How feminism works | MensRights

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[+]fukuaneveryoneuknow -14 points-13 points-12 points 12 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

That last sentence indicates just how ignorant of the whole situation you are.

There are no women involved, there are people aligned to ideology.

straw women

And fuck you, you motherfucking sack of shit.

"straw"

Right

"If life is to survive on this planet, there must be a decontamination of the Earth. I think this will be accompanied by an evolutionary process that will result in a drastic reduction of the population of males." --Mary Daly, former Professor at Boston College, 2001.

"The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race." -- Sally Miller Gearhart, in The Future - If There Is One - Is Female.

"I feel that 'man-hating' is an honorable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them." -- Robin Morgan, Ms. Magazine Editor.

"I haven't the faintest notion what possible revolutionary role white hetero- sexual men could fulfill, since they are the very embodiment of reactionary- vested-interest-power. But then, I have great difficulty examining what men in general could possibly do about all this. In addition to doing the shitwork that women have been doing for generations, possibly not exist? No, I really don't mean that. Yes, I really do." -- Robin Morgan

"I want to see a man beaten to a bloody pulp with a high-heel shoved in his mouth, like an apple in the mouth of a pig." -- Andrea Dworkin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GEm8XaV8rY :: Feminists attempting to forcibly silence MRM voices

Pizzey has been the subject of death threats and boycotts because of her statement that most domestic violence is reciprocal, and that women are equally as capable of violence as men. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erin_Pizzey :: Death threats to feminists who go against the dogmatic grain.

http://prospect.org/article/toxic-masculinity :: the demonizing of masculinity and maleness

The tip of the iceberg.

But as I said to another femicunt here, what gets me is how you johnny come lately shit stains with all your ignorance have the gall to tell us anything.

Many MRAs are MRAs because of the actions of feminists, because they got tired of being mistreated and tired of the hypocrisy, the stubbornness, the bigotry passed off as benevolence.

go fuck yourself

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[–]Jesus_marley2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Feminism is an ideology based upon hate. Criticizing such an ideology is not only beneficial to society as a whole, but is necessary if we are to expunge such a message. It appears to me that you are making the same error that many people do when talking about feminism as an ideology, and expanding criticism beyond it to include women as a group. That conflation of feminism and women is a dangerous one and is a tactic that many feminists use to justify theopposition to our movement.

That said, feminist ideology enjoys a lock on the victim narrative and as such is able to utilize that narrative dishonestly but portraying any opposition as an attack on itself or as an individual on themselves by using the above stated feminist\woman conflation.

It isn't necessary for the MRM to demonize feminism. Feminism has done a fantastic job of that all by itself. Feminist leaders, quoted spewing their hate filled ideological tripe is a matter of public record. just look at the recent MR rally in Toronto. Listen to the speeches by the attendees and compare that to the threats, lies and baseless accusations levelled against them by the feminist protestors. That chart isn't demonizing anyone. It is holding up a light to the true face of feminist hate ideology and bigotry.

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You're an idiot.

Women have not been oppressed, that's just fucking nonsense. Take your lying shit elsewhere. They couldn't vote until early C20th? Fuck off, men couldn't vote either you fool. In the UK women under 30 got the vote in 1918. That Act also gave young men over 21 the right to vote, even if they didn't own property which was formerly the case.

Why the age difference? Because so many men were fucking DEAD and they couldn't say to returning soldiers that they were old enough to fight, but not to vote. That's right: most of the soldiers in WW1 didn't have the vote.

Over 1.2m of them were killed, from the UK alone. Dead.

Let me emphasise that for you, you fucking prick: DEAD.

That's dead as in, not fucking ALIVE.

That's dead as in "Go to fucking war, or we'll hang you."

According to you, these 'oppressors' were trotting off to war to, er, defend those they were 'oppressing'!? So like, the masters were getting killed to protect their slaves were they? Jesus, you must be able to believe any amount of shit if you swallow that bollocks.

