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[–]yaniggamario 92 points93 points94 points 12 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
The format of this flow chart makes me cringe.
[–]elwray1989 42 points43 points44 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
You can tell that it was obviously made by a man.
[–]hwentworth 25 points26 points27 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Worst. Board game. Ever.
[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points-2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Brigader
[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points-2 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]seductivestain 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Oh fucking no! Someone doesn't like the format! Clearly a feminazi shill amirite?
[–]yaniggamario -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Exactly. This guy has become exactly the person MRA fights against. It's not a matter of women's rights vs. men's rights, it's a matter of combating this radical mentality that plagues every social movement.
[–]yaniggamario 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Label me what you want. It doesn't matter if I'm pro-MRM, pro-feminist, anti-MRM, male, female, straight, gay, whatever. A quick look through my profile will show you I actually support MRM, but that's beside the point. My ideologies have nothing to do with the deserved criticism of OP's flowchart.
Notice how I said the format makes me cringe. I said nothing about the content, or intention, or potential hate-mongering the flowchart possesses. The flowchart itself, as a flowchart, is just poorly designed. If you don't have the mental capacity to notice that, then don't spam me with your ignorant shit-flinging.
Oh, and it's spelled brigadier. Good day.
[–]seductivestain 145 points146 points147 points 12 years ago (171 children) | Copy Link
For fucks sake, this is /r/mensrights not /r/antifeminism
[–]anachronic 42 points43 points44 points 12 years ago (27 children) | Copy Link
You might assume that, until you read the comments on some of the posts here.
I'm a straight white male in my mid-30's and have never once in my entire life heard anyone say "check your privilege".
C'mon guys, are we fighting straw women or real problems here?
[+][deleted] 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
[permanently deleted]
[+]Xodima 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
I'm a 26 year old male and I have never in my life heard "check your privilege" Being in Job Corps for two years, Full Sail UNiversity for another two, and working in customer service, I have seen many demographics and NEVER once seen anyone ask anyone to check their privilege.
[–]zabby39103 -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link
I'm sure. That's your experience. I was just relating mine. For reference I'm from Toronto.
[+]Xodima 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I guess it's a Canadian/regional thing rather than an age thing then.
[–]zabby39103 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I think it's a bit of both. I've never heard it outside of university or someone actively attending a university for a degree that touches on gender politics.
[–]anillop 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
But straw women can be fought without having to actually do anything. Fighting actual issues might take work so people here stick with strawmen because they are easy.
You're here... now what?
[–]MaleMattersUSA 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
or real problems?
See for yourself:
“The Doctrinaire Institute for Women's Policy Research: A Comprehensive Look at Gender Equality” http://malemattersusa.wordpress.com/2012/02/16/the-doctrinaire-institute-for-womens-policy-research/
[+]fukuaneveryoneuknow -14 points-13 points-12 points 12 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link
That last sentence indicates just how ignorant of the whole situation you are.
There are no women involved, there are people aligned to ideology.
straw women
And fuck you, you motherfucking sack of shit.
"straw"
Right
"If life is to survive on this planet, there must be a decontamination of the Earth. I think this will be accompanied by an evolutionary process that will result in a drastic reduction of the population of males." --Mary Daly, former Professor at Boston College, 2001. "The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race." -- Sally Miller Gearhart, in The Future - If There Is One - Is Female. "I feel that 'man-hating' is an honorable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them." -- Robin Morgan, Ms. Magazine Editor. "I haven't the faintest notion what possible revolutionary role white hetero- sexual men could fulfill, since they are the very embodiment of reactionary- vested-interest-power. But then, I have great difficulty examining what men in general could possibly do about all this. In addition to doing the shitwork that women have been doing for generations, possibly not exist? No, I really don't mean that. Yes, I really do." -- Robin Morgan "I want to see a man beaten to a bloody pulp with a high-heel shoved in his mouth, like an apple in the mouth of a pig." -- Andrea Dworkin https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GEm8XaV8rY :: Feminists attempting to forcibly silence MRM voices Pizzey has been the subject of death threats and boycotts because of her statement that most domestic violence is reciprocal, and that women are equally as capable of violence as men. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erin_Pizzey :: Death threats to feminists who go against the dogmatic grain. http://prospect.org/article/toxic-masculinity :: the demonizing of masculinity and maleness
"If life is to survive on this planet, there must be a decontamination of the Earth. I think this will be accompanied by an evolutionary process that will result in a drastic reduction of the population of males." --Mary Daly, former Professor at Boston College, 2001.
"The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race." -- Sally Miller Gearhart, in The Future - If There Is One - Is Female. "I feel that 'man-hating' is an honorable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them." -- Robin Morgan, Ms. Magazine Editor. "I haven't the faintest notion what possible revolutionary role white hetero- sexual men could fulfill, since they are the very embodiment of reactionary- vested-interest-power. But then, I have great difficulty examining what men in general could possibly do about all this. In addition to doing the shitwork that women have been doing for generations, possibly not exist? No, I really don't mean that. Yes, I really do." -- Robin Morgan "I want to see a man beaten to a bloody pulp with a high-heel shoved in his mouth, like an apple in the mouth of a pig." -- Andrea Dworkin https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GEm8XaV8rY :: Feminists attempting to forcibly silence MRM voices Pizzey has been the subject of death threats and boycotts because of her statement that most domestic violence is reciprocal, and that women are equally as capable of violence as men. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erin_Pizzey :: Death threats to feminists who go against the dogmatic grain. http://prospect.org/article/toxic-masculinity :: the demonizing of masculinity and maleness
"The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race." -- Sally Miller Gearhart, in The Future - If There Is One - Is Female.
"I feel that 'man-hating' is an honorable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them." -- Robin Morgan, Ms. Magazine Editor. "I haven't the faintest notion what possible revolutionary role white hetero- sexual men could fulfill, since they are the very embodiment of reactionary- vested-interest-power. But then, I have great difficulty examining what men in general could possibly do about all this. In addition to doing the shitwork that women have been doing for generations, possibly not exist? No, I really don't mean that. Yes, I really do." -- Robin Morgan "I want to see a man beaten to a bloody pulp with a high-heel shoved in his mouth, like an apple in the mouth of a pig." -- Andrea Dworkin https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GEm8XaV8rY :: Feminists attempting to forcibly silence MRM voices Pizzey has been the subject of death threats and boycotts because of her statement that most domestic violence is reciprocal, and that women are equally as capable of violence as men. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erin_Pizzey :: Death threats to feminists who go against the dogmatic grain. http://prospect.org/article/toxic-masculinity :: the demonizing of masculinity and maleness
"I feel that 'man-hating' is an honorable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them." -- Robin Morgan, Ms. Magazine Editor.
"I haven't the faintest notion what possible revolutionary role white hetero- sexual men could fulfill, since they are the very embodiment of reactionary- vested-interest-power. But then, I have great difficulty examining what men in general could possibly do about all this. In addition to doing the shitwork that women have been doing for generations, possibly not exist? No, I really don't mean that. Yes, I really do." -- Robin Morgan "I want to see a man beaten to a bloody pulp with a high-heel shoved in his mouth, like an apple in the mouth of a pig." -- Andrea Dworkin https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GEm8XaV8rY :: Feminists attempting to forcibly silence MRM voices Pizzey has been the subject of death threats and boycotts because of her statement that most domestic violence is reciprocal, and that women are equally as capable of violence as men. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erin_Pizzey :: Death threats to feminists who go against the dogmatic grain. http://prospect.org/article/toxic-masculinity :: the demonizing of masculinity and maleness
"I haven't the faintest notion what possible revolutionary role white hetero- sexual men could fulfill, since they are the very embodiment of reactionary- vested-interest-power. But then, I have great difficulty examining what men in general could possibly do about all this. In addition to doing the shitwork that women have been doing for generations, possibly not exist? No, I really don't mean that. Yes, I really do." -- Robin Morgan
"I want to see a man beaten to a bloody pulp with a high-heel shoved in his mouth, like an apple in the mouth of a pig." -- Andrea Dworkin https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GEm8XaV8rY :: Feminists attempting to forcibly silence MRM voices Pizzey has been the subject of death threats and boycotts because of her statement that most domestic violence is reciprocal, and that women are equally as capable of violence as men. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erin_Pizzey :: Death threats to feminists who go against the dogmatic grain. http://prospect.org/article/toxic-masculinity :: the demonizing of masculinity and maleness
"I want to see a man beaten to a bloody pulp with a high-heel shoved in his mouth, like an apple in the mouth of a pig." -- Andrea Dworkin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GEm8XaV8rY :: Feminists attempting to forcibly silence MRM voices Pizzey has been the subject of death threats and boycotts because of her statement that most domestic violence is reciprocal, and that women are equally as capable of violence as men. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erin_Pizzey :: Death threats to feminists who go against the dogmatic grain. http://prospect.org/article/toxic-masculinity :: the demonizing of masculinity and maleness
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GEm8XaV8rY :: Feminists attempting to forcibly silence MRM voices
Pizzey has been the subject of death threats and boycotts because of her statement that most domestic violence is reciprocal, and that women are equally as capable of violence as men. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erin_Pizzey :: Death threats to feminists who go against the dogmatic grain. http://prospect.org/article/toxic-masculinity :: the demonizing of masculinity and maleness
Pizzey has been the subject of death threats and boycotts because of her statement that most domestic violence is reciprocal, and that women are equally as capable of violence as men. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erin_Pizzey :: Death threats to feminists who go against the dogmatic grain.
http://prospect.org/article/toxic-masculinity :: the demonizing of masculinity and maleness
The tip of the iceberg.
But as I said to another femicunt here, what gets me is how you johnny come lately shit stains with all your ignorance have the gall to tell us anything.
Many MRAs are MRAs because of the actions of feminists, because they got tired of being mistreated and tired of the hypocrisy, the stubbornness, the bigotry passed off as benevolence.
go fuck yourself
[–]anillop 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
Nice hissy fit there. So much for respectful dialog. I understand that there are some feminists that do some pretty evil shit but this place is called mens rights not antifeminisim. This place has become more of a bitchfest about feminism and bad feminists than it is about improving the lives of men through the abolition of outdated gender roles.
[–]fukuaneveryoneuknow -4 points-3 points-2 points 12 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
mens rights not antifeminisim.
You can't get anymore pro-men's rights than anti-feminism.
improving the lives of men
can largely be accomplished with the destruction and dismantling of feminism.
[–]anillop 6 points7 points8 points 12 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
Thats just sad. If feminism went away there would still be plenty of gender roles out there that harm men that would not go away. Talk about simple minded thinking. You clearly see feminism as some sort of boogeyman that you can blame for all your problems. That seems exactly like how feminism uses patriarchy as a universal blame for all their problems.
[–]AJGatherer 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I think you'd fit in better with the more reasonable folks over at /r/egalitarianism. It's a slower sub, but it actually has rational discussion. It's great.
[–]harryballsagna -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
As somebody who's been getting more and more worried by some of the blatant woman bashing here, thanks for the link.
[–]fukuaneveryoneuknow -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
If feminism went away there would still be plenty of gender roles out there that harm men that would not go away.
