are you trying to seduce them? You’re doing the wrong thing. At that age you don’t have a chance if you’re doing what every other guy is doing. You have to change your mindset. What can they offer you? You can get sex anywhere these days. Don’t chase after sex. Don’t chase anyone. Focus on yourself. I’ve learnt this lesson the hard way. Focus on what you really want out of life... not on just chasing after women. The type of woman you’re chasing after isn’t worth your time and effort if they’re just after the superficial. I’ve been offered sex with certain women at different times in my life and each time I turned it down... my last relationship ended because I didn’t create the boundaries I should have. I’m single now with a HL but I’m not desperately chasing after women on dating apps ( never have or will), or IRL. I’ve been for coffee with some women I met IRL and wanted to get to know them as a person, and things are going well and we’re having a nice, friendly interesting chat but as soon as I tell them I’m a teacher they’re not interested anymore. Hey, that doesn’t bother me one bit. In France most women, not matter their job/education, ask me what I do within 30 minutes of meeting them and their brain switches and automatically I lose status if I don’t have a ‘prestigious job’. I’ve experienced this with women who were nurses, secretaries, IT engineers, doctor, sales or marketing professionals. I don’t care. I deliberately don’t tell them I have other sources of income that would put me into a different league... if they’re going to act superficial then they’re not worth having any kind of relationship with in the first place, no matter how sexy they look. I prefer someone who wants me for who am I. Everything else is just fluff.

AligatorTears · 2020-11-08T09:53:13+00:00

Here's my trick: I never considered anybody out of my league.

Now, that's not entirely true. In school I was a skinny nerd with a pony tail who had a long history of not really talking to anybody unless I had to. Then one day I joined a subculture and started incorporating their mannerisms and dress styles. I looked at all the "goth" character archetypes and settled on my own "Crazy Ali" persona that was based on Malkavians from Vampire the Masquerade. I'd flip from super serious to manic laugher on a dime and would wear all manner of ridiculous outfits. NOBODY knew what was going on with me but somehow a lot of girls found that mystery to be intriguing. Rather than this "be yourself" garbage, I decided I'd be anybody else before I'd be that loser ever again. It took a little while but I stuck true to my brand and ended up with my own aesthetic and proclaimed myself the chief slut of all male sluts... and somehow that got women's attention and I started this wild snowball of casual sex relationships.

I'm not necessarily saying you need to wear fishnet stockings and mesh shirts like I did, but the bit of the "be yourself" thing I can endorse is that there's no point trying to be better at being like the guys who look like they are successful because they're already doing that and most girls are sick of their bullshit and are just going to be turned off by some guy trying to imitate the assholes they put up with because there is nobody more interesting. Most women in your target age range are ready to try something different. If you've already tried doing what everybody else is doing and it hasn't worked... maybe try doing something a bit different.

Just ask yourself, what is the worst that could happen? You're in a new culture with new people and you've got a chance to experiment with a few different identities and see what fits you. Are you willing to take a risk?

jamesatom25 · 2020-11-08T09:29:17+00:00

Dude with that beard, just go on Tinder. I´m actually in the same situation but I don´t have that beard

concernedad420 · 2020-11-08T12:44:25+00:00

Hey man I saw your picture on /r/amiugly and I gotta say man you are what I see on model magazines and shit, NO HOMO. In my eyes you should be able to have 10/10's at your feet, begging for YOUR attention.

My guess is and what other people have stated here is "up your confidence". I really wish I had your looks because I could be a "jock" or "bad boy" just have all the confidence in the world and it still wouldn't mean shit because I am truly unattractive in most if not all women's eye's.

You got this man, go out there and bag you someone who you consider a baddie and don't second guess it.

Brownanddusky · 2020-11-08T13:18:00+00:00

I saw your post in amiugly ..In which universe is that considered average?? I think it's your personality that's putting off girls

tomhanksinbig1 · 2020-11-08T13:24:53+00:00

I’ll let you know...

Veganpuncher · 2020-11-08T13:41:20+00:00

I worked in a bar.

the-duck-butter-er · 2020-11-08T14:06:25+00:00

Be a little more obvious in showing your interest. But also be attractive, have friends, be funny, and have ambitions.

grimbasement · 2020-11-08T14:13:21+00:00

It's about mindset.... And excelling in living the life you want. That's it. To go a bit further though, if you are average looking don't be average in how you live your life. It's all inner game and being aware of the open doors that present themselves when you have your shit together. Good women are attracted to quality dudes... It just happens.

Play-Mation · 2020-11-08T18:34:37+00:00

I’m gonna be straight with you. You are fairly attractive from your other posts. As a “frat guy” myself, there is nothing separating you from me besides confidence. It’s quite easy to fall into the mindset of “this guy gets girls because he’s hotter than me” but that’s not the case 90% of the time. It’s usually because he’s confident. As I am in a frat myself I notice some of my friends (who are attractive) say how they have no game and no girls but than I look at how they act towards them. They stand around awkwardly and don’t know how to talk to them which puts girls off. They have like a sixth sense for sensing thirsty guys. And that’s fine, it just comes with experience. I’d say you need some experience with dating apps first. Your profile should have plenty of matches because you are attractive, and if you aren’t finding a little success it’s probably because of your bio or texting game which is another ball game. When you get more experience you start to see girls less as a prize or something t9 have sex with and rather as a person like you.

