Feminism

deskbookcandle · 2022-08-04T03:01:25+00:00

OP we don’t mind feminists like you we think equality is a good thing we have a problem with militant feminists that hate men. It’s the kind that say all men are trash, all men are predators, women would be better off if we killed all men, down with the patriarchy, all men are rapists..it’s the venom and hatred that they spew out that is the issue.

TextDependent6779 · 2022-08-04T01:17:13+00:00

welcome, i hope you stick around a little and learn some things. and, most inportantly, i just hope you have a good time here. while you're here, you'll probably see a lot of anti-feminism rhetoric.

this does not mean we hate you as an individual, nor do we hate women. we welcome open-minded individuals, and most of us love women.

i always like sharing this with new feminists so they properly understand the stance of much of this subreddit

and here is a more wholesome place to start

regardless of movements and ideologies, it's crucial to remember men and women are not enemies in this.

TheSnesLord · 2022-08-04T00:49:21+00:00

You missed being average or ugly looking, men are automatically and immediately dismissed and called "creeps" by women on that factor alone, whether for dating purposes or not.

onedayMD4110 · 2022-08-04T00:56:33+00:00

I am a woman and I agree with literally everything here.

Arch_Stanton1862 · 2022-08-04T01:45:36+00:00

Thank you for summing up those points... It is appreciated, really :)

sparkydoggowastaken · 2022-08-04T04:31:06+00:00

i think thats r/egalitarianism

iainmf · 2022-08-04T05:15:13+00:00

Can we just call it egalitarianism or something already and just learn to live together?

I've asked feminists this and most don't want to abandon the label feminist.

dungeonmonkey69 · 2022-08-04T05:17:28+00:00

You missed the sentencing gap ie being sentenced up to twice as harshly for the same crime if you're a man, or in some cases women wouldn't even be charged/arrested at all.

ketsa3 · 2022-08-04T07:03:05+00:00

“No woman should be authorized to stay at home to raise her children. Women should not have that choice, precisely because if there is such a choice, too many women will make that one.”

So you love Simone de Beauvoir ?

xcheshirecatxx · 2022-08-04T12:22:29+00:00

Hello. As a woman, I am against feminism. Feminism always actively fought only for women, and tries to block every conversation about men's rights

I have friends who switch to women's rights advocates instead, because they don't want to block men's rights, but just want to work more on women issues, often because they don't feel they know enough about men's rights

The biggest issue to me is circumcision. It's starting a man's life with rape. and to me it's the source of many crimes committed by men

They start life being told consent doesn't matter

LargeShinyFruit · 2022-08-04T04:37:04+00:00

Thank you soooo much for this. I agree with all of this but as you said, I'm not allowed to say it because "women have it worse" 🙏

Wilddog73 · 2022-08-04T04:45:58+00:00

Humanism?

Heimeri_Klein · 2022-08-04T05:08:33+00:00

I think really in all honesty the only main issue with the feminist movement now (not saying you op) aren’t thinking about equity among both sexes. A lot of what i see from the feminist movement are women that want more rights than men have and think that men deserve less rights. Theres also a huge group of feminist that absolutely hate trans people i think the term for that group of feminist is Terf. Regardless i think the feminist movement needs more women like you that don’t just outright hate men just for being born men. Theres a lot of inequality in the world and in all honesty i haven’t seen much fighting for equity.

63daddy · 2022-08-04T00:59:34+00:00

No we can’t. We can’t as long as feminism remains anti-male. Many of the injustices men now face are a direct result of feminism.

Egalitarianism is consistent with men’s rights. Feminism is not.

AirSailer · 2022-08-04T01:53:19+00:00

You love this woman?

https://avoiceformen.com/featured/simone-de-beauvoir-a-nazi-a-pedophile-and-a-misogynist/

Maffioze · 2022-08-04T09:26:45+00:00

You forgot having experienced an abusive relationship with an abusive woman and being doubted or not being believed. Failing to identify abuse done by women by both yourself and society. Being victim blamed because you must have done something "to make her be that way", being told that women are more important victims, being an invisible victim in society. Not being able to talk about your experience with honesty to most women you are interested in until you have known them for a while because they will assume that if you are saying that your ex was crazy it must be a red flag since it must be you who was the truly crazy one or the one who made her be that way.

In addition having to walk on eggshells to not hurt the feeling's of the women in your life but not having the same thing returned to you and if you get your feelings hurt it is by default assumed to be because you're insecure or have a fragile ego and not because she was insensitive. Meanwhile if I spoke to some women in the way they thought it was completely acceptable to speak to me they would be crying every week.

BlvckAnomally26 · 2022-08-04T14:12:56+00:00

Why don’t feminists like you callout the radical feminists on their behavior? I hear feminists say stuff like this but never actually do things to back up their words.

2022-08-04T14:29:23+00:00

If I were you I wouldn’t be very enamored of Simone de Beauvoir

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/qh16a0/in_1977_french_feminists_including_simone_de/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

Ogreblack · 2022-08-04T18:58:18+00:00

Those are some common men’s issues.