And if feminism sticks around negative gender norms affecting men would still be around, and get worse, what's your fucking point?
Talk about simple minded thinking. You clearly see feminism as some sort of boogeyman that you can blame for all your problems. That seems exactly like how feminism uses patriarchy as a universal blame for all their problems.
Except for the whole I got proof part.
The very MRM itself is proof that feminism is a problem.
[–]AJGatherer -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
the existence of an opposing movement means the opposed movement is necessarily evil.
Both feminism and the MRM have their pros and cons. Both serve a purpose in bringing down gender roles, but both also tend to demonize those who disagree which is counterproductive. The key is to find a balance that builds all parties to an equal social standing while not tearing anyone down.
[–]fukuaneveryoneuknow -2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
You don't really get it do you?
The MRM exists because of the fact that feminists mistreated and disregarded men.
And don't pretend for a moment that either group is anything alike.
[–]AJGatherer -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I never said men weren't mistreated, and I never said that the MRM wasn't spawned from this mistreatment. I was pointing out that you were demonizing feminism, which is what feminism does to the MRM. In both cases, it's counterproductive. When you make someone out to be evil, you are basing that off of emotions, when the best course is to point out both shortcomings and areas of success in the opposition, while also being aware of your own.
[–]PIBagent 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
there would still be plenty of gender roles out there that harm men that would not go away.
Of course there would be, but we wouldn't have to worry about a specific group working to undermine our efforts.
You clearly see feminism as some sort of boogeyman that you can blame for all your problems. That seems exactly like how feminism uses patriarchy as a universal blame for all their problems.
Except that feminism is not some abstract ideology. Feminism is the face of everything we oppose, a REAL and DEFINABLE face, the face of misandry itself. As Men's Rights Activists it is our duty to fight to eliminate misandry in all of its forms.
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
How much time have you spent debating feminists? If you don't engage any, then their ridiculous rhetorical strategies won't often find you. But things like "check your privilege" are incredibly common things to hear.
/r/tumblrinaction has some good examples as well, of the obnoxious shit they say.
I guarantee it's not a straw man quotation.
[–]anachronic 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I don't spend much time debating crazy people, by choice.
Some women say crazy shit... all I'm saying is that I've met plenty of self-described feminists that do not.
[–]veyron1001 -3 points-2 points-1 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Because like niggers (not black men) feminists are only strong in packs and screaming at the top of their lungs.
[–]anachronic 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Do you ever stop and really listen to what you're saying? Like, ever?!
[–][deleted] 15 points16 points17 points 12 years ago (54 children) | Copy Link
Don't feminists try to stop men from discussing issues that affect men?
[–]Leopod 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (42 children) | Copy Link
Feminist is such a broad label because of how long the term has be in use. There are radicals and moderates of both Feminism and the MRM
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (41 children) | Copy Link
So no feminists do that?
[–]Leopod 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link
There are definitely radicals who do try their hardest to stop the development of the MRM but I would say that in general Feminism is just looking for the best interests of women in society
[–][deleted] 8 points9 points10 points 12 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link
So in general feminism is indifferent to men's rights?
[+]Das_Mime -5 points-4 points-3 points 12 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link
Feminism as a movement is dedicated to equality. A lot of people get hung up on the term "feminism", and try to argue that the name itself means that feminists are somehow advocating a matriarchy or some other ridiculous stuff like that. The simple fact is, if you were living a hundred years ago in a society where women were by default considered inferior, and you were trying to win equal rights for women, it makes perfect sense to call that movement "feminism". You can argue about the name all you like, but the fact is that the vast majority of feminists out there want a world in which both men and women are free to live their lives without being subject to undue pressures, stereotypes, or social roles because of their sex.
[–]VZPurp 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
Feminism as a movement is dedicated to equality.
Citation required.
The actions of feminism betray the notion of equality.
[+]Das_Mime -3 points-2 points-1 points 12 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
Do you want to just respond "citation required" to every self-evident statement? The entire point of feminism is that for most of human history, women have been in a severely unequal position and ought to be treated equally.
[–]VZPurp 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Feminism is not dedicated to equality. No way. Too much misandry for that to even be a remote possibility.
[–]Sasha_ 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
women have been in a severely unequal position and ought to be treated equally.
No they haven't. Not at all. Go and watch a GirlWritesWhat video.
[–]VortexCortex 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link
The simple fact is, if you were living a hundred years ago in a society where women were by default considered inferior, and you were trying to win equal rights for women, it makes perfect sense to call that movement "feminism".
Or, maybe if you were a Marxist, and were applying Marxism to Gender to get twice as many workers while not freeing the family to choose who gets to raise the kids, you might take the word Communist, and make it sound more Feminine so the females you're trying to convince are oppressed will be more receptive to it.
Female + Communism = Feminism.
You know, because that's how Engels invented it... Not based on any evidence, but on untested hypotheses about social speculations.
Through a Marxist historical perspective, Engels analyzes the widespread social phenomena associated with female sexual morality, such as fixation on virginity and sexual purity, incrimination and violent punishment of women who commit adultery, and demands that women be submissive to their husbands. Ultimately, Engels traces these phenomena to the recent development of exclusive control of private property by the patriarchs of the rising slaveowner class in the ancient mode of production, [...]
It's all a bunch of marxist garbage, and Feminists have been duped. Note that "recent" part... Not all of history. Recent. Guess the Radical Feminists conveniently forgot that part when they were adding Patriarchy Theory to Marxist Feminism (look to the edit history of that section... interesting shit), or maybe it was the 3rd wave feminists who forgot, when they were extending the Marxist umbrella to all issues of gender? Or maybe Engels contradicted himself when he stated differently in one of his books, you know, because his theory wasn't based on facts, but on speculative BS.
It's all the same untested, unscientific, Marxist garbage. Want proof? Kyriarchy Theory says what? Kyriarchy, "rule by a lord", is what's oppressive, not just Patriarchy (women can hurt women too). What's Marxist Communism again? The elite rulers are oppressing the proletariat? Ah, yeah. It's the communist manifesto reborn.
I like your use of the word "fact" there. It shows how ignorant you are about that shit you think you know all about.
Now, it's feminists, like Marry Koss of the CDC, who are erasing male victims and female perpetrators of abuse and rape, and since abuse and rape are cyclic in nature (most abusers / rapists were abused themselves), the feminists are creating more female victims (and male victims, etc, etc). So, that's the main reason why I fucking hate feminism. Because I'm a scientist, and also because Feminism does the exact opposite of what they claim it does.
[+]Das_Mime -3 points-2 points-1 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
This is priceless. Only in this sub would people have such a ridiculous misunderstanding. Dude, just cuz there's an 'ism' on the end doesn't mean they go together. I don't even know where to start, because literally every thing you said is riddled with misconceptions.
[–]Sasha_ 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Where the fuck have you come from all of a sudden? Is it just to show us what it's like to be someone who's literally not fucking right about a single fucking thing?
You don't think Simone de Beauvoir melded marxist analysis onto gender in The Second Sexism? You don't know about Friedan, Greer, Dworkin? You don't know about second wave feminism incorporating Critical Theory?
If you don't know anything, just try fucking reading - go to the sidebars for instance. There are too many people on this sub who do actually know their shit, and it's just fucking boring getting dicks like you here.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I don't think you answered my question?
[+]Das_Mime -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yes I did, read the first sentence.
Bullshit it's just the radicals.
And I suppose that we should just ignore the fact that you've showed up here to defend feminism in the middle of a brigade?
[–]MaleMattersUSA -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I try to keep "feminism" and "feminists" in perspective:
"For Feminist Writers: Distinguish Between Feminism and Feminists!" http://malemattersusa.wordpress.com/2010/09/14/for-feminist-writers-distinguish-between-feminism-and-feminists/
[–]huisme -5 points-4 points-3 points 12 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link
Humans murder people.
You murderer!
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
"Human" isn't an ideology. You never make the choice to be human.
Try to be less of an idiot the next time you try to come up with an analogy.
[–]huisme -2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1nl2fb/how_feminism_works/ccjvdy7
The idea is that the presence of a sweeping generalization fallacy ruins any argument that might have gone on here.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link
Well I'm not guilty of murdering people personally, but because I am a human and other humans do that, aren't I responsible for helping to stop other humans from murdering people?
[–]huisme -5 points-4 points-3 points 12 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link
The point was to point out that just as not all humans are murderers, not all feminists 'do that', and neither should be universally treated as such.
[–]CyberToyger 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Terrrible analogy. You are born human and have no choice but to be a human. Being a Feminist however is a decision, and a terrible one at that. If you actively choose to label yourself you will have to shoulder the stigma that comes with it. I don't call myself a Masculist for precisely that reason.
[–]huisme -5 points-4 points-3 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Christians
Drivers
Pilots
Cilebrities
MRAs
There's something that can be said of each group in the same fashion you say feminists 'do that.' The point is still that your assertions are illogical, poorly backed, and give this sub a bad name.
[–]CyberToyger 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Here's the thing though, Feminist groups are responsible for passing legislation, in the name of Feminism. If you are going to call yourself a Feminist, you are aligning yourself with said groups and are supporting said legislation. You are declaring that you are a follower of an ideology, meaning that you agree with the actions carried out by fellow ideological believers, who are following the basic tenets of that ideology. You would be doing yourself a disservice to call yourself a Feminist if you are really a Women's Rights Activist, because the latter does not require you to buy into "Patriarchy Theory" and is not responsible for anti-male legislation.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
So you won't bother answering the question?
[–]huisme -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
Yes.
Now, as I said, your assertions are absurd. Perfect example of sweeping generalization fallacy.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
So you agree that all feminists have an obligation to police other feminists?
[–]seductivestain -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Not really, you might think that because mens rights issues are often brought up in feminist forums, where they are understandably countered because, well, it's a feminist forum.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
What about the university of Toronto?
[+]thezhgguy -19 points-18 points-17 points 12 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
not real feminists
[–][deleted] 11 points12 points13 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
What are the requirements for someone to be a "real" feminist?
[–]sun_tzu_vs_srs 14 points15 points16 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
For one, they must be born in Scotland!
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Is a women's studies degree required?
[–]TheCommonManMedia 13 points14 points15 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
They're all "real feminists." That's the "no true scotsman" fallacy.
[–]Pecanpig -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Well unless they agree on a uniform classification.
[–]Jesus_marley 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
How about "patriarchy theory" as a common metric?
[–]Pecanpig 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I generally agree that believing in "the patriarchy" is a good way to "quality" feminists.
The other would be that they think women are disadvantaged without any reason to think that.
Or having shitty math skills...
[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 12 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
A feminist comment at the very top. Vote brigade much?
[–]loungedmor 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
I don't think any of here truly think we can advance in the issues of men if we spend time talking about how much we hate feminism
We will never advance men's issues so long as Feminism stands in our way. If you aren't interested in challenging feminism, then you will have very few adherents -- because why would anyone bother supporting leaders who refuse to fight for them?
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
What this has to do with my comment, i do not know. You are, however, wrong -- it does advance things to talk about how much we hate feminism as long as we also address how to destroy it. Not to mention that hatred is a great motivator when it comes to destroying something, on that alone we need to encourage more hatred towards feminism.
