CMV: Trying to improve your personality is even harder, more pointless than trying to improve your looks

wtknight · 2021-03-27T13:24:03+00:00

Removed due to replies from OP that are incel content.

OXOzymandias · 2021-03-27T04:39:31+00:00

I mean i think there is always room to improvement, that room is just not that big and wont transform you overnight, but yeah there is def room for slight improve, esp in terms confidence.

I am more confident, but i am still very much a loner lol. I can go out and and entertain normies, but i think my core self is tied to being an intro loner, i just developed a extro "persona" who fit me well i think. Thats my experience at least.

PlayfulLawyer · 2021-03-27T04:36:53+00:00

Depends on if you actually want to change it and why, I'm fairly introverted and I have no interest in changing that, but for example if somebody's default is to be an asshole, or being too nice being too aggressive, being cocky, whatever the case may be and they actually want to change it for the right reasons and not just attracting the opposite sex, it takes time but it can definitely be done

Novadina · 2021-03-27T04:33:26+00:00

I had some mental/social issues stemming from abuse I suffered as a kid. It sometimes caused me problems in my relationships. I got professional help and invested a lot of effort in fixing it, and after I started having much better friendships and relationships, and it helped my career vastly as well. Most people don’t even believe me if I say I suffered from issues like this.

Go to all the therapy you want. You are who you are. You think and behave the way you do in part because of the way your brain processes information, and in part due to how people have treated you in the past.

I did cognitive behavior therapy, which literally trains your brain to process information differently. I’m a strong proponent of it because of how much it helped me. I never imagined in a million years I’d ever be able to do the things I do socially, like open up to fully trusting someone, or at work, like leading large projects, but I’ve had people tell me I’m “naturally good” at it (not true - I learned it).

mechanical_elves · 2021-03-27T04:29:03+00:00

You can't change your entire personality but you can nudge it towards one thing or another with a lot of consistent effort.

If it really matters to you a lot, you can nudge it towards things women prefer, but think long and hard whether that's what you want to do with YOUR life.

PunjabiPakistani_ · 2021-03-27T04:24:45+00:00

Yeah, personality is generally formed early and quite resistant to change. You gotta learn to work with the personality you got.

StunningEstates · 2021-03-27T04:38:11+00:00

An introverted, cynical guy isn’t going to become an extroverted optimist just by wishing it was so.

I mean if that’s your definition of trying, then yeah.

It doesn’t happen overnight my man, nor is it easy. But if you actually want it, you’ll make it work.

flapperfemmefatale · 2021-03-27T04:38:23+00:00

Depends on which parts of the personality we're talking about (just like looks).

Washing your face is easy compared to plastic surgery.

Avoiding slurs is easy compared to going from introversion to extroversion.

justbeacaveman · 2021-03-27T08:00:20+00:00

Personality is more changeable than looks. If you can work hard to earn for plastic surgery, surely you can change your personality more with the same effort.

sweatyapplejuice · 2021-03-27T04:34:33+00:00

i agree, if your motivation for having a good personality is sex, just continue having a bad one so i can keep avoiding all of you.

edit: i am talking about aspects of a person's personality that indicate ethics and morals, not the "be alpha" shit that red pillers always say is what women want (it's not)

wtknight · 2021-03-27T10:40:06+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Learningtolove2021 · 2021-03-27T11:23:51+00:00

Interesting coincidence, I'm currently taking a personality theory class and I was just reading the chapter on personality change last night. While personality does change over the course of the life span (eg, conscientiousness tends to rise, neuroticism tends to lessen somewhat), individuals are remarkably consistent with their personalities from birth. Not only that, but your inborn personality affects how your parents and everyone else responds to you, creating either positive or negative feedback loops depending on your traits. So I mostly agree with you that personality is basically baked in from birth. However, if one has a strong desire to change and is willing to put in the work, improvement is possible. There is a lot of good science behind CBT helping people, and a lot of emerging evidence that psychedelics can be helpful in alleviating the depression that often comes with a less than sunny personality. I have to believe there is some hope or there is no point in continuing to live.

ThouWontThrowaway · 2021-03-27T04:56:48+00:00

If you don't want to improve there's really nothing anyone can say to change your opinion. Maybe you can't change your personality. Maybe the blackpillers are right and attraction is largely dependent on looks that your genetically disposed to....but maybe you can bang a hot 8 you met at the bar with beer goggles who only saw you in the dark but felt the confidence you gained from lifting and approaching and the strong body you had from gaining weight. Maybe you don't get 8-9s and usually get 5-7s but it's better than the 1-4s you got before you improved yourself. Maybe you haven't really changed but you needed the red pill to change your lack of romantic options to a life with more options so you could see obsessing about your romantic life wasn't healthy in the first place, you only had to because the women were gatekeeping romantic intimacy from you. Maybe that's why men are working so hard to improve themselves.

geyejoe7 · 2021-03-27T08:01:58+00:00

It's not. You can definitely improve traits that would make you a more likeable person. You CAN become more social.