The last one I would change to “can’t talk about men’s issues without being called a misogynist”

Because if you identify with MRA groups, RP, or antifemism, you’ve already been branded as being some incel that hates women. 99% of us don’t fit that category and I think that feminists have to demonize us in order to avoid listening to us. If the they listened to us, a lot of their claims would be debunked. And I don’t think the brainwashing of modern feminism allows for thinking that critically.

TrilIias · 2022-08-04T04:19:36+00:00

I'm sure we disagree on a lot, but I truly wish more feminists were like you. I think most feminists who are ordinary people you'd meet on the street are generally good people who genuinely just believe in equality, but the feminists with institutional power are just awful.

Mycroft033 · 2022-08-04T05:54:58+00:00

I appreciate your post, I would take the title of egalitarian though

Bigbog54 · 2022-08-04T08:47:30+00:00

You’re not what I call a “modern feminist” you’re a normal human being.

There may be some misogynistic men (just like strong men hating feminists) out there but most are normal too.

I (m) am married to a woman and have a son and a daughter, I want the best for BOTH of them. I don’t want men pulled back or blocked for an agenda to get more women and at the same time I don’t want women to choose between staying home or a career.

I want women to be encouraged and I want boys to be better educated in schools, I want equality not what modern feminism is striving for. Modern feminism has a distinct undertone of kill all men, women only, men are shit. That’s what leaving a distaste in everyone’s mouth.

I’m all for women but I’m also for men, I’m for black and I’m also for white, I’m for gay and also straight. Why is it that if we choose one path then we are anti the other. I agree and disagree with Trump and I agree and disagree with Biden.

mediumbonebonita · 2022-08-04T17:30:22+00:00

I used to be a feminist but have since retracted. Modern feminism not only demonizes men, it fails to actually address real issues women face. It seems to just want women to become men. Or to evermore victimize or place women on a pedestal.

I’d also rethink loving Simone de Beauvoir, she promoted pedophilia(signed a doctrine to eliminate the age of consent). The foundation of her philosophy demonizes men. She’s not really an egalitarian.

DaWatcher79 · 2022-08-04T04:44:13+00:00

I think you get the gist of the problem. I do not consider myself a feminist, and I don't think at the slightest that it is about equality(Lol what a bad joke) at all, but I also support women's rights in a non idealogical way and I acknowledge that There are Many issues faced in the society by even the Modern Female.

There is however a small nitpick on what you said here. The amount and seriousness of Anti-Male Hate speech is not comparable to Anti-Female Ones at least certainly in online spheres such as twitter,Tik tok and reddit. MenAreTrash is regularly repeated by Feminists without any repurcussions all the time, KillAllMen, and a shit ton of other nasty shits too. We would have been banned long ago if there was that much comparable Misogyny here(and we don't have many spaces anyway). While in comparison there are a gazilion subreddits filled with Misandry so common that it has become fully casualized for them. The Same people also usually claim that Misandry doesn't exist in the most ironically non self aware way possible.

360bagel360 · 2022-08-04T01:12:13+00:00

No we can't. We have tried that in the past 8 years and we couldn't make it work. Now we understand that we need our space to deal with our problems, and we won't give it up easily. And please, avoid this kind of proposal. I know you didn't mean it, but it is hard to not understand it as an insult. Four years ago, if a man proposed this in a public debate, he would be mocked, accused of political apropriation, and cancealed. And I'm sure you'd be one of those who'd do it.

FaceYourEvil · 2022-08-04T03:13:14+00:00

I have a question about your first bullet point.

So you think it sucks that men get drafted, you think nobody should be drafted, but you believe if there must be a draft, it should stay men only?

DavidByron2 · 2022-08-04T05:21:09+00:00

Well the name feminism or "the women's movement" makes perfect sense because it's always been about benefitting women and attacking men. It's certainly that way today and has always been that way. The name makes perfect sense.

What makes no sense is you using that name as a label and then saying you completely oppose everything that the movement you identify as stands for.

Taking such a stand will confuse and anger your potential allies won't it? Taking on the name of the enemy will make you tend to defend the movement out of a sense of self defense.

Martamis · 2022-08-04T00:55:11+00:00

Men and women will be equal when more women pick up pipe wrenches and join us in field.

veedub447 · 2022-08-04T01:56:34+00:00

You have given the incorrect definition of being a feminist. Feminism and feminists have no interest whatsoever in gender equality, nor do feminists advocate for gender equality. For 2 simple examples that is why feminist organizations such as NOW are firmly against women being required to sign up for Selective Service and they don't want 50/50 parenting legislation, which they have apposed in every state where it has been introduced.

The correct definition of a feminist is someone who believes in patriarchy theory. Patriarchy is the fundamental theory in academic feminism. No one can rightfully be defined as a feminist and not believe that a patriarchy exists and that this patriarchy creates a regime of institutionalized male control over all women. And because feminists believe the patriarchy (males in society) control women, the logical consequence is that females are an oppressed class.

Your definition is one of an Egalitarian , you relate to or believe in the principle that all people are equal and deserve equal rights and opportunities. But this is a far cry from feminism.

