The childish man.

squidracer · 2017-05-15T16:22:41+00:00

I would say in my 20s I was a childish man. I had decent money and it usually only took a few weeks to replace GFS so I had no reason to commit.

Is it a real issue? IDK, depends who you ask. It wasn't for me because I was living the life I enjoyed. No man with options should settle down if they don't want to.

Will men grow up? Well, why should they? This is what women wanted. It's what men want.

The only ones who seem affected are single moms

Pope_Lucious · 2017-05-15T17:16:06+00:00

It's another case of men bearing all of the blame for an issue involving the behavior of both sexes. Men not investing in society obviously is not good for society. This means less productive output and less children being born. But men clearly aren't the only issue here.

Men aren't going to be responsible unless they are incentivized to do so. Marriage has become a crap deal in our society. And with casual sex more readily available, men are feeling less of a need to climb the economic dominance hierarchy for access to women.

Also women outperforming men combined with women's hypergamy means the typical woman's pool of marriage partners shrinks considerably.

So is this a problem?

-Yes, it is.

Is it men's fault?

-Partially.

Solutions?

-Incentivize men to make responsible decisions

uto-uto · 2017-05-15T17:10:53+00:00

i think most people are childish, so i can't say i'm a fan of the article focusing that mostly on men (though i get that they presented some stats that supported what they were saying).

overall, the message of the article (to me) is that if these women aren't finding something up to all of their standards, they'll have to change their standards or risk sacrificing what they want. that part of it seems pretty accurate to me, and i think this has been true for a long time, for a lot of people, about a lot of things. i acknowledge it sucks, but i don't necessarily pity these women. you can't always get what you want (and having a kid later in life or in a 'mixed-collar' partnership is not the end of the world).

UA_Hammer · 2017-05-15T16:45:04+00:00

All the men women want to fuck act like they're 19 year old frattles, maturity is gross and unfun. More news at 11

soccerstar77 · 2017-05-15T17:45:32+00:00

This is in a sense a consequence of hypergamy.

The childish men described here are the one's all the women want to have sex with. Then, women get upset when they realize they can't get the said men to commit early too them.

But if it does deserve to be looked at then what can be done to fix it? Are women going to have to adjust their dating standards? Will men grow up?

This problem cannot be solved, its mathematically impossible. If we did force men to commit early then we will start seeing articles saying men are childish for committing too early.

OurThrownAwayDreams · 2017-05-15T20:49:18+00:00

Welp, you just can't win, can you?

I have to be physically fit, have property, have a car, travel lots to have a lot of experience, have a decent career. All those things demand time.

Housing prices are rising rapidly here. 500k for a house is going fast at 650. I don't even think I can save faster than the price goes up. If I spend any of them to travel then it sets my dream of owning a home back even further. If I get sick that comes out of the down payment pool. Same with anything important breaking in my house.

I'm doing my best working ~10 hours a day trying to climb the ladder, but that's not good enough either.

Then I still have to take care of my home. To make it clean, pristine, and welcoming. On top of that I have to watch my nutrition and work out hard to stay fit and get big. I am trying to split all that time and still have to learn how to do a lot of things.

All of those are not enough. It's never enough.

Do you see why men quit?

PS: I make video games for a living so I have to play video games as part of the job and I have to take out a considerable amount of time to catch up to the technology. That's so childish, isn't it?

ApexHunters · 2017-05-15T17:51:30+00:00

I have to say that this article does make me feel very smug over all the times i've been told to "Keep it in my pants" whenever i've brought up the lack of male reproductive rights.

Unfortunately, introspection appears to be completely beyond this author and anybody who complains about men's unwillingness to settle down.

Alth12 · 2017-05-16T01:09:29+00:00

It was feminism that told us we don't need gender roles, and that everyone should be free to pursue their lives without societal pressures and expectations. Now men are doing that, and it seems, based on the assertions of that article, that includes not wanting kids.

The article actually reeks of entitlement and ego as well. The same ego and entitlement often shown by anger phase TRPers who think women owe them sex. Like those TRPers do with women, the women in this article seemed to have ignored any possibility that they could be the problem and immediately launch into it somehow being men's fault.

It's not an issue at all. Let people live their lives how they want. The majority of people still find happy, fulfilling relationships and have children.

Wallstreet3 · 2017-05-15T18:17:54+00:00

I never wanted that life. Seeing my dad and countless other men go through that meatgrinder, no thanks. I'd rather be free.

The number of marriageable women is staggering low, which is why we have live in girlfriends, and don't want to get these girls pregnant.

My biggest fear was getting a crap woman pregnant. Not because I'd have to be responsible, but because I am responsible for the damage inflicted in the children by a crap mother.

Unabummer80 · 2017-05-16T02:20:39+00:00

This is exactly the kind of women's POV writing that has taken over how society thinks. It is fine for women to blame men for their troubles but men blaming women is sexist. All of the examples given could be interpreted as the woman's fault but no, let's blame the men.

There’s 34-year-old Kate, who works in finance downtown. “She’s beautiful, smart, talented . . . everything going for her,” her colleague tells me. “But her boyfriend doesn’t feel settled in his career, so she spent thousands of dollars to freeze her eggs as she waits for him to be ready.”

