Does anyone else think the psychology field doesn't understand lonely men? It seems like porn and video games is all they can think of.

Wackywokwilly · 2012-06-20T17:26:27+00:00

My female therapist assumes that I can just go out and get laid, and that it's "not that hard". I'm a 25 year old virgin.

Elonine · 2012-06-20T17:06:55+00:00

Reminds me of a checkup I have to get for my job once a year. Go to the hospital on base and I'm in the waiting room and in walks a female major (she outranks me significantly)

"Do you use protection during sex?" "uhh..." She gives me a strange look "I assume you are sexually active." "Well, I talked to a girl once..."

Luckily, that meant I didn't have to take the battery of tests she was about to conduct...

still.... awkward exchange...

McFeely_Smackup · 2012-06-20T15:34:23+00:00

She, being a woman who probably never had problems dating whoever she wants, didn't understand why I was unhappy.

That may be part of it, but I have another possible explanation for her incomprehension. Women are prone to the apex fallacy when thinking about men - only regarding men at the top of the hierarchy and assuming that all men share the characteristics of those at the top. Hence the feminist assumption that because most of the CEOs and Senators are men, that all men enjoy a dominant status in society.

This is compounded by the common female mating behavior of hypergamy - only being sexually and romantically attracted to men of higher social status than themselves. In fact, it has been noted that some women only notice men of higher status; lower ranking men are invisible to them.

So this woman may think all men can have sex whenever they want, because the high ranking men she notices have their choice of women (including her), so she assumes that all men share this privilege. She doesn't understand that the success of high ranking men comes at the expense of low ranking men. Given her assumptions, it is doesn't make sense to her that a man could be involuntarily celibate.

Leinadro · 2012-06-20T16:14:23+00:00

I don't think its necessarily because she's a woman but more of just assuming that the only reason a guy doesn't have a sex life is because he is not trying. Which I do agree may hint toward a problem of not understanding men.

tjm80 · 2012-06-20T17:03:42+00:00

Why is your sex life any concern to your employer at all to begin with?

magafish · 2012-06-20T17:03:01+00:00

I think it is worth noting that the MMPI was originally based on the responses of white Lutheran farmers from Minnesota quite some time ago.

Nothing wrong with with being white, Lutheran, farming, or from Minnesota... but the MMPI's norms are very specific. It has been revised several times since, but I have little faith in it.

ussnerdship · 2012-06-20T17:41:24+00:00

We need more male therapists. They seem to be lacking these days.

AeneaLamia · 2012-06-20T18:16:29+00:00

Psychology?

According to some people, men don't have feelings, therefore psychology is useless on us robots.

BarelyComical · 2012-06-20T20:26:47+00:00

She asked, "Do you want a sex life?"

I think there may have been a hidden meaning in this. You should probably call your shrink back ASAP.

Aavagadrro · 2012-06-20T17:28:28+00:00

This is the scientific reason why there are lonely men. Also why men hesitate to approach and why women almost never approach.

Hateblade · 2012-06-20T16:58:56+00:00

Way to abuse you. Tell you there's something wrong with you just because you're being completely honest with your situation. Sounds to me like you're much more mentally sound than those so-called PUAs out there nailing every basket case that comes their way. Just another way the system that should be trying to help people fails to protect men.

loose-dendrite · 2012-06-20T15:46:27+00:00

...and good luck trying to find a male therapist.

Wordshark · 2012-06-20T22:58:29+00:00

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say the field of psychology doesn't understand men, and doesn't care to.

The APA runs the sinister-sounding "Division 51," aka "SPSMM," the Society for the Psychological Study of Men and Masculinity. The entire outfit is based on the assumption that masculinity is bad, both for men and women. Take a look at the mission statement: http://www.division51.org/aboutus/mission.htm

The relevant part:

•Endeavors to erode constraining definitions of masculinity which historically have inhibited men’s development, their capacity to form meaningful relationships, and have contributed to the oppression of other people.

