Witholding Sex In a Relationship

Whiteliesmatter1 · 2018-06-28T02:22:21+00:00

You are looking at this with the wrong perspective. If sex is used as a tool of manipulation, it ruins its appeal for both partners. It breeds resentment for both only and will poison both the sex and the relationship.

If she is genuinely not attracted then fair enough but consciously withholding because she isn’t getting what she wants? Red flag! It is like the husband withholding money from a wife if he is the breadwinner until he gets his blowjob. Gross.

cxj · 2018-06-28T02:09:56+00:00

From what I’ve seen a lot of women’s “problems wit the relationship” are simply non addressable. There just aren’t enough hours in the day to work 8-10 hours plus commute, cook healthy meals and exercise, take care of kids, clean the house and have time for dates together or whatever. Americans lock themselves into an unsustainable treadmill lifestyle of consumption and debt then become unhappy. Tons of women just seem implacable and everything her husband does angers her even his attempts at solving her shit. Even alphas face this, there is just no winning

concacanca · 2018-06-28T02:38:15+00:00

If the depths of your love is a few dirty dishes deep then you shouldn't have been married anyway.

Sex is air in a relationship. Cut it off and you can live for a little while but it's inevitably doomed. It strikes me that there are more constructive ways to deal with conflict than going nuclear like this.

Talono · 2018-06-28T02:24:14+00:00

Sounds like your talking to MERPers rather than TERPs, so I'll answer.

We say all the time that you shouldn't settle for starfish sex. It's good sex or nothing.

We also say that she isn't having sex with you because she isn't attracted to you because your NOT ATTRACTIVE!!

So we tell these drunk captains to turn off the xbox, put down the 6 pack of beer and become an awesome man that lots of women want to fuck... your wife included. This includes having your day full of shit that is improving your house and your life.

Aggressive_Beta · 2018-06-28T02:50:56+00:00

A lot of Terps suggested that women should have sex with their husbands anyways, because it’s their “job”.

Any RPer who suggested that doens't understand RP theory. First of all, RPers say that men should never get married period. Second, it's not a woman's job to have sex with you. It's the man's job to be attractive enough that the woman wants to have sex with him. If she's not attracted to him it's his problem, not hers.

But if she does, what then motivates a man to do better?

Exactly, he would have zero incentive. Women biologically evolved dead bedrooming as a way to select betas out of the gene pool.

if sex is the only thing that gets you to pay attention to the problems in the relationship, isn’t she kind of right to withhold it? Isnt it kind of your fault?

Why should she reward continuous bad behavior with sex knowing you’ll now have no initiative to change?

She's right to withhold sex for whatever reason she wants. In response, the man is also right to leave the relationship or cheat if he wants.

How does your wife barter or motivate your improvement if not via sex?

Not married, but a woman doesn't motivate me to improve at all. A man's motivation for improvement should come from within. If he needs motivation from his woman to improve, he is going to have a bad time.

Taipanshimshon · 2018-06-28T02:12:41+00:00

If sex is your reward for( his ) good behavior, you’re a whore.

Katinka-pie · 2018-06-28T05:54:19+00:00

Usually I don't have anything to contribute to a dead bedroom discussion, but today I do.

So I am not withholding sex, but I don't really feel connected to my partner currently. Stupid fucking World Football thing is happening, so he is spending every waking moment watching/betting/reading about it. It sucks. I don't need attention all the time, but when we are having dinner and he is on his phone yet again checking the score(while a match is going on the TV) it does make me not happy. I have talked to him about it and he has promised to at least put away his phone when we have dinner... And maybe even some conversation. It worked for 30 min or so.

After about 2-3 weeks of this, it's very hard to want to fuck when he only pays attention to me right before bed and after the last game of the day is over. So we haven't had sex in 4 days. I am frustrated and snappy. Can't wait for stupid Worlds to be over.

Uncommon_Sense_12345 · 2018-06-28T02:23:56+00:00

Even if the husband was not satisfying all her needs in the relationship to withhold sex is cruel. The punishment doesn't fit the "crime" so to speak.

