Can we stop trying to help foreveralone now?

fifth0 · 2012-04-07T20:02:00+00:00

NEVER try to help someone that DOES NOT WANT TO BE HELPED. They just end up resenting you for it.

ThrowawayPUA · 2012-04-07T17:43:00+00:00

I wasn't aware that Tofu was doing this, but as a moderator, I can't condemn him for it. This seemed to be more of a "meta" post, sounding out people's attitudes about seddit, rather than promoting it.

I am generally against "outreach" as it attracts negative attention from people who are unable to see past their prejudices about PUA. Nothing we can say will result in anything but a negative response. As a large subreddit, we're going to get that negative attention anyway, and we can deal with it.

But there is a huge difference between seeking opinions in ForeverAlone, vs some of the horribly misguided attempts at "outreach" I've seen in 2XC or SRS or other groups. Please don't do that. And if critics come here to "educate" us about how horrible we are, please do not take the bait and respond.

minicharr · 2012-04-07T18:51:06+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Tradman · 2012-04-07T18:10:31+00:00

pua communities, include two lairs that im involved in, are generally closed(but not closed off) in the same way that mason societies are.

Mason societies arent restricted to any group-- anyone can join if they have the will and go up to the lodge and agree to be a good memer, but they don't openly advertise or reach out for new members either.

There's nothing really wrong going on in seddit, but if you dont accept basic pua tenets and aren't genuinely interested in it, you're not going to be able to contribute in any meaningful way.

I don't see anything wrong with the non-advertising closed community model. and considering the number of crap comments getting upvoted recently like the one you pointed out i seriously dont see any reason to reach out to more afcs.

nycprowl · 2012-04-07T19:24:25+00:00

I think it was a noble effort, and for what it's worth, I'm sure we were able to help a bunch of people and have them change.

That being said... it seems like /r/seduction is at a new point of low, with a lot of posts of "HOW DO I GET THIS ONE GIRL", and when we inform them you don't, we get downvoted into oblivion. People are starting to treat this as relationship_advice more than ever, and it's a shame (no hate on relationship_advice, it's great for specific girls) but seddit isn't the place for that, and to be honest I find myself checking seddit much less frequently these days.

respeckKnuckles · 2012-04-07T18:54:48+00:00

Hey OP, on this link you posted, I made a comment on how you worded your reply to him, and I would like to apologize for my comment. It was kind of rude. After further thought, I now see what you mean by every interaction involving complex social dynamics.

isle_of_green · 2012-04-07T23:30:37+00:00

I believe that reaching out must be done still. After all that's how I got to discover and sub to this subreddit. I think it was someone who mentioned seddit community to someone who asked for help getting a GF.

So Please, keep spreading the word about r/seduction. Because they'll thank you for it later. Personally I became a better person since I joined this subreddit and I am grateful to all of you here.

Granted not everyone will appreciate it. But then again some will.

So how about we become what we preach, OUTCOME INDEPENDENT, and give value by at least leading people here.

And Honestly it doesn't matter what the crap or attitudes they have about us, we're better than caring about what they think of us.

TL;DR, OP if you don't want to give value by helping loners, then don't do it, but don't tell others not to do it either because there are some people who need to hear about this subreddit desperately.

whalesalad · 2012-04-07T19:09:01+00:00

I tried talking to some people in /r/nofap about seddit and all they do is whine and bitch about how I'm spamming and trying to spread manipulative stuff. Guys were mentioning that women were complementing them more often in public, but they didn't know how to handle it. One guy at one point said a girl told him: "I don't know who you're fooling, but I've been looking at you the whole night" link to story and he just laughed. That's gold! Extremely obvious IOI.

Sucks because I feel like not masturbating is really beneficial for a PUA and a man in general. They got hand in hand to me. That place gets me down to be honest. I don't want to say anything really demeaning about the /r/nofap community, but in general it seems like they're all a bunch of AFC porn junkies and /r/seduction would really help them turn their lives around, in terms of confidence and self-image. I think most of us who have been experimenting with and researching pick-up and seduction can all agree that it's less about getting laid and more about bettering yourself.

