MRM is apparently offensive, uneeded, and not worth anyone's time. According to the DailyUW, college newspaper. "An open letter to men's rights activists"

jmnzz · 2013-04-18T21:15:17+00:00

"Feminism is the answer to men's issues, now shut the fuck up when women are speaking. Women are oppressed and men are not. Women deserve spaces and men do not. You aren't the disadvantaged group, so shut the fuck up and we'll get to your insignificant issues when we feel like it."

Ah feminists. Champions of equality indeed.

Ma99ie · 2013-04-18T22:06:40+00:00

I fail to understand how feminists can repeatedly state that there is no need for a men's rights movement, and that feminism helps men.

Because of feminism, title ix, a gender neutral statute has been utilized to benefit only women, and has resulted in sports being cut for men. Because of feminism, the quantum of evidence needed to slander someone as a "rapist" on a college campus has been dropped to an absurd level (perponderance of evidence), where a woman can charge a man, who she was dating, with rape years after the alleged incident, subjecting him to an Orwellian disciplinary process.

Because of feminism, domestic violence is now treated as based on "patriarchal control," requiring police to engage in a biased analysis that results in "arrest the man" because of the "context the situation" - i.e., again, arrest the man. Where men are routinely thrown out of their own house, without their possessions, based on no evidence

Because of feminism, four year old children can, with a straight face, be labeled as rapists by his own feminist father.

Because of feminism, there is a vicious campaign to demonize men with defamatory studies, utilizing outrageously false statistics ("Hate Statistics") generated by "Women's Studies" departments.

Because of feminism, rape shield laws have gone into effect, ensuring that innocent men will be thrown in prison.

Because of feminism, the huge disparity in academic achievement between boys and girls, and between college aged men and women ("Boy Crisis"), are discounted so that we can ignore the plight of boys, for fear that resources will be taken away from girls, who are excelling in education.

Feminists are full of sh*t, and that's why we need a MRM.

MRMRising · 2013-04-18T21:23:41+00:00

Turns out that when women try to get uppity, people get upset.

No, people get upset when woman get misandric.

paracog · 2013-04-18T21:43:07+00:00

Basic life rule: If you refuse to hear and understand the feedback the world is giving you, it will come back later louder and harder.

Sasha_ · 2013-04-18T21:44:54+00:00

Yawn. Feminists never have anything new to say do they?

CrossHook · 2013-04-18T21:09:49+00:00

Show me someone who says we don't need a men's movement and I'll show you a feminist bigot.

Drop_ · 2013-04-18T22:00:09+00:00

Any UW students or alumni willing to write a response to send to whoever publishes Op Eds? I feel this type of advocacy would be good, and it would be more powerful for the student paper if it came from a student or alumni.

Some of her claims are so outlandish:

Men are hurt by rape culture because it implies that they are the rapists, and not ever the ones being raped — insinuating they have no self-control or compassion. Men are hurt by portrayals of abuse because in the media they are the abusers and almost never the abused.

So wait, if rape culture is what perpetuates the idea that men are "the rapists," then why is feminism the one that likes to treat every man as a potential rapist, and put the onus on all men to stop rape as if they are all collectively "the rapist"? Doesn't that make feminism a big part of "rape culture"? Feminism is the primary pusher of the idea that men are always the abusers and never the abused, does that mean they're part of the problem as well?

This is a fairly poorly written and researched article. When the primary complaint is that women are the subject of catcalls and don't have "pay equality" I have to roll my eyes when they try to play down men's very serious issues dealing with mortality and access to education.

Moo2400 · 2013-04-18T23:47:08+00:00

My response to this editorial:

Where are the feminist protests against the mutilation of male genitals in this country? Where are the feminist protests against the prison rape epidemic against men being regarded as a joke in American pop culture? Where is the feminists' advocacy for lobbying for resources and raising awareness for the disproportionately high male suicide rate? It's as if on one hand feminists say they're all for equal rights and treatment, but on the other would completely ignore any issues men have in this society. It's fine if feminists want to focus solely on women's issues, I have no problem with that, but there are pertinent issues facing men in this society today which need to be resolved NOW, not at some unspecified date in the distant future when the patriarchy will supposedly be toppled by feminists. This is why I support men's rights.

Pixelwizard92 · 2013-04-19T06:14:15+00:00

even as a feminist, I'd hardly call you guys "offensive". like, so you want to focus on issues like bias child custody courts and the reclaiming of positive masculinity (subjects which feminism admittedly puts on the back burners), it's all good.

Miracle_Fruit · 2013-04-18T23:46:24+00:00

Oh lord, that comic at the top.

Wait, where's my robe and throne? I'm a man, aren't I supposed to have one? And what about that guy next to him, what's he doing besides looking angry?