Marriage should not work on a system of rewards. Marital sex is to be shared. To cut a man off from sex is to cut him off from a promise you made with vows. Because men tend to show love and receive love through sex, you are playing with fire using the withholding game.

Bartering is for a flea market not for getting your needs met in a marriage.

One option for getting her husband to focus more on her needs is to make sure his needs are being met. Most women will not do this and would rather stay at a stalemate than be the first to bend. Sometimes you have to lose the battle to win the war.

Making sure your husband feels loved and respected is the first step to getting his attention. Withholding sex is a counterproductive strategy and actually backfires because sex in marriage is not a commodity but a form of love that binds.

hammerhaunts · 2018-06-28T02:23:27+00:00

if sex is the only thing that gets you to pay attention to the problems in the relationship, isn’t she kind of right to withhold it? Isnt it kind of your fault?

It works for the time being, but it does not leave both people in a healthy mindset of loving each other afterwards

How does your wife barter or motivate your improvement if not via sex?

Having to barter is a sign things have already gone downhill

Ercole_ · 2018-06-28T02:32:32+00:00

This should really be a non issue. How you gonna marry a girl who can last more than a few days without fucking you?

clindh · 2018-06-28T06:01:09+00:00

Sex should never be thought of as a "reward" for me. I'm not gonna enjoy sex if you're only giving it to me as a "reward". You should be having sex with me because it feels good and we both enjoy it. I'm not sure why so many dudes let women get away with this mentality, it's fucking disgusting. If your relationship has already gotten to the point where she's giving you sex as a reward.... fuuuuuck that shit I'm gonna go find someone who actually wants to have sex with me

whichbladeN · 2018-06-28T03:03:55+00:00

My philosophy is to keep my partner happy.

If I'm so disappointed and resentful of him that I have no drive to make him happy, then we need a come to Jesus. Like... do you care about the health and longevity of the relationship or not? Anytime I feel less interested in sex for whatever reason, I get introspective and remember that I'm with someone I want to be with.

I guess marriage really changes people and they stop worrying about the health of the relationship because it's been locked down.

N0blesse0blige · 2018-06-28T03:12:52+00:00

You either lack or withhold insight into female psychology. If a woman is actively portioning out sex and controlling her husband’s behavior by using sex as a reward, and even knows she is doing it, she has already become the dominant party and has lost considerable respect for her husband.

Feminists sell this kind of poison. "Relationships are about communication". Sure. When it’s already working, when the man is already respected and in control. Within reason. If he’s not though, then a relationship is frequently about the man taking back control and once again putting himself in a position of respect. Equality – in the psychological sense that the man is not distinguishing himself with higher status and being in control, is poison to a normal heterosexual relationship. It is nearly never about chores and routines in the home. If a woman respects and loves a man she will gladly cook and clean – and make up the excuses as she goes along – and if two grown adults work full time, they should be able to rent a cleaning lady to keep the house between them.

My plate is a hardcore feminist. She admits to me that women were probably a lot happier in the 50s, and that men who treat women as equals and promote equality in the home are not attractive. Thing is, if women liked real equality they’d just date the nice guys who were raised by feminism in the first place. She’s a good girl though. Kind and good-hearted, and naive. The kind that just wants everyone to be good to each other – and thus buys into all the fucking crap leftism sells. That’s why she’s (still) a feminist.

Of course this is a question of what modern feminists want. Those who are in the know want to destroy the nuclear family, because bla bla bla it’s a patriarchical institution bla bla bla. Then don’t fucking pose as mariage counselors and fucking solvers of relationship problems. Be upfront about your destructive, shitty purposes.

Jammerly1 · 2018-06-28T03:00:52+00:00

if sex is the only thing that gets you to pay attention to the problems in the relationship, isn’t she kind of right to withhold it? Isnt it kind of your fault?