Does this look like oppression? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1915_Women_of_Britain,_say_Go!.jpg

What about these cunts, do they look fucking oppressed?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_feather

"The White Feather Campaign aimed to shame men into enlisting in the British Army by persuading women to present them with a white feather if they were not wearing a uniform. It was joined by prominent feminists and suffragettes of the time, such as Emmeline Pankhurst and her daughter Christabel. They, in addition to handing out the feathers, also lobbied to institute an involuntary draft of men, including those who lacked votes due to being too young or not owning property."

Does that sound like these women were subjugated to you?

Prick.

[–]Das_Mime1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]VortexCortex 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

The simple fact is, if you were living a hundred years ago in a society where women were by default considered inferior, and you were trying to win equal rights for women, it makes perfect sense to call that movement "feminism".

Or, maybe if you were a Marxist, and were applying Marxism to Gender to get twice as many workers while not freeing the family to choose who gets to raise the kids, you might take the word Communist, and make it sound more Feminine so the females you're trying to convince are oppressed will be more receptive to it.

Female + Communism = Feminism.

You know, because that's how Engels invented it... Not based on any evidence, but on untested hypotheses about social speculations.

Through a Marxist historical perspective, Engels analyzes the widespread social phenomena associated with female sexual morality, such as fixation on virginity and sexual purity, incrimination and violent punishment of women who commit adultery, and demands that women be submissive to their husbands. Ultimately, Engels traces these phenomena to the recent development of exclusive control of private property by the patriarchs of the rising slaveowner class in the ancient mode of production, [...]

It's all a bunch of marxist garbage, and Feminists have been duped. Note that "recent" part... Not all of history. Recent. Guess the Radical Feminists conveniently forgot that part when they were adding Patriarchy Theory to Marxist Feminism (look to the edit history of that section... interesting shit), or maybe it was the 3rd wave feminists who forgot, when they were extending the Marxist umbrella to all issues of gender? Or maybe Engels contradicted himself when he stated differently in one of his books, you know, because his theory wasn't based on facts, but on speculative BS.

It's all the same untested, unscientific, Marxist garbage. Want proof? Kyriarchy Theory says what? Kyriarchy, "rule by a lord", is what's oppressive, not just Patriarchy (women can hurt women too). What's Marxist Communism again? The elite rulers are oppressing the proletariat? Ah, yeah. It's the communist manifesto reborn.

I like your use of the word "fact" there. It shows how ignorant you are about that shit you think you know all about.

Now, it's feminists, like Marry Koss of the CDC, who are erasing male victims and female perpetrators of abuse and rape, and since abuse and rape are cyclic in nature (most abusers / rapists were abused themselves), the feminists are creating more female victims (and male victims, etc, etc). So, that's the main reason why I fucking hate feminism. Because I'm a scientist, and also because Feminism does the exact opposite of what they claim it does.

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[+]MrConventional 12 years ago* [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

Confusing extremist sects of any social construct as representing anyone other than its own extremist threat is nothing more than willful ignorance.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]MrConventional1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

This is a community of people who seek to foster an atmosphere of thoughtfulness, empowerment, diversity, inspiration, and positivity in the societal progression of men. No one here cares for the ramblings you regurgitate from headlines of conspiracy theory extremists.

Your attempts to lie and pretend only fool yourself. You have made it extremely apparent you possess no knowledgeable of any topical social movement. Your failed attempts to argue on any point outright betray your total ignorance. Instead of giving me any dumb bitch excuses as to your complete and total failure to educate yourself, step up to the plate and try to familiarize yourself with the basics.

No one needs to hear your teenage bitch excuses for justifying your willful resistance to learning about the topics the MRM engages in. In order for your to ever engage in any degree of meaningful communication (intra-group or inter-group) you need to establish a basic grasp of what is being discussed. You have demonstrated your complete lack of topical knowledge. Attempting to regurgitating what extremists have pre-packaged in sensationalist headlines does not credit you in any way whatsoever. When you begin to research matters pertaining to what concerns us as a community, the challenge you will face then becomes successfully communicating knowledge, discerning reliability of data, and pursuing greater resources in pursuit of deeper topical understanding.