All this "I'm an introvert" bs is so boring to listen to. I was told I was antisocial by my psychiatrist back when I was younger. So? I crushed my anxiety and overcame it.

These are things that you CAN change.

Being into nerdy stuff and shit like that is never a problem. Those parts of your personality you can't necessarily change, but you don't have to. You'd be surprised that the other gender has people interested in those same things aswell.

Rbn_-Throwaway · 2021-03-27T05:08:37+00:00

I disagree. When women talk about "personality" they don't go as deep as you think. They don't talk about your inner psyche and being. They don't give a shit about that and contrary to what they say they are oblivious to it. They are only referring to surface level performative bullshit theater that can definitely be improved with practice.

NockerJoe · 2021-03-27T04:24:23+00:00

Both of those can take months or even years to really work. Its just your brain is judging the effort and gets a say and your body doesn't.

nameisahmad · 2021-03-27T08:01:54+00:00

You can change as long as youre open to change and know your mistakes

2021-03-27T05:24:17+00:00

It depends on what traits and skills you're talking about.

An introvert most likely won't become an extrovert, but they can improve their social skills, become more comfortable with talking in public, get more friends and acquaintances and spend more time with people they like. All of these requires actual changes in behavior, errors and tries, it surely doesn't happen "just by wishing".

A person with trauma and/or other mental issues can work this trauma and at least get healthier coping strategies. There are methods that work for anger control, anxiety, depression etc. It might be extremely hard to find the one that would work specifically for your situation, but it doesn't mean that you shouldn't try.

2021-03-27T07:51:21+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Inevitable-Fix547 · 2021-03-27T09:17:02+00:00

Your problem isn't the fact that people can't change personality. I've done it and I've seen countless other virgin, nerdy, unattractive, beta, losers just like myself do it.

It takes about 2 years, the first year of which is very painful, especially when you have to strictly fake it because you haven't "made it" yet and your abundance mentality is not backed up by any real world abundance.

Your problem is ego investment. You are so invested in your identity that you can't let go. You think who you are is set in stone, you think your personality is "you" when really, it's more like a thing you have, like clothes.

If you choose to live on autopilot your personality is, indeed, the product of your environment. Your genetics, your parents, weird idiosyncrasies you picked up on the playground at age 5, but that's a lot more akin to how your body type is the result of your environment if you don't conciously take steps to change it than it is akin to bones or eye colour which are static and unaffected by environmental factors.

You can take steps to get into the game community, I'd recommend OLD groups since OLD is a lot more suited to autistic retards like us because it's easier to understand and game. You can learn the principles of good photos, fashion, witty text game and have all the time in the world to think.

As for whether it's worth it? That's up to you to decide. I was desperate enough for fulfilling romantic relationships that for me it was worth it. I got into it just wanting a girlfriend but now I'm better off than I could have ever imagined.

It's extremely hard and painful though, especially at first when it feels like you're taking a wrecking ball to your life and destroying everything you think you care about and you think defines you. I can't judge you if you think it's not worth it, but don't kid yourself. It's neither impossible, nor is it pointless. It's just difficult

dogmeat116 · 2021-03-27T09:24:56+00:00

The point isn't to become a polar opposite of your true self, but to improve within the framework of what you already have. It works similar to improving your looks - you can't become taller or fix a crooked nose, but you can always exercise, get a good haircut and wear nice clothes, to get the best out of what nature gave you.

So an introverted cynic doesn't have to become an extroverted optimist to be popular, just be the most likeable version of an introverted cynic. Look, Keanu Reeves is an introvert and he's arguably the most liked person on Earth.

John_Oakman · 2021-03-27T10:27:42+00:00

Given how common and effective "fake it till you make it" is in the workplace (anything from corporate/military to more individualistic work settings), changing personality traits in the dating/relationship scene should also be viable.

On a side note, the number of people who changed after marriage (usually for the worse, but that's beside the point) would suggest that either they can change, or that they're able to change beforehand for extended periods of time.

semitangent · 2021-03-27T12:26:12+00:00

Not with that attitude.

