Thanks, UN. | MensRights

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Huh.

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I know you're joking, but to be serious for a moment. It isn't about rights, at least, not in america. When you think of people, you think of everyone; race, gender, whatever. The problem, is that, as a man, we see the world as men. We are different so therefore we see the world differently. The same is said for women. Women want to be treated by men as if they were equal, as if they were men. But that won't work, because in the end we all see eachother differently, because we are different.

Many feminists seem to be fighting for a middle ground, this idea of 'neutrality' but it won't work. It won't work because we are inherently different, biologically and psychologically. Sure, there are exceptions to the rule, women who feel they are meant to be men and vice versa, but you can't expect me to understand because I'm different, as are we all.

Now, I'm not saying here that women aren't mistreated because of their gender, they are. The problem I feel is that they see the fault in society as a whole, rather than a few individuals. We tell ourselves that these criminals on our streets and in our prisons were raised that way, yet when a man rapes a woman, or harasses her in the work place, it's because men are pigs, because it's how we think. But they can't know how we think, because like I said, we're all different.

Sorry for rambling, I'm just bored at work and felt like ranting

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It's not irrelevant. You're looking at it from a very negative angle. No one is saying that we should change things specifically to help a certain demographic, and that all other demographics are worthless and must suffer. They're just saying that this would be a positive change, and it would have more than one positive effect for a certain group of people. It's a win for everyone who is getting sick from the lack of bathrooms, but a double win for the people who are no longer getting assaulted every time they have to go, if they are able to install more bathrooms.

The way you look at things, should we never point out gender, race, sexuality, etc. risk factors for things? If we only look at how issues affect EVERYONE, that really narrows down what we care about.

[–]know_comment 9 points10 points11 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

No one is saying that we should change things specifically to help a certain demographic, and that all other demographics are worthless and must suffer.

they're doing it because it's a marketing angle. "women and children". Save the children. Help the helpless women.

But men are dangerous rapists and brutes. Especially MAMs (Military Aged Males). Don't you know that's the biggest threat to our society- even though it accounts for a huge proportion of the population?

I'm not putting down the fact that women have to deal with other issues, but when you're talking about sanitation and toilets- that affects everyone. There's not reason to make it into a sexist thing.

this is the type of rhetoric I'm commenting on:

a double win for the people who are no longer getting assaulted every time they have to go

the women are getting assaulted every time they have to shit! that's absolutely ridiculous, but this language is furthering that false notion.

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I didn't say it should, I was just explaining why the author chose to emphasize women and girls in their discussion of open defecation.

That being said, I definitely think that there's a lack of awareness in developed countries about some of the problems associated with a lack of sanitation infrastructure. I was unaware that a lack of sanitation and water resources was such a contributing factor to sexual violence in underdeveloped countries until I read about it today.

So calling attention to the lack of sanitation in other countries is an important thing to bring attention to. Whereas, I think that international men's day and international women's day are both pretty unimportant. So it doesn't seem especially unreasonable to emphasize international toilets day over international men's day. It certainly doesnt seem worth getting upset over.

[–]hegz0603 35 points36 points37 points 9 years ago (24 children) | Copy Link

[–]Halafax 12 points13 points14 points 9 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

Maybe I'm just missing something, but what rights do men lack in america, or around the world for that matter?

Equal custody, fairness in family court proceedings? Or not always being assumed to be the aggressor by police policy? How about the ability to report a sex crime without being ignored or laughed at? Or a safe place to take our kids when our partner is abusive. An equal education for boys. I've got a son and daughter in similar situations, the school bends over backwards for my daughter, it won't lift a finger for my son.

I have nothing against the importance of sanitation. I have nothing against women's day. What's the issue with a men's day? Men have problems, and your assessment of men's advantage seems to be built around the apex fallacy. Yup, CEOs are doing OK, it's a little murkier at the base of the mountain.

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So you have no clue of any issues facing men and boys and this is a sign we DON'T need an international men's day?

Boys have no right to genital integrity. Men are 3/4 of the suicides, 3/4 of the homeless, and around 40% of the domestic violence victims yet have access to 1/2000th of the shelters women do. There's a biased family court system that forces men into financial servitude while denying them access to their children every day.

The education system is failing boys and fewer are graduating from high school and college while girl's graduation rates have soared. I have no problem with women and girls doing better but why is it so taboo to attempt to address education now that boys are the ones who are behind?

Many of these issues affect men and boys outside of the west. Men in India cannot be raped and women cannot rape according to the law. Rape is defined as a crime a man commits against a woman (which is also how the UK defines it). Boko Haram was murdering hundreds, if not thousands, of men and boys in Nigeria for years before they kidnapped the 200 girls that gained international attention.

Is it so terrible to set aside a day to discuss these things as a society?

[–]Murgie -2 points-1 points0 points 9 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

[–]sociopathwithrice 8 points9 points10 points 9 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]Murgie -2 points-1 points0 points 9 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

and expressed confusion over what rights are lacking for men.

Maybe you should try alleviating that confusion by actually providing some examples of rights which we lack, rather than listing problems that you can't tie any absence of rights to.

But ok, sure. The UN has recognized International Women's Day for years, has a whole separate entity for addressing women's issues around the world,

Yeah, maybe venture outside your cozy little first world bubble once and a while, and you might pick up on why that is.

but the fact that they don't also have the same compassion for men and boys is my fault.

Nothing screams "I don't have a reasonable rebuttal but am unwilling to be an adult about it" like a transparent attempt at twisting another's words like that.

Please, make no attempt to use the information I provided you on exactly how you could easily see the UN recognize the day (they've already expressed support for it, for fuck sake, just waiting on someone to submit a proposal), and instead feed your need to be the victim even in things as trivial as internet discussions.

It's not as though that kind of behavior is what's poisoned the movement to mainstream society, or anything.

So just keep on doing what you do, the important thing here is how you feel.