Succumbing to paranoia by effect of rage fueled insecurity has no value to anyone concerning any topic you may attempt to ramble about. Propagating your emotionally inadequacy has no place in the MRM and makes us all look bad by your self-ascribed association. By the nature of your behavior, you show yourself to be the liability that makes the subculture of MRM look like the psychotic extremist fringe elements of the feminist social movement.

You will benefit tremendously from seeking counsel with a coach in touch with your struggles as a man who society has failed horribly. You may have luck in finding a mentor capable of guiding you towards behavioral and intellectual stability through the very efforts we in the MRM support. Your ability to mature and progress may be limited by apparent psychological obstacles, but if you hope to eventually prove benefit to the MRM you need to invest all efforts in besting your shortcomings. In interest of your potential future benefit to the MRM, I hope you discover a means to better promote empowerment without embarrassing yourself. Good luck.

[+]Hypersapien -7 points-6 points-5 points 12 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

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[+]zabby39103 12 years ago [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link

That's what many feminists say about men's rights. Almost word for word. Guess we've learned nothing. You've turned into every problem that reasonable people have with feminists. Are rights groups destined to devolve into hateful circlejerks? This thread seriously makes me sad.

[–]Pecanpig 11 points12 points13 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[+]zabby39103 12 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

Only the most extreme hateful people oppose broad statements like men's rights or women's rights. Feminists say the exactly same thing about rights for men. Exactly the same.

We tear ourselves to pieces on the details.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]zabby39103 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Right. Apparently "fighting back" means telling people sympathetic to your cause to "grow the fuck up" (and in another thread you're calling for me to be banned). I'm sure that's how you win the hearts and minds of people and advance your cause. You aren't interested in changing anyone's mind, you just like your hateful little circlejerk.

I'm trying to advance a more moderate point of view. I'm trying to make an argument for what I believe is the best form of Men's Rights. If people don't like it they can downvote me.

Almost everyone supports the basic principles of Men's Rights in regards to family law, equality etc., but they are turned off because people like you say something hateful and ridiculous and that's what hits the media. There are good, convincing arguments to be made. Picking the most radical feminist quotes and making a hateful caricature out of feminists isn't helpful to making those arguments. All it does it make you feel good and alienates everyone else. Hating people isn't constructive, there are reasons people believe what they believe and you don't change minds by hating people. I'm not saying I have NO problem with feminism - far from it - I just want to see the better form of the argument.

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[–]anachronic 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Why would 100% of them have to be man haters? That is a bizarre and unrealistic standard.

They, as a group, push man-hating legislation. Feminists oppose equal custody. They oppose alimony reform. They want to remove due process protections from men. They want to ignore the areas in which men struggle. Do 100% believe this? No. Does 100% of the leadership in the feminist movement? Yes.

Dishonest hacks like you demand that we ignore the entire leadership of the feminist movement in favor of a few powerless people who say nice things on the internet.

Tell me, who runs this country? Barack Obama, or some dude pumping gas in the local 7-11? Because to hear you tell it, when judging American policy, the actions and thoughts of that convenience store clerk should matter every bit as much as those of the President of the United States.

Because you are a fucking idiot.

[–]Alzael 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[+]MrConventional 12 years ago* [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link

You are an embarassment to this sub.

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[+]fukuaneveryoneuknow -6 points-5 points-4 points 12 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link

So, by that logic, does men's rights oppose feminism?

Yes, yes we do.

If you have ANY meaningful regard for men or their rights you recognize feminism for what it is, a hate movement.

Also - you do realize that feminism is a HUGE and vague concept that's undergone numerous waves and has about a thousand sub-disciplines under it.

Once again

Praise feminism, it's "one group" of "good" people who "only want equality".

Criticize feminism and all of the sudden its a non-descript amorphous blob and how dare you dislike, much less disagree with feminists, obviously you hate women and have a small penis.

To criticize and hate all feminists just because there's a vocal minority of psycho man-hating ones is ludicrous... that's about as crazy as suggesting that all men are rapists.

One of these things is not like the other!

Can you even differentiate ideology and sex/gender(or whatever fucking convoluted twice re-described term people are using)?

Feminism is an ideology consisting of two primary kinds of people.