I have plenty of girls I’ve vibed with on a physical level but never hit it off emotionally. Sometimes it is just about finding a good match. But fr don’t think too much about girls, it drains you. No. 1 strategy to stop being a simp/virgin is to just not care. If you care too much you neglect yourself. And you should be taking care of yourself before everything else.

Again girls don’t go for shallow guys, they are just more confident than you

babytommy · 2020-11-08T19:14:47+00:00

I think that you are projecting your insecurities onto women. I’ve seen tons of gorgeous women in our age range with so-so looking guys. I think personality factors into that a lot. Being funny, kind, sweet, etc. What personality are you presenting to girls? Is it based in your insecurity?

Also, why are you only interested in girls “out of your league” and not more average looking girls? Isn’t that shallow of you, not wanting to be with someone of average attractiveness, like you are?

muff_marauder · 2020-11-08T09:47:09+00:00

Went from 275 to 180, read The Game, and got a job paying $90K a year.

The rest took care of itself.

Cento_Milione · 2020-11-08T11:27:08+00:00

Haven’t dated a guy under 31 since-well I was underage? So... be patient. Do you, hang w the boys, hook up with girls, hustle, grind for a decade and they will come to you

DavidCameronEtonLad · 2020-11-08T11:58:20+00:00

Still sounds like you e got a lot of issues to deal with if you think all girls are shallow looking for the popular guy. In fact isn't what you want shallow as well? I'm sorry but you still need to work on yourself this isn't a 2000s US high school movie with jocks and nerds. I'm 21 and have never met these kind of "shallow" women you're talking about.

More general advice is that expose yourself to more people you consider "out of your league" and you'll very quickly learn that their shit doesn't smell like roses whether male or female. Sure some people are funnier or charismatic or more good looking but everyone can have a little charm to them that is your niche and you shouldn't be afraid to play into that

rayvin4000 · 2020-11-08T12:06:03+00:00

You're just as shallow as them for wanting girls out of your league.

Hegemon1984 · 2020-11-08T13:21:03+00:00

Learn the game.

The top posts here are nothing more than, "be the top guy bro!" or "just be an athlete lol", while those paths may be helpful, they're not the greatest. As pickup artists - you ARE on a subreddit called r/seduction after all - I'd advise treating college campus like a mixture of cold approach and social circle game.

Here's a trick: Most guys in their college years, no matter if they're the lowliest geek to the top-tier social guys, don't have great verbal game.

They use their status to get girls, but verbal social finesse isn't their strongsuit.

I'd advise watching Todd V vids or any of your favorite pickup artists to see how to handle the college scene and utilize verbal game to the best of your ability.

Because I'll tell you what: I'm a 28 year old guy and I've managed to score college girls with lots of friends and are considered popular simply due to verbals alone

weird_watercress · 2020-11-08T12:18:32+00:00

You don't need to become an athlete to get girls in college, but it can help. College is all about social networks, if you can be a leader, maybe of a society, another social network, that can get you places. You can also have some success cold approaching on campus but that can get you a reputation in the social networks so you have to be subtle and experienced. The problem with dating apps is that the best girls don't need them, and you often find the loners or low value girls on there, or they just don't pay much attention to it, then there is the problem of making your dating profile attractive in the first place. If you don't have real world experience this can be hard. Good looks is more important on dating apps but not so much in real life. You're going to have to work, and climb which is tough to hear when you're in a college situation and you only have 4 years to make the most of it. Good advice is to go somewhere else away from campus and practice your cold approaches, there is less chance of getting a reputation and you can get experience you can take back to college. Hit me up on DM if you would like some more guidance.

quangminh19 · 2020-11-08T13:16:25+00:00

You sound exactly those guys on r/niceguys who try to get attractive women out of their league when you yourself are an average guy and has nothing to put on the table except for a whiny and jealous attitude toward other guys and complaining why girls are shallow . STFU ! the only one is shallow in this post is you my friend , get your shit together and stop bitching

ThePunisherx23x · 2020-11-08T14:02:34+00:00

There are several options; 1. Make a lot of money,for some reason, it attracts women😏 2. Ask out 100 hot girls, you’ll be rejected,ALOT, but it will build confidence and you will acquire skills along the way. Furthermore, you’ll start to pick up on what works for you- are you a smooth talker? Funny? Cool? Great in bed? Or do you have your shit together and would make a good husband. Knowing your strengths and weaknesses are essential to being successful in anything. 3. Hire escorts. If you don’t have a problem with being with a sex worker, sleep with them. It’s the fastest way to get a woman out of your league. Many will say that it’s wrong to pay for sex, however I believe you pay for sex anyway- dates to the movies, dinner, drinks, theme parks, flowers, chocolates, gas spent driving her around...it’s actually cheaper to just buy what you actually want instead of spending time and money for the “possibility” of sex. You can get the girl you want, and do what you want, when you want. No bs before, no bs after. As far as Safety, escorts are the only women that carry and use condoms- most women, once they decide that they are going to have sex, will let guys go in raw, even with dudes they just met at the bar.