[–]loungedmor 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Your qualifier is mostly absent in this thread. That was my point and why I am not wrong. Just sitting around saying we hate something does nothing.
[–]seductivestain -4 points-3 points-2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Look dude, I'm as unfeminist as they come, no brigading is going on here, promise. This chart just gives a sample of what arguing with an illogical person is like, not actual feminists, so how does this help advocate for men's rights? Why are we arguing with feminists in the first place? The only thing this chart is really useful is for identifying which feminists are actually fighting for a cause and which ones want attention.
Oh, well, since you promise...
Oh look, a brigader is trying to tell us what Men's Rights should really be about...
[–]anillop -3 points-2 points-1 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Unfortunately that is what it has become. Rather than being a place for talking about the issues that men have this place has become a circlejerk to talk about how terrible feminism is.
[–]addscontext5261 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
we should push back against this idiocy. We shouldn't accept straw manning or simply wash our hands of the whole. We must actively push back against such statements because we as the MRM have a group of people who rely on us to present a reasoned perspective. CAFE and other men's issues groups will not get support if we simply allow angry circle jerking all the time
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Couldn't have said it better myself.
[–]ENTP -5 points-4 points-3 points 12 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link
Anti-feminism = pro-equality
[–]Pecanpig 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
Not necessarily, but it's pretty much a requirement.
[–]ENTP 8 points9 points10 points 12 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
A group and ideology directly responsible for anti-male laws and policies cannot be for equality. Opposing feminist misandry in Universities (like the dear colleague letter which recently robbed college boys accused of sexual misconduct of a fair trial) and Law (VAWA and the duluth model come to mind) is the duty of equality minded people everywhere.
[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics 10 points11 points12 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Opposing modern feminism (as it exists in the west) is part of being pro-equality.
However that doesn't make one pro-equality by itself.
For instance: opposing white supremacists is part of supporting racial equality. However radical black and hispanic racist groups also hate white supremacists but they are hardly in favor of racial equality.
[–]Pecanpig 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
For instance:
ManHoodAcademy.
[+][deleted] 12 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link
This 'extremist' sect is in control of the entire movement. Every major feminist in the country adheres to Patriarchy Theory. They all adhere to Rape Culture Theory. It isn't the 'fringe' that pushed Obama into issuing the Dear Colleague letter, and the NWO regularly stands in the way of shared custody and alimony reform.
So stop spewing your fucking lies. The fringe isn't the problem -- the fringe have no power. The mainstream is the problem.
[+]Hypersapien -7 points-6 points-5 points 12 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link
So male supremacists are pro-equality?
Edit: Wait. Do people think I'm calling MRAs male supremacists? Because I'm not.
[–]ENTP 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Anti-feminism is pro-equality as feminism is a female supremacy movement, responsible for laws and policies that directly harm men.
Let me lay it out more simply, assuming you're not being intentionally obtuse (which you are).
All pro-equality people are anti-feminist.
Not all anti-feminists are pro-equality.
Do you understand now?
[–]Hypersapien -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I'm not being obtuse. I just want people to think about whether their arguments and statements make sense (which you aren't).
The point is that not everyone who is anti-feminist is pro-equality.
[–]ENTP 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Which is exactly what I just said. Please reread my comment... with reading comprehension this time
[+][deleted] 12 years ago* (57 children) | Copy Link
[+][deleted] 12 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]Pecanpig 11 points12 points13 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
We don't oppose women's rights, so that's a false comparison.
[+][deleted] 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
No, we tear ourselves to pieces because people like you can't stand the fact that most MRAs hate feminists, and with good reason. So you make war on those MRAs, and then you bitch about the fact that we fight back.
Grow the fuck up.
Right. Apparently "fighting back" means telling people sympathetic to your cause to "grow the fuck up" (and in another thread you're calling for me to be banned). I'm sure that's how you win the hearts and minds of people and advance your cause. You aren't interested in changing anyone's mind, you just like your hateful little circlejerk.
I'm trying to advance a more moderate point of view. I'm trying to make an argument for what I believe is the best form of Men's Rights. If people don't like it they can downvote me.
Almost everyone supports the basic principles of Men's Rights in regards to family law, equality etc., but they are turned off because people like you say something hateful and ridiculous and that's what hits the media. There are good, convincing arguments to be made. Picking the most radical feminist quotes and making a hateful caricature out of feminists isn't helpful to making those arguments. All it does it make you feel good and alienates everyone else. Hating people isn't constructive, there are reasons people believe what they believe and you don't change minds by hating people. I'm not saying I have NO problem with feminism - far from it - I just want to see the better form of the argument.
[–]Pecanpig 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Irrelevant of what anyone says we do not and as such cannot be observed obstructing women's rights or oppressing them, the same cannot be said of Feminists.
Cut back the BS and we look a lot different.
[–]Hypersapien -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
That's why I don't really identify as an MRA, but rather an egalitarian.
[–]anachronic 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (37 children) | Copy Link
feminism is opposed to men's rights
So, by that logic, does men's rights oppose feminism?
Also - you do realize that feminism is a HUGE and vague concept that's undergone numerous waves and has about a thousand sub-disciplines under it.
To criticize and hate all feminists just because there's a vocal minority of psycho man-hating ones is ludicrous... that's about as crazy as suggesting that all men are rapists.
[+][deleted] 12 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]anachronic 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
So you're completely ignoring my point that not 100% of feminists are evil man haters?
Feminism is a massive social movement. Some feminists suck. Some are actually really nice people.
To throw down massive generalizations and claim all feminists are evil is ridiculous.
Why would 100% of them have to be man haters? That is a bizarre and unrealistic standard.
They, as a group, push man-hating legislation. Feminists oppose equal custody. They oppose alimony reform. They want to remove due process protections from men. They want to ignore the areas in which men struggle. Do 100% believe this? No. Does 100% of the leadership in the feminist movement? Yes.
Dishonest hacks like you demand that we ignore the entire leadership of the feminist movement in favor of a few powerless people who say nice things on the internet.
Tell me, who runs this country? Barack Obama, or some dude pumping gas in the local 7-11? Because to hear you tell it, when judging American policy, the actions and thoughts of that convenience store clerk should matter every bit as much as those of the President of the United States.
Because you are a fucking idiot.
[–]Alzael 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Not ignored. Just irrelevant. The fact that not all feminists are evil man-haters has no relevance on whether feminism is an ideology that teaches evil man-hating. Your statement is a compositional fallacy and a red herring.
They do, however, all support the evil that is the ideology.
[+][deleted] 12 years ago* (7 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
And siding with brigaders, what does that make you?
[–]sillymod 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Apparently it makes him shadowbanned...
[–]addscontext5261 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Do you not get it? No one is brigading. These are literally our opinions yet for some reason you feel that it is invading. I have scoured Fempire sub after fempire sub to find any mention of this thread and I come up with nothing. Perhaps look at your own posts and see why people are criticizing your statements? Hostility isn't a good color on you.
[–]anachronic -2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
You're using an internet talk show called "The Manhood Academy" to "prove" your point?
Dude, how old are you?
[–]sillymod -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Seriously - how many times do we have to ask people to leave the manhood academy spammer alone? Responding to him just encourages him.
[+]fukuaneveryoneuknow -6 points-5 points-4 points 12 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link
Yes, yes we do.
If you have ANY meaningful regard for men or their rights you recognize feminism for what it is, a hate movement.
Once again
Praise feminism, it's "one group" of "good" people who "only want equality".
Criticize feminism and all of the sudden its a non-descript amorphous blob and how dare you dislike, much less disagree with feminists, obviously you hate women and have a small penis.
One of these things is not like the other!
Can you even differentiate ideology and sex/gender(or whatever fucking convoluted twice re-described term people are using)?
Feminism is an ideology consisting of two primary kinds of people.
The useful idiots who contribute nothing negative(besides the whole acting as an accountability shield for people so fucking bigoted they can be described as evil) or positive, and those that matter, the bigots.
fuck you femicunt.
[–]zabby39103 10 points11 points12 points 12 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link
Wow. So someone disagrees with you and he's a "femicunt"?
So, because I think MRAs and Feminists both have some good people and some valid points am I not welcome here? Only the true believers?
The whole MRA vs. Feminism thing that the more extreme members of this subreddit subscribe to is like a microcosm of what's going on in Washington. I thought one of the whole points of this subreddit was that you guys were sick of social movements that have become ridiculously radical, unwilling to listen, and divorced from reality.
[+]fukuaneveryoneuknow -7 points-6 points-5 points 12 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link
So someone disagrees with you and he's a "femicunt"?
If you think it's as simple as disagreement you don't understand whats even being said here.
Feminism and equality are completely and utterly opposed in every way.
Feminism is about equality like nazis are about zionism.
Day and night, black and white.
So, because I think MRAs and Feminists both have some good people and some valid points am I not welcome here?
The whole MRA vs. Feminism thing that the more extreme members of this subreddit subscribe to is like a microcosm of what's going on in Washington.
"extreme" lol, right.
Extreme is being so dismissive of men, so without empathy for someone you believe it's impossible they could ever suffer in any way.
Extreme is referring to masculinity/femininity, something unavoidably integral to who different people are, things they can't change as toxic.
Extreme is advocating gendercide.
Extreme is sending death threats to people who don't jive with your dogmatism.
That's extreme, and that's what feminists are guilty of.
Eat shit femicunt.
[+][deleted] 12 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
[–]addscontext5261 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Don't worry, there are moderates. I know this thread is thread looks bad but honestly its actually an improvement. A year ago, you wouldnt see anything non hateful being upvoted in a thread like this. With the recent thread on trans inclusivity, i think there looks to be a opening at the dark end of this tunnel. If more and more moderates start down voting these angry and useless comments, we will have something more people would be willing to latch onto
[–]zabby39103 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Thanks for the encouraging words, that and the downvotes the other guy is getting lets me know this place isn't a bad scene.
[–]addscontext5261 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Thanks for sticking around. I think we moderates have to make it clear in the coming weeks, what with CAFEs excellent work raising funding for a new battered men's home, that we aren't ** a hate movement. We shouldn't stay silent any longer, willing to just slink over to an unpopulated sub to express our opinions. We must make it **clear this is our movement too. We will not be drowned out by idiots and misogynists because men's issues are important. We don't have the right anymore to sit idly by while what is left of our tattered repsectibility is destroyed. Real men's lives are now at stake if we do not conduct ourselves in a manner fitting a social movement. As Lian Dwyer said recently in his letter to an Anti MR feminist "I do not hate feminists, only misandrists."
[+]fukuaneveryoneuknow -7 points-6 points-5 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
By your definition then, most men aren't welcome here.
You greatly exaggerate the number of men who actually support feminism.
It's irrelevant, anyway, if you're a man and you still support the enemy of men's rights, you're an uncle tom.
You're everything you hate with the genders swapped.
Oh you're so right, because I despise feminists I'm a genocidally motivated bigot who advocates the drafting of blatantly sexist laws.
You people are fucking delusional.
By the time most of you see feminism for what it is, it will be all too late.
Go fuck yourself femicunt.