Efficient_Creme_3067 · 2022-08-04T02:19:58+00:00

At one point in history feminism was ABSOLUTELY needed. When you learn the way women were perceived in the past, you couldn’t help but be disgusted. But, at a certain point, the goals of feminism were achieved. All rights were equal, mind sets of society where changing for the better. Suddenly, feminist who were apart of this necessary and noble group, had nothing left to fight for. So…they started nitpicking. Left unchecked, they started to see how much power they had over society (because who would dare argue AGAINST equality?) and then started working on perceived slights or inequities. That’s when feminism became a superiority group.

Now, anyone who dares challenge the power of feminism is deemed an “enemy of the state”, and governments and even businesses have become the enforcement arms of the feminist movement. Even life long, 3rd wave feminists HATE modern feminists. They too see them as nothing more than power hungry harpies, hell bent on men being relegated to slaves to the feminists narrative…either by choice or by force. Equity stopped being a dirty word and became the law of the land. Then movements like “He for she” were not only born, but praised publicly.

skllyskullstyle · 2022-08-04T03:42:30+00:00

Then stoo calling yourself a feminist. Thats all we ask. Not that hard.

matrixislife · 2022-08-04T07:47:39+00:00

There's also the way men are discriminated against in the legal courts and family courts, imo that's the biggest one.

I'd suggest you try an experiment. Take your post above, that has got generally a load of discussion talking about positive and negative issues in it, copy and paste it into the feminism sub. Don't worry about the discussion it provokes, just measure the time it actually stays up before it gets deleted, and you in all probability get banned.

I don't have any issues with anyone who is able to consider the differing viewpoints, the problem with feminism is that those in charge of it, the mods here, the senior members in organisations such as NOW, the people who pushed the Duluth model on the police, the MPs, congresswomen etc, are not willing to consider the issues and want to keep the system exactly as it is now. These are the people who need to see these posts, who need to consider "we just need to learn to live together". As long as you call yourselves feminists, these are the people who you support, who feel no need at all to think of men as human beings.

Ko_oK_24685 · 2022-08-04T08:46:03+00:00

This subreddit isn't against women rights, and we don't claim women are inferior in any way. Most of us here dislike feminism because of what it's become today, misandry. Pure and simple misandry.

FredConnery · 2022-08-04T11:48:52+00:00

I have been thinking this for a good 10 years but saying that you hate calling yourself a femminist is a no-no, especially as a woman. I read this kind of thing that you say more and more though, which makes me really happy. The word “feminism” had its moment of glory, but it has gotta go if we really want to get somewhere as a species.

Nunubx92 · 2022-08-04T17:49:12+00:00

I'm not sure if I'm the only one, but when I try to date, when I hear "you need to work on yourself", I interpret it as "You will never find someone who will love you", and it's always women who say that to me.

bilgediver · 2022-08-04T19:13:03+00:00

The issue I have with your first point, is it eliminates what ALL modern movements and young people tend to forget, duty.

Everyone wants rights but no one talks about duties.

That's just entitlement. Did you know there were anti-suffragettes? This duty was that reason. Back then full franchisement as voting citizens came with obligations as well. Well they didn't want those obligations. Instead Simps just handed rights to women without obligations.

Do I think it has to be a draft or mandatory military service? That's debatable. I understand the need for a draft, the problem is the way our politicians used it in the past. I would only personally authorize a draft literally for the defense of our home country, no other reason.

Flipping back to obligations, I would be for mandatory civil service, that all citizens, regardless of how you were born, serve in some capacity for your community. You could easily use voter registration rolls or school districts.

We as a society have grown away from caring about our local communities and we have become far to Nationalistic. The more we have to serve in our local communities the more I think we would care about how they are run.

And citizenship should come with obligations. Too many people are all about taking and entitlements and "mine mine mine" without giving back.

MGTOW_and_Bitcoin · 2022-08-04T02:01:56+00:00

Women have no institutional discrimination men have institutional discriminations across every human right.

Feel free to point out any exceptions

traveller1976 · 2022-08-04T04:49:22+00:00

Your thoughts are noble and perhaps well intentioned. Your points of pain for men are comprehensive and appreciated. However most intelligent men nowadays are already aware of how the game is rigged against them, and are simply refusing to play. Feminism has rendered females alone, as their previously protective men have abandoned them en masse. Good luck.

nameisahmad · 2022-08-04T06:38:21+00:00

Simone was a sexist, she basically wanted all men dead, we don’t want your empathy since you are the problem

ZekalMacabre · 2022-08-04T14:22:42+00:00

Feminism is a hate cult.

While you don't sound like the typical feminist, we have run into many trying to pretend. That is, until someone challenges feminism and calls it out for what it is, an evil hate cult dedicated to trying to dominate and control men.

If you are who you say you are (remains to be seen), you should drop the feminist label completely. It isn't doing you any favors. In fact, it contradicts what you've posted here today.

Feminism is pure fucking evil and I will never accept anything a feminist says at face value. Feminists lie 100% of the time.

If you have good intentions, then I welcome you here but be aware that many people here will never trust you.

tenchineuro · 2022-08-04T16:15:41+00:00

If I am a feminist, then im also a masculinist.

If you're a feminist, you support every anti-male action and word of the feminist movement by lending it your support.

The feminist movement not only is not for men, equal rights and fair and equal treatment, it opposes them.