What worked for me was to stop looking at hot girls as if they were special. I learned that most hot girls are insecure, and just as horny as I was. I started talking to them like human beings, called them out on their shit, and was always willing to be rejected when I approach. Always being honest with myself, and never looking for anything other than to see if SHE was worth MY time. I looked at them as if I was a boss, giving and interview. I found that a lot of the girls were either dumb due to never having to develop social skills, boring and unable to hold a conversation. Some were simply OK, but not the type of person I would want a relationship with. And a small percentage, like less than one percent- were beautiful inside and out, smart, great sense of humor, good outlook on life, just overall amazing. Those are very rare, and rarely single, why the hell would they be. Alas, the key for me was finding out what I wanted, and having the balls to go for it.

I leave you with this advice;

“Stop putting women on a pedestal, instead use them as steppingstones.”

yazmen · 2020-11-08T14:57:47+00:00

as a college girl, u can be the ugliest guy but work out & have a great body and that’s it for me. u CAN be attractive and out of THEIR league bec it’s all about the aura, working out and building muscles will help u personally grow confidence and feel better, girls are just a huge bonus

Sideof305 · 2020-11-08T15:27:52+00:00

Don’t ever accept being average. Get on a path. Read, lift heavy things, start training a martial art, especially jiujitsu which will not only teach confidence and humility, but also create more interactions with lots of different people.

yuro2894 · 2020-11-08T18:13:25+00:00

I looked at your post that you mentioned. You, sir, are absolutely not ugly. What you are lacking is confidence. I had this same dilemma recently and I find, through myself and advice of others, that finding hobbies and doing things that make you feel like you have worth will make you feel MUCH better. When you do these things you create venues of connection with other people. THIS IS HOW YOU GET GIRLS!! If that is your goal, although i think when you’re actively looking its actually harder. You can share what you make through your hobbies, join forums for your hobbies, post about your hobbies on your social media, try to be active in groups. When you really care about things that you are doing, other people notice. People are drawn to others who are passionate about things they love, especially girls. This will then generate confidence and a surety in yourself. Don’t just try to do things to “better” yourself because if you don’t genuinely enjoy it, it won’t bring you long-term joy. Try to do things (find them in you don’t know what they are) that will make you happy, and this will draw in other people. Hope this advice helps a little! (:

ivanalesi · 2020-11-08T21:17:55+00:00

About 2 weeks :) But I also found out I was far from average... I mean, you're looking at improving your game. Believe me, 99.9999% of men should be doing the same thing!!! Because they're lame af! You're one of those who had the awareness and balls to do it.

So, you ain't average ;)

misterandosan · 2020-11-08T17:13:54+00:00

You're shallow, the girls you're attracted to are shallow
Why would anyone want date an "average dude"? Unless you want to date an "average girl"? The fact is, no one can be described as average. People have attractive qualities to them that they leverage and improve. One person's soulmate is another person's trash.

I have already done the "work on yourself bro" stuff like get in shape & work on hygeine.

Hygeine is the bare fucking minimum to being a well adjusted human being in society. To think someone is going to hop on your dick for that is hilarious.

I even made a post on r/amiugly and learned that I am apparently more attractive than I thought I was, and that was a major confidence booster.

No shit. Girls don't give a fuck about your looks beyond first impressions. Idiots who have no experience with girls automatically assume girls aren't into them because they're ugly. The reality is they many men (especially on online platforms) have deep set emotional and insecurity issues that they put no effort into resolving. It's hard to work on yourself and your mindset, and it's far easier to feel sorry for yourself and blame things you can't control, like your looks (even though as men, there is a ridiculous amount you can do to improve, and unlike women our looks get better with age).

You don't need to work on how you look. You need to work on how you see the world, and see relationships and other people.

If you find it difficult to initiate relationships where you are closer to other people (romantic or otherwise). Intimate Connections is a good place to get started by Dr David Burns to work on your insecurities and get you to develop a solid foundation for interacting with other human beings. It doesn't look at external bullshit like working out or hygiene (both great things, but if you do it solely for women, you're an idiot), but it looks at who you are fundamentally.

milk444 · 2020-11-08T17:18:41+00:00

Trust me... as a female.... most of the females dating the “athletes” and “popular guys” and getting treated like shit by these men. They are being cheated on, lied to, and disrespected. Many of these girls will eventually learn that lesson (usually by age 25) and start looking for secure, good guys, who will treat them right.. rather than douchey hot athletes. I think it’s best to go for girls who have dating experience and truly know what they want in a relationship which is stability and security.