[–]sociopathwithrice 8 points9 points10 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

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[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Here you go. . There's a list of issues men face. It's not about having "lack of rights".. the only right we lack that women have is the right to vote without having to register for the draft. But as you can see, there are many issues that specifically affect men and these are the issues MRA's are trying to bring awareness towards and fix.

EDIT: Well, you can also make the argument that men lack the right to chose when we become a parent. If the case of an accidental pregnancy, women have the right to chose whether or not they become a parent. They are allowed to get an abortion if they don't want to become a mother.

Men however, have no choice. In the case of an accidental pregnancy, a man's fate in solely in the woman's hands. This isn't right.. I'm not saying men should be able to force women to have an abortion, that's ridiculous. BUT... Men should be allowed to chose whether or not they want to be a parent as well. They should be given the right to have a "financial abortion" so to speak. The man can give up all rights to the child and also not be help responsible for providing for it.

Then it will go to the women.. if the man signed away his parental rights, then the woman has to chose whether or not she wants to continue with the pregnancy. It's her body so she gets that choice. But if the man signs away his responsibilities, then the woman will be solely responsible for the child if she decides to give birth. She gets to decide if she wants to be the sole parent. It's not fair that she gets to decide to keep the child even if th man doesn't want to be a parent, and she gets to decide something that will affect his life for the next 18 years. He becomes emotionally and financially responsible for a child without having any choice in the matter.

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Check out this comment I posted elsewhere in this thread. Read the part about Erin Pizzey and the Duluth model.

Right now there are thousands of DV shelters for women and only one for men. And out of the women's shelters, less than 5% are willing to take in men.

The one men's shelter that exists is in Canada and it's very close to shutting down because its not receiving any funding. I'll try to find some sources for it.

But definitely click on the Erin Pizzey link and read about her. Also, if you're really interested in learning how feminists have fought to silence research about male victims , and basically keep a monopoly on the DV violence issue, I encourage you to read Erin's book that she talks about in the link I provided. If you want a quick overview of the subject, just read the interview notes of her on that same link.

This shit has been going on for 40 years.. and for those 4 decades many male victims have suffered because of feminist policies and the actions of feminists trying to block help that is given for men.

This is one issue that is very important to me and I have lots of sources on my home computer but I'm currently at work and on mobile.

Please take the take and research this topic. You might realize that feminists have harmed men and fought against men's issues more than you ever could have imagined.

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Men doing physical labor are more likely to have open wounds. It doesn't need to be a competition between genders.

Sanitation is important for everyone. If sexual assault is an issue, it's probably an issue for men and boys being assaulted by men, as well. If the women are primarily responsible for getting fresh water, that means the men are responsible for something else.

How about SANITATION IS IMPORTANT. Improper sanitation leads to spread of disease and and a much lower quality of life. It compromises immune systems. It introduces pathogens to the environment. People die of diarrhea and dehydration. People get typhoid from contaminated water and food sources. This affects EVERYONE.

Proper Sanitation and access to potable water is probably THE MOST IMPORTANT health-related step that can be taken in any under-developed country. Making it about rape is ridiculous. Give these people a place to properly dispose of their waste!

[–]Triseult 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

I worked for an NGO in India that promoted water and sanitation, and yes, they are closely tied to women's issues.

For one thing, women are disproportionately affected by lack of clean water. They have to deal with things like washing their menstrual rags in dirty water, or getting infections from not having clean washing water.

The task of getting water for the entire village also befalls women. Men have to work, so women have to walk sometimes immense distances to get clean water for the family. For young girls, that means they don't have time to get a proper education.

Diseases like malaria thrive when there's contaminated water sources, and that can mean complications in childbirth. So that, too, is more of a woman problem.

Finally, open defecation is way harder for women than for men. For a guy, you just squat wherever the fuck you want and get on with it. Women have to find more secluded spots, because YES, rape and being shamed for your body is a real thing. Going at night means ending up in a bush with scorpions, snakes or any other sort of dangerous animals.

Having a clean toilet with running water is something we take for granted, but in a rural setting in India, it's really life-changing. For a young woman, it can mean an opportunity to go to school and elevate herself above her situation. It also means a much healthier life.

Edit: Just want to add, the purpose of World Toilet Day is to combat precisely the stigma demonstrated in this post: that toilets are a shameful, unspeakable things, when in truth they are a life-transforming thing that can save millions of lives.

[–]the_unseen_one 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Triseult 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Carrying water is work on top of everything else the women have to do, which includes work, cooking, rearing children, etc. It's not like women in impoverished rural areas just have to carry water, or else they'd be lounging all day.

It's a problem especially for young girls because 1) carrying water is a woman's responsibility, and 2) education is seen as important for boys and less so for girls. Which means, while the boys get to go to school because they need an education to eventually make good money and provide for their family, for girls it's often more important to fetch water than to get an education, since anyway their role will be to be married one day.

Education is key for men and women in impoverished areas to rise above their situation in life. It's way harder for girls, and access to water actually plays a huge role in this.

Look... This isn't about saying women have it harder or easier than men in those parts. This is about an all-around shitty situation, and this is about finding ways to help people of all genders escape it. Educating girls and boys improves everybody's lot in life. It just so happens that one factor limiting access to education specifically for girls is access to clean water near the home.

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[+]AKernelPanic points 9 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

The problem with this sub is the "us against them" mentality that it fosters. It could be a place where abused men find help or where men organize against the injustices they are passionate about, which are real.

Instead it's a bunch of men whining that women want to have more rights and control society. Real feminism (not tumblr feminism) is about equality, a lot of people in these kinds of subs complain that women only care about them without realizing that many of the subjects they bring also affect men. Abortion is good for both men and women. Gender roles are the reason women get paid less AND the reason men are bullied for being sentimental AND the reason women are awarded custody more often. Feminism is biased towards helping women because they suffer more from inequality right now, but it's not women trying to get rid of men most of the people here think.