For example, in 1996 or so feminists wrote the Violence Against Women Act (VAWA) which among other things denies male DV victims recognition as DV victims and denies any resources to male DV victims. But that was not enough, some female abusers were still being arrested and feminism could not support that, so in the next VAWA re-authorization feminism changed the previous Primary Aggressor model to the feminist written Duluth Model. What is the Duluth Model you might ask?

Duluth is predicated on the "patriarchal terrorism" paradigm of partner violence. That is, men beat their female partners in order to assert masculine dominance within their relationships. Their motives are to conform to patriarchal norms and to reify a the patriarchal social/political/cultural order of male dominance and female subordination within the home.
Under this faulty model, women cannot, as a conceptual matter, perpetrate partner abuse. If they hit their male partners, it was in self defense. If they hit first, or are the only partner who hits, they are doing it within the context of "violent resistance" against presumed emotional or psychological abuse on his part.

Because the VAWA also requires mandatory arrest policies, the VAWA + Duluth literally requires police to arrest male DV victims of females.

And if you still call yourself a feminist, then you stand by this.

Feminism even does things that simply harm men and don't benefit women at all. For example, they added a proportionality rule for sports to Title IX that says there cannot be more men in sports than women. Since all the women interested in sports were already involved, this lead to the elimination of a huge number of men's sports programs. As a feminist you hitch your horse to this wagon train too.

But given the beginnings of feminism, the present movement is not a surprise. From the first recognized feminist document, the declaration of sentiments signed in 1848 at Seneca Fall NY.

https://www.nps.gov/wori/learn/historyculture/declaration-of-sentiments.htm
Declaration of Sentiments
The history of mankind is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations on the part of man toward woman, having in direct object the establishment of an absolute tyranny over her.

This is not pro-woman, it's simply anti-male.

kirewes · 2022-08-04T02:15:10+00:00

Honestly I don't care what you call it as long as we recognize both sides. I think the true followers of the men's Rights movement and not the women haters will probably agree with this. I don't see a reason why feminists and men's rights can't work together personally.

In short, I'm down for it.

EDIT: also I think it depends on your definition of feminism. The definition that you have used is the one that I agree with. I feel as if some women use a different definition of feminism. I'm not usually a fan of those other definitions.

PRANAV_1234 · 2022-08-04T07:59:07+00:00

Glad to see women actually acknowledging men's rights instead of just going "well women face SA than men so women's rights are more important than man's"

WeEatBabies · 2022-08-04T11:20:47+00:00

Feminism is to equality what the Taliban are to World Peace, do no judge theses groups by their recruitment speech, but by the actions they do and the laws they pass.

https://www.instagram.com/WhatIsTheRealFeminism/

TAPriceCTR · 2022-08-04T11:52:54+00:00

Feminism is as feminism does. If the only "feminists" who fight for actual EQUALITY are excommunicated like Christina Hoff Sommers, but literally violent man haters like Valerie Solanas are still cited and respected feminist academics, it doesn't matter what bullshit feminists SAY defines their religion, what matters is how feminist leadership acts. Feminism has less to do with equality than Westboro has to do with "spreading the pure love of Christ"

PrimeWolf88 · 2022-08-04T18:46:26+00:00

Lucky for you this conflict is solved already as feminists don't care about men. Modern feminists despise and actually push for men to have less rights, while the women keep getting more and more privileges.

aerial_coitus · 2022-08-04T04:26:16+00:00

You are out to lunch.

DirtyPartyMan · 2022-08-04T05:57:42+00:00

Well said. I watch the division and the infighting over societal scraps as those dividing us grow stronger in the absence of our attention.

BlackVirusXD3 · 2022-08-04T07:57:14+00:00

The reason its called feminism (i havent exactly researched but im certain thats the case from several reasons) is that feminism WAS actually meant to empower women, just not above men, but instesd TO men's level. It is about empowering women to men's EQUALITY, which made sense like.. i'd argue even 50 years ago (and further). But women arent below men anymore for a very long time and at this point i'd argue they are even above, so feminism is basically dead as it had 1 goal and it was achieved. People didnt notice it is the case until the purpose of it was forgotten, and now "feminists" just abuse and ruin it, im sure if the REAL feminists 100 years ago saw what our current world looks like they would be disgussed by modern "feminism".

TheSnesLord · 2022-08-04T09:08:04+00:00

Thanks, i'am a man and i think the same as you. I'am with feminism as long as it is for women's right, the problem i have with it is when they started saying all men are priviledged and part of the problem. While in reality only wealthy men are priviledged but also wealthy women..
Sometimes i feel that as a man with disabilites society dont care about my issues and that i worth less than a human.
I'am for equality and human right for everyone no matter of gender or color.

Hound_of_Hell · 2022-08-04T09:09:51+00:00

I agree with all the dot points.
It sucks that alot of men's issues, either legally or socially, get shoved aside.
I wish we would all work together as a human race, and stop making everything a privilege competition.
Thank you for this post, an upvote and award from me <3

thedesiwriter · 2022-08-04T09:21:07+00:00

The last two pointers were like icing on the cake. People judge you so bad for being a man. I sometimes despise the fact that I am a man - so much hatred these days.