Fountain_Hook · 2020-11-08T18:50:29+00:00

Started crossplaying and became prettier than them :)

blublub8 · 2020-11-08T10:11:00+00:00

[permanently deleted]

RProgrammerMan · 2020-11-08T14:22:32+00:00

Instead of focusing on the success of others (getting in a fraternity, athletic success) think about what you are good at. I wonder if you aren’t putting their abilities on a pedestal and not valuing your own abilities. Instead of trying to become someone else think about what you are good at and focus on those things. People tend to respect people who own who they are and that is attractive to girls. It’s a sign of maturity. If you want to be an athlete then try playing a sport. You don’t have to be the best ever for it to be fun or for it to increase your attractiveness to women. You could try going out of your way to talk to girls even as friends and put yourself in uncomfortable situations to level up your social skills, that’s something you can control.

FaP_caligula · 2020-11-08T15:06:04+00:00

By kinoing.

JediSange · 2020-11-08T15:07:53+00:00

A lot of these comments are unhelpful and maybe I'm just old school. 30+ and married now. But if we rewind the clock ten years the recommendation I would have said is that your mindset is bad.

There is no such thing as out of your league. You don't need that external validation. You are valuable and you know that. Etc etc. The rest of the comments saying to actually make this true are spot on. Take care of yourself. Mind your hygiene. Focus in what drives you.

But don't use that expression "out of my league" imo. Bad mental game.

slutmonger69 · 2020-11-08T15:31:50+00:00

Make money.

Mckeyjane · 2020-11-08T15:42:47+00:00

Go for girls in “your league”. You are literally saying “I want a partner who I consider to be better than me.” Why do you think you deserve them when you describe yourself to be average? Either better yourself or go for an “average” girl. Whatever that means.

wolf_supernova · 2020-11-08T15:42:48+00:00

Money

TulsaGrassFire · 2020-11-08T15:51:49+00:00

Be better than average.

Be smart. Be honest. Be dressed well. Be funny. Be considerate. Be passionate. Be complimentary. Be in shape. Be clean. Be confident.

Those are the things I did when I got divorced. I'm now married to the perfect woman ten years my junior who also checks all those boxes.

TANKER_06 · 2020-11-08T15:54:37+00:00

If you're anything below an 8, drop the phone and hit the streets. Any reasonably hot girl would have hundreds, maybe even thousands of guys swiping on them; what makes you think you're so special?

Focusing on dating apps specifically is setting yourself up for failure and the effects are showing; you're getting increasingly frustrated, jealous and bitter. I'm not saying there is no place for us average-looking guys on such apps, but you need the fundamentals.

Getting in shape and working on hygiene isn't a magic bullet that would change everything.

My advice?

Learn to approach women. Fail miserably, and try again. Stop looking for that secret cheat code to suddenly boost your social status and have women fall head-over-heels for you. That only exists in movies and games.

Instead of getting angry after each failure, look back and see what you can improve. Then improve yourself, and keep trying. You will certainly fail, perhaps a lot, but you will gain experience you will never get on dating apps, and you will get better after each failure.

If you're up for a social experiment, so to speak, try swiping on 10 girls a day and do the equivalent of swiping in real life:
1) Approach 10 girls a day
2) Just say something like "Hey, I noticed you from over there, <insert sincere compliment>." and end with a "Could I take you out for dinner sometime?"

After a month, see how many dates you've had from each.

Remember, flirting is an art.
Some people can throw paint around and get lucky.
Some people are lucky and can create a masterpiece after a few tries.
Some people throw a few random dabs of paint, get angry and stop painting forever.
Us? We keep working on it, over and over, until we get what we want.

Anderduds · 2020-11-08T15:57:51+00:00

Talk to them in a way that makes them want to respond. Comedy is the key to most things for me, I love the playfulness of a sharp mind. Make me laugh if you want to make me do anything else.

2020-11-08T16:13:32+00:00

It's not about how attractive you are, it's the confidence. I found myself to be noteably more attractive when I gained a little more confidence and started taking more pictures. I have a gorgeous girlfriend and I know I'm out of her league, but when she tells me I'm handsome it boosts my confidence and it has helped me feel more attractive. My look hasn't changed at all, but I feel more attractive and others find me more attractive now that I've gained it. I still have AWFUL confidence, but it getting better just a little made me so much more attractive. Confidence is key

kila5454 · 2020-11-08T16:16:46+00:00

First off, thinking that women are "out of your league" is a terrible thought pattern that will make you lose women that would work with you. Do not use this terminology ever again. No woman is "out of your league", you simply have to realize that you're the guy that would give them more unique value than any other if they were to be with you. If they don't see that, it's their problem. It doesn't take much to feel this way and truly believe this. You have to develop more self-worth. I would suggest that you read The Six Pillars of Self-Esteem. There is a ton of information regarding pick up online as well, look up Todd Valentine or RSD instructors for useful content.