I don't know what you mean when you say women have more rights but I'm almost sure you mean women have more protections, like women-only transports and such, but that is because men don't need those.

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[+]primo_pastafarian points 9 years ago* [recovered] (10 children) | Copy Link

Can someone please explain to me what rape has to do with implementing sewage and waste infrastructure?

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Taking Bihar state as a example (because it is in those articles), it has a population of 119 million and there were 400 rapes attributed to this issue according to the 2nd article (the BBC is not reliable btw). Adjusting per capita, the USA has 13x the number of murders as Bihar has rapes due to this issue and the UK has 37x the number of reported rapes.

I fully accept that there is still a risk there and that addressing it is very worthwhile. However perhaps the reason for this relatively low risk issue being pushed to the front of the policy wording ahead of boys and girls dying or getting sick in much greater numbers could be construed as typical politicization/hijacking of an issue by feminists.

For additional perspective, in Bihar around 17,000 under 5s die of rotavirus every year. Much more taking into account all diarrhoeal deaths.

So boys and girls are much more vulnerable to risks associated with open defecation than women. But it's "women and girls" as usual.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[+]caribou16 points 9 years ago [recovered] (11 children) | Copy Link

I mean, proper sanitation is a pretty big issue for a lot of the world. And all of November is "Movember" now, so I'm not too upset by this.

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I don't think you know what disingenuous means, and I know you have no idea how the UN works, so let me lay this out in a nutshell for you:

The UN can't just do whatever the hell it wants because it feels like making a statement. It's a lot like parliament, someone needs to introduce a motion before a vote is going to be held and a conclusion reached in either direction.

You want the UN to recognize Men's day? Then go petition the representative of whatever country you happen to live in to propose that the UN recognize Men's day.

Until that point, it's not their fault. As a matter of fact, UN officials have already expressed support for the idea. But until someone's representative goes and submits the papers to have a vote, that's all they can do.

It's a real shame, with the number of upvotes you've accrued here, you might have even been able to get enough people to phone their representative's office to see the proposal be submitted.

Instead you used the opportunity to run your mouth on something you don't understand, and for some inexplicable reason take issue with the fact that they acknowledged who you know perfectly well is getting raped a hell of a lot more as a result of inadequate facilities in the developing world.

[–]TheShaMAN465 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[+]alexk245 points 9 years ago* [recovered] (58 children) | Copy Link

Holy shit, who gives a shit.

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80% of suicides are men.
Extremely poor treatment of Veterans (that are mostly men)
in the justice system -women are 50% less likely to be convicted of a crime as a man -Men are given 60% longer sentences than women for the same crimes -(Note: This gender disparity in sentencing is 3 times worse than the disparity between black people and white people)
All studies and statistics show men make up roughly half of all domestic violence victims, and when it comes to unreciprocated DV Men are the victims 70% of the time. Yet feminists have fought to turn Domestic Violence into a gender issue that affects women (instead of a human rights issue) and pushed things like the Duluth Model (which is still active in over 30 states) which state that it's impossible for men to be victims and they are always to be assumed the aggressor . The support for male domestic violence victims is extremely poor.
Male Genital Mutilation (circumcision)
Over 95% of all workplace deaths are men
Over 98% of all combat deaths are men
Male unemployment
Lack of support and resources for Male rape/sexual assault victims
Boys and young men falling behind in our education system
Extreme systemic discrimination against men in our divorce/family courts
Men aren't given the right to vote unless they register for the draft, making them eligible to be forced to march to their death and fight wars to protect the rights of all Americans

I could keep going but I doubt you are very concerned since you think the Men's Rights Movement is just a bunch of victim complex whiny babies.. Lets get back to the more important injustices our society faces like manspreading, mansplaining, sexist Air Conditioning, and figuring out whether or not Hermoine should be able to show off her tits in the newest Vanity Fair!

The biggest problem we face is the lack of support/awareness for Men's Issues because of assholes like you... Were not even allowed to bring awareness to any of our problems, much less do anything to address them..

[–]WalkingCloud 61 points62 points63 points 9 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

All those issues, and yet all the top posts in this sub are just anti-feminist, Facebook screenshot bullshit, or complaining because the UN made international toilet day the same day as international men's day. Scroll through the top posts of all time and tell me how any of them even begin to address your above list? So yeah, I kind of do 'think the Men's Rights Movement is just a bunch of victim complex whiny babies', even more so now I've read your top posts.

Also the fact that you think "manspreading, mansplaining, sexist Air Conditioning" are actual issues that anyone cares about is telling. You'll hear more about them on places like this to get you riled up than anywhere else.

You say you're not allowed to bring awareness to any of your problems.. when have you tried? It's like all the people on twitter who assume there can't possibly be an international men's day, and yet there is.

[–][deleted] 67 points68 points69 points 9 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

You say you're not allowed to bring awareness to any of your problems.. when have you tried?

Right now for one..

International Men's Day was created to help bring awareness for men's issues... And this very post is trying to highlight the way Men's issues are treated in this society and the lack of support/recognition that we receive.

And then this thread has tons of comments like yours that mock us, tell us to "man up" and claim we just have a victim complex..

Do you not see the irony?

As far as the top rated posts go.. those just happen to be the most upvoted posts. I don't think it's fair to claim those posts represent our entire subreddit culture. (If you look at the top posts of r/feminism you can find a lot of pointless shit there as well).

You don't come here every day like me. You don't see all the support we give each other as we personally express the struggles we face. You don't see the constant examples of systemic discrimination against men that are posted here, making us feel even more disposable. You don't see all the small/local event planning and awareness we help bring.

There's a reason so many men here are angry and bitter. Many of these men have had their lives ruined because of the extremely biased divorce courts. Or they've lost or been denied custody of their kids because "mothers are assumed to be better caretakers". A lot of older guys have been involved with the MRM for over a decade and they've become jaded after seeing the constant pushback from feminists and society simply for trying to raise awareness for Men's issues.