The useful idiots who contribute nothing negative(besides the whole acting as an accountability shield for people so fucking bigoted they can be described as evil) or positive, and those that matter, the bigots.

fuck you femicunt.

[–]zabby39103 10 points11 points12 points 12 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

[+]fukuaneveryoneuknow -7 points-6 points-5 points 12 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

So someone disagrees with you and he's a "femicunt"?

If you think it's as simple as disagreement you don't understand whats even being said here.

Feminism and equality are completely and utterly opposed in every way.

Feminism is about equality like nazis are about zionism.

Day and night, black and white.

So, because I think ~~MRAs and~~ Feminists both have some good people and some valid points am I not welcome here?

Yes.

The whole MRA vs. Feminism thing that the more extreme members of this subreddit subscribe to is like a microcosm of what's going on in Washington.

"extreme" lol, right.

Extreme is being so dismissive of men, so without empathy for someone you believe it's impossible they could ever suffer in any way.

Extreme is referring to masculinity/femininity, something unavoidably integral to who different people are, things they can't change as toxic.

Extreme is advocating gendercide.

Extreme is sending death threats to people who don't jive with your dogmatism.

That's extreme, and that's what feminists are guilty of.

Eat shit femicunt.

[+]zabby39103 12 years ago [recovered] (11 children) | Copy Link

By your definition then, most men aren't welcome here. You want to change minds, or just hatefully circlejerk? Calling people femicunts changes as many minds as telling people they're rapists. You're everything you hate with the genders swapped. Sorry I'm not pure enough for you. Enjoy your downvotes.

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[+]MrConventional 12 years ago* [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

Your complete ignorance on the topics you attempt to engage in are nothing more than a stereotypical embarassment for everyone here. Until you mature to the point you're able to part your head from your ass and present a logical argument, your input will continue to negatively impact everything everyone here stands for. Grow up, kid.

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[–]anachronic1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]BesottedScot 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

You're not breaking any rules and as far as I can tell have a balanced view of the rights movement. What a lot of people - both sides by the way - don't seem to get is that the movements are (or at least, should be) about the exact same thing. Sexual equality for all sexes. It shouldn't just be He said she said (heh) but equality across the whole spectrum. The problem is cultural bias (yes it's there) and personal bias. Male female sexism (or vice versa) is rampant, ingrained and pretty damn hard to get rid of. It's a sad fact but it's true. Nobody's perfect and neither side is. The fact is that many get bogged down in the 'males get this' 'females get that'. There's inequalities on both sides of the fence and unless much more is done by both parties it's going to continually circlejerk.

The ideal world would be 'uni-ism', where mra and fra are one party, but that's a perfect world.

[–]addscontext52611 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[+]RomanticGoat -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[+]fukuaneveryoneuknow -6 points-5 points-4 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

"If life is to survive on this planet, there must be a decontamination of the Earth. I think this will be accompanied by an evolutionary process that will result in a drastic reduction of the population of males." --Mary Daly, former Professor at Boston College, 2001.

"The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race." -- Sally Miller Gearhart, in The Future - If There Is One - Is Female.

"I haven't the faintest notion what possible revolutionary role white hetero- sexual men could fulfill, since they are the very embodiment of reactionary- vested-interest-power. But then, I have great difficulty examining what men in general could possibly do about all this. In addition to doing the shitwork that women have been doing for generations, possibly not exist? No, I really don't mean that. Yes, I really do." -- Robin Morgan

Prominent feminists advocating and promoting gendercide and hate of men.

Feminists who when brought up, are touted as "not true feminists".

Logically fallacy and cognitive dissonance are the base of feminist thought.

[+]RomanticGoat 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[+]fukuaneveryoneuknow -6 points-5 points-4 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

This would be like using radical/violent black rights leaders to condem anyone asking for black rights.

This is a false comparison and one that shows you have little knowledge about civil rights as well.

Non-violent civil rights leaders relied on people accepting them over people like Malcolm X because they knew that if they backed even men like MLK far enough into a corner they would have no choice but to take the violent route.

