Never made sense to me

starbuxed · 2014-05-01T07:13:06+00:00

If I ever have a son, I will make sure it never happens.

double-happiness · 2014-05-01T09:56:59+00:00

I'm actually currently of the view that there is little point arguing with the people who say it is a false equivalence to compare male circumcision with FGM. Even though the least egregious forms of FGM 'only' consist of pricking the clitoris with a pin to conform to some interpretations of Islamic teaching whilst the worst outcome of MGM is death, FGM is far too much of an emotive issue, and attitudes about the relative durability and insusceptibility to pain of male bodies far too embedded for many opponents of FGM to consider joining forces with people who also happen to be critical of the equivalent procedure for males.

And let's be clear - people who are aginst MGM are invariably against the female counterpart. I have never once heard of an intactivist who made an exception for girls. Fortunately, the medical profession and medical ethics experts will tend to increasingly recognise and publicise the potential for harm of all kinds of routine infant circumcision, from an objective standpoint.

Better to let opponents of FGM fight their own battles in the regions of the world where the practise is pushed by religious culture and quack medicine; it makes more sense for campaigners to concentrate on local issues instead. (One could even argue it is a legacy of colonialism to try to force Western norms onto African and Muslim populations.) In my country, it was recently argued that some two thirds of boys who underwent the procedure did so unnecessarily. Males are still the primary victims of undesirable outcomes, with one hospital alone providing emergency treatment for 105 boys in one year for complications after circumcisions. Quite a number of people who are opposed to FGM seem to have religious and cultural reasons for feeling repulsion towards surgically unaltered penises, so why argue with them? It may take generations for their difficulties coming to terms with the natural state of the male organ to subside. In the meantime, we have work to do protecting baby boys, and many reminders of its urgency.

Footnote: if you are interested in gender in medicine, I strongly recommend you read The Stork and the Syringe: A Political History of Reproductive Medicine by Naomi Pfeffer. A really eye-opening book! Men's studies will continue to develop its own theories of the constitution of the male body in medicine, to update and complement second-wave feminist theories which attacked women's objectification in healthcare settings.

TheBrokenWorld · 2014-05-01T07:35:26+00:00

Are there any studies that show a significant difference in the sexual performance of men who are circumcised vs uncircumcised? By sexual performance I mean how long they can typically have intercourse before reaching orgasm.

einexile · 2014-05-01T09:58:38+00:00

I was pretty well set against circumcising my son, but I asked the doctor who delivered him what she thought.

She mentioned that he might be confused that his penis is different from his daddy's (as if a young child's penis looks anything like an adult penis, or a potty trained child needs to see it at all); and oh, he might feel awkward around the other kids in school, because maybe they will all be circumcised.

I live in NYC, for christ's sake.

In the end, it was the informational brochure's repeated mention of the wound that erased all doubt from my mind.

Karma9999 · 2014-05-01T11:28:28+00:00

http://www.collegehumor.com/video/6966989/the-real-reason-youre-circumcised

Endless_Summer · 2014-05-01T14:29:34+00:00

Whenever this comes up, why are there always so many people defending male circumcision as if it's perfectly acceptable to cut off part of a baby's penis?!?

esantipapa · 2014-05-01T13:41:45+00:00

Well, as a bisexual I admit I prefer cut over uncut, plus I'm much happier with my penis being cut as well - still it should be a decision done by the person.

Thankfully today with sex change technology a cut guy could technically go under and come out an uncut man if he so chose so we can negate any changes made without our consent.

X019 · 2014-05-01T12:42:20+00:00

This is an opposing opinion, but I don't care that I don't have any foreskin. I don't remember it happening, I don't miss it. This is a nonissue to me, and I don't think the two points are equivalent.

safewinter · 2014-05-01T12:50:19+00:00

The public as a whole just don't care. Simple as.

darps · 2014-05-01T17:32:55+00:00

I never understood why circumcision is a thing among Christians in the US. The Jewish community does it, yeah, but they are known to follow much stricter rules without questioning. Why do non-devout Christians do it to their kids? It's just another fucking stupid convention everyone follows instead of using their brain.

TriggersMakeMeHard · 2014-05-01T12:57:39+00:00

I'm uncut. Feels good man. I love it when women play with my foreskin with their tongue. Idk what it'll be like to be *cut :(

govt_took_my_baby · 2014-05-01T08:57:38+00:00

As i've said before, if the issue is with genital mutilation or bodily autonomy or unnecessary forced surgery or outdated cultural practices, then it's totally not gendered, it happens to both so deal with the issue as a whole, not half.

however, the issue isnt any of those things, it's female victims again. Find the most abhorrent thing done to women, doesnt matter where or how many, and add to the oppression olympics.

