Title Change for /r/Mensrights

Blaidd_Dwrg · 2011-09-28T21:19:02+00:00

Why not "earning scorn from misandrists since March 2008?" Isn't that the most direct thing? Aside from other criticism, "anti equality activists" sounds clunky.

rantgrrl · 2011-09-28T19:36:54+00:00

A while back I proposed 'bigots'... I think it's clearer.

Scott2508 · 2011-09-28T19:33:22+00:00

ok , i stepped back and thought on this a while, after the digs last night from alana i had chosen to stop posting anyway but I as an MRA speak for men because they are the people who need voices to speak for them.

When we look at everything from the VAWA act to the mess in Sweden we see that its feminist, and in particular gender feminist ideology that is causing the issues we face, when we try to fluff that and move away from that challenge we suddenly are defining feminism as something acceptable in its current form , it cant be , when we look at schools, at harman in the uk etc we see gender/radical feminists in power this place has been an open mic to challenge it, i really think this is a bad , bad move , we are moving from a group interested in change to a group trying not to offend people and complaining about our place in life.

I am pro equality , and i was pleased to see the glbt posts coming into play as their is NOTHING wrong with the MRA movement acknowledging and respecting what has happened, but if we look at being inclusive to the point of diluting our desire to speak for men then we have already lost , we should as the MRA be looking towards being complimentary to it.

casus_belli · 2011-09-28T17:55:16+00:00

I don't like it. It sounds silly and meaningless. It's boring now.

"Earning scorn from feminists" was supposed to be controversial. It made the point that this was a place for people to be politically incorrect, that this would not be a 'safe space', that here was a group of people who saw through the gender bullshit on television, in politics, in our mainstream culture, and weren't going to fucking take it anymore. And I think that message has value. Let's not get so confident with our little subreddit that has 26,000 readers (many of which are probably dead accounts and/or feminist trolls) and start thinking that we are the mainstream, that we now have to start diluting our message in order to appeal to wider audiences. There's still plenty of people out there who know that feminism is bullshit, that there's something wrong with the way men are treated in our society, who would really like a place to go where they can meet other people who think that way. I don't want to lose that message. I don't think I'd be here today if that wasn't the message.

And it's boring. I mean, really? "Earning scorn from anti-equality activists"? What does that even mean? Who calls themselves an anti-equality activist? No one!

The entire point of 'earning scorn from feminists' was that we were taking something negative, the constant attacks by feminists on men's rights, on the very idea that we should try to discuss such monstrous nonsense, and turning it into something to be proud of. We were taking the shame and doubt that men feel when they first start to think that they are being discriminated against, that shame and doubt that our politically correct feminist culture has told us we have to feel for daring to think that our problems are comparable to women, we took all of that and turned it around. Earning scorn from feminists is something that we could be proud of. It was something we did together and it gave us strength.

Anti-equality activists? It's meaningless. It has no effect. It does nothing anymore.

tenhotuisku · 2011-09-28T22:31:49+00:00

You would be terrible in advertising.

OThomson · 2011-09-28T17:13:56+00:00

Been hoping for this for a while.

mbm7501 · 2011-09-28T19:59:17+00:00

I disagree with most of these people. Feminist's can support men's rights too. Not all feminist's are man haters. I have a very good friend who is a super liberal feminist, but she believes false rape stories are bull shit and should be punished. Two opposites can still be friends, the problem comes in not by feminists, but my women who hate men for who they are.

Against anti equality not only sounds better, but it is actually the point of the mens right "movement".

memymineown · 2011-09-28T18:51:35+00:00

Why keep it at all? Just drop the earning scorn bit. It makes us seem purely reactionary.

Scott2508 · 2011-09-28T18:14:43+00:00

Im not opposed but i think it might be too much too soon , esp with the discussions about lgbt etc having the effect it has, I am all on board the egalitarian wagon, but baby steps or we risk alienating those who are here.

KMFCM · 2011-09-28T21:54:45+00:00

yeah, no.

Not a fan.

"misandrists" is a better word, if you REALLY want to try to include the "possible" feminist "allies".

. . . .I don't honestly see why one needs to call themself a "feminist" if they do not necessarily agree with the movement in the first place.

It's not what it was then, when it was "well meaning" or whatever these people seem to think it was. That's gone. Let go. Start something new, that actually supports true equality, instead of clinging to a title that pushes many of us away.

rantgrrl · 2011-09-29T00:35:37+00:00

Saying 'earning scorn from feminists' opens /mr up to being called 'anti-equality' by those who think feminism = equality. Using bigots, sexists or misandrists gives people a lot less wiggle room in opposition to /mr.