[–]addscontext5261 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Agreed. I think I remember seeing some transphobic comments from this user a few days ago. Vitriol and unfounded hatred is par for the course for bigots. Clearly we will have some problems with radfems but throwing around mud like a petulant child at every feminist makes us look stupid
[–][deleted] -5 points-4 points-3 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
You aren't welcome here. You're a brigader. If the admins here had even one ounce of honesty, decency or fairness in them, you would have already been banned for being here.
You are breaking the fucking rules. Don't sit there and pretend that you have any kind of moral leg to stand on. You are breaking the fucking rules.
[–]zabby39103 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
What rule am I breaking? What rule?
I found this debate interesting after the whole UofT anti-Men's Rights protests, and I started reading this subreddit. I agree with many but not all points made here. That makes me a brigader?
"/r/MensRights strongly supports principles of free speech. People posting here are sharing their opinions. Opinions will not be removed, but actions may". Deal with it. I'm not breaking any of your made up rules.
[–]BesottedScot 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
You're not breaking any rules and as far as I can tell have a balanced view of the rights movement. What a lot of people - both sides by the way - don't seem to get is that the movements are (or at least, should be) about the exact same thing. Sexual equality for all sexes. It shouldn't just be He said she said (heh) but equality across the whole spectrum. The problem is cultural bias (yes it's there) and personal bias. Male female sexism (or vice versa) is rampant, ingrained and pretty damn hard to get rid of. It's a sad fact but it's true. Nobody's perfect and neither side is. The fact is that many get bogged down in the 'males get this' 'females get that'. There's inequalities on both sides of the fence and unless much more is done by both parties it's going to continually circlejerk.
The ideal world would be 'uni-ism', where mra and fra are one party, but that's a perfect world.
[+][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Please show me the evidence that shows that the entire feminist movement promotes gendercide.
You are an extremist and you are the very kind of person you hate. People like you are only good for bringing misery to the world.
[+]fukuaneveryoneuknow -6 points-5 points-4 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
"If life is to survive on this planet, there must be a decontamination of the Earth. I think this will be accompanied by an evolutionary process that will result in a drastic reduction of the population of males." --Mary Daly, former Professor at Boston College, 2001. "The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race." -- Sally Miller Gearhart, in The Future - If There Is One - Is Female. "I haven't the faintest notion what possible revolutionary role white hetero- sexual men could fulfill, since they are the very embodiment of reactionary- vested-interest-power. But then, I have great difficulty examining what men in general could possibly do about all this. In addition to doing the shitwork that women have been doing for generations, possibly not exist? No, I really don't mean that. Yes, I really do." -- Robin Morgan
"The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race." -- Sally Miller Gearhart, in The Future - If There Is One - Is Female. "I haven't the faintest notion what possible revolutionary role white hetero- sexual men could fulfill, since they are the very embodiment of reactionary- vested-interest-power. But then, I have great difficulty examining what men in general could possibly do about all this. In addition to doing the shitwork that women have been doing for generations, possibly not exist? No, I really don't mean that. Yes, I really do." -- Robin Morgan
Prominent feminists advocating and promoting gendercide and hate of men.
Feminists who when brought up, are touted as "not true feminists".
Logically fallacy and cognitive dissonance are the base of feminist thought.
[+][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
You've already posted those quotes. These are radical thinkers. This would be like using radical/violent black rights leaders to condem anyone asking for black rights.
But let me ask you a simple question, do you support the equal treatment of all people regardless of sex? Just a yes or a no will suffice.
[+]fukuaneveryoneuknow -6 points-5 points-4 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
This would be like using radical/violent black rights leaders to condem anyone asking for black rights.
This is a false comparison and one that shows you have little knowledge about civil rights as well.
Non-violent civil rights leaders relied on people accepting them over people like Malcolm X because they knew that if they backed even men like MLK far enough into a corner they would have no choice but to take the violent route.
Other civil rights activists also didn't compartmentalize their desire for equal rights with their empathy for people like Malcolm.
They understood fully, but decided against that route.
You also can't pretend feminists have ever faced even half the hardship civil rights activists did...just my god...stop right there.
do you support the equal treatment of all people regardless of sex? Just a yes or a no will suffice.
Yes, to which you respond with the typical canned response of "well you're a feminist".
You're not the first hypocrite I've met.
[–]anachronic 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
No wonder nobody takes you guys seriously... it's a shame, really, because a lot of guys on here really do make good points... unfortunately a lot of it is drowned out by angry assholes.
[+]fukuaneveryoneuknow -9 points-8 points-7 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
A spade is a spade you fucking femicunt.
Via urban dictionary
tone police Tone police are people who focus on (and critique) how something is said, ignoring whether or not it is true. They will discard a true statement simply because they don't like how it was presented. This attitude is prevalent among emotional midgets, mental midgets, liberals and wimps. They tend to be intolerant of any statement that isn't couched with empty platitudes and butt-kissing, while thinking themselves a model of tolerance. They are often also hypocrites.
tone police
Tone police are people who focus on (and critique) how something is said, ignoring whether or not it is true.
They will discard a true statement simply because they don't like how it was presented. This attitude is prevalent among emotional midgets, mental midgets, liberals and wimps.
They tend to be intolerant of any statement that isn't couched with empty platitudes and butt-kissing, while thinking themselves a model of tolerance. They are often also hypocrites.
so which are you? Emotional midget, mental midget, liberal, or whimp?
[–]Ripowal1 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Urban Dictionary? And I thought using the Daily Mail was pathetic.
[+]NatroneMeansBusiness -2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You sound like a really nice, popular person who has a lot of friends, both male and female.
[+]offthetwig -11 points-10 points-9 points 12 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
True feminism desires equality. True feminism wonders not only what is the sacred and truest, most productive, useful and joyful manifestation of womanhood, but what is the sacred and truest, most productive, useful and joyful manifestation of manhood. Men and women who use 'feminism' to put men down are not exhibiting the motivation of actual feminism, which was originally for women to gain equal rights, and is now to continue to figure out a consistent balance of rights for both genders.
[–]fukuaneveryoneuknow 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
True feminism
Your argument fell flat on it's face with the very first word.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman
It's no coincidence an ideology as dogmatic as feminism is constantly using fallacies associated with the religious to defend itself.
For all the shit feminists have done to men and their rights, it pisses me off to no end you johnny come lately femicunt loving shit stains come in here and tell us we're "bad" for fighting back against our enemies.
Fuck off into a ditch you sack of shit.
[–]offthetwig -2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
I totally understand. It's incredibly easy for women in general to lapse into puddles of this sort of 'justified' rage against men in general as well. This is where you get the 'feminists' who want to totally wipe out the masculine. But feminist haters are really just their own version of (insert rage induced slurs here) showing up and telling people they're 'bad for fighting back against their enemies.' Both genders have put each other through a lot of misery across time. Humans are good at that, they don't even gender discriminate when it comes to fucking others over! But the point is, we can puddle like this in our age old rages, or we can actually strive to reach across, pull each other up and out, and try. Really, there's so much shit on each side for so long, that probably all any of us can actually do is try. I know your rage. We all have our rage, our lovely, truth fueled rage. The only thing that is better than giving into it and tasting it to its hot metal core is looking beyond it because we know it's what keeps the hate alive.
[–]fukuaneveryoneuknow -4 points-3 points-2 points 12 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
I totally understand.
No, you don't. At all.
It's incredibly easy for women in general to lapse into puddles of this sort of 'justified' rage against men in general as well.
You're gonna need a lot more quotes for justified.
Both genders have put each other through a lot of misery across time. Humans are good at that, they don't even gender discriminate when it comes to fucking others over! But the point is, we can puddle like this in our age old rages, or we can actually strive to reach across, pull each other up and out, and try. Really, there's so much shit on each side for so long, that probably all any of us can actually do is try. I know your rage. We all have our rage, our lovely, truth fueled rage. The only thing that is better than giving into it and tasting it to its hot metal core is looking beyond it because we know it's what keeps the hate alive.
what the fuck is this non-sense?
Some sort of relativist bullshit?
Unlike your pathetic femicunt indignation men and MRAs have legitimate provable gripes against feminism.
the MRM exists almost entirely because of the negative impact feminism has had on men.
feminism since its inception exists to benefit women over men.
Whether it's voting "rights" without the responsibility men have, or drafting policies and laws that direclty discriminate against men.
[–]offthetwig -2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Dude, you're attacking in general just like you're pissed at them for attacking in general. I'm sorry for your pain. Peacing out 'cause I'm just pissing you off.
[–]fukuaneveryoneuknow -2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Dude, you're attacking in general just like you're pissed at them for attacking in general.
You sound like a fucking idiot.
I'm not speaking 'in general' about anything, I'm talking about specific and deliberate actions by feminists against men.
Peacing out 'cause I'm just pissing you off.
you're running away because you're scared, that stinging you feel, it's called cognitive dissonance, its what happens when hypocrites face their hypocrisy.
[–]offthetwig 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Actually, it's just that you keep speaking to me with such patent disrespect that I don't think we can have a discussion about this without me getting pissed and this whole thing turning into an emotional brawl. I've been talking in generalizations because I think the problems lie within the big picture, not the specific wrongs perpetrated by one set of humans against another that either point of view could reference ad nauseam. Eat a fucking Snickers.
[–]fukuaneveryoneuknow -2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
If you want respect, don't hold such disgusting positions.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Shut your fucking mouth you goddamned troll.
[–]fukuaneveryoneuknow -3 points-2 points-1 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Make me?
Fuck off.
Again, make me.
[+][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I agree, by steriotyping feminists, it hurts the legitimate feminists who are doing good work.
In theory, MRA and feminists are the same thing, we both want equality, which means treating feminists with respect, not making blanket statements.
[–]seductivestain -3 points-2 points-1 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Seriously, how does this sorry excuse for a flow chart help anyone?
[+][deleted] -3 points-2 points-1 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It further reinforces negative stereotypes of a group of people, something which this subreddit should be against, even if that group has differing opinions.
TL;DR no one.
[–]stk0101-1 points 12 years ago [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
feminism boils down to special privileges for women which cut into men's rights. you simply aren't educated enough to grasp this.
[–]seductivestain 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
While that is indeed an arguable point, that sentiment does not constitute all of feminism, which contains many subgenres, and shouldn't be of concern in this forum. This flow chart is just an unnecessary attack on all the possible fallacies some feminists have used, and is not useful to anyone other than perhaps bringing out a chuckle here and there.
[+]vocivferou -2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Feminists love to LIE about their intentions. This is why debates like this are necessary to expose your fraudulent and deceptive agenda.
No intelligent person should ever believe the lies coming out of a man-hating feminist's mouth.
[–]Jennazn 38 points39 points40 points 12 years ago (33 children) | Copy Link
Seems a bit extreme, no?
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago* (29 children) | Copy Link
It fits with what I've seen of feminism. Censorship, threats, screams of 'Misogyny!' every time someone criticizes women -- or even individual women specifically -- for anything in any way.
I doubt that they regularly poison dogs, but they do regularly provide cover for false rape accusers and abusive women, so it's pretty much a wash. Plus, their tendency to push for new and exciting ways to send men to prison to be raped.