DrClu33 · 2022-08-04T10:05:00+00:00

We should start a new phrase Humanist/humanism - the belief that everyone is or should be equal regardless of sex and that we are all one species first

mykoiy · 2022-08-04T12:14:45+00:00

Thanks! It was refreshing to see a feminist talk about our issues. I hope you educate your friends about our issues too. :)

Buff_Blaize · 2022-08-04T12:43:03+00:00

I comepleatly agree, but for as long as there are female radicals there should be allowed male radicals. Radical groups are needed to invoke radical change. Although I completely agree with you, we should just be united under one name because words are confusing.

Ltdee2005 · 2022-08-04T13:14:06+00:00

May I dm you because I feel like this is something I’ve been thinking about a lot of I’d love someone to talk about it eith

ImJustHereForCorn · 2022-08-04T13:24:07+00:00

So then don't call it feminism, call it equalism or something. Feminism used to have a good name for itself, now it's nothing but man hating.

The draft has to happen no matter what. The initial right to vote meant you were a citizen and as a citizen you have a duty to protect and serve your country. So yes, if women want to vote then they MUST serve if called upon.

But otherwise you hit the nail on the head for a lot of what Men's Rights advocates for.

ExpertRacer · 2022-08-04T13:25:06+00:00

A good replacement for feminism could be Equalism, Pronounced ‘Eh-Qua-lism’ very simple, it’s already coming into existence, plus it could mean you believe in a lot of other things, Equality of the Races, religious Equality, it’s a good umbrella term

Hulose77 · 2022-08-04T13:44:08+00:00

Hey i just wanna say your post made my day a little bit more better and i wanna thank you for that :)

Manny631 · 2022-08-04T13:55:35+00:00

Thank you for your words and logic. This is why I always say I'm against modern day radicalized feminism that doesn't seek equality (which women have had for some time now, in my opinion), but seeks to cut down men at every turn and wants preferential treatment. Modern day feminism fabricates myths like the gender pay gap to stay relevant and stoke the flames. They also get major backing from the main stream media and celebrities and such. But when the facts come out, they are basically suppressed. And when an actual men's issue is brought up, they literally laugh. They then go on and make posts like their "not all men" posts on the femaledatingstrategy sub. If men did that they'd be banned from Reddit forever.

And I totally agree with the terminology. If it were about both genders being equal, it should be called something neutral like the "gender equality movement" or something.

DanBollinger · 2022-08-04T14:44:04+00:00

I've been saying the name sucks, too. But they've had 30-40 to change the name, which tells me that the leadership has a hidden agenda. You can't promote equality with a biased name.

cecilofs · 2022-08-04T14:59:40+00:00

Can we just call it egalitarianism

See that's really the point. There is/was already a word for equality. Feminism is NOT what you think it is.

All of your points are spot on.

Professor_Ozpin_1 · 2022-08-04T15:25:20+00:00

I’m actually really glad you pointed all of this out. I thought I was the only one who noticed all the shoes and I thought I was being ridiculous for thinking that these were issues, I also like that you point out that just being a feminist does not make you sexist, and I’d like to point this out too. It’s just like with men being stereotyped with rape. Just because you’re a feminist, does not mean you’re a sexist. Some are, but certainly not all of them

Nacht_Waya · 2022-08-04T16:37:21+00:00

Movements come in waves. 1st and 2nd wave feminism had valid causes. 3rd and 4th wave are extremist movements attempting to grind a certain part of the population under the heel of Misandric power hungry female fascists. Control over white, Christian Males.

Algoresball · 2022-08-04T16:46:16+00:00

Feminism is a word that lost all meaning because it means vastly different things to different people. It’s like the word “nerd”. It’s not a useful description anymore

McFeely_Smackup · 2022-08-04T17:43:54+00:00

I am a feminist as per it's definition that women and men are equal.

that's 'egalitarianism'. Feminism has never been about anything but elevating women, that's why it's named that.

OliveGS · 2022-08-04T21:03:14+00:00

I'm so sorry. If I'm wrong it's my fault. But I always thought feminists, by definition, hated men. Agree. Everybody should be treated equally, regardless of gender.

mechajutaro · 2022-08-04T21:11:23+00:00

The label you wear is of less importance than how one behaves. if you and other feminists that you're in contact with support things like making shared parenting legislation the law of the land, ending a drug war which disproportionately affects men, abolishing Title iX star chambers which not only convict the innocent frequently enough but which also fail to protect the public from violent criminals, and increasing access to vocational training, we need you to mobilize on the ground and form partnerships not with organizations which are agitating for all of the above

These aren't gendered problems anyway.... They're American problems. The sooner we leave identity politics back in the 10s where they belong, the saner we'll all be

Thanics · 2022-08-04T23:20:24+00:00

Egalitarianism!

2022-08-04T23:46:12+00:00

Same, the word feminism was relevant until the 80s because it was mainly about women empowerment and liberation of oppression. But nowadays, the word feminism is irrelevant. We should use a gender agnostic term. I cringe when I see people saying feminism is about gender equality, because in reality it doesn't even remotely looks like that's the cause they fight for. Nowadays, it's more about having more privileges than men.

Neusprince · 2022-08-05T01:52:06+00:00

I would love to see this posted in pro woman and other feminist groups. You nailed it on the head. It's not level headed people like this that are the issue. It's the misandrist and the SJWs who think women are perfect and can do no wrong. They give real egalitarians like yourself a bad name.

