Did TRP win the debate?

Mr_Smoogs · 2019-10-28T13:58:43+00:00

Yes it has imo. The most popular bloop post of the month was a claim that mentally healthy women don’t receive value from casual sex. Bloops have just moved past “it doesn’t work” and moved to “it only works on damaged women.”

Which is fine, honestly. I agree with that to some degree, actually.

Texastentialism · 2019-10-28T14:03:22+00:00

Kinda yeah. I've been on this sub for four or five years now, and it was soooo much bluer before. Now it seems like the basic underlying principles of trp are mostly accepted and we're just arguing nuances.

neualgae · 2019-10-28T15:10:02+00:00

from the BP side: This sub is only fun in small doses IMO. More than that and I'm just putting myself in a bad mood for no reason. I read here from time to time and it seems like the frequent BP posters are constantly changing but the same RP posters are still posting multiple times a day?

Interestingly I came here (on an older account) ready to be sympathetic to incels and thinking TRP was just a little misguided, and TRP poking holes in my more libfem arguments just pushed me in the radfem direction 🤷

KerPop42 · 2019-10-28T14:04:57+00:00

Depends on definition. I think RPrs are just louder and more shameless, but I haven’t seen anyone be convinced one way or the other

Tbh I only really comment here when I’m procrastinating, and that’s when my life isn’t in the best place. As my life gets better I comment here less, and I wonder how common that is

diffdedbed · 2019-10-28T13:59:59+00:00

is overwhelmingly successful.

At what exactly though. I personally see RP as useful for taking women off a pedestal for men who need that, and getting your shit together, but not as a long term life strategy. In that I think its akin to playing a prevent defense, and you don't win the game that way.

flamingoinghome · 2019-10-28T15:31:21+00:00

First--ffs, this is a niche debate sub. The overwhelming majority of men in the world do not care about this shit. You people also don't really understand what feminism is (hint: it's a political ideology, not a dating guide, and bares only superficial resemblance to, like, girlpower Twitter, which you all act like is a Gloria Steinem lecture).

Second, reds keep shifting goalposts. You can say, AF/BB is hogwash, hypergamy is something you can't even properly define so it's clearly not such a thing, the average woman doesn't get NEARLY the amount of male attention you pretend, initial attraction is a poor prediction of overall attraction OR overall relationship quality, and your evopsych is garbage analysis of studies you didn't actually read. But if you admit that a stylish, in-shape guy with lots of friends will do better with women than a slovenly shut-in, reds will be like AHA, REDPILL CONFIRMED, as if humans being social animals is some carefully-guarded secret.

When you motte-and-bailey that hard, you can "win" at anything.

ZodiacBrave98 · 2019-10-28T13:59:39+00:00

The debate can't really be won. Until you can explain human sexuality in its entirety with the precision of modern physics there are always questions. Nearly every 'gotcha' and personal anecdote that credits or discredits an idea does happen.

The debate is more for illumination. You'll never be able to go 'TRP debunked!' or 'Redpill confirmed' with any real efficacy.

Sigma1979 · 2019-10-28T17:18:35+00:00

I think it has, r/dataisbeautiful had so many tinder visualization posts from both men and women that they sorta had to quarantine them to a megathread... the 80/20 concept proved to be actually understated. You'd have guys swipe right like 20,000 times, have a .01 percent match rate and no dates while average women were swimming in their pick of the liter. It was ridiculous.

SerpentCypher · 2019-10-28T14:33:34+00:00

In society? No. Mainstream western culture is extremely blue pilled and feminism is extremely widely accepted and promoted while those opposed to it are smeared endlessly and eventually shunned.

On this sub it feels like RP won, but I think it mostly just seems that way because blues would much rather circlejerk and/or belittle those they disagree with, rather than engage in actual debate. The few that do engage give up eventually because they keep inadvertently spouting RP truths while trying to argue against them. While purples accept most of RP theory from what I've seen, and I've seen more people transition from blue to purple than I have from red.

geyejoe7 · 2019-10-28T21:41:01+00:00

I don't really think it did? I mean I see a lot of red pilled dudes on here, and still, I think they're wrong about a lot of stuff.

Especially when they refer to women they have casual sex with as "plates".

It's really gross and unhealthy. I don't get how so many american men fall for this.

They do make an effort to improve themselves, but other than that, it's not the greatest mindset to have...

I think they should stop looking at women as "options" and more as normal people just like them.

Sure there are major differences between the wants and needs of men and women, but it's not really as complicated irl as people make it out to be. A healthy medium is the best mindset to be in, imo.

ThrowawayCactus6012 · 2019-10-28T14:37:24+00:00

Yes, TRP won the debate. A grand celebration is planned, along with a ticker-tape parade. There's even rumors that President Trump may award the Presidential Medal of Freedom, along with a $10,000 check for every dedicated Red Piller for their fine, upstanding, patriotic work for America.

mistresswhat · 2019-10-28T20:10:03+00:00

No, this sub is just mostly taken over by terps because reasonable people get bored of it after a while.

