Celibacy is not commendable or respected anymore, this is a problem.

AltACCboyos · 2022-05-09T22:59:14+00:00

Monks and priests were revered because they were religious leaders who were viewed as conduits between people and the gods, not because they were celibate. Regular men who happened to be celibate were never commended.

bluestjuice · 2022-05-09T21:07:26+00:00

I think it’s relevant to point out that the very etymology of the word ‘incel’ is ‘involuntarily celibate,’ drawing a pointed distinction between them and other, presumably voluntary celibates such as monks or religious people waiting for marriage. That implies that the distinction is important and presumably impacts the way each group is treated.

Bikerbats · 2022-05-09T21:45:59+00:00

Read more history. The priesthood in Europe was nothing more than a convenient way to get rid of second and third sons so that primogeniture could continue unchallenged. Important priests, had standing in society because they were the sons of nobles, not because they were priests. To make matters even worse, celibacy was a reaction to disputes over land between the sons of priests and the church. The church didn't like losing land to the sons of priests, so voila, it became holy to be celibate overnight and priests could no longer marry or claim children.

AltACCboyos · 2022-05-10T03:16:22+00:00

I don’t think being a virgin is insult worthy, and it’s better that people save themselves. However the celibates you mentioned like priests and monks were respected because they were religious leaders, not because they didn’t have sex.

AltACCboyos · 2022-05-10T13:19:07+00:00

Western culture has essentially turned sex into another commodity. There is nothing special about it.

jayval90 · 2022-05-10T02:35:55+00:00

I usually tell people off if they make fun of me for being a virgin. It's really really easy to belittle someone who gets personal validation out of having FOMO sex with someone. It's really quite pathetic if you think about it.

OscarSmiled · 2022-05-09T21:42:13+00:00

Celibate monks and hermits weren't complaining about not getting laid.

mf9769 · 2022-05-09T21:03:36+00:00

Ah, but you're forgetting that catholic priests are celibate and respected. The ones that aren't are the ones not respected because of the whole, you know, pederasty thing. So there goes your whole theory.

Whether you're a virgin or not doesn't really effect whether people respect you or not. The problem is circular logic. There is a certain group of people who care about the fact that they can't get laid. They think that because they care about it, everyone else does, not understanding that in the real world, that's not the case. They're desperate because they think everyone else thinks like them.

LittleDragonMaiden · 2022-05-10T02:18:29+00:00

Maybe it’s because I’m a woman but I’ve mostly gotten positive comments about my decision to wait until marriage.

tossa445 · 2022-05-09T22:39:40+00:00

To me it isn't about celebacy but about virtue. Reading "The novel of Impertinent Curiosity" story-within-a-story in Don Quixote presents what I consider a really good understanding of the old-fashion ideas of virtue which are long gone and missing. Really no quotes will do it justice but here are a few anyway to get the point across:

"A virtuous woman also resembles a bright transparent mirror, which is liable to be stained and obscured by the breath of those who approach too near it. A virtuous woman, like relics, ought to be adored at a distance. She ought to be preserved and esteemed as a beautiful garden full of flowers and roses, the owner of which will suffer nobody to handle them or pass through it, permitting them only, to enjoy its gragrance and beauty afar off, through the iron rails that surround it."

"When God created our first parent in the terrestrial paradise [...] God himself pronounced 'For this[Eve] shall a man leave father and mother, and they two shall be one flesh.' Then was instituteed the divine sacrament of marraige, consisting of such ties as death alone can unbind, and endowed with such miraculous virtue and power, as to united two different persons in one flesh; nay, what is still more wonderful, to combine two souls, so as to produce but one will; provided the union be happily effected. From hence, it follows, that the flesh of the wife being the same with that of the husband, whatever stains or blemishes are imbibed by the first, must equally affect the other." (Lothario explains why husbands are shamed iinstead of supported by other men if their wife is unfaithful, even if it is not the man's fault at all.)

"Consier, that no jewel upon earth is comparable to a woman of virtue and honor; and, that the honor of the sex consists in the fair characters they maintain."

martuz_cn · 2022-05-09T21:15:09+00:00

for most of human history, the celibate monks/priests/hermits/etc. Had a very strong social standing

You mean the kid fuckers?

omega05 · 2022-05-09T21:34:52+00:00

You want a gold star because you choose not to have sex? What's wrong with some of yall?

PlayfulLawyer · 2022-05-09T22:30:47+00:00

At the end of the day we all got to do what we feel like doing and live life as close to our terms as possible, celibacy and virginity are still respected and celebrated when finding a wife and if you're a guy who's religious who also wants to wait till marriage or whatever, good for you but I don't consider it a problem that we don't celebrate guys who don't want to get their peepees wet lol

pokemin49 · 2022-05-10T07:08:29+00:00

A virtuous and chaste woman is as rare and precious as a star.

