HR (93% women) departments select for handsome men, and plain women.

otter111a · 2013-11-13T17:25:38+00:00

Link to the actual paper:

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1705244

It is worth noting that the Forbes article puts emphasis on the implications the study has for women:

The answer surprised them: Not if you’re a woman. Pretty women faced an uphill struggle to get a chance at a job.

and never explicitly makes the point about non-handsome men having a harder time getting a callback. The article's abstract emphasizes the implications this has on male applicants.

It is also worth noting that the study was done in Israel. I'm not sure if pictures are "requested at the applicant's discretion" in the US and many parts of Europe as that would open the door to discrimination claims due to race.

YM_Industries · 2013-11-13T17:56:47+00:00

"It's Time For Companies To Fire Their Human Resource Departments"

But who's going to fire them? Well, I guess that'd be the job of the human resource depa...... shit

dungone · 2013-11-13T18:03:08+00:00

The rest of the OP pulls no punches.

I will add, though, that pretty much anyone who doesn't actually have a clue about the actual value-generating work that actually goes on at a company is universally hated. A lot of project managers, sales and marketing, accountants, and trust-fund kids who end up inheriting executive roles should all take a long hard look at what's wrong with HR to see what's wrong with themselves. They're usually the people who will insult an engineer in a meeting by saying something like, "tell it to me in English," or, "give me the bottom line," or, "just tell me when it will get done." They usually pull this crap when someone is trying to explain to them the costs, risks, and other trade-offs, involved in getting the work done, and they send a clear message to the domain experts that the company is completely rudderless at the top. This goes back to the magical thinking by HR people that "communications" is the most important aspect of getting hired. I'd flip that on it's head: it's listening (by HR and everyone else in management) that is the most important part of them being able to hire and retain quality employees. You can't communicate with someone who is basically as dumb as a rock.

starbuxed · 2013-11-13T20:06:19+00:00

For men how to get a job.

Be attractive
Dont be unattractive.

ADH-Kydex · 2013-11-13T16:01:02+00:00

Employed women will read this and immediately start to wonder...

2013-11-13T23:42:43+00:00

I was hired for an human resources internship with the California Conservation Corps in 1997. I was chosen over a more plain Jane competitor, I was attractive male. I did not know I would be the only male in the office. it was mentioned for months how attractive I was, I used to get cat calls and sometimes my ass grabbed. when I complained I was shunned and eventually driven out of the office 6 months later.

. out of 25 women in my office only one would be considered bettier than average and attractiveness.

this is how I learned women are no different from men they just want more to be a scumbag...

noprotein · 2013-11-13T15:39:46+00:00

so women are the majority of the voting populace, the majority of the educators, the vast majority of the hirers, the group that controls what the majority of money is spent on, the majority of the educated, and feminism is still jumping up and down shouting patriarchy...

dontsuckbeawesome · 2013-11-13T17:44:09+00:00

The rest of the article is pretty solid too - HR is totally fucked up.

Salient0ne · 2013-11-13T20:46:30+00:00

I guess women are sexist too, imagine that.

rapey_raperson · 2013-11-13T16:59:32+00:00

The economists hadn’t reckoned on the fact that 93 percent of the HR staffers deciding whether to call in someone for an interview were female.

Visit your HR Department some time: most of the employees there are women. A triumph for feminism to be sure, but a Pyrrhic victory, as usual. Feminism has become a destructive force and the public has woken up to this fact.

empirical_accuracy · 2013-11-13T19:54:13+00:00

Original paper: http://www.ec.bgu.ac.il/monaster/admin/papers/1006_2.pdf

It is worth noting that the effect of men's attractiveness is much larger than the effect of women's attractiveness on hiring. Previous studies have shown that the effect of height and attractiveness on men's income is stronger than on women's income:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1559-1816.1991.tb00458.x/abstract

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/00223980.1989.10543009

http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/apl/89/3/428/

Note that the correlation between attractiveness and income is overall positive for both men and women; it's just weaker for women. So being attractive as a woman is a win-lose proposition for your career; you have to send out more applications to get hired, but once hired, you're at an advantage in getting better pay.

The effect on men is much more dramatic. It's not in the popular consciousness that men are evaluated superficially on their appearance; it should be. The story has always been that women are the ones being judged on appearance and men are given a pass; the reality is that appearance is incredibly important for men.

StoicThePariah · 2013-11-13T19:24:07+00:00

HR is good for taking care of employee benefits, and that's about it. They shouldn't be involved in hiring or firing decisions.

TorontoMike · 2013-11-14T05:07:44+00:00

This was pointed out to me years ago and have observed since that it is quite true. Women usually hire woman that are less attractive then they are.

The other thing I have seen in the STEM / women in technology / affirmative action where they would be working together is that the woman will not hire someone who is more capable then her.

The third is that if the women are graduates of these tailored to women STEM schooling / government programs , that they most often have the attitude of " I have learned all I need to learn to get this job" and that is it , learning more to stay current with technology , nope. Learning something that would make you better at your job , nope. Learn something that will help you advance, not unless the company is paying for it. But they still expect to advance up to corporate ladder just for being there.

The hiring of good looking men has made me think about all the incompetent guys I have run into in jobs that were beyond them, I had just put it down to nepotism but this could also be the answer.

CoCo26 · 2013-11-13T16:07:59+00:00

[permanently deleted]

lordslag · 2013-11-14T05:53:00+00:00

What's that? Women choose based on feels instead of facts and reason? What a shock! Why I never...!

jpflathead · 2013-11-13T18:27:26+00:00

Interesting study and should make us all think twice about HR departments or any employee of any company that brags about perusing Facebook or social media.

Lots of sources for invisible discrimination there in the 2010s that were not there in prior decades.