If you want to understand this movement then I suggest you spend a little more than 5 minutes here. You come here from r/all and immediately start making judgments that we just have a victim complex without knowing a god damn thing about us. Try having as much empathy for us as you do towards women and children, and the problems they face. We are human beings as well you know, and we are just as deserving of support and compassion.

[–]captmarx 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]WalkingCloud -19 points-18 points-17 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

There's nothing wrong with trying to gain recognition for International Men's Day. Is there a process to gain UN recognition? Is there a petition? Is there some organisation you could donate to or get behind? I don't know, but any of those might be more useful at 'highlighting the way men's issues are treated in this society' than what this actual post is.

And the victim complex is less about the post itself and more because of highly upvoted posts like:

So, everyday regular men are such shit, as far as the U.N. is concerned, that they indirectly compare us to feces. While simultaneously trying to erase or obscure the one day that celebrates us; or just arrogantly not noticing that they are.

Or

I'd venture that the feminists who control all gender concerns in the U.N. deliberately chose this day to efface and insult men.

Can you imagine the circlejerk here if an "SJW" wrote something like that?

[–][deleted] 30 points31 points32 points 9 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

So, everyday regular men are such shit, as far as the U.N. is concerned, that they indirectly compare us to feces. While simultaneously trying to erase or obscure the one day that celebrates us; or just arrogantly not noticing that they are.

Yeah, we honestly feel like Men are treated like shit in many areas (divorce/family court, justice system, etc etc). Any time we try to bring up these issues outside this sub we are either mocked and laughed at, told that men don't have any problems, or were told to man the fuck up.

Of course were fucking angry and it shows in every comment we post. We're constantly told we need to open up and express ourselves and our problems more but when we do we are shamed for it like you did. We are constantly having our struggles and experiences invalidated and dismissed simply because of our gender. Because I was born with a dick, that means I have so much power over half the population and it's impossible for me to have any real problems that need help.

I'd venture that the feminists who control all gender concerns in the U.N. deliberately chose this day to efface and insult men.

Do you have any idea how Men's Rights are treated by feminists?

Every time MRA's try to hold an event or conference they are protested, and threatened, censored and many times shut down. They are met with chants of "racist, sexist, anti gay- go away MRA". Even academics such as English professor at University of Ottawa, Janice Fiamengo, was trying to give a lecture about men's issues and feminists pull the fire alarm and shut the whole thing down.

They can't even bring awareness to Men's issues, much less start to address them. How can MRA's fight to fix these problems when they're not even allowed to make people aware of them!?

Another example is one I already mentioned, the way feminists have fought to keep a monopoly on the domestic violence issue. You should research Erin Pizzey . She's a women that created the very first women's shelter. After she had spent so much time with DV victims (men and women because she didn't discriminate) she learned that men were victims just as often as women, and that the abuse often went both ways. When she tried to release her findings feminists fought to censor her. They threatened her, harassed her and ran her out of the country. She went on to co-found [A Voice for Men](www.avoiceformen.com) and became a strong supporter of Men's Rights issues.

This kind of behavior and pushback is the reason that there are thousands of DV shelters for women today, but only one men's shelter. And out of all the female domestic violence shelters, less than 5% are willing to take in men.

Also the Duluth Model that was created by feminists which states that DV is caused by the patriarchy giving all men power over all women. They claim that because women are the oppressed gender, it's impossible for them to be the aggressor. These ideas were made into laws that have discriminated against male victims for decades and these practices are still in use in many states today.

There is a lot that feminists have done that have harmed men and stifled the Men's Rights Movement but you never hear about it in the media or anywhere else because if you even dare accuse them of something negative, there's hell to pay.

EDIT: if you truly want to understand the Men's Rights Movement then I encourage you to watch a new documentary, "The Red Pill" by feminist filmmaker Cassie Jaye. (No, it has nothing to do with TRP subreddit, I promise. Yes, it is a poor choice of a title).

That movie is a great starting point and it gives a fair and balanced overview of the Men's Rights movement. It currently has a 9.2 rating on IMDB and has won a few different awards.

Oh yeah.. feminists have cancelled screenings and tried to shut down events for this film as well.

[–]HelperBot_ 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[+]Ribbitkingz2345 points 9 years ago [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

Lol. "White men have oppressed everyone since the beginning of human history, but now things aren't completely about meeeeee!"--Every MRA.

Actually do research. Most of these issues aren't even real or the stats are completely made up. Women are actually oppressed. Youndon't need to spend your time LARPing like you are too.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points12 points 9 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

I could provide the sources for the statistics if you'd like.. but it seems like you've already got your mind made up anyways.. or you can point out whichever statistics you think are "made up" and provide your own sources to contradict it.

Most of these issues aren't even real

Which of the issues I listed aren't real? Male suicide epidemic, poor treatment of veterans, all the statistics about male domestic violence, the HUGE sentencing disparity between men and women (black people recieve 20% higher sentences on average and that's a huge deal that needs to be addressed and I'm happy that it does receive a lot of attention.. but the disparity between one half the population 'women' and the other half 'men' is 60%, that's 3 times higher! And yet apparently everybody has just accepted that as OK)

Tell me.. which one of those issues are made up?

Lol. "White men have oppressed everyone since the beginning of human history, but now things aren't completely about meeeeee!"--Every MRA.

What the fuck does "white Men" have to do with ANY of those problems I listed?

You think there are no Mexican or black veterans sleeping on the streets because they are homeless and receive no support?

You think white men are the only ones offing themselves?

You think little white boys are the only ones that are failing out of school? This problem is actually worse among black and other minorities. These are problems that MRA's are concerned for and bring attention towards for ALL men! Show me one example where men's rights only applies for white men.