That's what psychology thinks of men.

Also, there's this:

•Acknowledges its historical debt to feminist-inspired scholarship on gender, and commits itself to the support of groups such as women, gays, lesbians and people of color that have been uniquely oppressed by the gender/class/race system.

Because if you're going to do a study of men, it's important to outline exactly how it's going to benefit women, gays, lesbians, and people of color.

Legolihkan · 2012-06-20T21:03:31+00:00

Neither my female shrink or my ex-gf (whom i talk to a little bit, occasionally) seem to understand why i'm so negative about my future love life. They say things like "But if you aren't positive, that'll keep you from trying!" Yet neither of them can really answer when i ask what "trying" means. They don't get that going up and talking to girls randomly in public will most likely be met with hostility.

klonozopanour · 2012-06-20T16:17:58+00:00

Men aren't supposed to have a dissatisfied sex life ever.

Don't you know this!?!

AmberLynn90 · 2012-06-20T17:59:11+00:00

I don't know how a person can be confused with that. Maybe she was trying to get to it at a different angle, but I don't know too much about therapist strategies even though I go to a psychiatrist myself.

Males and females probably can have a sex life if they lower their standards enough, but a lot of people want more than that. I don't know her, her dating habits, or her physical features but girls can not have a sex life too, especially if they aren't easy on the eyes and want more than some scumbag and a decent relationship.

If she isn't using some kind of therapist technique, then yeah those sound like some dumb questions to ask. I believe, however, that she is asking if it's just the sex life or if it's more than that (like a relationship or something).

MaunaLoona · 2012-06-20T18:06:46+00:00

What? I don't even... Is that even legal? Can an employer require you to do that? I hope you're not in US.

Irrel_M · 2012-06-20T18:56:26+00:00

Why understand when you can judge?

2012-06-20T19:14:05+00:00

I don't think anyone less dense than neutronium could fail to imagine how someone might lack the sex life they desire. Like, this isn't a secret, this notion is a mainstay of pop culture.

Hamakua · 2012-06-20T20:17:13+00:00

Lots of psychology and understanding of it comes from research and research institutes. One of the major issues facing men, and I believe, along with CH Sommers, is the MOST IMPORTANT issue facing men is also a entirely ignored one.

There are barely a handful of research institutes devoted to studying men and hundreds devoted to studying women.

Legislative funding and policy trickle down from those institutes. And, ironically, so does the "understanding" you read about in colleges and universities in the books published that reference "new research shows". Those people who get their degrees in psychology? They get them from books based on a 100:1 ratio of Female:male research.

Supportive source !!PDF!!PDF!!

PuppyPuppies · 2012-06-20T20:33:50+00:00

I have no idea what kind of job you were applying for or why you had to take such a test, but I assure you, knowing women who have been involved in psychotherapy, they are also routinely asked about their sex life. It's just normal territory for adults.

namewastakenlol · 2012-06-20T20:33:52+00:00

I used to get the same treatment out of my family. Clearly something is wrong with me if I can't get laid. Only 20 and they stopped asking me about my 'lovelife' because its a whole 'lotta nothing. Then again, I'm only 20. I'm nowhere near where some of you guys are at but I feel some of the pressure. Its come to the point where I'm just lying about it when people ask, but they rarely, if ever, do so anymore. I'm not sure if I'm relieved or worried. I've already been asked if I was gay on several occasions. I'm not.

manutdnotmanu · 2012-06-20T22:03:13+00:00

Sounds like your shrink sucks. We all aren't stupid and some of us are even male.

rightsbot · 2012-06-20T15:18:17+00:00

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Abe_Vigoda · 2012-06-20T21:52:11+00:00

I've never had a problem meeting girls. Mostly it was a combination of stupidity and not giving a damn. Plus, I just always hated 'playing the game'.

The whole act of trying to play yourself up to impress a girl is just so...pathetic, and our culture pushes that crap on us on a daily basis.