Secondly, you need to develop the skills to attract women, I started going out consistently at age 17 after I read The Game. There's no secret, it's just a skill set that you have to develop. Since I started early, I attracted the first woman that I felt was my personal 9 as a girlfriend when I was a junior in college. I knew exactly what I was doing when it worked out for me. You have to go out consistently and speak with women. Going to parks seems like your only option at the moment until bars reopen. Another thing you could do that really helped my Game is canvassing. Going door to door to raise money is very similar to gaming in that you are trying to get strangers to give you their time all day. That taught me a lot.

AsunaGhoul · 2020-11-08T16:33:28+00:00

Focusing on just girls will make u depress or resentful. Just chill out and be happy single for a while and things will work out for u

somethingwithpudding · 2020-11-08T16:34:43+00:00

Y’all need Buddha

Sweet_Ad_8497 · 2020-11-08T16:48:01+00:00

Focus on your purpose. When socializing, forget about sex and focus on connection. It will make your life easier.

theforgeproject · 2020-11-08T16:58:30+00:00

What do you mean, “league”? What is this?

MisterOkeyDokey · 2020-11-08T17:00:50+00:00

Just be the best at something, have a thing. Don't be dull. Girls like go getters

Yunchansamakun · 2020-11-08T17:11:01+00:00

Two years ago, I was an average person who somehow got into a social group where people are close friends except me. There's this beautiful girl I had a crush on, but there's a bunch of other guys who come in and approached her, I was too shy to go for it back then and felt pathetic about it. That's when the thought came to be... Well, after days of thinking of course

"Even if I approach her, I got nothing to share. Even if I got into a relationship, I can't support." Thus, born a new mindset that could motivate even the smallest of hermit crabs (me).

Well long story short, I worked my ass off by exercising, studying, practice some social skills, practice MORE skills, made connections, joining groups and socialize a bit more within those two years. Just because of the thought that I might ruin a relationship by being such a messy being.

Now imagine all of that shit and think about the athletes, just the athletes, not the rest. They've done a lot more shit than I did in those two years. Can't blame the girls for being attracted to such a man. Nevermind that some of them are assholes, they still did their best working for something.

Fast forward to now, which i'm currently 20, the girl I'm having a crush for the past 2 years on finally contacted me, we talked a bit before so we're basically friends. Realizing we have the same interest in manga we started sharing more recommendations, it was heartwarming. I still have a lot to learn and I don't want to be in a relationship yet, I'm pretty sure she's also giving her all and I can't just sit like that and do nothing.

So what did I do to start getting a girl that is way out of my league?

Improve myself in different aspects. Studies, social, physical, emotional (I used to have anger problems). I stopped being average, I decided to not be average.

I'm pretty sure you just don't want to be average anymore. Since I can taste a bit of salt from your post

wienerte · 2020-11-08T17:19:31+00:00

My advice is to be respectful and genuinely nice to these girls you are dating. Hot guys are nothing if they don't have brains or a passion. I'm a 21f and I agree that people in our age group are pretty shallow. Maybe try and find a girl you connect with on a social level and go from there! Dating apps lile tinder don't give girls the impression you wamt to date, more to just fuck.

Alan0104 · 2020-11-08T17:37:20+00:00

It just happened naturally to me as I stopped overthinking about the value I give myself and the value I give hotter women. Once I started to respect myself more and more, that self love is subconsciously shown to anyone who sociaizes with you, very subtly. How do you attain something like this? Experience with the failures and successes you’ve had in improving yourself. The life lessons you’ve learned from mistakes you’ve made. Making progress in the goals you’ve set out for the year. And at the end of it, to learn to stop giving two shits about most things, because at the end of the day, worrying doesn’t solve a single problem in your life. Also, I’m about the same age as you.

The420Conspiracy · 2020-11-08T18:06:47+00:00

I used to have a good job and be in really good shape before I let myself go a bit. I'll be honest I got alot more attention from girls but didn't really do much because I was still unconfident deep down and had alot of bad habits. I'm going to work out again and put my life back on track and focus on my career. This time I'll do it properly and become the person I want to be.

nine4oneam · 2020-11-08T18:10:36+00:00

I'd hardly say you're average. I'm surprised you're even struggling to be honest.

But, taking looks out of the equation, I'd say the way a guy composes himself goes a long way. By this, I mean confidence and being self-assured. There are plenty of guys that aren't conventionally attractive yet get a lot more attention due to their presence in a room, and it usually heightens their attractiveness as well.

As well as this, I know a lot of beautiful girls who haven't dated anyone yet, many of whom are simply too scared to make a move. We belong to a generation so dependent on technology that we can get through life without having to actually speak to people sometimes, so just having that confidence to make the first move can really set you apart and make a girl's day.