It gives /mr the moral high ground and puts its opponents on the defensive.

However, if you aren't going to use bigot, sexist or misandrist please, for the love of god, don't use 'anti-equality activists'. It's fucking awkward.

BTW, 'bigots' has already got manboobz ire up. I say that's just about the strongest vote in its favor possible.

ExpendableOne · 2011-09-28T20:02:05+00:00

All anti-equality or pro-misandry may not come from feminism but a good majority of it, especially in it's most extreme of cases, does. Either way you look at it, feminism is a significant part of the problem and one of the biggest perpetrators of anti-male sexism throughout both culture and government(now and historically).

This should also go without saying that "feminism" does not equate to "women". There are plenty of anti-feminists who are women, so equating it as "excluding people based on gender" isn't really an accurate or realistic analogy. Discounting, belittling or diminishing opinions because of gender is definitely wrong, and it's something that many female oriented and feminist subreddits alike tend to do, but it's not the same thing as opposing arguments based on their own merits.

If self-titled feminists wish to post here, there's nothing stopping them from doing so. We shouldn't hide or alter our opinions just because it offends them; they made the choice to support feminism(and feminist extremism by extension). They can still be part of these discussions without the men here having to create a "safe space" for them or having to take a backseat role because they have a penis.

Catering to individuals who have absolutely no interest in the men's rights movement, genuine equality or a world without this institution of feminism - and who will bad mouth men and men's rights at every opportunity - is not going to serve any good to anyone here(or anywhere). If anything we should be working towards identifying, exposing and deconstructing the harm that feminism and misandry causes; not ignoring and/or legitimizing those who perpetuate it.

el_chief · 2011-09-28T21:17:25+00:00

who exactly are these anti-egalitarian activists?

redox000 · 2011-09-28T23:55:36+00:00

Why do you have to define this subreddit by people who hate it? Why not define it by what it stands for? For instance, "Supporting the rights of fathers, husbands, false rape victims, MGM victims, and other men since 2008."

ThePigman · 2011-09-29T01:10:22+00:00

What is this, a pacifier to the feminists? And what the hell is an anti-equality activist? A feminist? A Klansman? A black supremacist? A Hawaiian nativist? A homophobe? It's an absurd and inaccurate change, and a distraction from more important matters.

PharmParty · 2011-09-29T07:58:51+00:00

Why not something like "A community dedicated to raising awareness of male related issues and encouraging intelligent discussion."

I feel the "earning scorn" as too combative right off the bat. Just my two cents.

NealHansen · 2011-09-28T18:49:49+00:00

Im going to register my objection to the proposed change: "Earning scorn from anti-equality activists since March 2008"

The stated goal of "Equality" is a ruse, and if we claim it as our own goal, we're letting feminists control the language. Manuel Dexter wrote about this on avoiceformen recently, and makes a good case for rejecting any claim of equality http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/feminist-lies-feminism/the-holy-grail-of-equality/

dusty78 · 2011-09-28T17:27:18+00:00

I kinda liked calling out the feminists by name, so how bout

Earning scorn from feminists and other anti-equality activists since March 2008

EDIT: Aside from the visceral justification above, this wording challenges the thoughts of visiting marginal feminists when most of them equate equality with feminism, and leaving out feminists by name just leaves those same people to not associate the two. Also, the old wording made it sound like r/MR was just r/anti-feminist (which isn't the case either).

EvilPundit · 2011-09-28T17:48:45+00:00

I think this title will enrage feminists even more than the original one. So go for it!

AnnArchist · 2011-09-28T17:26:18+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Screenaged · 2011-09-28T17:25:20+00:00

I support this change (FWIW).

blueyb · 2011-09-28T18:59:14+00:00

I think this thread is exposing the divide we all know exists. Every movement of this type has multiple paths, multiple tactics. A MLK who wishes peaceful discourse, and a Malcolm X who uses angry rhetoric. Both have a place. Both get action. You need the scary militants to force the status quo into change, you need the peaceful bridge-builders to try and forge a meaningful future the way we see it. Someone needs to knock down the walls in front of us, someone needs to help build new bridges where gaps have formed.

The question is, which are we?