Appropriate-Ad9734 · 2022-08-06T07:49:30+00:00

I don’t care what type of feminism it’s bad for men and society

_MrNegativity_ · 2022-08-04T03:47:44+00:00

0d old acc, only posted on r/MensRights, didn't even visit others

All for the sentiment but there's gotta be some skepticism on this. It doesn't feel right.

Jellyfish_13 · 2022-08-04T04:27:42+00:00

Wow, Im a lurker here and I've seen this sub prove some amazing and interesting points about unfair things feminists say and unfair things towards men in general. The feel this sub gave me was breathtaking when I joined and that feeling is still the same.

So I read your post and expected most of the comments to be very enthusiastic about a feminist that is eager to discuss both sides, admits that each side has its problems to deal with and is trying for a change in the way some feminists view things.

To my surprise the comments were filled with negativity. I don't understand why but most of the people that commented focus on unimportant things and seem very biased. This is even more surprising cause most of the time when someone says something controversial, people here don't usually shut them down and try to explain their point and even change their mind sometimes.

I don't know if I'm missing something or I'm too early in the comments before more people speak their mind but please don't think all r/mensrights members go against a feminist just because shes a feminist. I personally agree with the points you made and it gives me hope that there are women who recognise both sides' struggles. I'm pretty sure that I'm not the only one here who thinks the same.

needalife94 · 2022-08-04T06:33:16+00:00

Welcome to the sub. Thank you for checking it out.

There is one that you didn't mention and that is that men don't have the right to chose wether or not they become parents.

Sandwhale123 · 2022-08-04T10:18:37+00:00

Term is egalitarian, if you are truly for equal right for both sexes.

xsplizzle · 2022-08-04T11:37:47+00:00

After knowing all that you listed and knowing that feminism is more anti male than pro female, how can you still call yourself a femist and continue being part of a movement of hate?

willtafty19 · 2022-08-04T21:29:30+00:00

I don’t know if height preferences are really as bad as people claim. I’ve never heard of anyone only being able to stomach dating someone over 6’. I think it’s a manufactured oppression for men to feel like they also face lots of body shaming. While men can and do get body shamed and feel self-conscious, the height thing just doesn’t seem like a real thing.

heeroena · 2022-08-04T02:28:55+00:00

It is obvious that you don't understand the male experience if you want think men and women are equal. Men are the disposable sex. If you want to be equal to that then by all means.

coming2grips · 2022-08-04T05:34:43+00:00

Call it whatever you want, it's not feminism. What's the point of is post? Trying to feel better about your choices?

JP_Reeses_Pieces · 2022-08-04T05:18:45+00:00

As much as I understand your sentiments, I can’t really agree with this. I don’t believe women and men are equal because they’re created differently and are wired differently. Sure, if we are talking about by law, then yes, we should all have the same rights like voting, working, owning property, etc. Maybe guys on r/MensRights have a different perspective on this as I do, but I don’t believe in an egalitarianism perspective, I have a more red pill/traditionalist perspective.

Men are on average (emphasis on that) stronger and taller than women, so they are the more dominant sex, compared to women, and women are the less dominant gender, therefore they must be protected as well as children. Sure, women say they want a man that’s equal to them, but women are hypergamous by nature (they date men on average that are above them, financially, height wise, and strength wise). Women want a man they can lean on. So by that logic it makes sense to have the man work the job while the woman stays at home with her newborn baby, not the other way around. Men find more meaning in what “they do” compared to women, and being a provider/protector is one of those things, where women find more meaning in being a mother compared to working. Ask any mother out there if they had an option to choose between their job or being a mother, 9/10 they would say mother, and men if given that same question, would pick their jobs 9/10 times. Sure, I’m not saying there aren’t outliers but that’s the standard usually speaking.

The problem I have with a lot of feminists is they assume stuff about men without really understanding them too well. They assume there’s toxic masculinity, and therefore men displaying any sort of masculinity, toughness, manning up, or not opening up our problems is bad (masculinity is actually good! It’s so good that it’s needed in this 21st century). I actually accomplished a lot more in my life when I realized talking doesn’t do anything to further my life, doing is what gets me further in life, especially if talking about my problems made me feel much worse than before, and it got no one to care about my struggles. It made me think, should I just sit around and mope, expecting someone to care about me, or do I utilize the time I have wisely and spend it on building my life? I would take the latter. Plus, contrary to your point, men are strong and independent. They don’t need anybody. Men can live and die alone, women need companionship either through a relationship or through friends/female friends. Also, women have to always butt in and control the narrative, and that is not and never okay with me, and feminism is what’s destroying our society, our nuclear family structure, and masculinity. I will always be a firm defender of the patriarchy no matter what.

As for your bullet points that you made about men, I would agree that’s a pretty good description of the struggles men go through. Other than the law when it comes to divorced parents and custody rights, there’s really nothing much men and women can do to change the narrative, and yes, while I agree men and women have struggles, there’s beauty in those struggles and it’s best to embrace each other’s struggles as best as we can, and not try our best to eliminate it. I personally think equality and egalitarianism between the two sexes is a false god. The problem with egalitarianism, too, is that it usually requires men to let their guard down and “drop themselves down a notch” while women can get ahead and climb over them, and men can’t afford to do that. The moment men give an inch, women will take a mile. Look at the constant misandry that’s going on right now.