Oh and finally, people who chill in /r/foreveralone are there for a reason. It's because their self-image/esteem is so low that they feel sorry for themselves. I don't condemn trying to encourage them to learn about seduction, obviously, but seems like if resistance is being met there... it's sort of obvious haha. Some people just like feeling sorry for themselves and enjoy not being able to "find a solution" for any of their problems.

drumdance · 2012-04-07T19:06:10+00:00

My thoughts:

Haters gonna hate
PUA will always have a negative reputation.
Arguing about this stuff is still fun
The best you can do is educate people one-on-one. IME most girls I've dated find this stuff intriguing, frequently asking to borrow The Game
It's like talk radio - the people who really disapprove will rant, but meanwhile a lot of FA types will be intrigued and quietly set about learning more

BassmanUK · 2012-04-07T18:06:07+00:00

I agree, especially after seeing some of the vitriol from the FA xpost.

Kudos for being so cool-headed in you point as well. The issue I can see though is that (given the size of this sub) people will continue to reach out altruistically and outside of Mod intervention (which none of us want) there is no real way to limit it.

xinclusive · 2012-04-07T19:54:49+00:00

Wow I never even knew /r/foreveralone existed and when I look at the posts there... it's pretty depressing. PUA works for sure, I have experienced it, it just takes a lot of work and dedication which is a small price to pay for the rewards I got.

minicharr · 2012-04-07T21:05:19+00:00

i'd say leave them be. i'm over weight, i found r/fitness on my own and joined a gym. i'm beta with girls, i found this place on my own. you strip the pseudo-religious fate/destiny shit from dating and break it down into an enriching science, which i really appreciate. i will say as someone who is still quite afc that, to quote the suicidal, "i miss the comfort in being sad" it takes some effort to change up your life and maintain the effort to improve, which is why they resist. you can lead a horse to water....

and you've done that. all the more for us.

Confidence_Throwaway · 2012-04-07T22:17:14+00:00

Holy shit; I disagreed with this post just from the principle standpoint, as I fully believe in reaching out and helping others achieve goals. But man, those people in /r/ForeverAlone are complete assholes. No wonder they're Forever Alone.

God forbid we try to understand social mechanics so we can maximize fun for all and minimize the suffering of most awkward social situations.

They just kept ignoring all logical posts and calling people of seddit rapists. I... can't... even fathom how they could say that. Hell, that guy on the front page JUST released the sex survey statistics saying that females want sex just as much as men.

My mind is completely blown. This place has done wonders for my self-confidence; I don't want to pick up women every night and have one-night stands, I want to become the best Me there is so I can find the right woman; she has standards too.

So yeah, fuck those guys. They can wallow in self-pity for as long as they feel is necessary.

2012-04-07T21:52:25+00:00

My 2 cents:

I don't know what all foreveraloners are like - I'm sometimes a bit of a FA myself - but the fact that they are identifying themselves with this identity and not willing to accept new ways and ideologies into improving themselves is already counter-productive to start with. That's the reason I don't browse FA, its not helpful to remind myself of negativity, and being in a community of people to wallow in self-pity isn't going to help either.
Most people that dislike the whole Seddit/PUA thing have not kept an open-minded in their introduction to it, or were exposed to the more gimmicky side of it. Terms like peacocking, DHV, LMR, etc. do come off as a bit manipulative, but I think that Seddit has been focused towards self-improvement in general, which is something that everyone who gives two shits about himself should care about.

Therefore I don't think we should really reach out anymore. If people wanted to really help themselves and improve, they'll know their way here eventually.

shakedown_st · 2012-04-07T21:36:00+00:00

I created /r/faimprovement 3 months ago. There's about 360 subscribers and it's for FAs who no longer want to be FA. I've charted my progress of the last 6 months of my life in that subreddit and how far I've come from starting with nothing to now having a girlfriend.

There will obviously be some people who disagree with some of the material I've posted there, and that's fine. But I've written everything from an FA point of view because I used to be one. My transformation has been nothing short of remarkable and I get PMs from FAs who subscribe to the subreddit who are thankful that I put it up.