Other civil rights activists also didn't compartmentalize their desire for equal rights with their empathy for people like Malcolm.

They understood fully, but decided against that route.

You also can't pretend feminists have ever faced even half the hardship civil rights activists did...just my god...stop right there.

do you support the equal treatment of all people regardless of sex? Just a yes or a no will suffice.

Yes, to which you respond with the typical canned response of "well you're a feminist".

You're not the first hypocrite I've met.

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I totally understand. It's incredibly easy for women in general to lapse into puddles of this sort of 'justified' rage against men in general as well. This is where you get the 'feminists' who want to totally wipe out the masculine. But feminist haters are really just their own version of (insert rage induced slurs here) showing up and telling people they're 'bad for fighting back against their enemies.' Both genders have put each other through a lot of misery across time. Humans are good at that, they don't even gender discriminate when it comes to fucking others over! But the point is, we can puddle like this in our age old rages, or we can actually strive to reach across, pull each other up and out, and try. Really, there's so much shit on each side for so long, that probably all any of us can actually do is try. I know your rage. We all have our rage, our lovely, truth fueled rage. The only thing that is better than giving into it and tasting it to its hot metal core is looking beyond it because we know it's what keeps the hate alive.

[–]fukuaneveryoneuknow -4 points-3 points-2 points 12 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

I totally understand.

No, you don't. At all.

It's incredibly easy for women in general to lapse into puddles of this sort of 'justified' rage against men in general as well.

You're gonna need a lot more quotes for justified.

Both genders have put each other through a lot of misery across time. Humans are good at that, they don't even gender discriminate when it comes to fucking others over! But the point is, we can puddle like this in our age old rages, or we can actually strive to reach across, pull each other up and out, and try. Really, there's so much shit on each side for so long, that probably all any of us can actually do is try. I know your rage. We all have our rage, our lovely, truth fueled rage. The only thing that is better than giving into it and tasting it to its hot metal core is looking beyond it because we know it's what keeps the hate alive.

what the fuck is this non-sense?

Some sort of relativist bullshit?

Unlike your pathetic femicunt indignation men and MRAs have legitimate provable gripes against feminism.

the MRM exists almost entirely because of the negative impact feminism has had on men.

feminism since its inception exists to benefit women over men.

Whether it's voting "rights" without the responsibility men have, or drafting policies and laws that direclty discriminate against men.

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Logic should be formally taught in public schools. Perhaps then people could learn to present arguments while sparing themselves such embarassment

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No, you mostly just project your own reasonableness onto a movement that is, on the whole, unreasonable.

I don't give a fuck how you all act on the individual level -- this flow chart describes how you leaders act, and your leadership is who calls the shots. Your leaders are extremists, so it doesn't matter how many of you are reasonable at the individual level.

You do have to answer for your leaders, because they are your leaders. You have to answer for what you pressure the Democratic party into, which is extremist policies Dear Colleague and one-sided policies like the ACA, which gives a ton of free stuff to women at the cost of young men (who are in no position financially to be treated like your workhorses that way). You have to answer for NOW blocking child custody reform. You have to answer for the academics who call masculinity toxic and who advance notions like Schroedinger's Rapist.

This isn't about SRS or a some ex-girlfriend in college the way you feminists always like to pretend that it is. It's about the actual policies your movement puts into place. A movement deserves to be judged by its results, not it's intentions. Intentions lie, actions do not.

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While I largely agree with the sentiment, the hyberbole makes this seem pretty infantile and it isn't humorous enough to compensate for that fact. The whole family dog line in particular is just silly.

I'd like to see this flowchart again, using more prifessional language, cross-referenced with sources exhibiting the behavior you're alluding to (like the UoT protests, the call for a "mood watcher", examples of feminist literature making ridiculous stretches to blame perceived inequalities on the 'patriarchy', etc.)

It's also worth noting that many patriarchy-theory feminists don't argue that men don't suffer, but that we do and it is caused by the patriarchy. Your chart implies the opposite. Both are ridiculous notions obviously but it's important to correctly characterize the attacks on the MR movement.

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But they're still guesses.

Guesses based on evidence. Induction is not the same as juts making things up.

