Discussion: But seriously, why isn't anyone dispensing red pill dating advice without the over the top craziness? You know, do the same fundamental thing, but like a normal person

fakeaccount687 · 2020-04-01T23:02:25+00:00

There are reasonable people that give good advice, its just that people want clear shortcuts or tricks. They want a specific method that works everytime.

Example, "I dont know what I want to do with my life, what should I do?"

Good advice: "try new things and see if anything spikes your interest. Do some research maybe."

Bad advice/advice that gets the most likes: "bro fuck purpose get a construction job easy money I make blah blah a year and girls love it."

webernicke · 2020-04-02T00:04:30+00:00

Because dating is adversarial and even the "reasonable" advice like

Get fit/lift, don't be a bitch/doormat, know how to escalate, abundance, banter, DNGAF, be the prize, focus on your mission etc.

is something that people are going to get butthurt about when you look for any deeper explanation beyond "just do it and don't ask any questions."

LeJacquelope · 2020-04-01T23:34:34+00:00

I have wondered this myself before. I actually had it come up today as a passing thought.

If you ask me, a lot of what TRP says in terms of dating, what is means to be a "man", and such can be boiled to very basic levels...

Stoicism, real confidence, where does self-worth come from, how to be well rounded, etc.

Furthermore, i think it is very possible to discuss the general differences between the reality of dating as an average man/woman without making some huge conclusions and stuff.

My theory is, that at some point, a lot of what people describe as "incels" and "betas" came to male-focused forums and subs, learned what the hell they were doing wrong, but never quite let go of whatever resentment they had.

Some of those forums and subs can be a huge echo chamber too, and whoever disagrees get attacked sometimes.

The biggest factor to me is that there needs to be more discussions between men and women of the reality of dating, sex, and what we generally find attractive.

Barely-moral · 2020-04-01T22:21:56+00:00

There is a sea of information and advice on the internet. The only way to be noticed is by presenting yourself in an inflammatory way.

md8716 · 2020-04-02T00:28:45+00:00

Giving RP advice is like giving a fat dude a diet and workout plan. He has the map to the goal but lacks the willpower to see it through.

TheBookOfSeil · 2020-04-02T04:50:41+00:00

Even without the polarizing spiel, some actual scientific studies and info can lead one side to the same or similar conclusion. You’re not going to have much of a optimistic/positive view of the other side after hearing that men and women have distinct psychological differences.

With women, it’s most typically “Men only care about women’s bodies and think that women’s value stems from their physical appearance and sex,” while with men, it’s typically “Women are opportunistic, disloyal succubi that are attracted to money and won’t hesitate to cuck you if and when benefits them.”

The studies and stats show both to be true, so it just depends on how much of the grey area that you want to look at. Ideally, everyone is trying to avoid being given a raw deal, but there are those out there that are just like the above. Individual differences are severely important to observe for people not looking to get fucked over by others.

There really is no “nice” way to frame human socio-sexual behavior. It’s not meant to be nice. It’s meant to improve or enhance survival.

Edit: content and clarity.

HumanSockPuppet · 2020-04-02T16:25:58+00:00

Same old complaint: "But you being meeeeeeeean"

Being mean is the point.

A man's protective instinct towards women is powerful. Just as a woman's submissive instinct towards men is powerful.

Feminists use extreme language (men are trash/rapists/not to be trusted) when speaking in opposition to the female instinct to submit. They have to in order to get through to their audience.

TRP does the same thing towards it male audience. In order to speak past men's instinct to safeguard and preserve women, we must first convince them that women are trash/exploitative/not to be trusted.

The convincing is not permanent. When a man eventually awakens to the truth, he is able to see and appreciate women for what they are, and not what he dreamed them to be.

NockerJoe · 2020-04-01T22:54:27+00:00

Because reasonable solutions either get ignored or shouted down.