Edit: Oh, I didn't realize that you were a piece of shit Brigader who would call her little feminist friends in downvote everyone that disagreed with you.
[–]matt_512 15 points16 points17 points 12 years ago (26 children) | Copy Link
Poisoning dogs might be a reference to Erin Pizzey.
[–]fukuaneveryoneuknow -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (24 children) | Copy Link
I don't know, sending death threats to someone because they have an opinion differing from yours is pretty evil, more than poisoning someone's dog.
Or did they actually do both.
Because I wouldn't put it past them.
[+][deleted] -7 points-6 points-5 points 12 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link
Have men never done these things as well? Or are you so stupid to believe men have no blood on there hands. Both male and female have committed crimes against the other and its time extremists like you went back into your caves because you're just making the world worse.
[–]fukuaneveryoneuknow 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (22 children) | Copy Link
Have men never done these things as well?
We're not talking about men or women, we're talking about feminism an ideology you fucking dullard.
[+][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link
Ah I see now. So when women had to fight for the right to vote and were attacked and had there lives threatened, that wasn't ideology hurting them?
[–]fukuaneveryoneuknow -3 points-2 points-1 points 12 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link
So when women had to fight for the right to vote and were attacked and had there lives threatened, that wasn't ideology hurting them?
Ooh yay, I was wondering when the revisionist herstory would come up.
The women who "fought" for the "right" to vote were self interested racist upper class white women.
Oddly not all too different from your modern feminist.
[+][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link
Oh so they were handed the right to vote? Or maybe they didn't really want it? Whats your "version" of history? Its fun to see how distorted your world view is, please continue with your ravings.
[–]PIBagent 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Oh so they were handed the right to vote?
Seeing as how they didn't have to sign up for anything like selective services in order to get that right to vote yes, yes it was just handed to them. The same cannot be said for men who had to (and still do) sign up for selective services in order to be able to vote or receive any sort of federal aid.
Were men handed the right to vote? Are you under the impression that men have been voting for all of recorded history, while women only received this right in 1920?
Because nothing you say makes sense unless you are that historically ignorant.
[–]fukuaneveryoneuknow -4 points-3 points-2 points 12 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link
Firstly, for women voting isn't a right, its a privilege.
Thats what you call being given the ability to do something but without the responsibility that comes with it that others bare.
Secondly, yes they were handed the right to vote.
They did what feminists always do, they got angry, they shamed, and they bullied until men threw each other under the bus to help women.
And there were a number of women who were in fact opposed to getting the vote, the loudest voices opposed to it in fact.
It must be. I thought it was a pretty funny jab.
[+][deleted] 12 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
The only embarrassment here is your complete and utter lack of reading comprehension.
[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Yes, but I decided to take it as a joke and had a bit of a laugh. Obviously this is generalizing, but there are some feminists who totally follow this flow chart so it has some good points, but I would say that most of us rational feminists see a lot of flaws with this chart.
No, you mostly just project your own reasonableness onto a movement that is, on the whole, unreasonable.
I don't give a fuck how you all act on the individual level -- this flow chart describes how you leaders act, and your leadership is who calls the shots. Your leaders are extremists, so it doesn't matter how many of you are reasonable at the individual level.
You do have to answer for your leaders, because they are your leaders. You have to answer for what you pressure the Democratic party into, which is extremist policies Dear Colleague and one-sided policies like the ACA, which gives a ton of free stuff to women at the cost of young men (who are in no position financially to be treated like your workhorses that way). You have to answer for NOW blocking child custody reform. You have to answer for the academics who call masculinity toxic and who advance notions like Schroedinger's Rapist.
This isn't about SRS or a some ex-girlfriend in college the way you feminists always like to pretend that it is. It's about the actual policies your movement puts into place. A movement deserves to be judged by its results, not it's intentions. Intentions lie, actions do not.
Oookay.
[–]BesottedScot 19 points20 points21 points 12 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
I can't be the only one that hates this diagram, it makes us look whiny and incapable of mature discussion about equality.
[–][deleted] 9 points10 points11 points 12 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
You aren't the only one that hates this diagram.
The big problem is, you all don't just hate the diagram -- you hate those of us who support it. You want to wage war against us, to remove us from the movement in order to get a nice little headpat from the feminist subs.
[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
No. I hate what toxic anti-feminism is ruining Men's Rights. I'm against patriarchy theory just like most of us here. But I'm also against shitty circlejerking that turns Men's Rights into a label you can wear.
This "diagram" as you call it, is really just shitty circlejerking. It contributes nothing to Men's Rights. It detracts from it.
[–]addscontext5261 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Basically anyone who disagrees slightly with anything they say is a "feminist invader." I think its clear who actually should leave this sub
Even then, I don't think people should leave if they are capable of correcting their attitudes and behaviors. If they find themselves defending shitty circlejerking we should tell them to do some soul searching.
How can any behavior be corrected if they are allowed to continually attack people without cause. I know we value free speech in this sub but how is it fair to anyone who isn't a raving idiot to allow these guys to anatgonize everyone with their vitriol? I think we need some rule changes tbh. Having a differing viewpoint is fine but being a petulant child should not be allowed
A fair point.
[–]seductivestain -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Nobody listen to this guy, please. After a quick flip through his comments, he appears to be either a very dedicated SRS troll hellbent on making us look bad, or a supreme misogynist.
[–]ebonlance 31 points32 points33 points 12 years ago (41 children) | Copy Link
While I largely agree with the sentiment, the hyberbole makes this seem pretty infantile and it isn't humorous enough to compensate for that fact. The whole family dog line in particular is just silly.
I'd like to see this flowchart again, using more prifessional language, cross-referenced with sources exhibiting the behavior you're alluding to (like the UoT protests, the call for a "mood watcher", examples of feminist literature making ridiculous stretches to blame perceived inequalities on the 'patriarchy', etc.)
It's also worth noting that many patriarchy-theory feminists don't argue that men don't suffer, but that we do and it is caused by the patriarchy. Your chart implies the opposite. Both are ridiculous notions obviously but it's important to correctly characterize the attacks on the MR movement.
[–]Alzael 47 points48 points49 points 12 years ago (30 children) | Copy Link
The whole family dog line in particular is just silly.
Not so silly. They actually did that. When Erin Pizzey opened up the first womens shelter. She noticed that almost half of the women who came to her shelter had been just as (or more) abusive than the men and often had started the violence. She then made the mistake of telling feminists this. She received bomb threats, death threats against her and her family, protests at her book signings, and they poisoned her dog which prompted her to move out of the country.
[–]ebonlance 16 points17 points18 points 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Wow. I was not aware of that. I rescind my objection.
[–]Alzael 11 points12 points13 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You can check it out for yourself. It's all public record. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erin_Pizzey
[–]chewinchawingum 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
My dog was shot on Christmas Eve on my property when I was doing some of my work and it was a terrible sight, he didn't die fortunately but it was terrible with his bleeding and screaming in pain. I don't know if it was feminists or not
Source.
[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points-1 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Yeah, someone else just randomly shot her dog because... well, why would they do that again?
[–]chewinchawingum 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
During hunting season, accidental shootings are so common, agencies issue press releases warning hunters to be careful not to shoot dogs.
Other than that, I can't explain animal cruelty, but it is so common that there are national organizations set up to combat it: ASPCA, RSPCA. Try Googling "animal cruelty shooting" if you want to temporarily lose your faith in humanity.
[–]Pecanpig -3 points-2 points-1 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
To be fair though that's not their regular everyday MO.
[–]Ripowal1 17 points18 points19 points 12 years ago* (23 children) | Copy Link
If you're going to accuse people of things, let me give you some facts about the whole dog dealio and break down your claim:
1) Erin Pizzey does not know who attacked her dog
1.5) Erin Pizzey also worked with people with violent tendencies, another viable pool of potential attackers
2) Erin Pizzey's dog was shot, not poisoned
3) Erin Pizzey's dog did not die
Just FYI, so you can be more accurate in your future laundry-listing of the wrongdoings of feminists.
Source: Erin Pizzey's AMA
[–]XWindX 7 points8 points9 points 12 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
"Pizzey says it was after death threats against her, her children, her grandchildren, and the killing of her dog, all of which she states were perpetrated by militant feminists,[12][13] "
It's funny how the sources conflict. That's interesting.
[–]Ripowal1 10 points11 points12 points 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
It's only Fox news article [12] that says her dog died, Erin Pizzey's article [13] and her AMA both say her dog was shot, and her AMA says the dog lived.
So no, since it's Fox I'm not really surprised. It still doesn't account for the idea her dog was poisoned that Alzael brought up, and none of the sources make the claim that feminists were the ones who killed/shot/poisoned it.
Let's all play telephone!
[–]XWindX -3 points-2 points-1 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
I think it's fascinating. Unfortunately, especially prevalent in the /r/MensRights subreddit, misogyny is a very real thing. I wish we could all just believe in equity and as she said her AMA, I'm afraid the Mens Rights movement is becoming too big and too vague to become an all encompassing term.
[–]XWindX 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Sorry. I don't care enough about my claim to do the research considering sleep is due, but it makes sense that most redditing men that hate women would flock to r/MensRights in the same way that many women that hate men flock to r/Feminism.
[–]Alzael -5 points-4 points-3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
but it makes sense that most redditing men that hate women would flock to r/MensRights in the same way that many women that hate men flock to r/Feminism
Actually no it doesn't. Not unless you're using some fancy new-fangled kind of logic that other humans are not aware of.
[–]Alzael -5 points-4 points-3 points 12 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link
With certainty no.But realistically we can make very educated guesses.
None of whom were actively sending her death/bomb threats or harassing her.
2) Erin Pizzey's dog was shot, not poisoned 3) Erin Pizzey's dog did not die
I stand corrected.
[–]Ripowal1 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link
we can make very educated guesses
But they're still guesses. I'm just saying, you shouldn't go around claiming things as fact when you don't actually know. Isn't this the same sub that gets riled up when the "alleged" is left off of the term "rapist" (and even "victim")? You don't get to call the kettle black, pot.
Maybe I'm just a very cynical person, but it seems like the "best" time to attack someone would be when there's another group in the forefront that everyone will readily blame. It's unlikely, but since no conclusion about the dog shooter was ever reached, it's intellectually dishonest to say "feminists killed her dog" as if it's a fact.
[–]Alzael 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
But they're still guesses.
Guesses based on evidence. Induction is not the same as juts making things up.
I'm just saying, you shouldn't go around claiming things as fact when you don't actually know.
You never know anything. You make the best claims with the facts you have.
Isn't this the same sub that gets riled up when the "alleged" is left off of the term "rapist" (and even "victim")? You don't get to call the kettle black, pot.
Probably best to ask one of the MRA's this.
It's unlikely, but since no conclusion about the dog shooter was ever reached, it's intellectually dishonest to say "feminists killed her dog" as if it's a fact.
Actually no, it wouldn't be. Assuming that the dog had died of course. A perfectly logical case can be made for saying that (though it might not be true) and there are facts to support such a conclusion (such as the death threats and bomb threats). It would only be intellectually dishonest if you purposefully ignored relevant facts and/or deliberately presented the facts in a misleading manner.