FunctionPlastic · 2014-05-01T14:53:19+00:00

I think circumcision should definitely be illegal for both boys and girls, but it's really much more gruesome for girls, that's why it was easier to get it banned.

cake4chu · 2014-05-01T16:15:33+00:00

The amount of uncut opinion forcing/ deflection and straw grabbing in this thread is too damn high. How do you know you would be happier cut?

shinarit · 2014-05-02T10:08:41+00:00

Never forget to add "in the US". More lucky parts of the world see MGM as something unnatural as well, though not as abhorrent as FGM.

Somobro · 2014-05-01T10:10:55+00:00

This really isn't much except my own speculation but did circumcision originate as a safeguard against potential infection? I was circumcised at age 4 because I was passionate about my own nudity and refused to wear clothes, resulting in an infection under my foreskin. Truth be told, I don't know how much it affects my sensitivity, and the first time I had sex I'm sure I was as disappointingly quick as an uncircumcised man.

I think the big decider has to be in the quality of the procedure. Although I'm not very well versed in how a Bris works, I doubt that the Mohl is a medically certified professional and the fact that it's done in a non-sterile area can't help. I got mine done in an operating theater by a urologist, which I think makes a huge difference. This is another issue with female circumcision; it's done by non-professionals in unsafe environments.

Finally, this topic might seem like a double standard, but the scale of a female circumcision is far more deplorable than that of a male one. Male circumcision shouldn't be done without the consent of the owner of the penis unless it is a medical requirement, but comparing it to female circumcision, which removes the entire clitoris, is much worse than simply removing the foreskin. Insofar as I know, it's done to prevent the female from being able to achieve orgasm. Sounds a lot more sinister than having my foreskin removed.

Milkandcooki · 2014-05-02T09:11:57+00:00

God, this is the most fucking retarded and pathetic thing I've seen on this entire fucking website.

Do you even KNOW what a vagina is? A labia? What happens when a female is "circumcised?" Or are you just another one of those whiny fucks that goes "M-MEN GET T-T-THEIR DICKS CUT!!! W-WHAT IF THAT HAPPENED TO WOMEN??? C-CHECKMATE F-F-FEMINISTS!!!"

EuroTrash_84 · 2014-05-01T18:25:16+00:00

I am glad my parents decided to snip me, my dick is far more visually appealing and low maintenance.

I am in total agreement with MRA on everything but I cannot understand the stance against correcting the ant eater dick flaw.

Sure you can decide as an adult to snip your own junk, but as an adult I have a very low pain tolerance and an intense fear of medical procedures. So if my parents hadn't decided for me I would live my life hating my body but too afraid to change it.

Also comparing circumcision to removing a clitoris is absurd, circumcision has no negative impacts whereas removing a clitoris has a drastic negative effect.

Xevamir · 2014-05-01T14:09:02+00:00

It's almost as if some of the people on this sub are out to make you feel bad about being cut.

ricky251294 · 2014-05-01T16:11:37+00:00

Because FGM is technically the same as cutting off the entire head of the penis really. I'm against male circumcision but that's why. If the heads were cut off it would be illegal.

questicavle · 2014-05-01T16:57:11+00:00

This is more a medical thing, the flap that is cut off can trap dirt and other things, increasing the risk of an infection, where as in girls it holds no medical benefit, but is rather a purity thing from fucking sand monkeys.

birdy45 · 2014-05-01T18:58:10+00:00

I'm going to circumcise my son for sure

walrusboy71 · 2014-05-01T12:21:27+00:00

Hmm. There are a lot of comments coming down against male circumcision. I guess I might be the only person here who supports it...

jsfinegan91 · 2014-05-01T15:36:26+00:00

The post that made me unsubscribe

bigwreck94 · 2014-05-01T10:45:51+00:00

I am uncircumcised. It sucks. The amount of cleaning involved is ridiculous. Infections are caused regularly - sorry - anyone who says there's no reason to have it done is just not correct.

Spore2012 · 2014-05-01T11:45:38+00:00

First of all, men without foreskin have a very reduced chance of HPV (which is the virus for genital warts) which leads to transfer into woman and is the primary cause (something like over 80% of cases) of cervical cancer. You can argue; "just use condoms then", but the reality is that some people don't and obviously HPV still spreads.[PS-HPV isn't centric to the head and shaft, like herpes, so condoms are not super effective]

Literally can fight cancer buy circumcising your boys, and at the same time also fight STD for your son. Think of this like a vaccine.

On top of that, there are countless cases of men or boys who grow up and their frenulum-NSFW or prepuce become too tight, or crack, or tear. This obviously is SEVERELY painful and problematic (some guys have it tighten up so much that they have painful erections or can't get fully hard because it won't let their head out, or can't even pee correctly). Why risk having to get an emergency circumcision as an adult, where it would be painful as fuck and debilitating for days/weeks?