I'm just saying, you shouldn't go around claiming things as fact when you don't actually know.

You never know anything. You make the best claims with the facts you have.

Isn't this the same sub that gets riled up when the "alleged" is left off of the term "rapist" (and even "victim")? You don't get to call the kettle black, pot.

Probably best to ask one of the MRA's this.

It's unlikely, but since no conclusion about the dog shooter was ever reached, it's intellectually dishonest to say "feminists killed her dog" as if it's a fact.

Actually no, it wouldn't be. Assuming that the dog had died of course. A perfectly logical case can be made for saying that (though it might not be true) and there are facts to support such a conclusion (such as the death threats and bomb threats). It would only be intellectually dishonest if you purposefully ignored relevant facts and/or deliberately presented the facts in a misleading manner.

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The phrase "feminists shot her dog" is a statement of fact (I'm changing "killed" so we can stop using the disclaimer).

And as was pointed out, there are facts that support it. So the statement is reasonable to make. It is a conclusion supported by facts.

Bringing into doubt the idea of knowledge itself does not give you license to say something that has tangible uncertainty in a way that implies certainty.

I didn't bring into doubt the idea of knowledge. All I stated was the truth. 100% knowledge is impossible. So we follow the facts as best we can and make the conclusions we can with them. The facts that are available point to feminists being the ones who did it. So the claim is reasonable to make. Is it definitive, naturally not, however that is where the evidence leads. So unless you have contrary evidence to present, the claims stands.

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I consider myself to be a feminist (I care about rights for women). But I also consider myself as someone who cares about men's rights. If you'd rather call that egalitarian go ahead I'm not too concerned with semantics.

Why not use the word Egalitarian, then? Feminists are horrible people who belong to a cult of man-hating shrews. So, it's not semantics.

Just as there are varying degrees of severity/irrational thinking with any group of people, so it is with feminists.

NAFALT. I direct your attention to [this].(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQWoNhrY_fM)

I joined this sub to get a male perspective of men's rights but most of what I see is just feminist bashing.

Ah, code red. Well, we love us soem concern trolling, don't we?

It's kind of frustrating and really off-putting for someone who came onto the scene hoping to learn and discuss. It makes me feel that I'm not welcome here and it doesn't seem too conducive to constructive dialogue about issues that concern both men AND women.

Boo hoo. Maybe you feel unwelcome because feminists are not pandered to here. You are welcome to discuss, but we won't coddle you.

And I don't see you discussing anything in Men's rights. All I see is you whining about your feels. If you have something relevant to discuss, discuss it. Otherwise, jog on.

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If you'd rather call that egalitarian

I call it an oxymoron.

As well as a hypocrite.

makes me feel that I'm not welcome here

Well, if you align yourself with the enemies of the rights of men...guess whose friend you're not.

And dare I say men's rights activists too?

Like that time those MRAs issued death threats to that one MRA who disagreed with a popular MRM opinion...oh wait.

No, ok, here we go.

How about when that prominent MRA advocated gendercide against women..er hold on..that..didn't happen.

Cutting the facetiousness, fuck you, don't pretend for even a moment the shit feminism has done to men and MRAs is on par with simply being opposed to feminism.

it doesn't seem too conducive to constructive dialogue about issues that concern both men AND women.

You mean like every feminist discussion ever?

Also

makes me feel that I'm not welcome here

The biggest difference you'll notice between the MRM and feminism here on reddit atleast, is who is and isn't banned.

What gets removed and what doesn't.

It wasn't so long ago one of the feminist subs explicitly stated in the rules non-feminist aligned comments that got upvoted would be removed.