You have a right to withhold sex, he has the right to rethink if he wanna maintain the relationship because you couldn't talk like you supposed to. I expect you to be a grown women, and you have a functioning mouth, if you could only express a "problems in the relationship" by refraining the man from one of the mallow's basic needs of your husband and one of the pillars of a adult relationship, it is only your fault to not be able to talk or use any less damaging alternative first.

Why should she reward continuous bad behavior with sex knowing you’ll now have no initiative to change?

Because you, by this behavior, will make an spiral to destroy the relationship. does he stop buying your foods if he needs you to work more on the diet? does he stop giving you love to make you work on that dissertation? no. so why do you take away one of the attributes that maintain the relationship? if you want something to change, talk clearly and reinforce with positive reinforcement to take away their happiness, even for their own good, without their consent is just abuse and corrotes a relationship.

How does your wife barter or motivate your improvement if not via sex?

Any positive reinforcement you can give. don't you have any other talent? cooking? dancing? massaging? singing? gaming? heck, my ex used to reinforce my diet by having MORE sex and my first one used to play games with me so I would help her with english. Even some other less destructive negative reinforcement, like no favorite food, or just plain nagging. anything really. I would recommend using intrinsic motivators, nor external ones, men deal really bad with external motivators.

reluctantly_red · 2018-06-28T03:32:04+00:00

I don't want to have sex with anyone who doesn't want to have sex with me. If a woman wants to withhold sex that's her prerogative. However, she has to understand that she's not the only woman in the world. If she doesn't want to have sex -- fine -- I'll find someone who does.

sublimemongrel · 2018-06-28T02:03:30+00:00

I mean personally I totally get what you're saying, logically it makes sense. But I am camp blue and I do not think manipulative power plays like that ultimately benefit anyone. Withholding sex as a manipulative tool to inspire change is similar to active dread to me. So I guess the reasonable TRP answer would be "only use it if nothing else has worked, it's a last ditch effort before you serve him the papers." But again as a bloop it is not an approach I agree with.

(also this is labeled discussion but might be more of a Q4M?) if so let me know and I will throw this on the automod.

Barely-moral · 2018-06-28T03:11:39+00:00

I appreciate my partner so she can talk to me and say what she wants me to do as the adult she is.

I don't need any other motivation. If she can explain what she wants in a clear way, I can and will give that to her. That is part of the deal.

If my partner does not fullfill her part of the deal as a power play in order to motivate me to do something then I would take her to the doctor because she has memory issues.

Since the beginning of our relationship she can ask anything from me, changes on my behavior included. And every time she asked for something I provided. She knows that communicating clearly is the way to get things from me and that playing games is the way to lose me.

When she asks for something that seems like a bad idea or a shit test I explain to her my doubts, I tell her how I see things going if I obey her petition. I ask again if that is what she really wants me to do.

If she still wants me to do that I'll do it and hold her responsible for what she asked for if she does not like it when she gets it.

Willow-girl · 2018-06-28T04:09:07+00:00

Don't play games. Just don't. That's my best advice.

wtknight · 2018-06-28T11:18:41+00:00

Problems in relationships should be resolved by communication, not by holding grudges. It's obvious that a woman is not going to want to have sex right away after a big fight if what brought on the fight is not resolved, but if her long-term reaction to conflict is to not be willing to communicate and compromise and to just punish a man by withholding sex, then this seems like a power grab on her part rather than making an honest effort to resolve problems, and shows that she is not really making an effort to have the relationship be on an egalitarian footing.

STYMPHALISTbobolyne · 2018-07-02T16:33:58+00:00

Here's an idea.

How about women STOP MARRYING THESE MEN THEY'RE NOT SEXUALLY ATTRACTED TO???

If you don't like fucking them, DON'T. MARRY. THEM.

Jcart105 · 2018-06-28T10:42:16+00:00

It's not continuous bad behavior. It's that men do everything their wife wants them to do (or at least in the form of instruction), which ironically leads to the wife becoming less attracted to their husband — and thus, less likely to have sex with their husbands.