Not to be snarky, but people do evolve over time, or they don’t. If you’re talking about a quick shift from personality type A to B, probably not.

Most of the time it’s not necessary, something like being introverted vs being extroverted, where you can be successful as either and it would be difficult to go from one to the other in a short amount of time.

If it’s something like being excessively cynical, then getting professional help probably is the best option, somebody else may be able to help you reduce or remove the sharp edges in the shortest amount of time

darkredpintobeans · 2021-03-27T12:31:33+00:00

I think your personality changes regardless of if you want it to or not. It's based on your circumstances and experience right? So the only way for it to stay the same is if you lock yourself in your room and never leave. If your personality hasn't evolved at all in the past ten years or so that means you haven't grown any.

lulll · 2021-03-27T12:56:06+00:00

kind of amusing to read all these comments, the same people who probably rant about gaslighting are doing the same thing to you. all this 'improve this improve that improve improve improve do this gotta improve' horseshit is coming from youtube, it's easy money for the people who do it, and it makes idiots feel like they finally have some type goal. its actually very easy to counter all their bullshit with a very simple idea. all these morons talk about is confidence, how about i'm confident enough in who i am to realize it isn't worth my time changing who i am to please you. because thats what its all about, they made a check list of "correct" traits and if you don't check all the boxes you aren't a human in their eyes. they can all eat shit, do what you want and stop paying attention to these internet loser advancement junkies trying to sell you their moronic lifestyle

if you really want to see how little people change ignore yourself and focus on the people you've known throughout your life. i can't think of anyone that changed all that much, they're all pretty much the same lol. i think people desperately need to make believe their life is some epic extraordinary story of twists and turns to make it seem like they are important or something.

AelfredRex · 2021-03-27T13:00:43+00:00

If your personality is a shallow sexist who only cares about himself, fine. But putting that in a three thousand dollar suit is just putting lipstick on a male chauvinist pig.

You have to recognize your negatives and work to eliminate them from your character. That's how you improve your personality. But it takes self-awareness and that's the hard part.

passthewasabi · 2021-03-27T13:01:32+00:00

I suppose it is specific to what you’re trying to change within your personality. I’m a very introverted female. I will always be an introvert. No amount of anything is going to change that. But that’s okay and people who don’t understand that can suck it. But there are some aspects of behavior and habits that get lumped into and grouped with personality that can absolutely be changed. Depending on the type of therapy you’re going to really can effect it’s outcome. Some types of therapy work better for some people and issues than others. No one size fits all. And you’re right with using medications to numb the pain of some people. I know in the US, doctors are too quick to prescribe antidepressants rather than looking deeper into the issue. It could be lack of exercise, lack of natural sunlight, or in person human interaction. It could be there is a lack of vitamins or minerals (lack of vitamin B-12 & 6, vitamin D, magnesium, folate, amino acids, iron, zinc, iodine, and selenium) can all be physical reasons why depression or anxiety can happen. And of course, the moment they fix the nutrition issues, the person feels better. I digress. The point is cynicism and being bitter is more of an outlook and not part of your personality. I had to unlearn my toxic positivity and am still unlearning it. It’s hard though.

moneygang4life · 2021-03-27T13:06:36+00:00

Just be more of a manipulative psychopath is what women really mean when they say work on personality cuz that is what they consistently go for.... they don’t mean be a nice guy or be fun or whatever they literally just mean. Have a more sexually attractive personality which is literally just you being a manipulative asshole. Thank you women and your helpful advice about personality really has done all men very well

Nyurae · 2021-03-27T14:50:46+00:00

Lol no, that‘s like saying you can‘t actually lose weight because otherwise there would be no fat people around. Nobody says things like that are easy but they are very well possible.

LillthOfBabylon · 2021-03-27T04:04:23+00:00

I hope this is a joke. Its proven that people who seek profession help for problems do better than people who didnt.

Fragmented79 · 2021-03-27T06:15:04+00:00

I guess this sub is the new r/incelswithouthate.

Im_The_Daiquiri_Man · 2021-03-27T07:55:16+00:00

If your personality is like a car, and you keep driving into a ditch you sure as shit can learn to stop driving your car (life) into a ditch by improving your driving skills (personality)

The problem is, becoming a better driver is different for everybody.

If you drive a jeep that pulls to the right when you brake, learn to compensate for that with foresight and actions.

If you drive a Porsche that loses traction at hard acceleration, learn techniques to avoid that.

You don’t have to change your internal personality to become better at expressing and managing it you just have to be self aware and do the work.