As scary as it is, ask a girl out if you think she's hot, even if she is 'out of your league'. You have a 50% chance of scoring a date, which is 50% more than not asking at all. The worst that can happen is a 'No', and most girls would be incredibly polite about it. Not every girl will say no, I'm sure.

However, I can't speak for all girls, some of whom are only invested in looks. I can assure you that they are the minority, but nonetheless, they exist. Plus, I'm British- things might be different over there.

Also, if you're convinced that someone is leagues above you, you've already admitted defeat.

CH705-807 · 2020-11-08T18:11:15+00:00

Become great. No girl will resist someone who is or is becoming 'great'. Cheers.

shaggy1452 · 2020-11-08T18:15:46+00:00

As corny as it sounds, i manifested that shit. If one shot me down, i’d just smile and say some cheesy shit like “don’t worry, you’re gonna love me!!” With a big playful grin then continue making conversation either with her friends, or with her if she’s alone. Even if you’re not that fun, if you just act like you’re always having the most fun, people want to hang out with that guy, people, and if you try again later and she shoots you down again? Brush it off with a smile again and go back to being the most fun guy in the room. Reality is little more than perception, and if you’re perceived as a cool, fun guy, who everyone loves, then you will be a cool fun guy who everyone loves, and hot girls love to be with that guy.

3bearsgonetomarket · 2020-11-08T18:48:16+00:00

My advice would be become good at anything decentlyrelevent. Girls want someone who owns there future and in turn theirs.

Once that happened to me, i had my choice.

ISmellHats · 2020-11-08T18:55:25+00:00

This subreddit gets peppered with posts and comments alike reducing women to shallow objects only going after “hot chads who treat them like shit,” and not only does that mentality scream neck bearded nice guy, it’s a textbook way of projecting insecurities on to women because the guy is too incapable and inept to establish a connection with a woman. Do you know why those guys do so well with women? Because they’re confident, attractive, aren’t afraid to show off their interests, and genuinely believe they have value. You say women at your age are shallow but what are you doing at this exact moment by lumping them all in one basket? You too are being shallow. Look, 21 is still young. You’re at an age where you’re further developing social identity. Start building out who you are as a person and you’ll organically start to have opportunities present themselves to talk with women. But keep in mind, most of the women I’ve encountered over the years aren’t looking for some coward who’s too afraid to approach them.

Plus, let’s cut the shit here, men are incredibly superficial physically so to judge women for doing the same thing is insane. You already got rated by randoms on Reddit who seemed to agree you’re about an 8 without taking in to account improvements you can make. Clearly looks aren’t the issue. Clearly there’s more to it than “the hot frat guys are better than me”.

Social proof or status are ridiculous notions. You carry your social weight with you. If 10 people are in a room and nobody knows each other, you’ll see the cream rise to the top. The way you carry and present yourself means everything. If I act insecure and then take a faked interest in a girl because I just want to get laid, everyone can tell and she’s going to reject me, unless she’s incredibly desperate.

Dating apps can be useful. Sometimes. I haven’t used one in years personally but think they can be a positive environment for you to practice texting, meeting, and talking to women. My suggestion would be to focus on 3-4 hobbies you really enjoy, become better at them, and start associating with a crowd that is involved with those hobbies. You’ll naturally meet women (in person) that have an organic interest in the same things as you. Allows for easy conversation starters and you know they’re going to like some of the things you already do without guessing. Win-Win.

Women are horny, intelligent, individualized, unique, self-conscious creatures just like men. They have the same insecurities, sometimes worse, and the same interests as you. But just like every guy is different, so is every girl, so to lump them all in one big melting pot and write them all off by basically saying “They just want Chad and not a nice guy like me” is childish.

Go put yourself out there. Talk to women. Take a genuine interest in them as a person and not just some piece of meat you want to bang. Even if you don’t sleep with them or get a date, women make great friends and can teach you a lot. I have dinner planned this evening with a female friend and it’s strictly platonic. Nobody will tell you more about what is and isn’t right than a female friend. Women aren’t stupid. They can smell your insecurity and bullshit a mile away. Start being confident in what makes you unique and then be proud to show it to the world. Nobody wants an endlessly weak partner who’s incapable of taking chances. There’s no “special line” or “trick” to make women want to sleep with you. All women are different, confidence is sexy, and you’ll get rejected a lot more than you’ll succeed.

I always tell my friends that it isn’t necessarily what you say, but how you say it, that matters when talking to the opposite sex. Also keep in mind that if you ask out 10 women, nobody will remember the 9 who rejected you. They only remember the one who said yes.

Be respectful. Be honest. Be bold. Be YOU.

If all you do is tip toe around hoping you’ll eventually just land in bed with somebody, you’re mistaken. Quit being jealous or others and think about what makes you special.

SylAbys · 2020-11-08T19:02:08+00:00

I got LUCKY. In my lifetime i had 2 Gorgeously sexy over the top way above my league Women approach me and began convo. 1 ended in a 3 yr relationship. The other ended on 1yr FWB .