If you don't play their game, you don't get beat.

rolfsnuffles · 2012-06-20T23:58:56+00:00

Most of the people saying that sort of stuff are fluff psychologists/psychiatrists. I'm an undergrad psych/neuro senior and most of my professors made fun of cooks like that.

occupythekitchen · 2012-06-21T00:15:42+00:00

I'd have asked for the therapist's phone number and said it seems like you can help me fix that.

ThePigman · 2012-06-21T03:19:35+00:00

Some really hilariously out-of-touch responses here. Apparently in the U.S women who look like this one are getting all the sex they want...

http://thepigmancometh.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/andrea-dworkin-famous-man-hater.jpg

TheLadyEve · 2012-06-21T01:22:53+00:00

Hi, I'm a professional therapist (Master's degree and state licensure, 6 years of practice so far) and I will be getting my doctorate starting in August.

*First off, I have to say that interpreting the MMPI is a very complex thing, and although I received training, I am not "allowed" to do it because I don't have my doctorate at this point. Was this person a doctor/psychologist?

*Second, what do you mean by "probably never had problems dating whoever she wants?" That sounds like you're basing it all on looks, which I think is a bit of a fallacy. No one can date whomever he/she wants. That's up to the other party to help decide. It debases men to assume that they place all value on looks. Just saying...

*Third, I have treated a number of "lonely men," a lot of whom saw me because they had clinical depression. A lot of our work was a combo of distinguishing the biological components of their depression from environmental triggers and figuring out what they could change and what they couldn't. I am not a man, and when I work with men I always ask them to help teach me about their experience, not assume I get them.

*I don't think that it's quite fair to say that "women hold all the cards." Albert Ellis said it best when he talked about asking out women. He talked about not internalizing rejection and reframing being turned down in a positive way that helps boost ego strength. You can't say that women hold all the cards--that would be as fallacious as if I said "all men are too sexually aggressive!" No group holds more power in general as a rule. Individuals may in specific situations.

*I am sorry that you had that experience. Not all professionals are as professional as they should be.

Psych277 · 2012-06-20T20:42:08+00:00

Please don't generalize the field. The individual you saw clearly had no idea, but that does not mean that we're all bad.

Aavagadrro · 2012-06-20T22:00:07+00:00

I just asked my wife what she thought. She said it is far easier for a woman to go out and meet someone to get laid than a man, provided she isnt entirely unattractive. Mind you she never dated until she was 21, and when she found me I was 1500 miles away. She had never met anyone even remotely interesting, but she is far more cerebral than after physical attractiveness.

I am a short guy, 5'7", very heavily muscled so I look fat to most people, and I used to wear glasses before I met her. For me to get any I had to learn to talk to women in such a way that they would realize I am much more interesting than I looked. I would make them laugh and then get them thinking about sex. Sometimes it worked, sometimes they decided to go fuck the tall guy across the room. Basically I had to learn to manipulate them the way they manipulate men. If I hadnt learned that, I would probably never have gotten laid in the US.

ignatiusloyola · 2012-06-20T17:09:51+00:00

Psychology tends to focus on the things that have a negative impact on a person's life.

HotbutteryToast · 2012-06-20T22:47:54+00:00

20 hours indoors reading war and peace=Good 10 hours indoors playing Portal 2(just as challenging IMO)=BAD WAW WAW YOU MUST BE CRAZY Had this in a lession a while ago with some women who laughed at my 30 hours a week gaming, then spent the next half hour of coursework drafting, due in the next week, on phones, which are banned in lessons. Its like a cycle of ignorant bullcrap. And we are stuck in the middle. Also congratulations on having the wrong opinion, though it was just me.

pcarvious · 2012-06-20T18:59:45+00:00

Psychology is more of the study of the individual and their mind. It takes into account local factors but not factors on a more macro level. That's what sociology is for. So yes, I think that psychology doesn't understand men's interest in porn or video games because I don't think psychology is looking at it. Once people start noticing that all these "Men not engaging" social issues psychology will notice, but until then I wouldn't hold my breath.