Vtwinman · 2013-11-13T23:22:55+00:00

Handsome and plain? Now I remember why I called sociology "fluffy".

2013-11-14T10:24:27+00:00

"I'm not hiring a woman who looks better than I do."

Fucking pathetic.

pembinariver · 2013-11-13T17:26:50+00:00

HR has a say in the hiring process? That has not been my experience in any company I've worked for. I have never met someone from HR before being offered the job.

TheGuy09 · 2013-11-13T17:20:27+00:00

Maybe I should start including a photo with my resume submissions.

Arn13 · 2013-11-13T15:31:36+00:00

This is one reason the top ("alpha") men are in bed with the feminists and often defend them more fervently than other men: if you give women all the power, they will favour those top men while being dismissive of the others. It doesn't just happen in HR, it happens everywhere.

cooledcannon · 2013-11-13T20:37:21+00:00

Im not too sure why companies rely on HR...

FlirtySanchez · 2013-11-13T22:02:33+00:00

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I wasn't hired at this place I applied to, even though I was told that I had some of the best scores ever seen on their test, because I'm a man.

I don't have any proof other than everyone being interviewed aside from myself was a woman and the fact that as I walked through the building, I don't think even 10 percent of the employees were men. I was friendly, and answered their questions to the best of my abilities, but it felt like I was being interviewed by some clique-y high school girls who were nice to my face but were going to throw away my resume as soon as I left.

They offered me a different position a week or two later, I show up and the new woman who was interviewing me seemed like she already didn't like me as soon as I got there. She had a bitchy resting face unlike any other.

By the time I left, I was almost relieved to not get the job because I would have been working for some cunt who made me feel unwelcome.

Bartab · 2013-11-13T16:44:15+00:00

i have never had a job where HR makes the final hiring decision. Is this common? Every job i've had HR maybe does an initial phone screen and background check, but beyond that, the actual business managers make the decisions.

PortalesoONR · 2013-11-13T17:49:15+00:00

What an awesome counter argument to the infamous feminist experiment of those identical resumes sent with female/male names.

2013-11-13T23:49:33+00:00

Well.. that whole sexism in the workplace thing is wrong.. haha

2013-11-14T04:11:10+00:00

Story of my life.

tallwheel · 2013-11-13T17:11:04+00:00

Attractive people win.

2013-11-13T18:22:49+00:00

Once again, Feminists' greatest enemy is other women.

As a thought experiment, let's see how many hoops I need to jump through to blame this on the patriarchy: As an anti-litigation tactic, handsome men are less likely to (need to) harass co-workers; plain women are less likely to be harassed, or at least are less likely to find advances from handsome men 'unwelcome'.

moofyre · 2013-11-13T17:55:02+00:00

I dunno about you fellas, but if I had power to hire beautiful sexy wenches knowing I had to look at them all day, I probably would too...

stemgang · 2013-11-13T18:54:12+00:00

It is known.

Electroverted · 2013-11-13T20:48:33+00:00

As an aside, I have a friend who's uncle owns a multi-million dollar company. Her father (the uncle's brother) is a GM there. She told me he can't even get his wife (owner's sister-in-law) a job there because of the amount of red tape and buffers designed by HR. They are a fucking menace.

StoicThePariah · 2013-11-14T00:28:39+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Sagemanx · 2013-11-14T01:35:11+00:00

Post shit like this in News then crosslink it here. If you want to educate people, you don't start with those who already know the topic.

2013-11-14T04:14:19+00:00

Why do they focus on women? Seems like average and ugly men are getting fucked.

2013-11-14T04:58:46+00:00

I have a very American sounding name and I code switch when I have to speak professionally on the phone. When I show up to interviews I usually get the look.

newtothelyte · 2013-11-14T11:18:25+00:00

I either must be seriously confused or from another planet because HR does not do any hiring in my field. It's the responsibility of the department manager to find his/her employees. HR is present in the job interview but they have little say in the hiring process

glguru · 2013-11-14T12:58:17+00:00

Most male redditors right now:

http://beartoons.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Anger.png

5th_Law_of_Robotics · 2013-11-14T17:17:24+00:00

So the patriarchy is women now?

JayBopara · 2013-11-14T17:40:15+00:00

An interesting paper, telling us something which intuitively makes sense. When women make choices, they hate good looking women, and also hate unattractive men. Sound like feminism?

lovethelies · 2013-11-14T21:13:00+00:00

Hm, maybe I oughta get a job in HR. :)

Hello, ladiez!

only_does_reposts · 2013-11-13T22:01:06+00:00

I have to call shenanigans on the "pretty woman" portion of this study although I agree that HR is something that needs to be decentralized and absorbed into the greater infrastructure of an organization.

The pretty woman thing..I earned my Masters last year and the months leading up to the graduation were even more stressful becuase it was the the pretty girls who were all ending up with jobs. Us males? Some of us are still struggling looking for work.

Honestly I think HR has a minor role in this.

Phototoxin · 2013-11-13T19:22:15+00:00

Interesting… I got a job offer and the 2 interviewers were men. Previous job offer 2 interviewers were women. But the chosen candidate was pretty. shrug

mrzack2 · 2013-11-13T20:27:45+00:00

fuk these women

HR (93% women) departments select for handsome men, and plain women.

Comments

Anyone want to do a quick synopsis on that uni and who funded this paper?

Title	HR (93% women) departments select for handsome men, and plain women.
Author	Bartab
Upvotes	998
Comments	223
Date	November 13, 2013 3:06 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1qjeax/hr_93_women_departments_select_for_handsome_men/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/hr-93-women-departments-select-for-handsome-men.1158932 https://theredarchive.com/post/1158932