As bonus, you don't have to worry about cleaning out smegma or other infections and smells having another place on the body to build.

Really, the only legitimate argument against it is that it could possibly leave traumatic implicit memories on an infant.

The only actual argument that I see brought up is that some people are into foreskin (because of sexual kinks or whatever). Which is dumb.

PS- I can't even count the number of times guys have called in to Loveline or podcast and talking about how they have these issues and need a circumcision. It's very common. Also, you can just type it in to google and see countless threads and questions about needing to get one at a late age as well.

You honestly think people just started snipping it for kids because it was cool and then they said 'fuck it, lets keep the tradition'? No, they had a legitimate reasoning for doing it then and they have even more legitimate reasons for doing it now.

LostontheAverage · 2014-05-01T07:21:10+00:00

I'm pretty happy that my parents chose to have me circumcised, because it makes my penis more attractive looking than non circumcised mens penises. I have a beautiful Dick and I'm very happy with it and would not want it any other way.

Women pay lots of money to have their labia's snipped later on in life because they don't find their vaginas attractive. I'd be in the same boat if my parents hadn't done it for me at birth when I couldnt remember the pain.

Edit : before you click the downvote button on my comment why don't you comment yourself to tell me what I have said that deserved a downvote. Downvoting me because I disagree with your opinion isn't how reddit is supposed to work. That might happen non stop in default reddits but in this smaller sub that is still trying to gain respect it seems like a pretty silly and fast way to lose support for our cause. Vote responsibly please

If you could show me research that suggests that their Maybe more pros than cons to staying uncircumcised I'd be willing to listen but I feel like having a more attractive penis is a big pro

past0037 · 2014-05-01T07:19:15+00:00

Circumcised males have a 60% lower rate of contracting HIV through heterosexual sex. Another study showed that uncircumcised males have higher risk of contracting HSV (herpes) and HPV (certain strains of which will cause cervical cancer if transmitted to females). Several observational studies have indicated a possible decrease in male-to-female HIV transmission rates in circumcised males, but this wasn't supported by a large, randomized control trial.

In the US, those numbers don't mean a whole lot, mainly because the routes of HIV transmission are different than the countries that the studies were performed in. However, a male in the US has a 1.87% lifetime risk of developing HIV and this lifetime HIV transmission rate can be reduced by 16% with neonatal circumcision.(Sansom SL, Prabhu VS, Hutchinson AB, et al. Cost-effectiveness of newborn circumcision in reducing lifetime HIV risk among U.S. males. PLoS One. 2010;5:e8723.)

What this means is that by reducing the chances of HIV transmission in males, this also decreases the female's chances of getting it through simple statistics of decreased odds of having a male partner that is HIV positive.

Those are a few reasons in support of male circumcision, not to mention the deep religious traditions of Jewish and Muslims around the world with regards to circumcision, but I won't go into that.

Female genital mutilation has no proven medical benefits. In fact it has been associated with severe pain, cellulitis, sepsis, urinary retention, hemorrhage, shock, and even death. Long-term complications, seen predominantly in women who have undergone type III procedures (aka excision of part or all of the external genitalia and stitching/narrowing of the vaginal opening), include cysts, abscesses, keloids, recurrent infections, dyspareunia, and dysmenorrhea due to the infibulated scar overlying the vaginal introitus. Additionally, male complications resulting from female genital mutilation include difficulty in penetration, wounds and infections on the penis, and psychological problems. (Source for the last bit: Toubia N. Female circumcision as a public health issue. N Engl J Med. 1995;331:712-716.

Council of Scientific Affairs: Female genital mutilation. JAMA. 1995;274:1714-1716.

Almroth L, Almroth-Berggren V, Hassanein OM, et al. Male complications of female genital mutilation. Soc Sci Med. 2001;53:1455-1460.)

RobotBuddha · 2014-05-01T09:32:14+00:00

Oh for fucks sake. If female circumcision was carried over to males it'd basically mean cutting off a baby's penis almost in it's entirety. It's not even close to comparable. Oh no, 1% of your sensitivity has been lost, horror of horrors.

PyroSpark · 2014-05-01T04:10:28+00:00

Well, female circumcision is done to remove enjoyment from sex so it's a pretty big difference even though it deals with genitals.

Title	Never made sense to me
Author	ShaidarHaran2
Upvotes	497
Comments	277
Date	May 1, 2014 3:52 AM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/mensrights/comments/24fgv2/never-made-sense-to-me/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/never-made-sense-to-me.1616775 https://theredarchive.com/post/1616775

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