DXBrigade · 2019-10-28T14:03:43+00:00

Nope. It's just that BPers will never agree with RP and vice-versa.

illegallad · 2019-10-28T16:36:10+00:00

The red pill tries to codefy into science and techniques what actually happens in nature. There are several underlying preceps that red pillers are 100% correct about, but they're too rigid in their beliefs and don't realize it's a spectrum. Like any "true believer" they'll defend their points to the absolute death and I think most blue pillers and women can't be bothered to debate for hours/days on end.

ontherailstoday · 2019-10-28T17:40:02+00:00

> It seems this sub has mostly concluded that the efficacy of the red pill, while amoral or immoral is overwhelmingly successful.

No. No we haven't.

goatismycopilot · 2019-10-28T14:28:22+00:00

Here reds are bigger babies. They talk shit and claim they are just being blunt but are quick to use the language of granola crunchy beanie wearing dipshits calling other people toxic or whatever basically they like to claim they are dark/amoral/bigger/stronger/blah,blah but if a non red says they are dark or amoral or whatever it is Trumps tears to the max.

GlaceMarill · 2019-10-28T13:58:58+00:00

lol no

If RP had won and actually worked you wouldn't see incels everywhere.

Truedemocracy5 · 2019-10-28T14:57:44+00:00

I’d say it both won and failed. It succeeded in having its ideas permeate the “mainstream” of any discussion board where men congregate. Body building forums, dating forums, male forums of any kind will mention RP tenets even if worded differently

Where it failed was with the new generation. Previous generations of coddled beta losers read that, decided they didn’t want to be a beta loser anymore, put in work, and found success

The current generation of coddled beta losers read that, decided it wasn’t worth the work, and a good portion went incel or MGTOW or whatever lame branding they want.

At this point I think it’s accepted by most that TRP is Universal truth When it comes to getting women. This is a far cry from 5-10 years ago where people were far more skeptical of its claims. I think dating apps lifted a lot of the curtain back to the brutal realities of dating as an average dude for most men

Dora_Bowl · 2019-10-28T15:05:06+00:00

Which debate? I do not think so, I think what happened is they watered it down and kept moving the goalposts so it appears they “won” it anything. But I do not know what “winning” this debate would look like.

rus9384 · 2019-10-28T16:21:14+00:00

How will heterosexual relationships change in America?

Just look at existing red pilled societies and adjust the situation to your economy.

DubsPackage · 2019-10-28T19:14:53+00:00

The red pill isn't supposed to "win."

It's not a political party, it's esoteric knowledge, it's not meant for public consumption and widespread mainstream usage, when that happens then the red pill stops working because everybody knows about it and has their guard up.

The BP will always be the default public narrative because the people at the top (the powers that be) want to keep society stable, they don't want %50 of the population to become kooky sociopaths, that's why all you hear on the radio are love songs, and movies about the guy who couldn't find love finding it.

You ever wonder why billionaires keep getting married?

I mean common sense would dictate that if you're worth billions of dollars, it's kinda stupid to take a risk on losing half to some broad.

But the thing is, billionaires are billionaires because they are INVESTED IN THE SYSTEM.

If Blue Pill Disneyland didn't exist, they wouldn't be billionaires in the first place, they owe their wealth and everything else to the mainstream culture that allowed them to accumulate vast wealth. So if they have to lose half to a broad after a failed marriage, that's like paying taxes, you're paying in to the system that made you wealthy. And they're rewarded for it because they make those billions back and more, and just keep marrying the next young Czech model. Win/win.

Guys who are successful with women don't care about paying for dates, because they're getting everything they want out of life ; pussy, children, money, social status, hell having a woman on your arm at the company dinner gives you a certain social status and you're more likely to get the corner office, you're more likely to get promoted as a "stable family man" and the value of having a second person on your team (plus children to pass things on to) cannot be understated. If I own a company and groom my son to take over one of the departments, the value of that (financially and beyond) is huge, having a wife as a shareholder or board member means I have more pull.

If I'm an entrepreneur working out of my garage, and my wife has a crappy job somewhere (with health insurance) I get health insurance too for free, I can put her name on the company and be a "woman owned business" and get city contracts, you're telling me that's not worth (potentially) losing 50 or 100k in a divorce? Then you're a fool and you don't know shit about business or money.

Life is a business.

Feminism was created to monetize women.

Radical feminism is a form of mental illness, same as Incels, broken people who are no use to anybody and will never "overturn the system" or "stick it to the man." They will beat their heads into walls and live in poverty and become neckbeards/legbeards.

The Bluepill is American power.

The (real) Redpill is secretly understanding that power to your advantage.

The (fake) Redpill is saying "yeah let's overthrow the system! Let's take the women down a peg!"

Women already ARE down a peg, in fact they're down many pegs, they used to be able to just sit home with the baby, now they have to go out and hustle, they have to put out more, they have to work and suffer and bleed and fight in MMA matches, they can't just float thru life like a turd anymore, their "sanctity" has been destroyed and their dignity has been sold down the river. And the crowning achievement is that most of them think this is for their benefit, they think it was /their idea/, they think being a corporate slave is freedom.

Workaholiconew · 2019-10-29T18:31:44+00:00

Not "won", per see, it just have been able to withstand the scrutiny of opposers so far.