Maybe he's just the king's indentured servant. Male privilege!

CycleAsAVehicle · 2013-04-19T00:22:59+00:00

First, some background for any bystanders who need it: Men’s rights activists (MRAs) have been growing in number for a while as a sort of counter-movement against feminism. Turns out that when women try to get uppity, people get upset. Undoing thousands of years of oppression? That doesn’t sit well with MRAs.

But back to you, MRAs. I’ve seen you on the Internet, commenting on articles about feminist issues. “But what about the men?” is your rallying cry. I wouldn’t be surprised if you comment on this article — prove me wrong, please.

Have these guys never heard of a straw man argument?

Mr_Rivers · 2013-04-18T22:28:20+00:00

Ah, the death cries of yet another feminist bigot.

justTheQTip · 2013-04-18T23:58:00+00:00

I am so unbelievably embarrased this is coming from my school...

OuiCrudites · 2013-04-18T22:39:13+00:00

Check out home skillet Forrest Taylor in the comments. His righteous anger burns with the light of a thousand faps to pictures of Ellen Page.

2013-04-19T01:11:31+00:00

I'm so embarrassed this is coming from my hometown. It's not even bringing anything new to the table. It's cyber-feminism 101. "The whole world speaks on your behalf/patriarchy", "Feminism is not just for women", and a lecture on rape culture. How uninspiringly by-the-numbers. Who does this article reach out to? I don't even pay attention to gender-war blog spheres and I've seen this stuff a hundred times before, let alone anyone else labeled an MRA.

Forget it even aligning with my personal views, there's not even any intellectual substance here from the opposing viewpoint. An opinion piece by a journalism student that should probably switch majors...

Aaod · 2013-04-19T03:28:42+00:00

Men don’t have to deal nearly as often (or at all) with cat-calling, victim blaming, unequal pay, objectification, rape culture, and so on

Cat calling- male disposability or the fact no one cares about men being unwanted unlike women.

Victim blaming- happens to everyone and it is more of common sense stuff in the case of rape that we think would help. Why take chances?

Unequal pay- disproved multiple times.

objectification- see cat calling as well as women are objectified on looks men are objectified on things such as their wallet.

rape culture- Does not exist no sane person thinks rape is okay and most of it is more tied into other things such as religion, sports culture, and people in general being morons instead of it being a rape culture.

Try again and next time try and look at it from another perspective to see how it sucks just as bad to be a guy in most respects we have our own issues and should not be fighting each other when the other is struggling as well. The crabs pulling each other back in analogy comes to mind. Your issues are not more important than another persons.

sfinney2 · 2013-04-18T23:59:54+00:00

I like how the basic premise is "we're definitely right and you're wrong, so your input is unnecessary and distracting". I mean it's kind of logical in it's own special way.

hahaz13 · 2013-04-19T03:08:26+00:00

"I wouldn’t be surprised if you comment on this article — prove me wrong, please."

So essentially he/she (I can't tell what gender they are, what kind of a name is Indigo...) is saying, "Here, I'll talk shit about MRA's and MRA's are whiny and annoying especially if they comment on this article. But if they don't it's fine even though I'm going to say how MRA's are retarded".

Okay "Indigo". Go back to the color spectrum and be the only color no one really likes because you're just a shade of purple.

philinspirit · 2013-04-18T23:12:27+00:00

There is really no need to respond to this type of thing. The writer doesn't make falsifiable claims or substantive arguments -- it's just sloganeering. It's like: "women are oppressed and men aren't, nyah, nyah, nyah." We know that there are plenty of people who have this reaction to anything that is outside of the confines of feminist ideology. But's it's an encouraging that this piece would appear in a college newspaper. It means that men's issues are starting to appear on the radar of younger people.

iggybdawg · 2013-04-18T23:36:24+00:00

Check my privilege? Check your oppression!

Blacks in 1800's USA: oppressed

Jews in WWII Germany: oppressed

Women in 2013 USA: not oppressed

eats_puppies · 2013-04-19T00:20:59+00:00

though men can certainly be raped, such violence occurs more often against women.

bitch, please

Sebatron · 2013-04-19T01:48:10+00:00

your cause is [...] not worthy of attention.

Then why are you giving it attention?

Straw3 · 2013-04-19T04:02:10+00:00

Dear men’s rights activists,

I think someone needs to directly address you.

Stopped reading right then and there. The arrogance of that opening line..

luxury_banana · 2013-04-19T12:20:05+00:00

Really goes to show you who actually has the power and is fighting to keep that monopoly. (It's the feminists)

memymineown · 2013-04-18T23:10:08+00:00

First of all, posting here about how she is wrong or how angry it makes you does nothing.