So I ask that people direct FAs who want to know this stuff to /r/faimprovement. Also, it would be great to have more participation from other sedditors with more experience than I to make posts of their own.

mjaumjau · 2012-04-08T04:19:35+00:00

motherfucker, as far as i'm concerned TofuTofu is seddit.

hhmmmm · 2012-04-08T10:12:49+00:00

Can we start accepting the fact that we're underground- and that's the right place for us.

The fact that all these subreddits dislike us is perfectly fine, that's the way it should be.

All we have to do is allow for people that pro-actively seek out the knowledge that floats around in the seduction community to find us- that's it. No attracting AFCs trying to live the romantic-comedy dream, no trying to convince foreveralone's that their problems might be solved if they took on our perspective- that's all rubish.

TL;DR- We're underground, be happy about that.

respeckKnuckles · 2012-04-08T03:00:50+00:00

[permanently deleted]

2012-04-09T03:28:38+00:00

Don't try to help the forever alone's

I browsed that subreddit for a bit and found a rage comic about being alone that included a background. I recognized it as my high school, PM'd the guy and asked him if he wanted to hang out. TBH, I felt like I was doing some sort of good deed or community service, but I still genuinely wanted to help this guy out

Met him the next day at lunch in the atrium, was one of the many random people I've seen once or twice in the hallways.

Took him to the cafe and introduced him, he refused to talk. Found another group in the library, he refused to talk. Introduced him to one of the hottest girls I know (Yeah, I just wanted to talk to the girl, but I made sure to include him) and he kept staring away and basically making it clear he didn't want to hang around.

Talked to him alone, end of lunch he said he'd rather not hang around anymore because he didn't want to hang around me and my friends because we talk about "boring and uninteresting crap".

I introduced this guy to over 20 people and talked about tons of stuff trying to find out his interests, and even brought him up to a hot girl and he refused to talk

Some people are just antisocial by choice. Not all, but don't bother trying to help them. The ones that want help can come here themselves, the rest can stay foreveralone

Lethargic-Lothario · 2012-04-07T22:54:15+00:00

I find the similarities behind foreveralone's community and seductions' community not unlike that of a pro-religion board and an atheist board. Forever alone-- what little I know of it-- is about promoting anti-social behavior; wether as a self-depricating sense of humor or a darker outlook on modern human interaction. The purpose why people congregate there is to push the fact they're loners who self-observe their day to day situations/behavior that causes them to further drive themselves into isolation. I recall going there as well as a few other subreddits looking to find not only people with similar anti-social issues like myself but some support in trying to counter-act that behavior. And was sadly mistaken. There are some pro-social skydiving sub-communities out there -- though kind of small I did find. /r/foreveralone is not one of them.

I digress. The point is that going into such a community that is all about being ok with loner-type behavior with the something that in that community defies it's hive-minded, core social convention is just asking for trouble. Not unlike Jehova's witness going door to door pushing a religious truth onto one's threshold. Most people don't answer there door, right? Some people are quite rude.

It is to be expected that there are just some communities here that are about a very different way of thinking. That the people there aren't (for the current time being anyway) interested in change. And what I love about /r/seduction, is how big it's gotten since I began to lurk here. I don't think anybody here at this point needs to go promoting the message in other boards. People know it's here.

The only thing is I can say about this place is there is a strong division of thinking between some of the members who come here. I would bank more so the lurkers like myself. I won't lie-- there are just some things about the mentality of seddit that I find come around rather often I don't agree with. Lines I'm not sure whether make sense to cross in my way of thinking that I've had since youth. Those key divisions being between the self-improvement ideals of seddit and the more routine-strategy side of seddit.

I personally love the idea of being more confident in myself. Working out. Looking people in the eye. Declaring what I do and who I am in such a way people get excited about getting to know me. And gaining back that energy to want to know about other people. I love these things.

I'm not sure I love the ideas behind : Pushing through LMR, Kino, Escalation, IOIs, Using this line of dialogue to get her home, a huge list of acronyms, HB7-HB10 (I have rarely seen anyone use any number less than 6 btw). What validates you as a alpha. And it's not that I don't believe these things -- I'm not sure how a part of my life I want to be day to day using these things. Some things I consider valid ways of improving conversation. At one point am I being me and what point am I just running a checklist of moves on another human being? I personally am more of an idealist.