IceCorrect · 2022-08-04T11:36:06+00:00

When you write about your idol, I remember she write some great example what feminizm is and even today feminist use this all the time - shaming women who are using their free will to not hating man or picking family over her boss. So glad AirSailer bring this. Imagine if men would say how women arent allowed to have free will. Realy inspiring person she was

No, we don’t believe that any woman should have this choice. No woman should be authorized to stay at home to raise her children. Society should be totally different. Women should not have that choice, precisely because if there is such a choice, too many women will make that one. It is a way of forcing women in a certain direction.

Alarming_Draw · 2022-08-04T19:19:59+00:00

Feminism....

...is evil

...is bullshit

...is lying

....is a conspiracy of manhaters against decent men

...is women wanting more for far less-not equality

...is irrational bitter women, wanting revenge on men

...anyone else wish to add their own ideas about what feminism is....?

mx30mark · 2022-08-04T03:11:00+00:00

A feminist telling men what to think.

360bagel360 · 2022-08-04T04:50:56+00:00

We get this post once a week already. If you want to help so much you can start by respecting our safe space and virtue signal for attention elsewhere. Go away.

Imissyourgirlfriend2 · 2022-08-04T13:34:25+00:00

You're a Camille Paglia or Christina Hoff Sommers Egalitarian Feminist, which isn't really feminist in the modern wave/sense of the word.

AspirationsOfFreedom · 2022-08-04T08:00:48+00:00

I dont see why you chose to call yourself a feminist and masculinist, when you know about Egalitarianism. Why not take things you like from both sides and just call yourself an egalitarianist? Thats how the movement grows.

There is so much toxicity in the feminist movement as they continiously drag other issues into their flock and infight like rabid dogs... and if you don't agree with their core, they'll outright block you for speaking against their bible.

AndyBrown65 · 2022-08-04T08:07:30+00:00

You are “an egalitarian”

Aardwolfington · 2022-08-04T14:59:43+00:00

Egalitarian is the word you're looking for, you are correct on that.

MaxTheCatigator · 2022-08-04T15:28:02+00:00

You're not a feminist, that's a political movement to increase women's powers, advantages and privileges without any responsibilities based on their sex alone. That makes it a fundamentally and deeply sexist movement. You may have heard "with great power comes great responsibility", feminism is on the first part exclusively.

Your "I'm feminist+masculinist" makes you a humanist. The mere fact that the feminists don't use that or a similar term shows that the movement is on their own privileges only. Humanism has been developed and established during the renaissance and enlightenment aras, there's no need for a new term if it was intended for the benefit of everyone.

TelevisionAdept6947 · 2022-08-04T15:47:36+00:00

I disagree with the 6 foot one. I have seen many boys in my school who are 5 foot 4 who get girls that are taller

LionVenom10 · 2022-08-04T15:53:00+00:00

If you believe in equality but don’t have a bias towards women you’re not a feminist then, you’re egalitarian.

dartfiredragoon · 2022-08-04T18:13:27+00:00

This woman knows what’s up😤👍

Strontium_9T · 2022-08-04T21:05:50+00:00

Call it 3rd wave feminism. It’s not an equality movement. It’s a supremacy movement.

gatewayev700 · 2022-08-04T15:19:54+00:00

Wow this is so obviously written by a man role playing as a woman??? Y’all really eating this up?

Azihayya · 2022-08-04T16:52:29+00:00

I think that feminism is fine. It can be for equality while being a women's movement that emphasizes women's issues. And we can have an equality movement for men, if we do it responsibly. I don't think r/mensrights is that place, or that movement. I don't think this is a place where most of its members come seeking advice, validation and a genuine concern for men and men's rights. I see way too much of men here just seeking to annihilate feminism, deny the historical and modern struggles of women, and even seeking to establish hegemonic masculinity--and these are each radical ideologies that are well tolerated and even supported here. Every time we get a post like this the guys do their best to prop up a wolf-in-sheep's-clothing cover picture for our sub.

Here's a thread that is blatantly transphobic that gets a lot of upvotes.

We have so many guys who hold strict gender essentialist ideas about what women's role and behavior is, coming from the manosphere, etc--and there is no pushback against these guys here. (Video series by F.D. Signifier on the Manosphere: Part 1 Part 2)

Gender Essentialism that Portends the Destruction of Civilization at the Hands of Feminism

Gender Essentialism Theory on Feminists Motivation being Penis Envy, with Homophobia

Gender Essentialism, Denial of the Historic Condition of Women

This men's rights movement has become so overzealed with the notion of establishing male oppression that we have courted the most heinous ideologies just to bring men in. I think that healthy men's rights movement isn't so enraptured with indignation that we push every other social justice movement away and deny their struggles--instead, a healthy men's rights group adapts, is able to show vulnerability and incorporates itself into the existing groundwork of intersectional justice. This movement has become an enemy to everyone, just so that we can play the part of the victim, because we think that we can emulate other social justice movements by doing so.