Getting abused by your gf, calling the police for help and then end up being the one going to jail because you are a man... you think that shit doesn't happen in black neighborhoods?

Why don't you do some actual research. You can make ad hominem attacks but yet you can't provide one thing to disprove any of the issues I listed.

[–]morerokk 8 points9 points10 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[+]mgtowCHITTY points 9 years ago* [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

We do care about men. That's why we are anti feminist because feminism is hurting men in a lot of different ways. Did you even bother clicking on any of those links I provided? Probably not..

[+]drumsandpolitics -6 points-5 points-4 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]morerokk 19 points20 points21 points 9 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]mwobuddy 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh you sweet fool.

When women complain nobf.jpg, they have a real problem.

When men complain nogf.jpg, they're entitled shitlords.

When women complain about their depression, everyone wants to help them and care for them.

When men complain, they're manbabies and need to sack up, and their friends think they're pathetic, and women's vaginas dry up for miles at the sight of him.

When women complain about aches and pains, they should definitely see a doctor to make sure it isn't serious.

When men complain about aches and pains, they better get back to work and stop being a little bitch.

When women complain about unfair wages and bad working conditions, the world stops and listens.

When men complain about unfair wages and bad working conditions, companies fire them and hire some other man willing to sacrifice more.

When men get fired for discrimination, its a difference of expectations and unfulfilled contracts by the employee.

When women get fired for discrimination, its a lawsuit that pays out.

When men get accused of rape or child molesting, people want to genitally mutilate and then kill him.

When women get accused of rape or child molesting, people laugh it off until she's proven guilty. Then they still laugh.

Remember, the world is anti-woman, and men are privileged shitlords.

I can forgive you this one time for making the mistake of thinking you're entitled to have an opinion.

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How do you know what they do? There are a lot of them that do just this. You just don't hear about them because the news doesn't report any of it fairly. How many news articles have you read about men's rights advocates that doesn't outright call, or imply, that they are rape apologizing, moms basement dwelling, women haters? There ARE men's groups that assist, educate, and provide counselling services to men and boys, but they operate with almost no budgets, and are often the targets of misinformation campaigns. And, when a proposed new shelter or place for men and boys is brought up, feminists come out in droves to attack it as anti-women and have it shut down. How is something supposed to be able to operate as nicely and purely AND publicly as you wish, but yet gets bombarded with contempt at every turn simply because those they seek to help are of a certain gender?

And, again, when this hypocrisy and double standards are brought to attention, it's considered "whining".

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

You're right, and I didn't mean to imply that men's welfare groups don't provide valuable services. And I definitely agree that often when men's welfare groups try to engage in productive activism and provide services they are often unfairly villainized by the media and by certain women's groups.

However, if you google "Mens Rights" the first result is the wikipedia article for mens rights activism, and the second result is this sub.

As a result, a lot of peoples perception of mens rights activism comes from this community. As a long time lurker, I can tell you that this sub has shaped my perception of mens rights activism much more than articles in the news.

I think that this community should keep this in mind when it considers how it conducts itself and what content it upvotes, and how it engages in discussion.

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You've got some spelling errors that make it hard to understand you. But yeah, imagine that. Men's Day isn't all happy because men in the West actually have some issues, like suicide. That doesn't mean the day can't also focus on the good things about men. And I don't see women volunteering to share their day with ozone depletion day. Just separate the two days.

Btw, I just found out that the UN doesn't recognize men's day in any official capacity. Women's day was adopted in the 70's by the UN, but it started in the USSR all the way back in 1909 or the 10s. Men's Day wasn't a thing until 92, and it's been largely ignored. But I'm really glad women can make "put women to work" their theme for the year. Meanwhile men's theme was "stop suicide" last year. That really shows the difference, doesn't it? But yeah, no real reason anyone should give a DAMN about it.

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[–][deleted] 13 points14 points15 points 9 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

80% of suicides are men.
in the justice system -women are 50% less likely to be convicted of a crime as a man -Men are given 60% longer sentences than women for the same crimes -(Note: This gender disparity in sentencing is 3 times worse than the disparity between black people and white people)
All studies and statistics show men make up roughly half of all domestic violence victims, and when it comes to unreciprocated DV Men are the victims 70% of the time. Yet feminists pushed things like the Duluth Model (which is still active in over 30 states) which state that it's impossible for men to be victims and they are always to be assumed the aggressor . The support for male domestic violence victims is extremely poor.
Male Genital Mutilation (circumcision)
Over 95% of all workplace deaths are men
Over 98% of all combat deaths are men
Male unemployment
Lack of support and resources for Male rape/sexual assault victims
Boys and young men falling behind in our education system
Extreme systemic discrimination against men in our divorce/family courts
Men aren't given the right to vote unless they register for the draft, making them eligible to be forced to march to their death and fight wars to protect the rights of all Americans

I could keep going but I doubt you are very concerned since you think all these problems are because of our own fuckups.. I don't understand how you can even make that claim. I'm 28 years old... I was born into a society that treats women as equals, and offers them the same rights and opportunities as I've always had. What actions of mine have caused/contributed to these issues men face? Why am I treated as disposable and vilified because of the actions of Men throughout all of human history?

The biggest problem we face is the lack of support/awareness for Men's Issues because of assholes like you... Were not even allowed to bring awareness to any of our problems, much less do anything to address them..

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[+]AKernelPanic points 9 years ago [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

Women have a lot of disadvantages and are doing something about it, I'd like to see the people in this subreddit do something about the issues they always bring up.

It isn't women who force men to war.

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Then let me respond as another observer that from how you framed your sentence you made that very implication. I don't know how to do fancy quotes but

"they might just hate men. Because we need days of praise, right?"

This statement here to me shows a clear disregard for the sentiment that I believe is supposed to be behind the holiday. One of recognition not of just men being men, but of their issues they face still in the current evolving world we live in. While admittedly some of these issues are not as threatening as issues that women generally face (from my understanding anyway.) It doesn't make these issues any less relevant, or worth ignoring.