Sirregenaldpooppypot · 2020-11-08T19:03:15+00:00

Put myself out there, went to where hotties hung around and established myself there. You have to go where a 10 goes, the nicer club, the beach, strip club etc

Being rich and jacked is a bonus but girls still won’t come to you 9 times out of ten, you have to go to where the woman are and have some social proof. Make friends with gay guys. Seriously they will get you hotties. Make friends with one hottie they will get you a hottie.

I’m sick of seeing ugly ass bums with hotties and on here all the advice is get rich and jacked be an entrepreneur and all that. That’s not seduction that’s other life shit. Learn PUA fundamentals, buy RSD videos, listen to lots of pick up artists that other artist say are good.

ThenIJizzedInMyPants · 2020-11-08T19:10:19+00:00

Have you read any materials on this? Start with the sidebar. Read Models by Mark Manson. Tonnes of great advice in there.

FaP_caligula · 2020-11-08T19:11:37+00:00

Feeling is the secret.

Feel you are a BO$$ and not a average niceguy guy. Build a self image that is GODLIKE!

According to them confidence boosters, your self concept is far from godlike -- you get what you focus on.

starfire_xes · 2020-11-08T19:34:49+00:00

What is an average guy?

dodged_that_one · 2020-11-08T19:42:02+00:00

To a large degree, we're all shallow. Let's get that out of the way. We're genetically programmed to want to mate with people we see as having good genes. The obvious expression of good genes is physical attractiveness. Women want to have relationships with men who will give them healthy, attractive children - even if they're not looking for that right now.

Average is ok. WIth work you can improve on that in terms of fitness, dress, money etc. Then you need to think about engaging with women in a way that is as deep as possible. What's as far away from Tinder as you can get? People's feelings are what make them attracted. If you're lucky, your looks are enough to elicit those feelings. If they're not, you need to make your words and actions do that. That means bars and clubs won't do it for you, they are meat-markets, you need to find places where you can engage women with conversation.

harrysapien · 2020-11-08T19:55:25+00:00

Here is the existential question you need to ask yourself.

Why would you an "average guy" need a girl "out of your league"? Why do you desire that? Why do you expect a girl "out of your league" to be happy with an "average guy" when you are an "average guy" and are unhappy with a "average girl"?

Reverse the question. Why as an "average guy" don't you date a woman that is "below average". I'm sure there are plenty of girls that are very unattractive that would bend over backwards and be a great girlfriend to you. Why don't you pursue them?

Understanding the question and the answer to that question will actually enable you to get girls that are "out of your league".

kokietheturtle · 2020-11-08T19:59:19+00:00

i’m a girl and i’m 17. i would much rather pick a guy that’s thoughtful and doesn’t care much about status rather than a hot fuckboy that’s always talking to 10 girls. the girls that fall head over heels when a fuckboy texts them “wyd” are the same girls that get cheated on by that same guy. those girls lack self-respect and self-love. you’ll find a girl that’ll appreciate ur efforts. after all, would you really wanna date a girl that only cares about status and looks??

caligrown_85 · 2020-11-08T20:14:32+00:00

After i got my masters degree, started my own business, and moved into my own house.

SekChobo2 · 2020-11-08T20:20:40+00:00

I just stopped seeing them as “ out of my league “ everybody just regular to me tbh..

NumerousImprovements · 2020-11-08T20:46:29+00:00

Like others have touched on, the best way to get better quality girls is to be a better quality guy. Once I figured this out, it wasn’t long. Working out was the biggest bang for my buck. It is the best feeling to have a girl you think is hot in bed just admiring your body. 10/10 would recommend you put in the time to achieve a quality body at some stage in your life.

The other thing I wanted to say though is that I don’t think these women were actually out of my league, I think I was just underestimating myself. Obviously it’s not all confidence and fake it till you make it, you have to be able to back it up, but if you believe a girl is out of your league, she is.

Lord-of-Circles · 2020-11-08T20:52:40+00:00

If you start seeing any woman as "out of your league" then you're going to start swimming in a river of shit.

No woman is out of your league.

Mr_82 · 2020-11-08T22:25:21+00:00

You didn't sound shallow at all, you sounded honest. Honestly, not writing that edit (and doing similar behaviors) would probably help you with girls too.

Girls are especially shallow at the ages you've described, and it's simply a fact. (Edit: Good news here though is that now you, as a guy, don't have to apologize for also being shallow. And overall, time is more on the guy's side too.)

2020-11-08T23:25:09+00:00

Well, first of all, dont think of them as out of your league. They are lucky for having me and you. No girl is out of my league. If she doesn't want me, all good, nothing personal. Her loss.