Ohnoes34 · 2022-08-04T16:01:43+00:00

Welcome..nothing wrong with feminism. You struggle as much as we

BaileysBaileys · 2022-08-04T17:37:44+00:00

Hey, fellow feminist and masculinist here. Generally you won't have a good time on this forum when you come forward as (also) a feminist, and so I don't participate a lot here anymore, but it's good to know others like me exist!

2505Memeiverse · 2022-08-04T22:50:33+00:00

Mega based

Lecomodore · 2022-08-04T08:50:39+00:00

You have made some great points. I totally understand why many people don't want any connection to a label of man or woman. I still think people should stick with themselves being either man or woman but not my desicion. There is a lot of pressure against men and women to be a man or a woman. They say there are no expectations for both sexes but people still act like it. It only takes a bad apple to declare the whole barrel tainted. Both men and women are equally different. Neither better nor worse.

dont-believe-me- · 2022-08-04T09:12:22+00:00

Normal penis?

gypsy-fucker · 2022-08-04T09:17:27+00:00

Thank you and good luck.

glodde · 2022-08-04T11:40:12+00:00

We need a movement called humanism

blrfn231 · 2022-08-04T13:04:39+00:00

Humanist statement right there. Thank you.

Why don´t we introduce something really revolutionary like "humanism"? Ever heard of that? ;)

I especially appreciate you having read de Beauvoir and probably other feminist literature. I feel, some just use slogans out of context, like to reject in general and like to be part of something bigger without having educated themselves on the matter in the least bit

I mean to say: sometimes the positions of opposing parties are closer than they think. Both sides simply enjoy dragging each other through the mud so much, they never think about concentrating on the common ground and prefer to battle over an often small difference.

jasonrodrigue · 2022-08-04T13:38:21+00:00

Well considering that the group of feminism doesn’t reject and denounce the evil part, I would think about calling myself something else, such as an egalitarian. People and groups tell you what side they are on with their actions. Also groups tend to require too much group think, which might seem contradictory with what I just said, but it isn’t. The spirit of a group or a movement should have a good and forthright nature. Advocating for privileges or special rights that you can use unnatural power (the law) to use as a bludgeoning tool against someone else. Or if you you give someone an advantage or opportunity at the expense of another. That is evil. The natural way of work is to have your labors and efforts, along with your attitude be the contributing factor of your results (basically internal characteristics), not just how you were born (external characteristics). Some people are more skillful, hardworking, disciplined, smarter, stronger, more resilient, more trustworthy, more willing to sacrifice than others and they should be able to achieve at a higher level. No one should be given entitlements to pervert the natural order of skills, efforts, commitment, and rewards. Feminism like to promote the idea that anytime men outperform women it is the result of some form of bigotry or discrimination. They also like to try to brainwash people by just declaring things as if they are the truth and saying them angrily to manipulate people’s perceptions, acting sad to make people want to help the wounded, and other methods of rabble rousing to try and create whatever perception they want to paint into people’s minds. Why else don’t they ever argue their points dispassionately and calmly to try and use sound reasoning to try and state a case for their cause. This is why I say it is usually wrong. I’m sure that some thing or another has been rightly pursued in the pursuit of feminism. Feminism tries to strip everyone of their autonomy and tries to put everyone into categories, and have a sort of aristocratic status system based off your external identity. According to them, no one is anything more than their identity, and certain categories of people’s words, pain, or other are more inherently valuable than others based on who they are externally.

AutoModerator · 2022-08-04T13:54:54+00:00

[permanently deleted]

hostility_kitty · 2022-08-04T15:34:53+00:00

With a lot of the issues you mentioned, it can be easily solved by having a partner who doesn't follow societal expectations and gender roles.

2022-08-04T15:52:00+00:00

Bro we have a name for that shit… humanist 😂

Lui_Le_Diamond · 2022-08-04T15:56:16+00:00

r/egalitarianism

Cerberus11x · 2022-08-04T23:52:42+00:00

You should start calling yourself an egalitarian or something. Thanks though, knowing that someone sees it gives hope

TessaBrooding · 2022-08-04T11:04:23+00:00

Call yourself an egalitarin then. Complaining that feminism is a thing is like complaining about BLM as opposed to All Lives Matter. Feminism started to specifially address inequalities faced by women.

I refuse to let the term feminism fall to an exlusively derogatory term because some people do dumb shit while proclaiming it feminism. The movement has such a long and cool history that a few decades and a couple outliers shouldn’t kill it. I look up to last century feminists, especially in my country. They achieved great things and became national heroes. That’s what matters to me.

Mxrplusfan · 2022-08-04T03:03:03+00:00

Drafts aren’t really a thing now

Miss_Tako_bella · 2022-08-04T05:48:55+00:00

You have that opinion because you live in an era (and country) where the sexes are pretty much equal so that extra focus isn’t as needed on only 1 sex.

That a privilege afforded to you by past feminists, just FYI

You would understand if you lived in a society where women were truly under an oppressive force and a movement was really truly needed to focus on them, to change their lives.

The issues you listed for men are petty compared to what oppression women were under in the past and what they face in other countries today

Title	Feminism
Author	360bagel360
Upvotes	964
Comments	485
Date	August 3, 2022 11:49 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/wflyi7/feminism/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/feminism.1126358 https://theredarchive.com/post/1126358

Comments