So by the UN making this statement they are succinctly both in essence telling men that they do not consider their issues worth mentioning, and that as far as their priorities are concerned Sanity needs should be seen above men's issues.

Getting more personally involved in it I might even make the presumption that it was even more backhanded by stating in their clarification for the day being one of greater concern for women in this area. I want to state very clearly here and now that I am in no way, shape, or form against making women feel safe, and protected no matter what they choose to do (within reason) but I would state TODAY (National Women's Day) be the day to consider these issues they face, and what we might do as a species to fix these issues. The same as how on Internal Men's Day we do the same for the other side of this spectrum. Instead of being ignored and forced to tow the line as men so often are told to do.

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[+]spez_is_a_cannibal points 9 years ago [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link

Okay stfu now

[–]Drag0nV3n0m231 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[+]spez_is_a_cannibal points 9 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

Nah you're just bad at trolling

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[+]LucifersHammerr points 9 years ago [recovered] (12 children) | Copy Link

You got owned. Man up, and shut the fuck up, twerp.

[–]Drag0nV3n0m231 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[+]LucifersHammerr points 9 years ago [recovered] (10 children) | Copy Link

kid, you got owned. Lick your wounds etc and go home. Perhaps you can do better next time, and even get an ice cream.

[–]Drag0nV3n0m231 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[+]LucifersHammerr points 9 years ago [recovered] (7 children) | Copy Link

Who are you? did you lil' friend ask you to front? You stupid little bitch.

What are you saying? You make no sense moron.

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[+]GuyBelowMeDoesntLift points 9 years ago* [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link

Yep youre right society is all controlled by a feminist conspiracy

Maybe the guy who admitted to sexual assault on camera and still got elected president has something to say about this

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[–]Anti-Marxist- 11 points12 points13 points 9 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

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But is this really a problem that is that important? We got climate change going on, severe risks to wildlife at our doing, people dying for literally what they like to fuck. Animal poachers, child traffickers, sex traffickers, droughts, famine. Rape, murder, child molestation. All these things, although extreme, might probably need more attention than "men having a holiday because they're men".

Sure we can work on more than one problem at a time, but there are SO MANY more significant problems. Fuck a holiday, make sure no one is raped again.

And shit, I'd be proud to be represented on the same day as defecation sanitation. How much do we love that time on the porcelain throne? That peace and quiet, the escape from the world followed by the escape of fecal matter from our bowels.

We got bigger problems man. We're men, we got shit to do, way more important than 1 day out of 365.

[–]Anti-Marxist- 11 points12 points13 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

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[–][deleted] 12 points13 points14 points 9 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm glad I could help bring your attention towards these issues but unfortunately, your attitude that "there's more important things to deal with" is all too common and one of the biggest obstacles we face.

How come our society has time to address all kinds of inequalities and injustices that other groups face, but when it comes to those that affect men, they are forced on the back burner? Why is it that all those other activists and campaigns receive tons of support and recognition yet when it comes to men's issues, we are told to "man the fuck up and deal with it, because there's more important shit to deal with"?

I've had this conversation many times with feminist friends when they try to claim that feminism helps men too. I list off all those issues and ask them if they've ever heard feminists or even society at large try to address and fix those issues. And that's when they ALWAYS respond with something like "ok, I get it. Men have problems too but women have it worse and their problems are more important".

Also, it's not about "having this one day". The entire point of this post was meant to highlight the differences in how Men's issues and women's issues are treated by society. That was the whole fucking point of this post.

And then tons of people come here and mock us, shame us, and tell us to man the fuck up because our problems aren't that important.

Do you not see the irony?

EDIT 2: The sad part is.. We've come to expect this. Every single time one of our posts makes it to r/all, tons of people come here and shit all over us. And then those same people that criticize and mock us turn around and wonder why we all seem so angry and bitter. It doesn't don on them the kind of effect it has when your problems and experiences are constantly dismissed and invalidated simply because of our gender.

As a man that has personally dealt with a few of those issues I listed.. and after I found out about the MRM and starting researching all the inequalities men face in many areas.... It's really hard not to feel like I am disposable in the eyes of society. Im depressed and I've grown bitter and apathetic.

Why should I care about society when it's all too clear that society doesn't give a fuck about me?

EDIT: if you truly want to understand the Men's Rights Movement then I encourage you to watch a documentary, "The Red Pill" by feminist filmmaker Cassie Jaye. (No, it has nothing to do with TRP subreddit, I promise. Yes, it is a poor choice of a title).

That movie is a great starting point and it gives a fair and balanced overview of the Men's Rights movement. It currently has a 9.2 rating on IMDB and has won a few different awards.

[–]Anti-Marxist- 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[+]DancePartyTaco points 9 years ago [recovered] (8 children) | Copy Link

The people in this sub have made victimization part of their identity.

It's sad.

[–]getmeoutofcleveland 15 points16 points17 points 9 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

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[–]haxdal 10 points11 points12 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

hm, but the UN didn't start World Toilet Day. It was started by private citizens in Singapore in 2001 and then it just became larger and grew into what we know it today. I doubt the Chinese even knew about International Men's Day in 2001 since in fact, it was only held in 3 countries at that time; Trinidad and Tobago and Jamaica.

International Men's Day began in 1992, and was first held on the 7th of February, the first time it was held on the 19th of November was by Trinidad and Tobago in 1999. The 19th of November as the official day didn't really gain any traction until 2007/2008.

There's nothing unusual about recognizing 2 or more "international X something" days on the same date (21st of March is a good example), we just need to raise awareness and get the politicians in our countries to push for the UN's General Assembly to recognize IMD as well.

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[–]ColombianHugLord 15 points16 points17 points 9 years ago* (13 children) | Copy Link

I'm going to put it this way and I just hope this will resonate.