[–]dlouwe 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
This is nonsense. Of course we can know things. Inductive reasoning is probabilistic, so using it to reach a definitive conclusion is faulty.
[–]Alzael 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
Of course we can know things.
No, actually you don't. Nothing is known for absolute certain. That's why disciplines like science function the way they do. Because they understand and take into account that no matter how much you know or how many facts you have you can still be proven wrong (however improbable).
Inductive reasoning is probabilistic, so using it to reach a definitive conclusion is faulty.
I never once said otherwise. I said there were facts to support the conclusion that made it reasonable to reach. I never said anything about definitive.
If you're going to try to put words into my mouth and misrepresent my words at least do a decent job of it.
[–]dlouwe 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
It looked like you were trying to say that it would be reasonable to say that "feminists killed her dog" (if the dog had actually died). That sounds fairly definitive to me, but perhaps I misunderstood?
[–]Alzael -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
It looked like you were trying to say that it would be reasonable to say that "feminists killed her dog" (if the dog had actually died).
That is what I said.
That sounds fairly definitive to me
No it isn't. To claim that something is definitive (in this context) is to say that it is what it is beyond argument or question with no further possibility of it being changed.
Which is a very large difference from saying that one can make a reasonable and supported conclusion from the available evidence that something has occurred.
[–]dlouwe 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I'll just say that I generally agree with what you're saying; I probably could have made my point better without bringing up induction in such a general way. It was more that Alzael was essentially trying to call into doubt knowledge itself in order to justify calling an uncertain thing certain, and then calling it "induction". I'm sure there could be cases where induction could reach a conclusion so close to certain that it might as well be, but this certainly isn't one of them.
[–]Sasha_ -2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Actually I know Erin very well, and spoke to her this morning, and she's pretty clear it was a feminist who shot her dog, she just wasn't able to prove it.
[–]hecter 6 points7 points8 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
... prifessional ...
I'm sorry, I just found the spelling mistake to be kinda funny.
[–]ebonlance 8 points9 points10 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Clearly it's because the patriarchy designed my keyboard.
[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points-2 points 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Ah, the tone police. Just what we always need...
Then I read the end, and it all became clear to me. Your primary purpose us to defend feminism and place it outside of the the acceptable sphere of criticism.
[–]ebonlance 6 points7 points8 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Quite the opposite. If we are going to attack feminism we shouldn't be aping their ridiculous tactics of hyperbole and appeals to emotion. We should be better than that.
Fine. Then downvote me into oblivion. I'm sure that will make entirely willing to listen to what and yours have to say.
Fuck off, shitbag. You do just want to tell other people what we are and aren't allowed to say.
[–]Stankmonger -3 points-2 points-1 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I agree with you. A lot of the people of MR just need to take a deep breath and realize that fighting feminism with the tactics that they utilize isn't going to get anywhere. Although in truth, comparing and explaining situations to them in ways that should be painfully obvious don't tend to work either....
[+]shut_up_dood -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Shut the fuck up, stupid and re-read what he/she said.
[–][deleted] 18 points19 points20 points 12 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link
I consider myself to be a feminist (I care about rights for women). But I also consider myself as someone who cares about men's rights. If you'd rather call that egalitarian go ahead I'm not too concerned with semantics. Just as there are varying degrees of severity/irrational thinking with any group of people, so it is with feminists. And dare I say men's rights activists too? I joined this sub to get a male perspective of men's rights but most of what I see is just feminist bashing.
It's kind of frustrating and really off-putting for someone who came onto the scene hoping to learn and discuss. It makes me feel that I'm not welcome here and it doesn't seem too conducive to constructive dialogue about issues that concern both men AND women.
[–]Tammylan 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It makes me feel that I'm not welcome here and it doesn't seem too conducive to constructive dialogue about issues that concern both men AND women.
I can read your post. It hasn't been deleted.
That means you haven't been instantly hit with the ban hammer like you would be if you posted a dissenting view on any of the feminist subs.
[–]AtheistConservative 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
I joined this sub to get a male perspective of men's rights but most of what I see is just feminist bashing.
I joined the Ho Chi Minh fan club in the 1960s, but most of the discussion just centered around how bad the US was.
I joined /r/FellowshipOfTheRing, but most of the content was just about how bad Sauron is.
I joined /r/I'veBeenBurnedByAForestFire but most of what I see is just irresponsible camper bashing.
I left /r/Alderan because all they did was bash the Deathstar.
and it doesn't seem too conducive to constructive dialogue
I would say the ball is firmly in feminism's court on this, but academic feminists would claim that's rape like. Eh, who am I kidding, as male I'm a Shrodinger Rapist.
[+][deleted] 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]AtheistConservative 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Click on /r/Alderan for a giggle.
[–]neightdog 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
D:
[–]Pecanpig 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It's a bit of an oxymoron to say you are part of a hate movement directed at men and then say that you support mens rights. It's not semantics.
[–]MockingDead -3 points-2 points-1 points 12 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
I consider myself to be a feminist (I care about rights for women). But I also consider myself as someone who cares about men's rights. If you'd rather call that egalitarian go ahead I'm not too concerned with semantics.
Why not use the word Egalitarian, then? Feminists are horrible people who belong to a cult of man-hating shrews. So, it's not semantics.
Just as there are varying degrees of severity/irrational thinking with any group of people, so it is with feminists.
NAFALT. I direct your attention to [this].(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQWoNhrY_fM)
Ah, code red. Well, we love us soem concern trolling, don't we?
Boo hoo. Maybe you feel unwelcome because feminists are not pandered to here. You are welcome to discuss, but we won't coddle you.
And I don't see you discussing anything in Men's rights. All I see is you whining about your feels. If you have something relevant to discuss, discuss it. Otherwise, jog on.
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
I'm really not trolling. I did start to watch that video and while those women she quotes seem to label themselves as "feminists" I would call them misandrists. If you're saying that men aren't needed in the family, to me, that's a misandrist, not a feminist, statement. Just as some people belonging to religious groups will promote gay bashing and hide behind the label of "god loving/fearing" it's just bigotry in the end.
It would be like saying ALL men's rights activists are mysogynists which they are obviously not even though some members do make some misogynistic statements (and have been called out for it on this subreddit even).
They are both Feminists and misandrists, the two are basically synonyms at this point.
We put down misogynists as a community, Feminism is a community of misandrists (and ironically misogynists) to the core, it's the egalitarians that they put down. (read: ban/assault)
[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points-1 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Look, you seem to not understand something.
At it's base, how can a movement that's about equality be called feminism? The name itself says that it's not concerned about "Women and Men being equal", but with female superiority.
Why is Feminism considered acceptable, but Masculism is somehow sexist?
[–]FigNinja 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It's not like there was some convention where all the women's rights activists sat down and chose a name. Charles Fourier coined it and it stuck.
[–]BesottedScot 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Masculism isn't considered sexist at all if you don't consider it so. In a Feminist framework masculism is considered sexist - just like in a Masculist framework the opposite would be true. Masculism just means an advocacy for male issues or an identification with the opinions/values of men.
In the same way that anti-feminism masculism is considered sexist - so too is anti-masculism feminism. They're both radical sections of the same (but opposing) movements.
On a technical level, you are completely correct.
And in a perfect world, the technical definition would be the only one that mattered.
Unfortunately, we do not live in a perfect world. We are constantly affected by gender politics, and unfortunately for men, feminist politics are the current hot spot.
As such, within our culture, masculism is seen as sexist, because feminism is leading the cultural climate.
[–]BesottedScot -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It's sadly ironic that both movements stand for equality for both sexes but culturally there's bias against both sexes AND both movements. It boggles me.
[–]JudgeWhoAllowsStuff -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Really, most of what you see? Try venturing beyond what makes the front page.
I can change that to a lot of what I see.
[–]Alzael -3 points-2 points-1 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This is a fallacy however. While what you say is true it has no bearing on what feminism is. In any group there is variance in how they interpret or use the ideas of the ideology. That does not alter what the ideology itself is, though.
[+]fukuaneveryoneuknow -8 points-7 points-6 points 12 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
If you'd rather call that egalitarian
I call it an oxymoron.
As well as a hypocrite.
makes me feel that I'm not welcome here
Well, if you align yourself with the enemies of the rights of men...guess whose friend you're not.
And dare I say men's rights activists too?
Like that time those MRAs issued death threats to that one MRA who disagreed with a popular MRM opinion...oh wait.
No, ok, here we go.
How about when that prominent MRA advocated gendercide against women..er hold on..that..didn't happen.
Cutting the facetiousness, fuck you, don't pretend for even a moment the shit feminism has done to men and MRAs is on par with simply being opposed to feminism.
it doesn't seem too conducive to constructive dialogue about issues that concern both men AND women.
You mean like every feminist discussion ever?
Also
The biggest difference you'll notice between the MRM and feminism here on reddit atleast, is who is and isn't banned.
What gets removed and what doesn't.
It wasn't so long ago one of the feminist subs explicitly stated in the rules non-feminist aligned comments that got upvoted would be removed.
[–]addscontext5261 -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I thank you for willing to have an open and honest discussion about gender issues. I realize a lot of comments here are going to be skeptical simply because of a lot of people's experiences with radical feminism on here. I understand your frustration and empathize somewhat with your feelings of frustration about being included. I have felt the same feelings when trying to discuss my thoughts in many a feminist forum I have found on the interwebs. Hopefully in the coming days we can have these discussions without outright hostility. In the mean time, I hope you do stick around in the coming days. There seems to be a shift going on between the old and new mensrights. Hopefully the fact your post isn't down voted to oblivion is indicative in a trend of moderates coming to this sub.
[–]Blurgas 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The bit about adult entertainment reminds me of a scene from American Dad where an older woman working in a strip club asks Hayley who is really being exploited, the girl wiggling her T&A on stage, or the guy dropping 3 days worth of pay in 10 minutes to see it
[–]TerriChris 6 points7 points8 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Brilliant.
[–]AtheistConservative 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Fantastic, Radiohead's Karma Police came on just as I got to read the tone and source police comments here.
[–]nathanpaulyoung 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This desperately needs sources or citations, lest it seem incendiary.
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Maybe you need to... man up.
YYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAHH
[–]fukuaneveryoneuknow 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This subreddit has gone so far into the shitter some of the comments are word for word example NAFALTs.
[–]anachronic 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
I have never in my entire life heard anyone utter the words "check your privilege".
What the hell kind of women are you guys hanging around with...?
[–]Pecanpig 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
The kind we don't want to be around but happen to shop at the same places we shop.
[–]anachronic -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Where do you shop?! I've never in my life had a conversation with a stranger in a market, besides maybe saying "excuse me" or "thanks".
Are we talking about one single woman that lives in your town who hates you, or are we talking about multiple complete strangers that have come out of nowhere to berate you in public for no reason? I'm genuinely curious, because this type of thing has never happened to me. Even when I've run into ex's in public, we just kind of avoided each other and went our separate ways.
Bookshop.
The latter.
I dunno man... I dated a woman who did a feminist studies track in college and never once did I hear her ever say anything as crazy as on the posted graphic. I had no idea what "check your privilege" even meant until I saw it here and had to google it.