I don't know if you stated it, but I'm getting the vibe that you're hinting at household work/chore distribution. Honestly, this is usually a bullshit argument. If the man is making more money and working longer hours (which they typically are in most marriages), then you should pick up the slack at home. Fuck all this "50/50" bullshit if you're not bringing in an equivalent amount as he is in terms of income — on top of this, most of the more physical chores already default to the male in allocation.

Popeman79 · 2018-06-28T11:38:22+00:00

OP, you raise very valid questions, and all your comments are civil and seeking discussion. You're getting a lot of insults back which is unfortunate.

Your first point (should a woman withhold sex as a bagaining power?) has been already answered by others: no, it's a bad idea alltogether. Your second point (what bargaining power do women have that it not sex?) is very interesting and deserves more attention. I kinda agree with you that men learn mainly through hardships and loss. But at the same time, loss of sex is akin to a loss of a basic means of subsistence, like money or food almost.

I would say the bargaining power lies in enthusiastic sex with him. If your man is a slob and doesn't pull his part, give him starfish sex but withdraw nurture, sexy, enthusiasm. And tell him why you feel less attracted and not cared for now. He should at the same time be appreciative that his woman still will perform her bedroom duties, and hurt/shaken enough to undergo some changes.

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Bedtimeshine · 2018-06-28T05:50:57+00:00

Women having sex with their husbands because it’s their “job” isn’t even close to what trp says. As a matter fact.. it’s quite the opposite... trp says it’s not her job... not even close. And there are no short cuts. It’s because you aren’t owning your shit and acting like a leader and/or you look like shit. It should have nothing to do with reward or punishment. And it shouldn’t be something she gives him. She should want to fuck him. And if she doesn’t he needs to make big changes on how he looks and acts.

[deleted] · 2018-06-28T08:42:38+00:00

Being a Muslim gives me more comfort than these non-Muslim men; once married, I become entitled to my wife's time and sex.

Obviously through means other than marital rape; if a Muslim man calls his Muslim wife for sex, and she withholds it for any petty ass reason, she invites the curse of Allah's angels upon her.

Yes; " upon HER", exclusively.

SilentLurker666 · 2018-06-28T10:08:21+00:00

if sex is the only thing that gets you to pay attention to the problems in the relationship, isn’t she kind of right to withhold it? Isnt it kind of your fault?

Honestly, if sex is the only thing that gets your husband to pay attention to you... the relationship (and partially yourself) has a problem.

Why should she reward continuous bad behavior with sex knowing you’ll now have no initiative to change?

Because positive reinforcement also works? It's hilarious that people in this day of age won't punish their kids misdeed, but it's all too happy for using a tit-for-tat strategy to deal with relationship between two grown adults.

DerelictCruiser · 2018-06-28T10:52:55+00:00

The problem with withholding sex to dis-incentivize negative behavior is that even if it works, the woman is often going to be even less attracted to her man anyway for being extorted via sex.

It's a lose-lose for men, really. Disdain is the easiest emotion to invoke in a woman.

DXBrigade · 2018-06-28T11:17:27+00:00

I like how pillers use the word "witholding" as if there was some malevolence involved. But people don't owe sex to their spouse and sex isn't there to reward the "good" husband. The main reason, women don't want to have sex with their husband is because they aren't attracted anymore.

VermiciousKnidzz · 2018-06-28T14:06:20+00:00

if sex is the only thing that gets you to pay attention to the problems in the relationship, isn’t she kind of right to withhold it? Isnt it kind of your fault?

witholding sex instead of just talking about something is pretty dysfunctional. it shouldnt be a reward or function of power over someone else. hypothetical couple needs to communicate better. communication seems to scare a lot of people.

Why should she reward continuous bad behavior with sex knowing you’ll now have no initiative to change?

she shouldnt, because itll only lead to the problems becoming worse and will feed resentment. if communication doesnt work these people are not compatible.

How does your wife barter or motivate your improvement if not via sex?