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Here is a list of video links collected from comments that redditors have made in response to this submission:

Source Comment	Score	Video Link
StarsDie	3	Domestic Violence Against Men! Mirror
StarsDie	3	Reaction To Women Abusing Men In Public
StarsDie	3	Male Victims of Domestic Violence - The Hidden Story
StarsDie	3	Dr Coutinho, the feminists and the male contraceptive pill
jealson	2	The Manhood Academy Cult EXPOSED!
stk0101	2	Debating A Closet Feminist
vocivferou	1	Debating an Academic Feminist ...ANOTHER RAGEQUIT!
MockingDead	-1	NAFALT!!!!1!!1!
fukuaneveryoneuknow	-13	University of Toronto - Agents of Misandry Versus Freedom of Speech documentary

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I've been browsing both r/feminism and r/mensrights for some time because I'm curious about the debate.

r/feminism wouldn't upvote crap like this. You have to be careful not to turn people you disagree with into caricatures. This is just as bad as people saying MRAs are fascist rape apologists.

It's easy to cherry pick the worst of either side to win your argument and reinforce your beliefs. It feels good. But since I assume most of you are straight white guys who feel they have been unfairly portrayed, I would have thought you guys would have learned a thing or two about that. I guess we've learned nothing. Shame.

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If you think that, you have no historical knowledge of women's plights

Thank you feminism for giving women the "right" to vote with none of the responsibility(draft/conscription).

Thank you for telling me how "toxic" my masculinity is.

Thank you for drafting laws and policies all cross the first world that directly discriminate against men.

Thank you for such gems as "a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle".

Thank you for all those male reproductive rights.

Thank you for claiming to be about equality but totally ignoring men.

Thank you for dusting generations of male rape victims under the rug.

Thank you for the shame.

Thank you for the hate.

Thank you for the censorship.

Thank you for ending MGM.

Thank you for saying that the biggest discrimination in business is that women are payed less due to discrimination(not really) while men take all the hardest and most dangerous jobs making up the overwhelming job deaths.

Thank you for ending male disposability.

Thank you for addressing male suicide and depression.

Thank you for ensuring women pull their weight in the military.

Thank you for letting me know how awful my sexuality is, especially if I'm heterosexual.

Thank you for neglecting men so much and making the situation so dire for so many men that among MRM groups having a suicide hotline available is standard and expected.

Thank you for a century of teaching me how sub human I am.

2+2=5

There are 5 lights.

War is peace freedom is slavery ignorance is strength!

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"which you have yet to objectively present besides point to "common knowledge" of who self-proclaimed feminists are"

My definition of "feminist" is anyone who calls themself a feminist.

"To clarify, legal paternal surrender is when the father is forced to give up custody of children to the mother, right?"

Nope. LPS is men having the right to decide not to be a father before a child is born if they so desire. To surrender their paternity; which would ultimately allow them to not be tied down into paying child support for 18 years.

Reproductive rights for men. It's similar to safe haven, abortion and adoption rights for women.

When the idea of LPS has been brought up with self-proclaimed feminists, I have almost seen a unanimous call for men to "man up" and either be the father or pay child support. That if they didn't want a kid, they should have kept it in their pants. Ironically coming from people who are able to see the bigotry when pro-lifers tell women to keep it in their pants if they don't want kids.

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[–]nigglereddit 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Wouldn't holding their family hostage be incredibly expensive and illegal? You'd have to pay huge numbers of criminal "staff" to run enormous illegal detention centers to hold, feed and maintain the huge number of families involved.

I've heard the passports one too. Again, since no passport is required to go to the police or have a customer report it - not all johns are monsters, most are simply guys who can't or don't want to obtain sex in other ways - I can't see how the criminals could prevent a full blown raid within weeks.

The reality is that reddit alone has dozens of subs which are filled to bursting every day with photos and stories from girls who don't just share sex and sexuality with strangers, they do it for free. The idea that no woman would willingly work in the sex industry is clearly nonsense.

And lastly, the real world evidence is flatly against the trafficking theory. Here in the UK a few years ago, they ran a huge inter agency operation against sex trafficking involving the police, intelligence services and social work departments. In six months they didn't find a single woman who had been forced into the sex trade and no one who had trafficked women for sex. But despite this, we are still told that thousands or millions of innocent girls are trafficked here for sex every year.

As you say, lies from liars.

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[–]StarsDie 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago* (8 children) | Copy Link

"you're spewing hatred against a large group of people who are striving for equality for everyone, including men."