-WolfieMcq · 2021-03-27T05:51:40+00:00

I disagree for a variety of reasons. I was born into a Springer (Jerry) family. Every single thought and issue is as said aloud and no one was spared regardless of age. So I had a twisted view of humor and public behavior. I was virtually unaware until I got older and noticed I was rarely invited to outside school activities,and was disappointed of course. Watching how people I liked reacted to me and how people they liked behaved—I started to seek out books to shed light on behavior and what was considered “bad”. Without saying much I gradually stopped some bad behaviors and attitudes and embraced behaviors that were less extreme. It helped to KNOW how to behave-not just guessing.

Gradually I grew to move into better circles, better people, (less trash adults and the sort) and my goals got better-all without the permission of anyone. It was all my choice.

I opened doors to a life I wanted and shut doors that didn’t suit the real me. I’d been raised by “whatever” people who didn’t give a shit about me and I’m glad I made the effort to stop riding the canoe down the sewer and to turn and paddle upstream -often known as the road less traveled I guess.

I’m glad I did what I did and was smart enough not to ask permission or consulted with people who would have just ridiculed and undermined (my “family”).

I’m the real me, but with options.

You can pretend you can’t change things about yourself, but that’s the easy out to do nothing. The question is do you want it?

michael1962-01 · 2021-03-27T04:41:21+00:00

Stoicism can be learned.

Tramelo · 2021-03-27T08:00:15+00:00

I agree, I posted on r/unpopularopinions two years ago saying that there's much more you can do to change your looks that you can do to change your personality.

It seems that personality pretty much depends on your genetics, your brain wiring, and how you experienced the first years of your life.

You can probably learn social skills and language, but can you really change the core of who you are? I don't known. And don't bring up things related to masking because, well, that's just masking.

AutoModerator · 2021-03-27T03:57:58+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "CMV" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

AutoModerator · 2021-03-27T03:57:58+00:00

Hi OP,

You've chosen to identify your thread as a CMV. As such you are expected to actively engage in your own thread with a mind open to being changed. PPD has guidelines for what that involves.

OPs author must genuinely hold the position and you must be open to having your view challenged.

An unwillingness to have your view challenged may be inferred from one or several of the following:

Asking few or no genuine questions;

Seeming more interested in arguing or convincing others than understanding opposing views;

Ignoring the main point of a comment, especially to point out some minor inconsistency;

Refusing to make concessions that an alternate view has merit;

Focusing only on the weaker arguments;

Explicit statements of an intent to change the other posters’ minds; or

Only having discussions with users who agree with your position.

Failure to keep to this higher standard (we only apply to CMV OPs) may result in deletion of the whole thread.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

Hoopy223 · 2021-03-27T05:28:28+00:00

Its more about changing how you are perceived, not your personality. Learning how to be “fun” to talk to (listening + bullshit artist for example).

Depression meds can help to change your attitude. Your brain is a ball of chemicals and electricity not concrete.

As for the gym most of that “magnetism” is looks so if you are fit with a nice smile (braces/veneers if you need em) you are 2/3rds of the way there.

AidsVictim · 2021-03-27T05:29:08+00:00

I agree to an extent. General social competency can be learned. I used to be a very shy and awkward person. I no longer have any real problem asserting myself in a group or appearing "normal".

However I'm always going to be a more introverted "cynical" person and will never change into the extroverted super confident personality type that is most broadly successful with women.

2021-03-27T08:32:00+00:00

[permanently deleted]

GYN-k4H-Q3z-75B · 2021-03-27T09:29:53+00:00

I agree to some extent, though some aspects of personality are harder to change than others. Maybe change is a strong word? I did over time reduce some traits and learn to be okay with some situations that would have made me very uncomfortable before, but at my core, my personality feels like it was fully forged by the time I was like 17.

As an introvert, I learned to be more outgoing to a point where I actually like interacting with people, but it's never not going to be draining me whereas a real extrovert draws energy from it. People who don't know me well perceive me as rather extroverted but fail to notice that I'm gone when I've had enough and ten horses can't bring me back.

Your personality is the result of life experiences. The only way to change your personality is the put yourself in uncomfortable positions and be successful and rewarded for it systematically. The older you are, the harder this becomes.

ChibsFilipTelfordd · 2021-03-27T09:47:02+00:00

I actually agree except i think you're forgetting one very small distinction.

The ability via motivation and discipline to go to the gym and eat right every day is also based on personality.

So really it all just boils down to personality.