I don't disagree there are some terrible man-hating feminists out there -- I've met some, and they're awful -- but to try and paint all feminists as evil man haters is disingenuous.
[–]headless_bourgeoisie 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link
Whoever made that needs an editor. "pressurise companies?" Are you kidding me?
[–]vipt84 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
A bit ironic coming from someone who doesn't know when and when not to use "whom".
[–]headless_bourgeoisie 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
...shit
[–]justconsume 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This would make for some pretty bad spaghetti code.
It's cynical, to be sure, but some truths are reflected:
[–]VideoLinkBot 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Here is a list of video links collected from comments that redditors have made in response to this submission:
Cool graphic, pathetic comments. Feminists apparently have so few real problems that they can spend their time soiling a men's rights site with their dishonesty.
[–]Akesgeroth 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I don't think whoever made this flowchart understands how flowcharts work.
The fuck is this thread? Get the fuck out of here all of you seriously I want to talk about actual issues.
[–]chavelah -3 points-2 points-1 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
So, MRAs "organize to attempt to help themselves" and feminists "flock together like sheep to pressurise companies?" That seems like an objective assessment.
Also, if you are too lazy or too stupid to check your creations for spelling and grammar before you post them online... Why bother?
[–]Pecanpig 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
Direct actions vs proxy action.
[–]chavelah 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Direction actions? You mean direct action?
In which case, WTF, because all decent activists take both direct action and proxy action. They march in the streets AND they lobby legislators. They take their discrimination cases to court AND they promote boycotts of corporations.
Lack of direct action is definitely not a criticism that can reasonably be leveled at the feminist movement. You might not care for all the actions, but that's a different issue. And the MRM, which is much newer and much smaller, is making huge strides in ramping up political activism of both the direct and proxy varieties.
[–]lockedge 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I must have missed this memo at last weekend's meeting. :\ Though, if I'm going to be honest, it all seems a bit tepid to me, a bit safe.
[–]offthetwig -3 points-2 points-1 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
This is how negative discrimination works. Gender based, race based, status based, what have you. This is indifference to the wellbeing of others. This is not feminism. This is selfish people thinking and acting selfishly.
negative discrimination
Obviously discrimination is good when we pull a double think and attach the word positive to the front of it.
This is not feminism. This is selfish people thinking and acting selfishly.
Wouldn't want feminists to ever have to take responsibility for their actions.
[–]Pecanpig 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yea, that's Feminism.
[+]True_Whit -5 points-4 points-3 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Can this stop be the "hating on feminism" subreddit? What does this have to do with mens rights and male related issues?
[–]crazyex 9 points10 points11 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Feminism has worked and continues to actively work against mens' rights.
The concern trolling activity in here is off the charts today.
[–]fukuaneveryoneuknow 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
And here I thought I was going crazy.
I'm just about ready to shit a brick and fucking hit someone with it.
It's like we're being brigaded with concern trolls.
[–]Pecanpig 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
When those Feminists represent a significant amount of the Feminist population and start speaking up I will listen, but until then Feminism is a man hating cult centered around proxy violence.
[–]AtheistConservative 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
NAFALT somewhere else.
[–]SilencingNarrative -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Effing brilliant.
[–]crazyex 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Feel free to post a comment calling a submission in /r/feminism "crap" and see how long your comment stays alive and how long your posting privileges last there
[–]Pecanpig 7 points8 points9 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
They would ban crap like this and then invade any other subs which have it up and report it to hell while downvoting.
[+]Arqideus -10 points-9 points-8 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
How this flowchart works:
Relish in your glory of putting women down
Is your head burrowed so far up your ass you really are unable to differentiate 3+ billion people and one single political ideology?
[–]StarsDie 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Really.
For all the talk about how MRA's generalize about women; trying to say that they're all gynocentric and/or feminists... It seems to be perfectly acceptable for feminists and feminist sympathizers to routinely make the distinction that feminism = women. You'd think that would break their code of not generalizing women. But I guess not as long as it's feminists making the generalization...
[+][deleted] -4 points-3 points-2 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
This isn't feminism, it's extremism.
[+][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
You miss my point.
I'm expressing the fact that this is so far beyond feminism that it can't really be called that. No actual feminist would do these things, therefore they're not true feminists, at least in my eyes.
A real feminist stands up for equality, not the extreme hatred and bias you speak of.
[+]harryballsagna -8 points-7 points-6 points 12 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
Great! We get to slander a whole movement that has absolutely no merit. Obviously they do nothing right, but we do! This chart will totally help our cause! Well done, fellows!
[–][deleted] 8 points9 points10 points 12 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
...what does feminism do right?
[+]harryballsagna -9 points-8 points-7 points 12 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
The implication of this question is that you think it is a completely meritless movement. If you think that, you have no historical knowledge of women's plights or you have already made up your mind and just want to argue.
If you're truly openminded, there is ample literature on the Internet to help you reach a balanced conclusion.
[–]fukuaneveryoneuknow 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
If you think that, you have no historical knowledge of women's plights
Thank you feminism for giving women the "right" to vote with none of the responsibility(draft/conscription).
Thank you for telling me how "toxic" my masculinity is.
Thank you for drafting laws and policies all cross the first world that directly discriminate against men.
Thank you for such gems as "a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle".
Thank you for all those male reproductive rights.
Thank you for claiming to be about equality but totally ignoring men.
Thank you for dusting generations of male rape victims under the rug.
Thank you for the shame.
Thank you for the hate.
Thank you for the censorship.
Thank you for ending MGM.
Thank you for saying that the biggest discrimination in business is that women are payed less due to discrimination(not really) while men take all the hardest and most dangerous jobs making up the overwhelming job deaths.
Thank you for ending male disposability.
Thank you for addressing male suicide and depression.
Thank you for ensuring women pull their weight in the military.
Thank you for letting me know how awful my sexuality is, especially if I'm heterosexual.
Thank you for neglecting men so much and making the situation so dire for so many men that among MRM groups having a suicide hotline available is standard and expected.
Thank you for a century of teaching me how sub human I am.
2+2=5
There are 5 lights.
War is peace freedom is slavery ignorance is strength!
[–]fukuaneveryoneuknow 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yea I know, it's a bit over used, I felt a bit dirty using it.
[–]harryballsagna 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Are you suggesting that feminism has made no positive contributions to women's situation in the world.
My assertion is not that feminism is flawless, but that feminism isn't entirely without merit. I would say the same about the MRM. It has a ton of people I would consider very undesirable to the movement, but that doesn't mean the movement isn't necessary.
Honestly, rancorous people like yourself make me uneasy about associating myself with this movement. You seem to be fueled by anger, not a desire for equality.
If I as an individual did exactly ONE good thing that benefited the whole world, would it excuse me for committing a lifetime of crime?
Likewise feminism may have made 1 or 2 contributions that helped a particular group as a whole does that excuse them demonizing another group for the next 50 years?
The answer in both cases is no.
Oh they have, and almost always at the expense of men.
Excuse me, let me correct myself:
What does modern age feminism do right?
Feminism is a mental disorder.
[+][deleted] 12 years ago* (16 children) | Copy Link
[–]SJW_Scum 18 points19 points20 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
All feminists? No. A feminist? Many. They will never use the phrase "man up" per se. But they will write in circles to state it without saying it. You'll often see entire paragraphs which can be very accurately distilled down to those two words.
[–]RubixCubeDonut 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
A really good example of saying "man up" without actually literally saying "man up" is in the shrinking minority of men in education. The conclusion that's publicly trotted out is that boys just need to try harder. This is just another way of saying they should "man up" ; or rather, "it doesn't matter why it's happening, nobody cares, stop crying and/or complaining, just do what's expected of you".
[–][deleted] 15 points16 points17 points 12 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
It is a common shaming tactic that you are not "man enough" to handle "x".
[+][deleted] 12 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
those people you are referring to aren't feminist.
You are making a massive assumption that :
We can't look at the top 5% most intelligent feminists and claim all of them act / think that way.
Essentially, if you can't contest my definition of feminist than the rest of your argument falls through.
Your definition is flawed and assumes every feminist is the same.
I could just as easily "define" redditors as fedora wearing cat lovers and then make statements that depend on that definition. This doesn't make them correct.
[–]StarsDie 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
The area in which I have seen feminists routinely tell men to "man up" or something of the sort, is when the topic of legal paternal surrender is brought up.
I challenge you to argue in favor of legal paternal surrender with a self-identified feminist and see the reactions they give you.
[–]StarsDie 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Sounds a bit like no true scotsman.
But regardless; there certainly seems to be an issue with people calling themselves feminists and not acting in a way that you approve of. If you don't think there is, again, I challenge you to go out and test the hypothesis for yourself to see what I mean.
"What legal paternal surrender does is reinforce the idea that women should be mothers and domesticated"
I don't follow you here...
[–]StarsDie 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
"which you have yet to objectively present besides point to "common knowledge" of who self-proclaimed feminists are"
My definition of "feminist" is anyone who calls themself a feminist.
"To clarify, legal paternal surrender is when the father is forced to give up custody of children to the mother, right?"
Nope. LPS is men having the right to decide not to be a father before a child is born if they so desire. To surrender their paternity; which would ultimately allow them to not be tied down into paying child support for 18 years.
Reproductive rights for men. It's similar to safe haven, abortion and adoption rights for women.
When the idea of LPS has been brought up with self-proclaimed feminists, I have almost seen a unanimous call for men to "man up" and either be the father or pay child support. That if they didn't want a kid, they should have kept it in their pants. Ironically coming from people who are able to see the bigotry when pro-lifers tell women to keep it in their pants if they don't want kids.
[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I've witnessed people who describe as feminists doing this multiple times.
[–]Ripowal1 -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
And I've had several MRAs on this very sub tell me some variation of man up/your balls haven't dropped/your mom has your balls in her purse. Would like me to claim that this is representative of the MRM, or can we all be rational?
[+]johnny_gunn -7 points-6 points-5 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
How's Men's Rights works: sit around bitching about feminism.
[+]knightedchaos -6 points-5 points-4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Blind hate towards a whole group is unwarranted, if you'd like to cite specific actions that have caused you alarm and you feel they should be addressed in some manner please bring them forward. Otherwise you are just giving MRMs a bad name.
[+][deleted] 12 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]nigglereddit 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
I have looked into it, in fact I've done some work in it. I never met, nor met anyone who had met, a girl or woman who had been forced into it and I'm at a loss to imagine how this could be achieved.
[–]nigglereddit 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Wouldn't holding their family hostage be incredibly expensive and illegal? You'd have to pay huge numbers of criminal "staff" to run enormous illegal detention centers to hold, feed and maintain the huge number of families involved.
I've heard the passports one too. Again, since no passport is required to go to the police or have a customer report it - not all johns are monsters, most are simply guys who can't or don't want to obtain sex in other ways - I can't see how the criminals could prevent a full blown raid within weeks.
The reality is that reddit alone has dozens of subs which are filled to bursting every day with photos and stories from girls who don't just share sex and sexuality with strangers, they do it for free. The idea that no woman would willingly work in the sex industry is clearly nonsense.