Do you feel that, worldwide, as a whole, the lives of men and women are equal? Do you think that nobody in the world is discriminated against for their gender or do you think that for every woman in the world oppressed men for being a woman that there is a man oppressed by women for being a man? Do you think that there are systems set up by women to keep men out of positions of power? Are there any countries in the world dominated by women who keep men down?

If you believe that premise, then you can just ignore me because you won't agree with this. If you do believe that, in many countries, there is oppression against women with no equivalent country where men are equally oppressed by women, then wouldn't it seem insensitive to have an international men's day? Think of women in Saudi Arabia who aren't allowed to drive, in Afghanistan where they have to cover themselves from head-to-toe, baby girls in China who were killed because parents were only allowed to keep one child and wanted a boy, India where young girls (mostly girls if not all) are trafficked as sex slaves, Somalia where 95% of girls undergo genital mutilation, think of women who are forced to marry their rapists. How would it seem to have a day celebrating men to tell women who live in countries where men are their oppressors, where men control their lives and run their world that they should remember to appreciate men?

I'm not saying there's anything actually wrong with having an International Men's Day. It has some good goals, but you can understand why internationally people would be hesitant to promote it. International groups tend to focus on causes aimed towards oppressed groups and poverty issues.

[–]morerokk 23 points24 points25 points 9 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

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You act as if having a day to celebrate women for existing is somehow going to have those women in other countries who are legitimately oppressed somehow come out to the limelight and give themselves a hug. They're not. It's the international equivalent of giving a kid who didn't do anything a participation trophy even if all he did was show up.

You're essentially implying that men are never oppressed, or that oppression is only legitimate if it's the opposite gender that's oppressing you. It's not who's oppressing you, it's the fact that you're being treated like shit in general by people who claim to represent and speak for you even if they don't. That's the issue. The fact alone that you think men aren't treated like garbage by either of the two genders just for having a penis is telling.

Some nice speech isn't going to stop people from calling out stupid double standards when they see it. All the women in the West don't need a women's day, that's essentially every day for them, especially considering there are legitimately sexist female and male politicians in office. We empower and encourage them every day.

[–]ColombianHugLord 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

You're kind of creating a false equivalency. Of course men do bad things to men, but that's also because it's mostly men who run the vast majority of governments and powerful organizations in the world. Most crimes against women are committed by men, most crimes against men are committed by men. Men face problems women will never face. Where militias force young girls into sex slavery they are forcing young boys to be soldiers. Boys are trafficked as sex slaves in the third world too. So does having a men's day celebrate only men who are victimized or is it about men in general? Is it supposed to recognize that men are largely discriminated against for their gender?

But can you name any countries in the world where women control the majority of the government and where those women have set up systematic oppression of women?

And yes, an International Women's Day isn't actually very useful, but so is basically any day. Does Holocaust Remembrance Day undo the Holocaust, fix the damage done by it, or even prevent it from happening in the future? Does International Toilet Day mean there will be more toilets in the world? These are mostly symbolic, though there is hope that there will be donations to organizations that support these causes where they're needed.

[–]CWBECK[S] 16 points17 points18 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

So does having a men's day celebrate only men who are victimized or is it about men in general?

We won't find out unless we actually have a men's day. You're caught up on this idea that the days are centered around who's oppressing who, not just them existing and being part of the landscape. What is the white girl with parents who make 500k a year going to do with IWD? Nothing, it's just an ego stroke at that point, which is essentially what a good amount of women online seem to treat it as. Why don't we have an International Male Hatred day if all of the world's problems are caused by asshole men? Because we're focusing on the people being disadvantaged, not who's disadvantaging them.

No one looks at IWD and thinks "Wow, I never knew that women were treated badly in other parts of the globe". It's common knowledge. The point of the holiday isn't to spread awareness, it's to empower people who are already being empowered.

[–]ColombianHugLord 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

What is the white girl with parents who make 500k a year going to do with IWD?

The hope is that it will make her think about a fact that she takes for granted about women who are still fighting for equality developing countries and that she'll maybe work towards their causes when she grows up or that she will (either personally or by asking her parents to) make donations to charities trying to educate girls in countries where education isn't provided for them, or to groups that fund shelters for women who are victims of domestic abuse, or that she'll pay attention to politicians who talk about international women's issues.

You could have the same hope for men with an international men's day but I think you would be better served bringing attention to the specific issues instead of men in general. Raise prostate/testicular cancer awareness, raise awareness about suicide which disproportionately affects men. There are awareness campaigns for breast cancer and such, but there are so many issues that women specifically face in other countries that a general day is a little more helpful.

Again, these days are largely symbolic, but they exist for just about every issue and there is a lot of potential good to be done by a women's day, and a men's day is not going to bring the attention to men's issues as much as create controversy because men (not entirely but to a muuuuch greater degree than women) rule the world.

[–]CWBECK[S] 19 points20 points21 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

and a men's day is not going to bring the attention to men's issues as much as create controversy because men (not entirely but to a muuuuch greater degree than women) rule the world.

People really need to get off this shit with men ruling the world. Donald Trump or whoever rules over Saudi Arabia doesn't represent all men, they don't have the same power nor do they have the same sort of societal advantages.

What does it even mean to rule the world? Not all men are in the same social and economic class, dude. This isn't a comic book, the issues surrounding who's in control of who is much more complex then "uhh well patriarchy, yeah".

You're saying that making a day about men would include all the bad men, but the same couldn't be said for a day about women? That's asinine. That's entirely my point.

IWD isn't here to spread awareness of different issues, it's not an awareness holiday. If it was it would be called ANYTHING else aside from what it's called now. You're trying to shoehorn in a message about the day that's really not even there.