The problem being of course, that they aren't actually doing anything for men (even if some of them want to actually do things for men). And in fact the feminists who are actually achieving things out in the real world, are the ones like Mary P. Koss who conduct studies that erase male victims of rape, as seen here: http://www.genderratic.com/p/836/manufacturing-female-victimhood-and-marginalizing-vulnerable-men/

The feminists that actually do things out in the real world (and don't just say they want good things for men too on a blog that no one reads), were the ones that supported and pushed through the tender years doctrine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tender_years_doctrine

The feminists that actually do things out in the real world (and don't just say they want good things for men too on a blog that no one reads), are the ones who are actively trying to take away due process on college campuses and are pushing for draconian measures against the accused: http://www.cotwa.info/2013/09/yales-sex-policy-illustrates-problem.html

The feminists that actually do things out in the real world (and don't just say they want good things for men too on blogs that no one reads), are the ones who opposed the idea of a male birth control pill hitting the market on the basis that men can't be trusted to take the pill: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JymN5yu-K_o

The feminists that actually do things out in the real world (and don't just say they want good things for men too on a blog that no one reads), are the ones who push fraudulent statistics about domestic abuse to make it seem as if it is largely male-on-female when domestic violence isn't gendered: http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2/V74-gender-symmetry-with-gramham-Kevan-Method%208-.pdf

In short, the feminists who actually DO THINGS, happen to be man-haters. If the vanguard of any movement that I happened to be a part of did things this egregious, I would stop identifying with that movement. I would drop that label and find a new term, one that was more humanitarian to describe myself and my egalitarian views. Because if I decided to hold onto that label, and made excuses for those actions or became an apologist for those actions, then I would be providing cover for those actions and allowing for those actions to continue.

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[–]StarsDie 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

"I work in DV centers that cater to men."

Which ones? Is it funded by the government? Any info about it, like a phone number? If it's legit, I'm sure the people here would love to know about it as there are plenty who have experienced domestic violence.

You may have heard of Earl Silverman, who recently committed suicide after years of trying to get domestic violence shelters funded by the government in Canada; but was routinely denied resources for it.

"You can't deny that having a penis automatically gives you some type of privilege in this world"

In the United States, I do not believe that having a penis automatically gives a person "privilege".

"In working with DV and sexual assault survivors, I can tell you that the vast majority are women"

Of course this doesn't take into account the fact that men and boys are (in some studies) up to about 4 times less likely than women and girls to admit to having been sexually abused, and are similarly less likely to admit to having been abused in any way. When such things are ignored, of course it's going to seem like women and girls are the majority of the victims.

Some good info about domestic violence for you to ponder:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lHmCN3MBMI

http://www.csulb.edu/~mfiebert/assault.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlFAd4YdQks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhXfeBFATHw

I also suggest reading that Murray Straus pdf I linked.

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[–]StarsDie 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

"it's really easy to believe that you don't have an advantage over others when you haven't been personally overlooked because of your genitals."

The same could be said to you.

And had you watched the videos I had linked to you, you'd know that being overlooked is something men can experience due to being men. It doesn't really get any more cut and dry than the studies that are cited in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lHmCN3MBMI

The difference between your claims that women are discriminated against and overlooked based on gender and my claims of men being discriminated against and overlooked based on gender... Is that I've actually provided some evidence for my claims. Objective readers take note of this.

It's very easy for you to say that women are discriminated against and not provide any evidence for it except your say-so and your subjective experiences (the plural of anecdote isn't data). It's easy because all your life you probably haven't been taken to task on this claim. People roll over to it without challenging it. And if they have challenged it, you know you win in societies eyes because your position would be defended by majority rule regardless of whether or not you provide evidence for your claim. It's why you don't feel compelled to actually provide any evidence. You know that society sides with you and you can go on living your life without worrying about that teeny-tiny minority bugging you because they are largely silenced by everyone.

Thanks for the phone number.

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Title	How feminism works
Author	HumpmeBogart
Upvotes	209
Comments	367
Date	October 2, 2013 2:48 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1nl2fb/how_feminism_works/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/how-feminism-works.1162327 https://theredarchive.com/post/1162327

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