But overall what's great about this place is there's more than one method. Plenty of things to use -- tools to improve your lifestyle and/or PUA ability. I think the first thing people need to learn about /r/seduction, is that very thing: There's more than one way to do this, it's just finding what works best for you.

JSintra · 2012-04-07T19:47:11+00:00

I honestly think this whole issue is bullshit.

I am me, and I get along with almost anybody and I don't have to identify or protect or project any one community.
Nonetheless, I like this place and come here every once in a while to read your stories and learn from events that have shaped you guys. It's really interesting and I also learn some stuff.

There's nothing wrong with what Tofutofu did, and I understand that he was trying to be helpful... but you can't help those that aren't willing to be helped. Kinda like enforcing your religion views on somebody who already has his/her own views.
The number one thing we have in common here is that we acknowledge that we want change in our lives. See? We want it.
So, what we as a community have to do, is be here and be welcoming and understanding.

There's no point in trying to explain what we do to "outsiders" who simply refuse to listen and already have a pre-conceived idea about us (that they refuse to change). It's like trying to have a discussion with someone whose only reply is "No, you are wrong!". Until they actively want to change and are willing to open their minds, there is nothing we can do for them.

There is also the matter of this community being viewed in a negative way, a vestige from the past when this place was only about getting laid. I really like that this place has transitioned to a self-improvement community where one can learn to interact in society, and learn to have fun in public.
But still, there are still some lingering threads about guys going all macho, showing off their bravado, trying to seek approval and value... these threads I do not like. I want to see you guys having fun and at nobody's expense.

LadyNerd · 2012-04-08T04:37:12+00:00

I've fresh to this sub, and the only problem I have with it is... it feel like cheating!!!

Took me forever to perfect my 'game', and then I discovered PUA tactics, and they're basically the same. I hate you guys for figuring out the quicker way!!! But I also love you guys cuz this place is full of funny/awesome stories that a broshemi can relate to.

Ambassador_throwaway · 2012-04-07T23:28:43+00:00

I read over the /r/foreveralone thread and now I know why they're forever alone.

24rubikscube · 2012-04-08T04:27:21+00:00

I have no sympathy for those that call themselves "forever alone." That's pathetic. I sympathize with those that are trying to get improve, but are struggling. It's not easy. They're doing something about it. I have no pity for those that don't.

/r/ForeverAlone Translation: a subreddit of people that joke about there being billions of people in the world, and they're so valueless that not a single one of them will ever want to be with them. That just sounds like such a joy to read.

Honestly, the reason they're doing so poorly isn't because they're socially awkward, it's because they're assholes.

worthwhilethrowaway · 2012-04-07T20:38:28+00:00

/r/ForeverAlone should be renamed /r/clinicallydepressed.

dablac · 2012-04-07T22:02:57+00:00

It would be nice if we could help people fix all the problems that they complain about but if they don't want to be helped there's not much you can do without causing more problems.

ymrhawk · 2012-04-07T22:17:43+00:00

The first thing people need to realize is that perception of this community should be the least of your concerns. Once you understand how futile it is then you can stop with this outreaching nonsense. In fact the less members in this community the better.

respeckKnuckles · 2012-04-08T03:21:25+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Nexism · 2012-04-08T04:28:19+00:00

People that really want to improve will give seduction a go, even if it sounds however biased.

Otherwise they clearly aren't ready to move on.

That's not to say there aren't other ways though, but seduction is one of them, if the others have failed, time to give seduction a go.

MrFunnycat · 2012-04-08T06:14:38+00:00

The amount of what seems to be SRS goon trolls in that thread is just astounding.

CZtheDude · 2012-04-08T12:02:33+00:00

I'm just a somewhat regular lurker here and I have literally been sitting for an hour straight, eating snacks like Michael Jackson in "Thriller" while reading through that mentioned thread over at FA. I am truly shocked at some of those people's views on women/pickup techniques/men/life/ponies. And still reading.

Yeah!

woocheese · 2012-04-08T17:33:28+00:00

I lurk here, I have gained a lot of useful information here. I don't think anyone here actually has the same goals as one another. Some people here will be testing the waters searching for a long term partner, others will be looking for a string of one night stands, others looking for fuck buddies etc.