DougDante · 2011-09-29T04:16:16+00:00

that seems like a more appropriate quip for /r/equality. With this and the logo, I'm concerned that we're defocusing.

ghebert001 · 2011-09-29T04:27:01+00:00

Earning scorn from misandrists could work as mentioned by phlake14222.

Alanna · 2011-09-29T08:01:38+00:00

While you're at it, why not get rid of this bit from the sidebar?

kloo2yoo believes that there is an international, feminist, antimale conspiracy, and encourages peaceful, but direct, action against it.

Really makes you look a lot less credible.

truthjusticeca · 2011-09-29T17:00:53+00:00

Where is Kloo and why is this sub-reddit turning to shit?

DougDante · 2011-09-30T05:17:31+00:00

How about this instead:

"Fighting for the rights of men, boys, and their families since March 2008"

This mirrors the common, and mildly misandrist, phrase "women, girls, and their families"

It also gets away from the negativity.

AnnArchist · 2011-09-28T18:40:02+00:00

FFS, feminists are not our allies and never will be, scaring them off is a good thing.

Do you remember how toxic this place was a few years ago when we were flooded with with know it all feminists, regurgitating the same tired bullshit in every thread.

also, 'Earning scorn from anti-equality activists since March 2008' sounds just like the kind of ridiculously contrived drivel i'd expect from a feminist subreddit.

The /r/mr haters are not "anti-equality activists" they're feminists, So can we retain the common decency to call a spade a spade.

NiceIce · 2011-09-28T20:11:17+00:00

I think this is a big mistake. I cannot support this.

Funny, this happens just after AnnArchist is made a mod. Maybe that wasn't such a good idea.

flip69 · 2011-09-29T02:33:52+00:00

How about: "Men's Rights "Recovering White Knights and other issues with inequality"

Demonspawn · 2011-09-28T17:54:44+00:00

So, r/MR is going to redefine itself to be only an equality movement.

So does that mean that we are going to be an exact equality movement or a relative equality movement?

If we are going to be an exact equality movement and demand equal rights, equal responsibilities, and equal privilege; how are we going to deal with this truth:

"Until you can demonstrate a way of convincing society to treat men and women as equally disposable, this fantasy of equality between men and women cannot exist and is not a valid argument." --Me

In other words, how are we going to not become an anti-male equality movement?

damn_it_so_much · 2011-09-28T18:57:09+00:00

By the way, the sidebar still says "Earning scorn from feminists since 2008" at the top.

elebrin · 2011-09-28T22:12:38+00:00

If somebody is driven away by something so trivial as a tagline, then do we really want them here to start with?

I don't have a problem either way, but the new one seems to be pandering to the PC police a bit.

jmnzz · 2011-09-28T17:33:22+00:00

As long as no one fucks with my article on the side bar I don't care what happens to the other stuff over ========> there.

My 2 cents.

Whisper · 2011-09-28T21:34:11+00:00

That way we don't exclude potential feminist allies...reminded me of the women's spaces that automatically discount the opinions of men

For the nth time, "woman" and "feminist" are not synonyms.

dv417 · 2011-09-28T22:55:52+00:00

What is an "equality activists"? Does it mean a person who wants equality for everyone, as in Marxism? Is MR a leftist movement? Sorry if this seems dumb, trying to learn... Btw, don't like the new title, it's not catchy.

TheRadBaron · 2011-09-28T22:10:52+00:00

I think this is great. Not every feminist is a misandrist, and men's rights has so many more enemies than just feminism.

Keeping that out of the title is also very important for people who just enter the subreddit for the first time. They don't all read that as "we hate misandrists". A good chunk of them think that feminism is a synonym for egalitarianism. They don't see that title as a response to the misandry that makes up whatever proportion of feminism, they see it as a conscious statement that "we hate women's rights". Then they leave, never rexamining their beliefs, and go spread the word about how much we hate women.

This isn't because they are horrible people who hate men, that's just the dictionary definition they're accustomed to using and have never had a reason to question.

It's very important we reach out to these people if we ever want to accomplish anything. Circlejerking around exclusively with people who already agree with you is fun, but it doesn't accomplish much

AnnArchist · 2011-09-28T19:17:29+00:00

That way we don't exclude potential feminist allies who might not have seen the subreddit before they even get into the door.

Well I for one think you are making a HUGE mistake taking that tack.. If this reddit heads in that direction, I will have to find a new place to hang out.

I will have NOTHING to do with a feminist accomodating MRA site...nothing at all.