Also, you can probably request a different psychologist or specify you want a male one if you have to keep going to the meetings.

Ma99ie · 2012-06-20T21:08:15+00:00

Psychology is to mental health what chiropracty is to medicine. In other words, it's bullshit. Misandrist bullshit at that.

vacatedsiamang · 2012-06-20T21:30:47+00:00

The MMPI (if it was a year ago, you were probably given either the MMPI-2 or the MMPI-2-RF) does not have "right" or "wrong" answers, nor does any one answer really weigh that heavily. Current versions of the test were normed using a diverse sample of thousands of people in 1989. The test consists of multiple scales. Each scale is created from 30 to 70 questions that are statistically determined to measure a personality dimmension. For example, the Paranoia scale measures trust, suspiciousness, etc., and uses 40 questions. The test generates a personality profile that compares a person's score on each scale to the scores of thousands of other people on which the test was normed. In addition, it uses supplemental scales to measure things like propensity for substance abuse and suicidality. Finally, it has multiple validity checks built-in. These indicate whether it is likely that person is trying to look a certain way on the test.

The computerized report for the MMPI-2 and MMPI-2-RF shows "critical items." The critical items are used as suggestions for further examination. They can be seen as an indicator that a person may have a problem in some aspect of his/her life. As with any question on the test, endorsement of one or two "critical items" shouldn't be treated as evidence that a person has a problem. Instead, the person should be asked to explain further.

As a psychologist who gives the MMPI-2 as a part of neuropsychological and personality assessments, I find that people usually become a little defensive when placed a room with an intimidating and mysterious test that asks invasive questions and may determine suitability for employment. While I don't doubt that there are clinicians who have no business practicing and who routinely abuse instruments like the MMPI, I find it unlikely that a psychiatrist whose job it is to talk to people about their problems all day every day wouldn't be able to understand something as simple as common gender roles when it comes to dating and sex. I find it much more likely that you misunderstood both the purpose and nuture of the test and the questions being asked by the psychiatrist. Also, your use of the perjorative term, "shrink," and blatant characterization of the psychiatrist as "a woman who probably never had problems dating whoever she wants," calls into question your biases.

In short, the test is valid and not nearly as simple or ridiculous as the strawman you have created. The psychiatrist may have been an idiot, but four years of medical school, a residency, board certification, and regular practice suggest it is more likely that you have created a strawman of her, too.

Malkor · 2012-06-20T16:05:24+00:00

in which you're supposed to answer "yes". They made me see a psychiatrist to discuss the handful of questions I got "wrong"

uhhhh

So you are interviewing for a job and then they ask you to take a "personality" test. They get your results and refer you to a psychologist who talks to you about your sex life?

hokay

But then you complain that women don't have dating problems and females lolo

That's bullshit, I can't believe we still live in a society. Stupid Friendzone. Feminazis and welfare. harglargbhlaer sexual revolution no-fault childsupport

But Phil Zambardo(?) wrote a book recently I think it missed the mark, it was supposed to be for a specific subset of men who are shy and lonely but don't want to be and seek solace in porn and video games instead. But seemed to be marketed at ALL THE MEN EVER most likely to cash in on the whole 'where are the guys' thing.

genuinemra · 2012-06-20T15:39:38+00:00

[permanently deleted]

warpaint · 2012-06-21T03:53:07+00:00

Pay a woman.

Title	Does anyone else think the psychology field doesn't understand lonely men? It seems like porn and video games is all they can think of.
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	249
Comments	217
Date	June 20, 2012 3:18 PM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/vbxq3/does_anyone_else_think_the_psychology_field/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/does-anyone-else-think-the-psychology-field-doesnt.1019395 https://theredarchive.com/post/1019395

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