"hey can you pick up your clothes"

"yeah sure thing"

or something like that

i dont really need to be told to do chores and we have a good understanding of what we both want, need, and expect. most of this thread is p much a non-issue in our relationship

boredthenyoureboring · 2018-06-28T14:35:28+00:00

If you’re seeing sex as an equivalent trade off for scrubbing toilets, the relationship is already over. What’s the best case scenario here? He does what you want, and then you do him with about as much enthusiasm as he had for doing the dishes? That’s not fun for anyone.

There’s also a million ways it can go wrong. If you tell him outright “no sex until you take out the garbage,” it’s extremely likely he’ll just get upset at being manipulated. If you don’t tell him outright, there’s a good chance he won’t even make the connection which kind of defeats the purpose of training him with good boy treats. But let’s say you successfully hint around it and he doesn’t get pissed and does what you want. You better be ready to bang everytime he cleans something. If you drop the reward even once, it will set you back even further than square one.

I’ve been in a relationship like this. What typically happens is there’s always another excuse, because the problem isn’t the dishes, it’s that she doesn’t want to have sex with her partner. “I don’t want to have sex because you didn’t do XYZ” turns into “I don’t feel appreciated because you only did XYZ for sex.” Or, she realizes she gets what she wants with just the insinuated promise of sex and the bedroom gets deader while the demands get stronger

[deleted] · 2018-06-28T16:38:18+00:00

No, a wife is NEVER EVER correct to withhold sex in a MARRIAGE. Sex is part of marriage and is both parties' obligation. (Women are by far the biggest offenders in withholding sex. I've yet to read a convincing case in which the man withholding sex is causing problems in a marriage.)

I don't give a rat's ass that you're not attracted. Fuck him anyway. You picked him. You married him. You bought him. You take care of him. He's yours now. So take care of him. THAT'S YOUR JOB - a job you WILLINGLY took on and EXPRESSLY said you'd do.

She' not "rewarding bad behavior with sex". She's DOING HER JOB.

Your wife needs to do other things, ANYTHING, except withholding sex.

petrichordium · 2018-06-28T23:54:21+00:00

You're either feeling it or you're not. The same can be said of my enthusiasm to do my job at work.

Then again, sex is generally a large part of the job description for romantic life partners. Thus anyone who "withholds" sex should be about as surprised to get fired as I would be if I simply stopped doing the central functions of my job at work. But then again we all have multiple job descriptions. If a male partner isn't doing his share as a total partner (as Jammerly posits in the question) then he shouldn't expect much sex.

This all seems clear to me. The only thing that isn't clear is why people without massive strings (kids, mortgages, etc) stay in mutually unfulfilling relationships.

(for what it's worth, I am an effete nu-male who just screams beta-cuck to the tradcon and radcon crowd, and yet frankly I am APPALLED by the sexless relationships many of you manly dudes-dudes put up with at home. I'd be a fucking vapor trail of dandy cologne out the door in a TINY fraction of the time y'all put up with that shit. (I speak from happy hour convos with the bro dudes I work with).

darksoldierk · 2018-06-29T00:00:56+00:00

Sex isn't the only thing that gets men to pay attention to the problems in the relationship. It's like, if I said that our car has broken down, and I withhold food from you in order to force you to fix it. They are completely unrelated issues, there are ways to deal with the broken car.

Sex isn't a reward and it isn't a punishment. It's a part of any healthy relationship. If there are problems in the relationship, withholding sex will not solve them. The real question is, why do women have this need to change who men are? This is who he is, and you expected him to change for you and punishing him for not makes YOU the problem, not him.

Maybe my wife should focus on her own improvement instead of focusing on changing me. Maybe I'm happy with who I am, and she was happy with who I am at some point too since she chose to marry me. Withholding sex is not going to change who I am. The way for her to motivate me to do what she wants me to do isn't to manipulate me into doing it, that pushes me away, it's to make me give a shit.