And lastly, the real world evidence is flatly against the trafficking theory. Here in the UK a few years ago, they ran a huge inter agency operation against sex trafficking involving the police, intelligence services and social work departments. In six months they didn't find a single woman who had been forced into the sex trade and no one who had trafficked women for sex. But despite this, we are still told that thousands or millions of innocent girls are trafficked here for sex every year.
As you say, lies from liars.
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Nope. They simply say that the girls are only doing it because men brainwashed them into being our sexual objects. They can't simply fathom that a woman with no other skills would possibly spread her legs for money.
[–]ZorbaTHut 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Or especially that a woman with other skills would.
[+]MsNerevarine -7 points-6 points-5 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This is so dumb. Feminism is about equality. That's all. Stop the unnecessary hate and get the fuck over yourself.
[–]StarsDie 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago* (8 children) | Copy Link
"you're spewing hatred against a large group of people who are striving for equality for everyone, including men."
The problem being of course, that they aren't actually doing anything for men (even if some of them want to actually do things for men). And in fact the feminists who are actually achieving things out in the real world, are the ones like Mary P. Koss who conduct studies that erase male victims of rape, as seen here: http://www.genderratic.com/p/836/manufacturing-female-victimhood-and-marginalizing-vulnerable-men/
The feminists that actually do things out in the real world (and don't just say they want good things for men too on a blog that no one reads), were the ones that supported and pushed through the tender years doctrine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tender_years_doctrine
The feminists that actually do things out in the real world (and don't just say they want good things for men too on a blog that no one reads), are the ones who are actively trying to take away due process on college campuses and are pushing for draconian measures against the accused: http://www.cotwa.info/2013/09/yales-sex-policy-illustrates-problem.html
The feminists that actually do things out in the real world (and don't just say they want good things for men too on blogs that no one reads), are the ones who opposed the idea of a male birth control pill hitting the market on the basis that men can't be trusted to take the pill: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JymN5yu-K_o
The feminists that actually do things out in the real world (and don't just say they want good things for men too on a blog that no one reads), are the ones who push fraudulent statistics about domestic abuse to make it seem as if it is largely male-on-female when domestic violence isn't gendered: http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2/V74-gender-symmetry-with-gramham-Kevan-Method%208-.pdf
In short, the feminists who actually DO THINGS, happen to be man-haters. If the vanguard of any movement that I happened to be a part of did things this egregious, I would stop identifying with that movement. I would drop that label and find a new term, one that was more humanitarian to describe myself and my egalitarian views. Because if I decided to hold onto that label, and made excuses for those actions or became an apologist for those actions, then I would be providing cover for those actions and allowing for those actions to continue.
[+][deleted] 12 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
[–]StarsDie 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link
"I work in DV centers that cater to men."
Which ones? Is it funded by the government? Any info about it, like a phone number? If it's legit, I'm sure the people here would love to know about it as there are plenty who have experienced domestic violence.
You may have heard of Earl Silverman, who recently committed suicide after years of trying to get domestic violence shelters funded by the government in Canada; but was routinely denied resources for it.
"You can't deny that having a penis automatically gives you some type of privilege in this world"
In the United States, I do not believe that having a penis automatically gives a person "privilege".
"In working with DV and sexual assault survivors, I can tell you that the vast majority are women"
Of course this doesn't take into account the fact that men and boys are (in some studies) up to about 4 times less likely than women and girls to admit to having been sexually abused, and are similarly less likely to admit to having been abused in any way. When such things are ignored, of course it's going to seem like women and girls are the majority of the victims.
Some good info about domestic violence for you to ponder:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lHmCN3MBMI
http://www.csulb.edu/~mfiebert/assault.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlFAd4YdQks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhXfeBFATHw
I also suggest reading that Murray Straus pdf I linked.
[–]StarsDie 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
"it's really easy to believe that you don't have an advantage over others when you haven't been personally overlooked because of your genitals."
The same could be said to you.
And had you watched the videos I had linked to you, you'd know that being overlooked is something men can experience due to being men. It doesn't really get any more cut and dry than the studies that are cited in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lHmCN3MBMI
The difference between your claims that women are discriminated against and overlooked based on gender and my claims of men being discriminated against and overlooked based on gender... Is that I've actually provided some evidence for my claims. Objective readers take note of this.
It's very easy for you to say that women are discriminated against and not provide any evidence for it except your say-so and your subjective experiences (the plural of anecdote isn't data). It's easy because all your life you probably haven't been taken to task on this claim. People roll over to it without challenging it. And if they have challenged it, you know you win in societies eyes because your position would be defended by majority rule regardless of whether or not you provide evidence for your claim. It's why you don't feel compelled to actually provide any evidence. You know that society sides with you and you can go on living your life without worrying about that teeny-tiny minority bugging you because they are largely silenced by everyone.
Thanks for the phone number.
[–]StarsDie 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
"I'm not denying that. The difference is that women's roles traditionally go with having less power and being submissive."
The passive role often is a source of power: http://www.avoiceformen.com/men/mens-issues/feminine-surrender-as-emotional-dominance/
http://www.avoiceformen.com/women/domestication-of-the-human-male/
"I'm not linking to evidence because there's a difference between studies and real life"
Studies actually take into account experiences that aren't your own. I can see how that can be worthy of dismissal for some people.
[–]sillymod 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Modqueue brought me here, but I just wanted to say - best retort ever!
"Studies actually take into account experiences that aren't your own."
That is gold, man.
You can't deny that having a penis automatically gives you some type of privilege in this world.
The hell we can't.
© TheRedArchive 2026. All rights reserved.created by /u/dream-hunter
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[–]fukuaneveryoneuknow -3 points-2 points-1 points (2 children) | Copy Link
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[–]fukuaneveryoneuknow -2 points-1 points0 points (0 children) | Copy Link
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[–]seductivestain -3 points-2 points-1 points (1 child) | Copy Link
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[–]stk0101-1 points [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]seductivestain 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[+]vocivferou -2 points-1 points0 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Jennazn 38 points39 points40 points (33 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points (29 children) | Copy Link
[–]matt_512 15 points16 points17 points (26 children) | Copy Link
[–]fukuaneveryoneuknow -1 points0 points1 point (24 children) | Copy Link
[+][deleted] -7 points-6 points-5 points (23 children) | Copy Link
[–]fukuaneveryoneuknow 3 points4 points5 points (22 children) | Copy Link
[+][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points (20 children) | Copy Link
[–]fukuaneveryoneuknow -3 points-2 points-1 points (19 children) | Copy Link
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[–]PIBagent 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
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[–]fukuaneveryoneuknow -4 points-3 points-2 points (15 children) | Copy Link
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[–]BesottedScot 19 points20 points21 points (8 children) | Copy Link
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[–]addscontext5261 0 points1 point2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
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[–]seductivestain -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]ebonlance 31 points32 points33 points (41 children) | Copy Link
[–]Alzael 47 points48 points49 points (30 children) | Copy Link
[–]ebonlance 16 points17 points18 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]Alzael 11 points12 points13 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]chewinchawingum 4 points5 points6 points (2 children) | Copy Link
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[–]chewinchawingum 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Pecanpig -3 points-2 points-1 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Ripowal1 17 points18 points19 points (23 children) | Copy Link
[–]XWindX 7 points8 points9 points (7 children) | Copy Link
[–]Ripowal1 10 points11 points12 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]XWindX -3 points-2 points-1 points (4 children) | Copy Link
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[–]XWindX 1 point2 points3 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]Alzael -5 points-4 points-3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Alzael -5 points-4 points-3 points (13 children) | Copy Link
[–]Ripowal1 3 points4 points5 points (12 children) | Copy Link
[–]Alzael 1 point2 points3 points (11 children) | Copy Link
[–]dlouwe 0 points1 point2 points (10 children) | Copy Link
[–]Alzael 1 point2 points3 points (7 children) | Copy Link
[–]dlouwe 1 point2 points3 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]Alzael -1 points0 points1 point (5 children) | Copy Link
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[–]hecter 6 points7 points8 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]ebonlance 8 points9 points10 points (0 children) | Copy Link
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[–]ebonlance 6 points7 points8 points (3 children) | Copy Link
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[–]Stankmonger -3 points-2 points-1 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]shut_up_dood -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 18 points19 points20 points (19 children) | Copy Link
[–]Tammylan 4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]AtheistConservative 5 points6 points7 points (3 children) | Copy Link
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[–]Pecanpig 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]MockingDead -3 points-2 points-1 points (7 children) | Copy Link
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[–]Pecanpig -3 points-2 points-1 points (0 children) | Copy Link
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[–]FigNinja 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]BesottedScot 1 point2 points3 points (2 children) | Copy Link
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[–]BesottedScot -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]JudgeWhoAllowsStuff -1 points0 points1 point (1 child) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Alzael -3 points-2 points-1 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]fukuaneveryoneuknow -8 points-7 points-6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]addscontext5261 -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Blurgas 5 points6 points7 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]TerriChris 6 points7 points8 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]AtheistConservative 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]nathanpaulyoung 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]fukuaneveryoneuknow 4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]anachronic 0 points1 point2 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]Pecanpig 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]anachronic -1 points0 points1 point (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Pecanpig 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
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[–]anachronic -1 points0 points1 point (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]headless_bourgeoisie 1 point2 points3 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]vipt84 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]headless_bourgeoisie 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]justconsume 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]MaleMattersUSA 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]VideoLinkBot 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
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[–]chavelah 4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]lockedge 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]offthetwig -3 points-2 points-1 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]fukuaneveryoneuknow 4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Pecanpig 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]True_Whit -5 points-4 points-3 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]crazyex 9 points10 points11 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]fukuaneveryoneuknow 5 points6 points7 points (1 child) | Copy Link
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[–]Pecanpig 4 points5 points6 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]AtheistConservative 5 points6 points7 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]SilencingNarrative -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
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[–]crazyex 5 points6 points7 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Pecanpig 7 points8 points9 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[+]Arqideus -10 points-9 points-8 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]fukuaneveryoneuknow 5 points6 points7 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]StarsDie 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
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[+]harryballsagna -8 points-7 points-6 points (10 children) | Copy Link
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[+]harryballsagna -9 points-8 points-7 points (8 children) | Copy Link
[–]fukuaneveryoneuknow 4 points5 points6 points (6 children) | Copy Link
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[–]fukuaneveryoneuknow 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]harryballsagna 1 point2 points3 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]PIBagent 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]fukuaneveryoneuknow 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
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[–]SJW_Scum 18 points19 points20 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]RubixCubeDonut 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
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[–]StarsDie 0 points1 point2 points (5 children) | Copy Link
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[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics 5 points6 points7 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Ripowal1 -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]johnny_gunn -7 points-6 points-5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]knightedchaos -6 points-5 points-4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
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[–]nigglereddit 3 points4 points5 points (3 children) | Copy Link
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[–]ZorbaTHut 5 points6 points7 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]MsNerevarine -7 points-6 points-5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
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[–]StarsDie 2 points3 points4 points (8 children) | Copy Link
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[–]StarsDie 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]sillymod 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]PIBagent 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link