What is slightly better is going over there and showing how she is wrong by being courteous, intelligent, logical and non combative.

What would be even better would be for people to start their own in real life group to disprove the things she is saying about the Men's Rights Movement with their actions. MRAs are winning the internet but have a long way to go when it comes to real life and affecting policy.

sunset261 · 2013-04-19T01:54:57+00:00

oh the old "MRAs are just males who are upset that women have rights now" argument. fucking please.

Kampane · 2013-04-19T01:36:21+00:00

Someone asked to swap men and women in this post to illustrate how this sounds with the shoe on the other foot. I have delivered: http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1coq7s/an_open_letter_to_feminists_fixed/ Edit - Changed examples of absurdity per requests.

ThePigman · 2013-04-19T02:45:20+00:00

My comment, lest it be deleted...

"Can't comment, busy worrying about the life expectancy gap, the education gap, the suicide gap, the incarceration gap and other matters that prove i don't need to exist."

Xenoith · 2013-04-19T08:28:26+00:00

"with cat-calling, victim blaming, unequal pay, objectification, rape culture"

I'll give them cat-calling, which I don't consider an issue. But men are constantly told they are pussies or it's their fault for being too weak if someone hurts them and they couldn't defend themselves. If a woman abuses a man, they're told many reasons why it's their fault and to suck it up.

Unequal pay isn't a problem from every statistic I've seen. Overall it exists, but not because of discrimination, or not mainly because of it.

Men are objectified just as much as women, no idea where this bullshit came from that they aren't. If anything men are held to standards insanely higher than women. Most average or ugly women I know can get laid, usually only very impressive men I know can easily get laid and anyone who is short, overweight, has bad style/hair, isn't muscular or hipsterish has trouble getting even a girlfriend because of the high standards we set on men. That or you need a shit ton of money.

Rape culture certainly exists for men. Men are shamed if they come forward and are constantly told they can't even be raped. Prison rape is probably the most constant rape in the US and we encourage it.

UnicycleFan · 2013-04-19T09:50:54+00:00

I found a distinct lack of evidence and proof in that article.

PattyMayonaise · 2013-04-19T14:26:36+00:00

I got told yesterday advocating for men to have the same legal rights as women is the same as advocating for white people to have even MORE rights than black people.

Then I got told there was 'no way' I was a female, because I couldn't possibly want to live in a world where my husband and sons and brothers and father and uncles and friends and fellow citizens have the same legal rights as I do or where they can go to school and get the same quality of education.

I wouldn't call myself anything but an egalitarian, but the MRM is much more inline with those goals than the feminist movement. Oh, and also because Paul Elam is a dickhead, and often, the whole movement is bullshit and anyone who supports it believes everything he writes.

/facepalm

Papasmurf143 · 2013-04-19T01:30:21+00:00

I’m sure you’ve seen the countless articles detailing why your cause is offensive and why you’re not worthy of attention. But maybe someone should explain why your group doesn’t need to exist

no, i actually read one that was posted just yesterday.

tallwheel · 2013-04-19T02:11:21+00:00

How long is outright dismissal of the MRM going to qualify as a valid argument against it? I'm ready for feminists to move on to the next stage. What's the next stage again, Gandhi? Oh yes, next they get around to "fighting" the MRM.

AnnArchist · 2013-04-19T04:48:33+00:00

But when the focus is on women’s oppression

Thats not our focus. Thats your focus.

Take “safe spaces,” for example. They are exactly what they sound like. And when one of you shows up online and comments about how men are owed something, or how they are the real victims, or some other plea for validation, you are invading a safe space set up to talk about an oppressed group’s problems.

Thats not what we do. Its the fucking internet. Get over yourselves.

Rape culture is to blame for this.

Rape culture is a nonsensical and inflammatory term. No society in the west endorses rape. No culture endorses rape. Rapists rape. This is like suggesting that there is a theft culture in the hood. Its just needlessly inflammatory.

Feminist Gender Bigots use ‘Rape Culture’ to farm rape for profit and for false power as shown on A Voice for Men.”

Well, thats what they do.

A site like A Voice for Men is unnecessary — you don’t need a designated voice because the whole world already speaks on your behalf.

I guess you can't see anyone else's suffering but your own. Now sit the fuck down and let the empathetic adults talk.

To put it simply, men’s liberation can go two ways: when men are seen as being disadvantaged by the patriarchy and when men are seen as being inferior to women. (Guess which one is valid.)

Neither. The patriarchy doesn't exist in the west. Men aren't inferior nor are they superior. They are different and inequalities exist. Lets fix those.

Men are hurt by rape culture because it implies that they are the rapists, and not ever the ones being raped — insinuating they have no self-control or compassion.