Netheral · 2022-05-09T21:09:31+00:00

I think its fucked up to use lack of sex itself as an insult, becaude a lot of disabled people are sexless and Ace people shouldn't get flack because they don't want sex

But what you're talking about isn't really a critique on virginity; it's an insult against entitled sexist men. When people call guys on this thread virgins, they're not insulting virgins. They're saying something to hurt a man they see as sexiet against women and filled with hate at society, who refuses to be a better person to attract partners

We shouldn't revere people who don't get fucked. They shouldn't be treated with a higher level of respect than anybody else. They should just be treated normally, IF they act normal. But when dudes are saying sexist shit and promoting ideas like government provided sex slaves to "help" men, that's not nornal and shouldn't be respected.

Like Even you are like "sexless men got respect back in the day", no you mean men controlled the church and the church controlled everything. Rich families would have their sons castrated to gain and keep political power. And those castrated men weren't suddenly more godly or nice, they were still abusive and corrupt as any other men with power.

YoviQ · 2022-05-09T22:32:52+00:00

the celibate monks/priests/hermits/etc

Those kinds of people didn't have strong social standing because they were celibate. They had high social status because they were religious leaders. They actually had a purpose. chose to have a purpose. What purpose does a guy desperate to get laid have other than complaining about it all day?

elidiomenezes · 2022-05-10T13:40:54+00:00

Well celibacy wasn't respected in ancient Greece (In Sparta, men over a certain age who didn't tied the knot had to run around the city naked and singing how crappy of a human being he was), nor in the islamic world.

The Roman Empire even made a law (lex pappia poppea) to screw up with single men without children (no inheritance for you, bro).

In India, single man are treated like dangerous animals. It's harder to get a job, to find a place to rent, and your family treats your marital status like a dark secret (on other hand, it's on them to find you a wife, so if you are single, it's their fault).

All in all, our society just sneers at virgins. It's like attractiveness to women is the only metric to judge a men's worth, but no legal or even social punishment is placed upon us. And even though you are a virgin, it's not like people will know it unless you tell them, so whatever.

Where I live, prostitution is legal. Most men goes to a brothel between the ages of 16 and 20 years to be sexually initiated. Usually an older men of the family brings you there (an uncle, older brother, cousin), you chose a girl, and loses your virginity with her and the dude pays for it, so you can be a man.

I gone to the brothel own my on when I came of age. I had saved money for about a few months to do that. It was awkward (I bet it always is on the first time). Later, when I got my internship I started to go to such places every month... Spent quite a sum of my salary there.

I only got a girlfriend and for "free" sex after I graduated College, but she had sex with me sparingly... about once a month after lots and lots of cajoling... She was ashamed of going into hotels so we could have some privacy. So, I had to complement with sex workers so I had all the sex life that I needed.

I got other women afterwards, and cheated on all of them (with one of them on the very first encounter), because paying for it is so much more convenient than dealing with female crap. Now I'm proudly single, and my sex life is probably better than most of my married friends.

delight-n-angers · 2022-05-09T23:00:22+00:00

To be fair, modern incels aren't exactly trying to attain enlightenment my dude. they're not being shit on because they're virgins, they're being shit on because they're assholes.

ProfessorFelix0812 · 2022-05-09T23:05:33+00:00

Um. Huh?

AltACCboyos · 2022-05-10T11:33:15+00:00

Well, absolute celibacy gave people a lot of spiritual power & brought them closer to god, literally being able to control their urges. If you are an adult man that’s healthy & have a ton of T you will know how crazy it would be to never O for an entire year. Especially when you have access to women. It’s more powerful than literally every drug in existence. And now celibacy & abstinence is demonized, hated by ppl, they will bully you in college if you aren’t ruining your life doing what the hive mind wants you to do. I see this a tiny bit with girls begging for open, which is really just polygamy relationships as well. We shall see if our civilization makes it past 21st century (America)

Delifier · 2022-05-10T12:38:03+00:00

Humans are social beings, you being with other humans in one way or form improves status in the way of "Yep, he's with those people, cant be totally bad". Furthermore, if you are known to have been anywhere with one woman, that improves your status a bit more, since someone have seen somthing in you at some point.

Mrs_Drgree · 2022-05-09T21:29:21+00:00

No one has a problem with volcels. They have a problem with incels.

Incels complain external factors (genetics, society) mean they're doomed. If you tell him to then become a priest/monk and devote his life to a higher purpose, he ragequits nonsensical rhetoric. They do not want to do anything commendable. They want to rage on the internet and shoot up schools.

Boxisteph · 2022-05-09T22:41:44+00:00

Men have weird problems. No woman cares If she or other women are virgins or not.

Why do men care so much about what other men are doing with their peens? Is it true you're always trying to look at other guys junk and compare yours to it?