If you wanted to make a day dedicated to bringing awareness to babies being left in humid cars, you wouldn't call it International Baby Day. Your logic doesn't even make sense considering how we also take race into the matter of awareness as well, even though a good amount of those men who oppress women are of races who aren't white or who have African descent, yet we still have holidays about those people. Doesn't that seem odd to you?

[–]ColombianHugLord 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm just going to say that I feel like I know where you're coming from, not necessarily in your arguments but your reason for them. When I was growing up I used to hate things that were about girls because I'd think "what about me?" I remember the Spice Girls and I hated their whole "Girl Power" thing, and I hated when TLC came out with "No Scrubs" because I thought it was picking on guys. I didn't like hearing about Princess Diana because I felt like it was just because she was a woman and she didn't have any global significance. As a white, straight, middle class boy I felt like when people would talk about any minority group or women that it was dumb because they never talk about me. When I would hear about issues they had in society I was incredulous because I had never seen people being treated differently for their race or gender or whatever.

As I got older my thinking started to shift because I would hear girls and minorities who I knew and trusted telling stories about things happening to them that I didn't understand. At first I would kind of discount them and say that it was just their perceptions of things and that they had this, almost desire, to be oppressed so they could be special. I mean, I wanted to be special, I wanted to say I was oppressed too. I projected them acting oppressed because they wanted to. But over time there were enough people who I trusted telling these stories and I started to see the interactions myself.

Now I'm more worried about other people than myself. I don't say "what about guys" because I can think of maybe a couple of trivial interactions in my life where I was treated differently for my race/gender/sexual identity, but my experiences pale in comparison to pretty much every woman or homosexual or person of color that I know. I look at the situation and I say that I'm not the one that needs help, they are.

Now I know that my own experiences are anecdotal and that a white boy growing up in inner-city Atlanta is going to face discrimination I've never experienced. I also know that there are issues for men that I haven't experienced but that I could like unequal treatment in family courts. And I think that there are men's issues that don't get enough attention like prostate cancer doesn't get nearly the kind of attention breast cancer does, and suicide is a disproportionately male problem despite men and women having similar rates of depression. And when I see a gay friend on Facebook say "fucking straight people" I get annoyed by the generalization and I'm annoyed that voicing that annoyance is met with people saying to not make it about me. They distract from the issue when they generalize about men because people don't like having broad, sweeping statements made about them.

Ultimately, I don't have a desire to make things about myself or the more privileged groups that I am a part of because I recognize that to do the most good for the most people then we should focus more on the people who suffer more and for whom it's easier to categorize their problems. Also, if men's issues were really ever a priority for the government, then they would be taken care of. The US Congress is 80% white and 80% male, white men make up 70% of federal court judges, in just about every level of government from the bottom up in the US white men dominate. I don't feel a need to stand up for white men because we have plenty of advocates in power. Women and minorities don't have as many advocates and there are countries where things are a whole Hell of a lot worse for them than they are here. I feel a need to stand up for them and I feel like talking about "men's rights" as opposed to talking about specific men's issues is a distraction based on a very basic instinct to advocate for yourself.

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I think international women's day is a sham.

But here me out, I thinks its a sham in the western world; From what I've seen it's been women celebrating being women, while I think that it's a great idea to celebrate women's day, the name is all wrong. Mostly the west has treated it like mother's day and father's day, and I believe it shouldn't be; I would love for there to be a national women's day, and a national men's day, where on each day it celebrates women and men respectively and can have a day about themselves; Yet celebrating being a women, in your own country on a day that focuses on women from over the world, many which have it much worse, seems to be against aim for the day, set out by the UN; Surely we should focus on the women that have it worse when international is in the name.

We don't need an international men's day, because men have it better in the poorer parts of the world; But the way the west is celebrating it seems wrong; and another day for individual national women's day; national men's day; and then international women's day to focus on the women that have it worse, seems more apt.

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Your mom should have swallowed.

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And let's face it there are very few if any world problems that solely affect men.

80% of suicides are men.
in the justice system -women are 50% less likely to be convicted of a crime as a man -Men are given 60% longer sentences than women for the same crimes -(Note: This gender disparity in sentencing is 3 times worse than the disparity between black people and white people)
All studies and statistics show men make up roughly half of all domestic violence victims, and when it comes to unreciprocated DV Men are the victims 70% of the time. Yet feminists pushed things like the Duluth model (which is still active in over 30 states) which state that it's impossible for men to be victims and they are always to be assumed the aggressor . The support for male domestic violence victims is extremely poor.
Male Genital Mutilation (circumcision)
Over 95% of all workplace deaths are men
Over 98% of all combat deaths are men
Male unemployment
Lack of support and resources for Male rape/sexual assault victims
Boys and young men falling behind in our education system
Extreme systemic discrimination against men in our divorce/family courts
Men aren't given the right to vote unless they register for the draft, making them eligible to be forced to march to their death and fight wars to protect the rights of all Americans

I literally copypasted this comment from higher up. Do your research.

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[+]dmikalova points 9 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

Gay people get parades, why don't we!!!

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[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]dacripplershit -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]SupremeAuthority -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Puellanonamat -3 points-2 points-1 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]souplover69 -5 points-4 points-3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -5 points-4 points-3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]letmeruinthisforyou -9 points-8 points-7 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]smellslikecat 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]lasssilver[🍰] -2 points-1 points0 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]SierraDeltaNovember -3 points-2 points-1 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Silvystreak -3 points-2 points-1 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]EnergyPanther -3 points-2 points-1 points 9 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]Lana_del_Raygun -8 points-7 points-6 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]moneybags33 -5 points-4 points-3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]BellerophonM -4 points-3 points-2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]morerokk 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]timbuck2222 points 9 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

Why are MRA's so fucking salty?

Title	Thanks, UN.
Author	CWBECK
Upvotes	4923
Comments	460
Date	March 8, 2017 1:58 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/5y811n/thanks_un/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/thanks-un.929891 https://theredarchive.com/post/929891

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