TRP, in my view, is just an hypothesis, made by a community of laymen (manosphere), about the behavior they saw in the Sexual market place. The blue pill tried to collect data to prove a null/alternative hypothesis and failed. Some even shown PPD some articles which they thought proved their point, but when read, shown that it proves the TRP hypothesis. Also, many of opposers have a heavy bad habit of mixing TRP with The black pill, and not reading about the definition of some concepts, which doesn't help their cause, by far.

The fact is that TRP shown to work, at least for those trying to woo biological women (Experimentation), has shown to predict the choices of individuals in the SMV and RMV fairly precisely (Prediction) and has shown to describe well things which otherwise wouldn't be possible to know by alternative hypotheses (Description).

You could say TRP evolved from a hypothesis, to a fully fledged theory. A theory which from my perspective, follow quite well my understanding of economics and politics.

Will we be seeing an RP/MRA/MGTOW mainstream reaction to feminism in 10-20 years?

Not likely, There is a reaction to the... lets say.... "woke left", as they became a nuisance to most, However, it has little to do with any of the manospheres... spheres. And probably will not affect them in the long term. A proven theory takes time to become mainstream, even more with the active effort to destroy it by the feminists. However bit by bit it is increasing, including in the academy, my colleagues are starting to be open to alternative theories (finally). However, I dont expect nothing of note for the next 30 years, as we, academics, have to follow where the data shows us, the laymen... not so much.

How will heterosexual relationships change in America?

It will probably only increase what the TRP describes as "the decline" and its behaviors. The understanding of the market also means a more competitive one, and one which deception is less needed. Thus, the current state of society will only continue its path, only less... well... obscured.

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AngelFire_3_14156 · 2019-10-28T14:19:19+00:00

I have found that hypergamy explains a lot, not only about how other relationships work (or don't work), but about why I chose to marry not only my husband but also my ex.

I find the entire concept very interesting.

sadomasochrist · 2019-10-28T16:17:14+00:00

praxeology may not be entirely accurate ( i.e. hypergamy)

What is inaccurate about the fact that women have innate biological preferences that manifest into behavior?

awakenedspirit1 · 2019-10-28T21:07:37+00:00

Blue pill is an emotional indulgence. Red pill is the truth. There was never really a "debate" to begin with. Only the horrible impact it has on men who discover the truth.

Wrathful_Buddha · 2019-10-29T15:52:26+00:00

See, you're mixing up your details.

Work out, don't focus on one person to the exclusion of the rest of the world, etc. Some Red Pill advice isn't actually Red Pill advice but rather OLD advice rebranded as "Red Pill" when "there are plenty of fish in the sea" is a saying that's older than I am and men have been working out to put on muscle to impress women for as long as you've been able to go to a place with workout equipment or buy it for your home. I have uncles that had freeweights at home when they were in high school and college in the 60s and 70s. Old advice isn't TRP advice.

Other advice, the unethical stuff like be manipulative, lie, hide your intentions, create and maintain a power dynamic?

These things are not "overwhelmingly successful" at all. It is absolutely true that being manipulative works on some people. Gaslighting works on some people. It is absolutely true that there are things you can do in relationships to attempt to be on the upside of a power dynamic.

But here's where Red Pill starts lying to itself as opposed to women. Red Pill acts as if these behaviors work on all women. That's horse shit. They don't even work on the majority of women. But what they do accomplish is to self select red pill men away from the women these things don't work on. Red Pill teaches men to be shitty, and to be prepared to move on instantly from any woman who doesn't tolerate it. This methodology causes RP men to settle on the women who tolerate gaslighting, abusive manipulation tactics, who can't see through the lies, etc.

This selection process moves red pill towards two specific kinds of women.

The kind of woman TRP "wants" who will accept power dynamics and misogyny and such as normal (fewer of these every year fyi)
The kind of women who engage in TRP tactics themselves and thus do not from their side see these things as abnormal parts of a relationship. The kind of women TRP hates most, in other words.

These two categories still make up an overall minority of women. Red Pill is primarily focused on attracting middle or higher class straight white women from America. That's most of who they talk about, and even within that narrow demographic RP is still pursuing a miniority of those women. To call RP successful is laughable, if it were you'd not all be on the internet sharing strategy about how to find success.

randomizer3000 · 2019-10-28T14:48:47+00:00

As soon as I see honest discussion about things like the light-switch effect, hypergamy, and dealing with lack of attention span, I'll consider going elsewhere. Most dating advice for guys is really useless.

crackrocksteady7 · 2019-10-28T16:11:50+00:00

Yup

Will we be seeing an RP/MRA/MGTOW mainstream reaction to feminism in 10-20 years?

Hello? You did just see that we elected "grab America by the pussy" over "its 2016 it's time for a female president" right? We just had the referendum on TRP

Title	Did TRP win the debate?
Author	Wrathful_Buddha
Upvotes	23
Comments	244
Date	October 28, 2019 1:53 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/do94o6/did_trp_win_the_debate/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/did-trp-win-the-debate.293067 https://theredarchive.com/post/293067

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