What I don't want to see happen here is posters coming from other subreddits specifically self pitying areas like forever alone.

There is one thing that this place needs and it is a sense of alpha status. If that goes then this place is useless.

CannieAnnie · 2012-04-08T22:55:44+00:00

This post confirms my belief that a separate female FA subreddit is needed. Female FAs are hardly part of the whole PUA scene, but come here for cameraderie, sympathy, and friendship. It's now obvious we are unwelcome here.

2012-04-09T16:48:32+00:00

This shit is like the Matrix; Even if you could "wake these guys up", PU/self improvement works only for select individuals; most people are better off left alone.

The Seduction community suffers from the same collective fallacy: That anyone can do this.

It's actually kind of comical that those in seduction now carry a "fuck them" attitude towards afc's/ForeverAlone's for being afc's/ForeverAlone's.

RedHawk · 2012-04-08T03:13:43+00:00

In the past I've been content to lurk and skim the more interesting posts on the sub-reddit. However, at this point I need to step in and say my piece. At no point and under no circumstances should we be reaching out to the /r/foreveralone, /r/TwoX, and /r/Feminism communities.

Every one of us was genuinely clueless at one point in time. So we assume that White Knights and AFCs ended up that way because they are clueless about social dynamics as well. Here is the rub, not all of them are clueless.

Clueless people lead sucky lives because of their predicament. The kind of people who form communities like /r/foreveralone understand their situation. They surround themselves with like minded people so they can parasitize off each other without making the effort to improve their lives.

Creating excitement and social value is tremendously difficult. People who excel at it, Lady Gaga for example, train their whole life just to capture the attention of an audience for an hour. You and I may not put as much effort into it, yet we still have to learn, practice, and have a life in order to be socially successful.

What about people who don’t want to make that effort? How do they get validation and social recognition? Simple. They create drama. This drama attracts people who feel sorry for them and shower them with attention and validation. This satisfies the emotional void, the craving and depression they feel inside. But notice they have not taken any steps to solve their problem. So the problem has actually become worst. Now they get into a pity party circle jerk with like minded losers. They moan about how hard they “tried”. How “nothing works”. How others (women, society, scapegoat du jour) are to blame and voila – more attention and validation. This time from a “community” based around “helping” with their problem. Notice the problem still exists, so they create more drama and the cycle repeats ad infinitum.

I’ve been down this road before, trying to help a classmate. I’ve been down this road before, trying to help a guy from my former lair. Now this community is making the same mistake. It’s going to end in disappointment because you cannot force another person to change. They have to change themselves.

respeckKnuckles · 2012-04-07T18:22:01+00:00

1) It invites more people like this.

That's a perfectly reasonable post.

2) It hurts our perception in the public.

No, your posts here and the PUA community at large hurt your perception. Your lack self-awareness hurts your perception e.g. you thinking that the aforementioned post was bad.

Jbullfrog · 2012-04-08T00:45:09+00:00

[permanently deleted]

taylorm6707 · 2012-04-08T00:30:06+00:00

As a FA'er I would appreciate seddit staying out of FA. FAer's don't bombard this sick place.

jjness · 2012-04-08T17:13:22+00:00

Wow, I walk away for a day and this turns into a huge event.

My only thoughts is maybe I'm still too wet behind the ears to be championing Seddit, but I did my best. Also, maybe /r/FAImprovement would have been a better target.

kojopolis · 2012-04-08T06:37:05+00:00

foreveraloners are extreme neurotics, look at the neurosis and narcissistic self pity in that subreddit, why is this a big suprise?

kqpro · 2012-04-08T06:22:28+00:00

foreveralone will always be foreveralone, they are helpless, fuck them.

Title	Can we stop trying to help foreveralone now?
Author	respeckKnuckles
Upvotes	134
Comments	156
Date	April 7, 2012 4:56 PM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/ry0m1/can_we_stop_trying_to_help_foreveralone_now/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/can-we-stop-trying-to-help-foreveralone-now.1330964 https://theredarchive.com/post/1330964

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