The actual no-pill reality is that psych dudes writing about awkward men were talking about radical feminism and single motherhood and all of that shit already but ignored unless they used more evocative imagery themselves. MRA's who just want to make mens shelters and ignore the politics get targeted by feminist groups who get public or private funding they by no means want to share. Anyone who has any shade of reason is forced to stay in square one unless they go at least slightly crazy. Because you have to simultaneously cut through the noise of all other things being said, while also watching out for people who want to cut you out of the conversation no matter what you actually say.

tropicsGold · 2020-04-02T02:19:23+00:00

Real RP is exactly what you are saying. Anyone else is projecting their own insecurities onto a what should be a very positive movement. If you want to boil it down, I think the main message is that men need to “man up” and become someone a woman wants to have in their bed. Build an attractive body and care for yourself. Be strong and capable of making a woman feel protected and safe, not bitter clingy and insecure. No part of RP is about BLAMing women.

2020-04-02T01:29:38+00:00

I think in large part it's to weed out reasonable people. Trp was always a cult of ego centered on a couple of guys who churned out the content and cultivated their disciples, then monetized it

To cultivate a group that you can manipulate though they all need to be naive and think you're giving them something they can't get anywhere else, and it doesn't hurt to come up with an enemy that's an existential threat and must be railed against

That just brings the group closer together and makes them hostile to outsiders, plus they're less likely to question things within the group if they're focused on an external threat

thedeadpill · 2020-04-02T04:54:23+00:00

This is something that I've wondered about. Here's what I think is happening:

Moderates are quiet.

My own experience in SJW circles has led me to believe that they are completely fucking crazy. Reading TRP... kind of the same conclusion.

There are a ton of people out there in the middle who are probably along the lines of "yeah, like, just lift weights, be kind, try to look out for yourself and others when you can". And realistically, that's all you have to do. But, moderates are quiet. There's sensational/loud TRP, and then screaming/yelling SJWs, but there's no 'incredibly loud middle'.

Everyone who yells the loudest speaks in absolutes. The person who says "I'd rather you not" or "It'd be nice if" is never loud.

And that's why we don't hear them.

DraconianDebate · 2020-04-02T05:35:11+00:00

Plenty of people that agree with some of TRP without the over-the-top crazyness and insistence that all women are evil thots trying to divorce rape you. The difference is that those people are sane, rational individuals with jobs and families. They get crowded out by the nutcases who have nothing better to do than rant on the internet.

_GHOST_BRIDE_MORGANA · 2020-04-02T01:09:30+00:00

In my honest opinion. Men need to ask women what men need to be doing to attract women. Men should seek the advice of women so they can learn how to best attract them but they aren't.

I also suspect that a lot of men already know what they need to be doing to attract women, but don't want to do it because it's not sexy, easy, flashy. It's not outrageous, or dramatic and it's mundane and usual.

To attract most women, men need to:

Be attractive. That means give a fuck about your appearances. Dress to impress. Eat veggies, lift/exercise, Shower, shave, use cologne. Look good, smell good, and take pride in your appearance.
Be successful. Finish that degree, get a good paying job in a respectable field, and earn a decent living.
Be independent. Know how to cook, clean, and live alone. Have your own house. Have your own car. Have your own shit. Living with mommy and daddy is okay in your teens, and maybe in your 20s but in your 30s ... it's unattractive and I'm sorry. It just is. Being a manbaby is EXTREMELY unattractive and most women with options will not put up with it for long.
Be emotionally intelligent and know how to be social and how to talk to people. Know how to get her parents to like you, etc.
Be emotionally available and willing to commit to women. That means labels. That means commitment. That means being open to marriage and/or children. That means being faithful and treating her well. That means romance, effort, and working with your GF towards building a greater life.
Be smart, funny, sweet, kind, interesting, and generous. Don't have a vapid personality.

This is essentially 80% of what men need to be doing to attract most women but this isn't the information that triggers awards, likes, upvotes, and comments.

Men don't want to be told to go work on themselves. They want to be told that hot young women near them want to suck and fuck them and have casual no-strings-attached free hot sex with no commitment NOW! They wanna be told that they can be unemployed, dirty, rampaging sexist assholes towards women and still get fucked by hot 18 year olds near them NOW!