SuperSaiyanAssHair · 2022-05-09T21:51:15+00:00

It is a problem... celibate people can be very creative

AltACCboyos · 2022-05-09T23:02:23+00:00

Can we not use the word celibacy? Celibacy is an choice by definition. Involuntarily celibate is an oxymoron.

AltACCboyos · 2022-05-10T00:01:46+00:00

[permanently deleted]

jawnzoo · 2022-05-09T21:48:57+00:00

backwards thinking, so much shit isn't "respected" anymore from history lol.

why are you anti progression?

AltACCboyos · 2022-05-10T13:12:49+00:00

For me, celibacy lost respect when the Catholic Church sex scandals came to light. Similar issues in guru communities. Celibacy breeds perversion, Internet or otherwise

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revente · 2022-05-10T11:55:33+00:00

the fact that the celibate caste isn't treated with any reverence

Why would anything you do or don't do with your genitals be treated with any praise?

It's your genitals and your life.

As long as you're not hurting anyone it has literally zero moral value.

Swapsta · 2022-05-10T14:10:54+00:00

Incels are different from monks and priests.

Ohmaygahh · 2022-05-10T15:23:44+00:00

Involuntary Celibacy should not be commendable. It speaks to arrested development and neuro divergent behavior.

Voluntary Celibacy should generally not be commendable either. It's a strong stance against sex for it's own enjoyment sake/religious fanaticism. People who are usually have some ... other interesting beliefs about life that I think are problematic.

kartu3 · 2022-05-10T15:40:22+00:00

The reason for it matters.

Compare:

"I don't eat meat due to health issues"

to:

"I don't eat meat, because I feel sorry for the killed animals"

InfiniteWests · 2022-05-10T15:52:15+00:00

Why should celibacy be commendable or respected?

Someone who is complaining about not being able to get laid is not practicing celibacy. Celibacy is a conscious choice to abstain from sex.

Sex is a human experience, if you want to abstain from it then you do you. Why are you expecting to be respected for this?

lilickybitch · 2022-05-10T16:10:43+00:00

Yet another example of men putting pressure on other men. What woman is going to outright insult you for being celibate? Yeah she wouldnt wanna have sex with you (if she wanted to have it in the first place) bc, yk, thats what celibacy is but i’ve only ever seen men suggest celibacy is unchangeable (cant do anything about it whether its involuntary or not) or they suggest the man is and will always be a virigin. Other men put this pressure to have sex have sex find a girl any girl (desirable ofc but even then some men won’t even do that for themselves so we’re back at low self-esteem men).

ruboyuri · 2022-05-10T16:37:43+00:00

Voluntary, deliberate celibacy is respected.

Involuntary is not, which is a problem —- unless you’re being a dick about it. Which the incels are, unfortunately, associated with

2022-05-10T21:35:47+00:00

Virgins need to learn to play the game.

A virgin man should tell any woman he meets that he has had sex but doesn't have that much experience. It eradicates the stigma, but also means she won't be horrified if the first time sex is a bit underwhelming.

Virgin women should tell prospective dates that they 'want to wait" instead of saying they're virgins. This avoids all the creepy virgin fetishists but also wards of the men who don't respect your view on intimacy.

Comprehensive_Bed314 · 2022-05-13T11:24:16+00:00

It’s still respected.

PM_ME_STRIPPERS · 2022-05-14T03:13:33+00:00

Celibacy is getting commended and more "normalized" for women, not for men. This is where the problem lies.

We cant and shouldnt just normalise celibacy for one sex and not the other. It just exacerbates things

Boxisteph · 2022-05-20T08:23:56+00:00

I re-read this and I have to say, women respect a celibate man. We see so many other men, uncontrolled, tongues hanging out as they drool over anything with a female shape, including coke bottles and we notice the reduced base animalistic tendencies in the celibate men. We give them benefit of the doubt and assume it's discipline and self control rather than low hormones.

You're complaining about men not respecting you because you don't fit into their drool culture. That's something to take up with men specifically. Why do they not respect men who dont adhere to their values.

sadbitch55 · 2022-09-30T00:52:48+00:00

I think of it depends on whether this celibacy is voluntary or not. I don't think if a person CHOOSES to be celibate because it prefers like that it will be seen as a bad thing, people are going to find it odd due to it being a concept alien to them, but that have always existed in virtue of religion and spirituality. Other thing if it's the case of someone deliberately wants to leave celibate state and fails constantly.

Title	Celibacy is not commendable or respected anymore, this is a problem.
Author	AltACCboyos
Upvotes	55
Comments	204
Date	May 9, 2022 8:56 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/um13zt/celibacy_is_not_commendable_or_respected_anymore/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/celibacy-is-not-commendable-or-respected-anymore.1209934 https://theredarchive.com/post/1209934