Articles like this suggest that.

men are hurt by portrayals of abuse because in the media they are the abusers and almost never the abused.

So wait, we don't need a voice? You sure?

Men are hurt by “nice guy syndrome” because it destroys women’s agency to take initiative in a relationship.

What the fuck?

But a solution to all these issues already exists: feminism.

Fuck yourself.

There doesn’t need to be a separate movement because these issues were caused by the same oppression that cuts women down every day

No, it wasn't. Not everything has the same root cause.

But whereas a male feminist is devoted to equality and recognizing how oppression of women hurts everyone in the long run, men’s rights activists are devoted to whining.

Oh wow. ANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD whos whining now? Looks like the author is. . .

silent66 · 2013-04-19T05:57:15+00:00

Oh the irony.

UnicycleFan · 2013-04-19T09:51:14+00:00

I found a distinct lack of evidence and proof in that article.

Riverscr · 2013-04-19T11:36:05+00:00

My favorite parts of this are paragraph 3 and the end of paragraph 7. The third is basically a paradox of identity. The author literally asks people who disagree to not reply knowing that they will reply and then intends for that action to be a means of strengthening their case? I'd say it was a smart tactic if it weren't so transparent and humorous. It's just X will happen because X is X and if you show me ~X then you're proving X, right?

Paragraph 7's last sentence is just a nitpicking on my part. The last sentence is an argumentative claim that is not later supported or cited. We're supposed to just accept it for the sake of the argument provided by the author. Sorry, but that's just not something most people (should) do.

AnthonyZarat · 2013-04-19T14:15:40+00:00

My comment to a feminist that denied that there is any discrimination against men and boys in the law:

Example: The word "women" appears 138 times in the Affordable Care Act while the word "men" appears 2 times. See for yourself:

http://www.govtrack.us/congres...

Here are some examples:

"Establishment- There is established within the Office of the Director, an Office of Women’s Health ... "

"Establishing within the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Administration an Office of Women’s Health ... "

"There is established within the Office of the Director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, an office to be known as the Office of Women’s Health ..."

Three areas where men suffer far worse outcomes than women (USPSTF coverage rulings, substance abuse, and infectious diseases) have offices of women's health to help women solve their problems, but no office of men's health to help men solve our problems. Wake up, federal law contains over 90,000 discriminatory provisions that benefit women, but not men. State law is even worse. It is very hard to find even one law that DOES NOT openly and hatefully discriminate against men. This includes areas such as homelessness support in the housing bill (even though men are 92% of the unsheltered homeless), special education support in the education bill (even though boys are 200% more likely to drop out of school, and girls are 50% more likely to attend college), and violence prevention bills (even though men are the overwhelming majority of victims of violence).

Feminist discrimination is everywhere. In every law, hundreds of different discriminatory provisions. The fact that you are blind to this tidal wave of hate and bigotry does not make it disappear.

hexcloak · 2013-04-19T02:35:50+00:00

I can't take anyone that condescending seriously. The entire thing is dripping with histrionics and sarcasm.

Kampane · 2013-04-19T08:17:20+00:00

According to most sources, nine out of 10 rape victims are female. Rape culture is to blame for this.

So... she'd be happier if more men were raped?

To put it simply, men’s liberation can go two ways: when men are seen as being disadvantaged by the patriarchy and when men are seen as being inferior to women. (Guess which one is valid.)

I'll go out on a limb and guess... neither.

Here's the worst one:

Feminism is not just for women.

One whole paragraph after:

[men] don’t need a designated voice because the whole world already speaks on your behalf.

People like her are the reason we need the MRM. Really, how did her parents raise her?

Indigo Trigg-Hauger

Oh, that's her problem.

guest121 · 2013-04-19T08:40:06+00:00

Just commenting to find the link later. That first comment is great: short, to the point, touche big issues.

Ma99ie · 2013-04-18T21:37:57+00:00

It's a cute cartoon.

smokew33d4lyfe · 2013-04-19T19:28:19+00:00

IT IS UNNEEDED. All MRAS are misogynist assholes who can't pull their heads out of their asses and realize that women are equal to men. You all think that you're better than us just because you hold all the positions of power and oppress us women!
TL;DR eat shit

Title	MRM is apparently offensive, uneeded, and not worth anyone's time. According to the DailyUW, college newspaper. "An open letter to men's rights activists"
Author	pwnsomeandrew
Upvotes	152
Comments	136
Date	April 18, 2013 8:55 PM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/mensrights/comments/1cmqs4/mrm-is-apparently-offensive-uneeded-and-not-worth-/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/mrm-is-apparently-offensive-uneeded-and-not-worth.1610878 https://theredarchive.com/post/1610878

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