Sorry/not sorry. The men who are getting laid are doing some or all of the above items on the list I provided and a lot of them are lying to the rest of you because it's embarrassing.

men are egotistical and filled with pride. They're not going to tell their broskies that they're cooking, cleaning, planning romantic dates, kissing ass and being sweet to the women in their lives... they're going to tell their homies that they're getting fucked and sucked without any work at all and it'.... not true. Sorry. I dated a man 12 years older than me and he kissed my ass from cheek to shining cheek. He cleaned the entire house (that he owned, and paid for, with money he earned at the high paying job he had) from top to bottom and cooked breakfast, lunch, dinner, and took me out on expensive romantic dates. That's how he got fucked and sucked. What did he post on social media, tho? He posted the typical man shit. That he was a badass. NOT ONCE did he admit to anyone that we would spend hours on the phone flirting, or that he would drop thousands on grand romantic gestures to get and keep my interest. His homies don't know he begged for months to be my boyfriend, dropping grand romantic gestures on a daily basis to get and sustain my interest...

I would play along with the image, though. I did make him look good, I made him look like the badass he pretended to be.... and he worked for it. He earned the privilege of being fucked and sucked by a hot woman 12 years younger than him. He's not going to tell his homies what he did to get me, though. That would hurt his ego...

Idk what advice men feel like following but I have a hunch that the men who are REALLY serious about finding and keeping love in their lives will figure it out sooner or later.

throwawayhouseissue1 · 2020-04-01T23:58:59+00:00

The reason is that men don't listen to soft toned, polite advice as much as over the top exaggerated aggressiveness. Think drill sergeant vs petite 26 year old school teacher. We know we shouldn't eat 4 burritos and 6 beers or we will get fat, but we do it anyway until someone snaps us out of it by being rude and blunt about it. Maybe it is stubbornness or laziness, but it is just the way a lot of guys are.

mindsanitizer · 2020-04-02T00:57:53+00:00

This book (by Tucker Max, professional douche-bro, and Geoffrey Miller (Evo-Psychologist) comes pretty close. Blue pill people seem to accept the message as long as it's packaged with lots of language about how wonderful women are.

https://www.amazon.com/Mate-Become-Man-Women-Want/dp/B01LTHXJVE

SeemedGood · 2020-04-02T01:04:21+00:00

Because the formulaic approach is superficial. Men at TRP go there for understanding. They want to know why shit is so fucked up in addition to what they can do to optimize their outcomes in a shitty fucked up situation.

In order to truly understand the why (and therefore be able to fully embody the when, where, who, and what) one has to explore that why by jostling with rational deduction.

Here4thebeer3232 · 2020-04-02T00:03:40+00:00

Because that would just be called dating advice. Part of the allure of the red pill isn't just the advice. It's the people. It's the community. It's the sense of belonging to a group that makes them feel good. That has a strong pull, especially for lost non socialiable men. It's a very loose cult.

But given enough time, and without proper moderation, that community will grow in different ways. And when some of the fundamental beliefs of red pill is to view sex as a competition, and to assume women are like children, of course it is eventually going to get a bit out there.

Now their normal recruiting grounds have been replaced by incels. And incels infect all that they participate in.

dejour · 2020-04-02T00:40:08+00:00

It's because almost all ideological communities become more extreme over time.

It's a lot easier for people to gang up on someone who isn't extreme enough than on someone who is too extreme. People don't want to be ostracized so they avoid being moderate. As everyone avoids moderation, then the people who were only somewhat moderate now appear to be the moderates. They start getting criticized - so they either shift their opinions or leave. In any case, the average opinion just gets more extreme.

zino193 · 2020-04-02T08:13:08+00:00

For the same reason no practical non-self centered advice is popular, or acceptable in polite woke society.

Why do we encourage self discovery instead of getting over yourself and actually developing a identity in harmony with the real world?

Why do we classify certain mental illnesses based on the desires and paradigm of the people that are sick? You would not say that treatment for AIDS is optional or waste time convincing people to take the treatment - but we let depressed people to just take it at their own pace - and pretent their views and reason isn't the actual disease.