And I would encourage every other MRA to quit this forum too, should this come to pass.

You want to take the Mens Movement backwards 10 years.

I will most definitely fight that as hard as I can, up to and including taking on an antagonistic view of this very subreddit.

This same White Knight impulse destroyed Glenn Sacks' blog....don't think you're any better.

AnnArchist · 2011-09-28T19:09:32+00:00

I think you should make the title change "Earning scorn from Men's Rights Advocates since September 2011." Between this and the new LGBT focus of /MR's logo change, why bother keeping the subreddit in any way the same? We'll focus on knitting patterns, and expose the hypocrisy of measuring labels, and do nothing at all that could possibly earn us any scorn from anybody. We'll be nice and neat and quiet and nobody will ever have to know about anything we say or do.

Make sure to take a page from /anarchism and start censoring and banning any users who disagree with you! Hell, if you're going that way, start with me!

2011-09-28T19:17:50+00:00

Nicely done. Very positive edit.

Feminists who actually want equality aren't the problem.

el_chief · 2011-09-28T18:11:09+00:00

don't be so wishy-washy. feminists are the enemy. they tried to destroy our gender, and you're concerned about offending them?

luciansolaris · 2011-09-28T18:56:47+00:00

\ luciansolaris PUKES*

barbadosslim · 2011-09-28T19:32:26+00:00

Which anti-equality advocates? All of them?

Guy51234 · 2011-09-28T18:13:43+00:00

So what's happening? Are we no longer allowed to hate feminism?

This is capitulation, the feminists would absolutely love it if at this moment in time we went soft like all the last 5 generations men have when the going get's rough or they want some pussy.

I think it's time we stand up for ourselves and the next generation of men.

truthjusticeca · 2011-09-28T17:16:26+00:00

I would suggest a name change to LBGT rights, since male victims of domestic violence are not worthy of raising public awareness by ignatiusloyola during October's domestic violence awareness month. Heaven forbid that somebody might accuse us of being whiners.

Why not just clarify Earning scorn from gender feminist? Do you even know the difference?

thingsarebad · 2011-09-28T19:14:24+00:00

I'm so glad you changed it based on what feminists want, who think R/MR is just a place where we assume all rape accusers are lying (AKA we're all rape apologists).

http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/ktp63/which_sub_reddit_pisses_you_off_the_most_why/c2n9d0x?context=3

Pro-tip: Stop changing things without asking our opinions.

Hamakua · 2011-09-29T21:34:27+00:00

Realize that every single feminist, "good" and "bad" will think to themselves "Oh, they mean the other people, they aren't talking about me!

No on thinks they are a bad person or their views are misplaced.

On top of that the subtitle then sets the stage so that the FAQ is in context along with the wealth of content in it.

I will remove this subreddit from my front page if it starts catering to the "PC" crowd, and changing that first line will do exactly that.

If someone can't handle that little ditty, they won't be of much use to the rest of "the cause" because they will think feminism is "just misunderstood". complete Pandering bullshit.

Is this what the mods now do?

"Lets re-structure the whole thing in OUR image!"

The second it is gone I know what a bunch of spineless "yes men" the moderation team has become.

Offensive_Brute · 2011-09-28T19:04:32+00:00

Soon its gonna say "Mens Rights - We suck dick now but we didn't in March 2008"

damn_it_so_much · 2011-09-28T18:45:19+00:00

Love the change. Thank you!

NotTheHumanTornado · 2011-09-28T17:29:06+00:00

My suggestion "Bunch of butt-hurt betas being laughed at by their betters since March 2008"

edit: realized capitalizing "betas", though technically correct, went against the spirit of the title

the_real_misogynist · 2011-09-29T00:55:18+00:00

How about, 'Women are vile trash who love to be beaten.'? It's short, honest, and right to the point. Women will always go back to their abusers because they are masochistic idiots. Don't believe me? Try it out for yourself. We need to get the word out to a wider audience. If every man started beating his woman today, right now, we could put feminists back in the kitchen by 2018.

truthie · 2011-09-28T20:50:05+00:00

Earning scorn from actual men since March 2008

or

Total Faggots

Would be much more accurate.

Title	Title Change for /r/Mensrights
Author	AnnArchist
Upvotes	91
Comments	457
Date	September 28, 2011 5:08 PM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/ku92r/title_change_for_rmensrights/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/title-change-for-rmensrights.1033983 https://theredarchive.com/post/1033983

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