Let me put it this way, if, in my house, I have pictures that she chose out, decorations that she picked out, couches that she wanted, floors that she wanted, walls and colors that she wanted, do you think I'll give a shit about keeping that space clean and nice? No, I won't. Withholding sex isn't going to make me give a shit. That stuff isn't mine, the room isn't mine, I didn't have a say. Why do you think that when men are young, they keep clean cars? because the car is theirs. It's a space they are comfortable in, that they love. You know what happens when the parents of the boys with the cars hold on to the keys and only give the boy's the keys when they do their chores? the boys stop giving a shit about the car. They may do the chores for a bit to get to drive it, but eventually they stop giving a shit about the car when they realize that the car isn't really theirs.

Similarly, if the relationship is a space that men are comfortable with, if the relationship is something that they love, they will give a shit. You know what withholding sex in a relationship does? It makes men hate their relationships. There's no bartering in a relationship, men can't barter, so what right do you think women should have to barter. At worst, if a woman is really unhappy, she gets a divorce and the law makes sure that she is provided for be reallocating income from her husband to her. Men don't even have that, they have no power or ability/motivation to manipulate women into behaving in ways that they want them to behave, so my question to you is, why do you think women should have this power?

[deleted] · 2018-06-29T03:05:20+00:00

If sex is the only thing that gets you to pay attention to the problems in the relationship, isn't she kind of right to withhold it?

If the best way you can get through to your partner is by withholding love and affection, you are either terrible at communicating your needs or you picked a terrible partner.

Why do you want someone who you have to 'train' by using sex as a reward or punishment? Would women think it's fair if the only way to get through to her would be to ignore her or withhold money if she's a stay at home parent? That's not how you treat the person you married. If you use sex to manipulate your partner, it will breed resentment and eventually destroy your marriage. Learn how to communicate without needing to play games and manipulate or leave.

rainisthelife · 2018-06-29T13:19:19+00:00

Yes that's what women did for AGES. You think you posted something original? It is now men's turn to withhold attention, money and other stuff.

GirlsHateMtgplayers · 2018-06-30T17:19:54+00:00

If sex with your boyfriend/husband is so meh to you, that you don't mind not doing it for an extended period of time; you aren't dating the right guy. That type of relationship is bound to fail.

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PumpkinspiceZeus69 · 2018-06-28T14:11:33+00:00

Women don't communicate their sexual desires effectively. Men can't read minds and women think everything should be obvious when in reality it isn't. Also I'll be damned if my wife tried to barter with me using sex, first I'm not dumb enough to get married, but second if that's the by case I will just get sexual pleasure elsewhere, either via porn or investing into one of those super duper sex dolls

[deleted] · 2018-06-28T17:00:07+00:00

Here's an idea.

How about women STOP MARRYING THESE MEN THEY'RE NOT SEXUALLY ATTRACTED TO???

If you don't like fucking them, DON'T. MARRY. THEM.

LowCreddit · 2018-06-28T19:28:52+00:00

if sex is the only thing that gets you to pay attention to the problems in the relationship, isn’t she kind of right to withhold it? Isnt it kind of your fault?

It is a man's responsibility, but it has nothing to do with "problems in the relationship." He has become unattractive in her eyes and so she is now causing problems to chase him away.

Why should she reward continuous bad behavior with sex knowing you’ll now have no initiative to change?

The fact that you see sex as a reward is the problem. The second that happens, the relationship is over. You are trying to lord over him companionship in order to have him do the dishes. He is now a child in your eyes, a servant to be rewarded and punished.

How does your wife barter or motivate your improvement if not via sex?

By having reasonable conversations with each other. This is what adults do. I would like women to withhold sex though. Then he can find TRP in desperation, learn the truth, and dump his abusive partner. I am not joking. I want every woman to withhold sex from their men so that TRP grows and we can move past this insanity.

Ithinkthatsthepoint · 2018-06-29T06:39:25+00:00

This is how a chick gets dumped or cheated on

Title	Witholding Sex In a Relationship
Author	Jammerly1
Upvotes	21
Comments	458
Date	June 28, 2018 1:53 AM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/8ufdka/witholding_sex_in_a_relationship/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/witholding-sex-in-a-relationship.261742 https://theredarchive.com/post/261742

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