Children get to decide what they WANT to learn and what they WANT to do day to day when they grow up or even more absurd, WHAT they want to fuck. CHILDREN - people that have no experience and no real life knowledge about anything get to make life defining decisions, based on how they feel about stuff at a age where we don't even let them drive.

It's the society man, the society of gstalt, freedom of the mind, taken to a pathological level, where what you feel is the final definitive truth - and from there you derive truth and knowledge. Consequeces be damn, I want to be a strong independent woman, fuck the fact that loneliness and bitterness will keep me away from the masculinity that is negesary for me to embrace my femininity and be more fullfilled. I saw maggy get raped by a dude, so masculinity bad, GO WOMENZ!

LadyFerretQueen · 2020-04-02T11:02:25+00:00

I get confused in this world to. It's always two extremes and that's it. It's even used in arguments. If you say for example a person is not the devil reincarnated someone will say: "Oh, so they're perfect and never did anything wrong?" Wtf is it with people and being just so friggin dramatic all the time.

MubutuDeezNuts · 2020-04-02T00:00:32+00:00

That’s the thing; it’s the Dark Enlightenment/Anti -Blank Slate stuff that makes TRP TRP. Without that philosophical background, it’s not TRP anymore.

You can advice that is similar to TRP, such as lift and sexually escalate, in non-TRP sources.

says_harsh_things · 2020-04-02T01:01:09+00:00

I'm guessing the backlash to even moderate stances polarizes people.

If I say "yeah, bud, girls lie about that they're attracted to all the time. You need to work on yourself if you want her attention" all anyone is going to hear is 'girls lie' and the shitstorm starts. Women and white knights will insist it isn't true, and people that believe it to be true dig their heels in and go to the extreme.

Hell, look at all the dating subs on reddit. You can't even give a bland answer if it favors the guy and you'll get everyone all riled up against you.

taapy234 · 2020-04-02T03:33:08+00:00

Because people change.

TRP became popular in early 2010's because PUA failed in addressing the core issues faced by men after nearly 20 years of existence.

Now, TRP is slowly losing its past glory because "the decline" TRP talks about is now currently ongoing.

The stark reality I am facing so far is you have to be a BETA to have a "long term relationship" in today's world. You have to be pussy whipped by uncle sam (through family courts and redefinition of words favoring women over men) and bend the knee to feminists if you want a family in 2020. Two things I have zero tolerance for in my personal life.

That's not what I want although I long to have a long term relationship myself deep down.

With all this in mind, many men like me face existential questions the more we grow up. How can you ever trust a woman when the world you live in now has hypergamy being the defacto standard?

There's no protection from their ways for me to be at peace around women and trust them in any way shape or form that don't end in a single night.

DangZagnut · 2020-04-01T22:24:24+00:00

What are you talking about, there's excellent advice all the time.

Be attractive
Don't be unattractive

It is pretty much laid out bare.

SILENTSAM69 · 2020-04-01T23:22:05+00:00

Those giving actual dating advice are questionably not getting TRP and mostly fooling themselves.

In the early days TRP seemed firm that they were not PUA's. As various incel and PUA and other such groups got disbanded though they flooded into TRP. Eventually they changed the narrative.

That said a lot of this craziness comes from the conflict with the crazy on the other side. The SJW types make people band together against their craziness. They breed conflict with their way of fighting for their misguided views of justice. Even some of us progressives on the left love to laugh at the crazy from the regressive left SJW types.

So the crazy gets wrapped up into the rest of it. It's the worst aspect of TRP. Most of them fail to follow the most basic TRP ideas while getting angry. They can't hold frame.

jacemano · 2020-04-02T07:55:49+00:00

Are you serious?

Ctrl+ F Mark Manson..... Phrase not found

2020-04-02T07:56:52+00:00

Because outrage and controversy gets clicks

BothWaysItGoes · 2020-04-02T11:59:23+00:00

Because everyone knows it is true but it is not moving enough to get people going. Everyone knows eating well, lifting, not playing games the whole days is good for your health and social life. Not everyone can be motivated enough to actually follow through. The path to sucess is mundane and boring.