Ryzasu · 2021-03-27T10:19:51+00:00

I'm not saying changing your personality is easy, but it's definitely not harder than improving your looks, which is almost impossible (assuming you already take care of yourself and are in shape). Even surgery can only do a little and is ridiculously expensive

Also, aside from extroversion and overall social skills your personality doesn't affect your dating chances by much. Extroversion is hard to learn to become natural at if you are not, but it can still become a habit. And improving social skills is also definitely doable

revente · 2021-03-27T10:50:25+00:00

This is just dumb. It’s like saying when you’re bad at math it’s pointless to learn the math.

The thing is that you are mixing up personality with skills. And being good at interacting with people and dating is not a personality trait but a skill.

Cybercunt2069 · 2021-03-27T11:04:27+00:00

The best kind of personality improvements are: surgeries and jaw implants.

2021-03-27T11:13:43+00:00

Do you know David Goggins? I recommend you listen to his audiobook.

Daffan · 2021-03-27T12:13:17+00:00

I think you can improve it a little bit but yeah, I always thought it was a fake it until you make it thing.

For example; you are shaped by your teenage formative years, and than you 'experiment' with some new hair style or fitness and you look a lot better so the attention you get changes. However because you were already so ingrained one way your basically faking your behaviour perhaps even at your own disgust (e.g you know you can get away with way more cocky and manipulative behaviour but you have to force yourself to do it, rather than naturally as if you were brought up looking hot)

CregSantiago · 2021-03-27T12:24:55+00:00

I'm sure about changing your body structure at the gym, you can improve your chances as a guy getting in shape. Its about testosterone, and if you appear to have a lot of it.

HectoSexual · 2021-03-27T12:26:02+00:00

Yea it’s impossible to change the underlying personality, but it’s very possible to change what others’ perception of your personality is. And that’s the important part.

aquariuskitty_ · 2021-03-27T12:36:13+00:00

Oh okay so you you’re the same person you were 10 years ago? People don’t grow, change, improve? This post really just sounds like an excuse for people with crappy personalities to remain crappy.

cloudsongs_ · 2021-03-27T12:39:10+00:00

Sure, your personality is shaped by the experiences you had but that means you want to stop there. You are able to influence your thinking with self-reflectipn, or therapy. Because you could improve your looks and be super hot but women (or men) aren't going to be interested for long if you're closed off, 100% introverted, not conscientious, and have poor self-esteem (feeling constantly jealous, worthless, and thinking and saying to your partner "why are you even with me?")

Chemical-Ad3703 · 2021-03-27T12:39:42+00:00

I do remember my psych asking me if there was a reason for my anxiety or did it come on without triggers. Which leads me to believe CBT maybe helpful if it's triggered anxiety. For me I just had anxiety all the time! There was nothing I could CBT for. Coping is not acceptable for Me.

Chemical-Ad3703 · 2021-03-27T12:41:23+00:00

Personality takes a big turn when you feel good about yourself.

Flintblood · 2021-03-27T12:46:12+00:00

Once you get any attention you can build upon it and start leveling up. I am an introvert but was able to still be interesting to women I was interested in. I improved looks enough to have them agree to be with me then learned enough frame control, some PUA game basics and Dale Carnegie bs to keep them talking.

I think you dichotomized too much with this post. I agree to a certain extent. I’ve had a harder time transferring personality growth to all audiences men alike than I have with women.

Dominemm · 2021-03-27T12:50:10+00:00

I mean, even going from my 20s to my 30s was a big leap for me personality wise.

2021-03-27T13:10:08+00:00

Personality is not fixed, even as an adult, especially young adult. People not only can change, but they INEVITABLY do, one way or another. Due to new life circumstances, experiences, interactions or simply aging. Every single of my friends who became a father for example. turned into a different person. Some into a shittier one tbh, but some into a way better. And with all other aspects of your life, you have SOME control over it. Use that

wtknight · 2021-03-27T13:16:35+00:00

While I agree that it's difficult to improve personality, it's much easier to improve one's confidence, and this is what is attractive to women. No guy's personality is going to be attractive to every woman, although some personalities are more attractive than others, but I'd argue that every type of confident personality has a niche of woman who will be attracted to it.

pleasedontknowmee · 2021-03-27T13:20:05+00:00

Couldn’t agree more honestly

Title	CMV: Trying to improve your personality is even harder, more pointless than trying to improve your looks
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	58
Comments	312
Date	March 27, 2021 3:57 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/me65gx/cmv_trying_to_improve_your_personality_is_even/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-trying-to-improve-your-personality-is-even.1187369 https://theredarchive.com/post/1187369

Comments