StephenDawg · 2020-11-09T01:23:19+00:00

Once you hit your later 20s you're no longer like the other 22 year old guys at their college - if you do the right things reasonably well, they start tripping over themselves for that.

siddharthsingh_7 · 2020-11-09T01:51:17+00:00

Bro r u looking for love? R u looking to get laid? Or r u just lonely?

benerdelyi · 2020-11-09T04:47:52+00:00

I know how this feels bro. If I could go back to my college self I would just tell him to simply be the social guy, go to frat/society events and focus on improving yourself.

Think long term.

Thesethingsmattertoo · 2020-11-09T05:03:39+00:00

Hey dude, just saw your images on "am I ugly". You're freaking hot (that's what my friend said, girl).

I think you are just jealous of other guys and that happens!

You probably think that you wasted your teens that you didn't do any athletic activities.

But, that's past dude.

You need to talk to everyone without expectations, if you come off as a needy dude, irrespective of how you look, you won't get laid.

These sport guys etc get eyeballs from a lot of women, that's great. They have different kind of traps though.

But women value people who are above them.

For example, if a chick is into instagram a lot, she will consider a 1M follower guy hot af even if he looks like a truck.

So build your social value, that's what they look at, sex should be a win for them (as if they are getting that social validation from you, as they get from athletes)

And, don't go and fucking tell everyone what your intentions are. That's just needy and sex is a private moment (should be enjoyed privately till you have other kinks)

And read about women anatomy, how you can give her multiple orgasms (oral first)

You can learn oral through reading but you need a lot of practice to be good at sex. Most guys think they are good, that's their short coming.

And yeah, stop watching porn.

And read everything on this thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/11ng7n/above_the_game_intro_my_story_preview_of_my/

All the best dude! You will fucking kill it.

trouble-kinda · 2020-11-09T05:53:29+00:00

Do you want a relationship with a super shallow hotie?? Dedicate your time to someone like that? No you don't. That's trying to get laid, and its a very different goal. That's why you're left out, you're playing the wrong game.

Want to know where the good ones are? Smart, financially sound, dedicated, focused. They are in the library. Seriously. I grew up in Eugene, OR. This worked for me for years. I'm 39 and I still pull moms at the library when I take my kids on Saturdays. Worst that happens? You read a lot more. As for the out of your league thing- most of that is a tube top and make-up. Google porn stars without make-up. Its enlightening.

Want to seal the deal? Finally find a keeper? Take her somewhere that is special to you, and tell her why its special to you. Then tell her that she is special to you. It works.

BestTens · 2020-11-09T06:37:37+00:00

Okay it’s seems to me that you only want hot fuckgirls. by not getting girls you meant that you are not getting hot girl, when in real you are ignoring average girls who might be interested. If you are rejecting average looking college girls you are getting same treatment from hot looking girls. So, start with looking for average girls not for sex but to really meet, and gradually make your way up to those hot girls.

deathray-toaster · 2020-11-09T09:24:17+00:00

I don’t really like to think of women as above my league. Sure, there are plenty of women who would be considered more attractive than I am. But if I see someone I like I’m gonna give it a shot, because they’re no more human than I, they’re just pretty.
Just like you,I have found that I’m more attractive than I thought for a very long time. And I’m not settling anymore. It’ll just hurt her feelings in the end. Maybe my standards are a little too high. But I’m not gonna date someone I’m not really interested in.

Hoizengerd · 2020-11-09T09:45:49+00:00

bro you are not average. if you started asking girls out you'd get a girlfriend fast. unless you're like 5 foot 2

watch some of James Marshall's (the aussie guy) street approach videos if you have no clue how to go about starting conversations with a girl

https://www.youtube.com/c/TheNaturalLifestyles/videos

Nayilenja · 2020-11-09T16:12:35+00:00

girls arent that special bro just get your own place to stay, a car just for the purpose of being mobile (no need for a sports car) and a bit of cash to buy the occasional vodka bottle...its funny we say get jacked and get money yet 90% of guys slaying pussy are actually very average joes in fact one of my friends has over 40 body counts he's in ok shape has no money, stays in a room like one literal room has no car so i think sometimes as bros we tend to over value these hoes

OhSnapItsLiv · 2020-11-10T13:49:07+00:00

As a 21 year old college student, who also happens to be a girl, those popular “frat” guys (in Australia we don’t really have that but we do have those stereotypical douchey looking guys) are extremely unattractive to me. I can’t say I haven’t dated conventionally good looking people, but I never have that “spark” if you will - they’re a bit dull. I had a look at your r/amiugly post and can confirm that you are in fact very good looking. If I saw you on campus, I wouldn’t go up to you because I’d think you wouldn’t give me the time of day, but I would look twice! My advice is to be confident in WHO you are, rather than what you look like. You’re the kind of guy we women want to father our babies :p

Title	As an average guy, when did you finally start getting girls you considered out of you leauge, and what did you do to achieve that?
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	540
Comments	192
Date	November 8, 2020 5:23 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/jq69xl/as_an_average_guy_when_did_you_finally_start/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/as-an-average-guy-when-did-you-finally-start.1505318 https://theredarchive.com/post/1505318

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