The same thing with Jordan Peterson. What are the two most populat complaints about him? Paradoxically, people either complain that (1) the stuff he says is obvious and was known to everyone forever (2) he is a right-wing nut who spouts nonsense.

RoccoPinkman · 2020-04-02T12:33:23+00:00

I’d say mark Manson models is pretty sound advice that doesn’t lean too far either way as you suggest

Karmanger · 2020-04-02T14:08:57+00:00

The people who give sane advice usually charge.

bonusfruit · 2020-04-02T16:58:53+00:00

There is plenty of balanced, normal, self improvement based dating advice out there. It's just not worth debating so no one is going to bring it up on ppd. Ppd only exists to find and talk about the red pill specifically because it is so controversial. We sought this out

Cobra_x30 · 2020-04-02T17:20:59+00:00

Why does Buzzfeed put out so much clickbait?

Better question... why do you read that shit and ignore the good stuff?

TheJim66 · 2020-04-01T22:20:53+00:00

Okay even if that were true in general, I'm sure some fraction can be taken care of without inciting a race war or repealing women's suffrage.

So what gives? Why is there no normal but useful dating advice for men?

Trp is exactly what you describe. You are just seeing the effect of ppd becoming a blues vs blackpillers sub.

lazylurker53 · 2020-04-01T23:14:59+00:00

That’s what normal men are. If you need to actually seek out redpill advice you obviously are already a little off and will overcompensate by seeking out the more extreme redpillers

2LitreBugattiBieber · 2020-04-02T00:04:39+00:00

I do, but then I get called blue pilled by some 17 year old kid who has never approached a woman before.

ElGupo1978 · 2020-04-02T01:33:02+00:00

Because this is the internet

redditthrowaway1478 · 2020-04-02T01:10:51+00:00

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Mrs_Drgree · 2020-04-01T23:46:52+00:00

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Fantactic1 · 2020-04-02T00:57:40+00:00

Try An Ear for Men.

ChemaCB · 2020-04-02T06:00:48+00:00

Have you spent much time on r/MarriedRedPill? I actually think it strikes this balance pretty well.

Zippo-Cat · 2020-04-02T14:27:49+00:00

The difference between TRP and PUA is that TRP is trying to explain WHY things are the way they are. Not just give you "your dad's advice on women".

If you think the explanation WHY is just "meant to troll and enrage and outrage" then TRP is not for you, try PUA

banned_by_cucks · 2020-04-02T18:45:40+00:00

A lot of those other things don’t really pertain to getting women, but more so about preserving society and its longevity.

quesoburgesa · 2020-04-02T00:09:23+00:00

There are plenty of people who give reasonable red pill advice, they are called real life friends and you typically hang out with them once or twice every couple of weeks

OttoVonBismark71 · 2020-04-02T01:53:23+00:00

because only dark triad traits really guarantee success. just being confident can work but it's harder.

sadomasochrist · 2020-04-02T04:35:53+00:00

I tried doing this with my content. People don't really care about tone, it's a locker room.
Invariably, once you start running into topics like "facta non verba" where you ignore what women say your true issues are going to come into play (you're liberal)

The problem you have is you're too liberal to read worthwhile dating advice because you overvalue women.

Why is there no normal but useful dating advice for men?

Because useful dating advice runs against the grain for how women think they date and how men think they operate.

How are you going to write a PC blog about getting pussy when every guy that finally gets it and starts to slay ends up the same way?

Why do you think every guy who does this cross culturally has the same attitude of women?

joesmithasdf · 2020-04-02T04:59:35+00:00

I was reading how totalitarian states keep making up enemies. They need to have the population focused on anything but their shortcomings. That’s probably why you see so many edgy and misogynistic men in trp, instead of focusing on, you know, actually getting sex.

However, we live in an age of extremes. Very few people try to keep levelheaded. Most men follow the advice from the other side, which, on the surface, seems to be “put women on a pedestal”.

Neither are a good way to get sex.

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