She would find someone to have a baby with her at the drop of a hat in that case and her boyfriend doesnt want to have a baby without a stable career. She could easily leave him and find someone who already has a career. But no, this kind of common adult decision is too much for Kate, who wants everything to be exactly perfect. We better put pressure on her boyfriend to start a family before he is ready.

Susan, 41, a single senior marketing executive from the Upper East Side, is eight months pregnant. After waiting for her match and not finding him, she decided to have a baby on her own.

Left it too late so had to go for artificial insemination? She had 20+ years to find her 'match', clearly either her standards are too high or she has major relationship issues. But she feels bad about it, so we better publish her story.

And then there’s Joanna, from the Upper West Side, who tells me that at age 32, she stepped off the partner track at her law firm, halving her salary to work in the firm’s marketing department, so she could focus on landing a husband. But at 39, Joanna is still single and childless — and unsatisfied in her career.

Poor Joanna. Let's blame men for her bad personal choices. We need to save Joanna.

If a man is single beyond the age he can make a baby then that is it for him. He wont get any sympathy and he doesnt have a plan B.

How about women showing some gratitude for being able to make poor decisions all the way through their life and STILL have children if they want?

I'm glad that men are wising up to these tactics now, and that they can see the bum deal on the table. Hopefully this current idiotic brand of feminism will taper off soon, and we will have more women who are able to take responsibility for their own lives again.

LewisCross · 2017-05-15T16:26:55+00:00

The reason women are having kids late in life is because those women want to fuck hot guys for as long as they can without getting knocked up. They don't want to get married and they don't want kids. They want to party, get drunk, get high, get stoned, and get laid.

It's only when they get to 30, 35 or so and they get baby rabies that women start thinking about "settling down".

Women having kids late in life is a result of WOMEN's conduct, not men. Women drive the SMP and the RMP. And women have royally fucked it up.

Archwinger · 2017-05-15T17:16:44+00:00

When women say, "The reason I don't behave better and conform to conventional societal norms such as marriage and children at a certain age is because the men suck too much", they're telling the truth. They're just not telling you the full story.

If men were men, then most women would be settling down with a good man and starting a family. But most men aren't men, so most women aren't comfortable trusting their lives and the lives of their children to these non-men.

The few men who are actually men have so many women chasing after them that they can just fuck around and not marry anybody.

Couple this with a society where abortion is legal, birth control is abundant, sluts of both sexes are encouraged as progressive and modern and liberated rather than frowned upon, and you end up with a scenario where women fuck the manly men until they start to feel the biological urge to procreate, look around, and realize that all of the men suck. The loser men suck for being non-men, while the winner men suck for not picking one woman and committing to her and instead wasting the 20s countless women in fun sexual flings.

Women are indirectly right. The reason they're not acting like conventional women is because the men suck. Women are as shitty as men let them be, and most men aren't men.

gasparddelanuit · 2017-05-15T17:58:06+00:00

Kay S. Hymowitz wrote about this back in 2008. It was even discussed on Tom Leykis. I say so what? Men should be able to do what they want as much as women. It's not men's job to satisfy the gynocentric whims of women.

Child-Man in the Promised Land - Kay S. Hymowitz

Tom Leykis - Women Can't Find Men

locriology · 2017-05-16T17:53:17+00:00

It's adorable how they think labeling men as "childish" will shame them into having babies with bitchy, undesirable women. These articles show up all the time - where they talk about the "beautiful", single, mid-30s career woman who's "amazing in every way", but can't find a husband, and how it's men's fault. What a joke.

Call me childish all you want, I'm fucking loving the single life in my late 20's with shittons of spare income and free time.

wtknight · 2017-05-15T17:31:38+00:00

If women withheld sex from men until men grew up, then this wouldn't be a problem. If men are getting sex already without having to grow up, then what is the incentive for them to grow up and take responsibility, especially when so many marriages end in divorce and in situations that tend to be disadvantageous for men?

Scurvemuch · 2017-05-15T17:39:26+00:00

it put forth an interesting phrase I hadn't heard before.

That is because you haven't read the red pill side bar material. or the red pill sub.

despisedlove2 · 2017-05-15T20:20:53+00:00

BS.

Another example of women wanting to find a cover story for their own obsession with the cock carousel.

gopher_glitz · 2017-05-16T00:40:32+00:00

Women don't reject men because they are 'childish' they reject men because they are a combination of too short, fat, balding, 'poor' or generally 'ugly'.

Most rejection happens at first sight, before they'd even be able to tell you they are 'childish'.

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darkmoon09 · 2017-05-15T20:00:32+00:00

Women want an equal partner, but there are increasingly fewer candidates to choose from.

lol that's rich. Don't tell me that aren't at least some men of their socioeconomic equals? but they (women) just don't want to fuck those beta dweebs.

This shift has caused a seesaw effect. “When women are in oversupply, men have the advantage and delay marriage and parenthood,” Jon Birger, author of “Date-onomics: How Dating Became a Lopsided Numbers Game,” told The Post. And when men are scarce, women put an even stronger focus on their careers so they can take care of themselves with a financial safety net. Meanwhile, men take a step back in their career ambition, no longer having to impress an oversupply of women with their financial prowess.

an oversupply of women? what's this lady on? the way guys look at it an "oversupply" of available women. Most women aren't available to most guys. Most guys get rejected more often than not regardless of the status of the girl doing the rejecting. That sure as hell doesn't make it an "oversupply".

Women can’t wait for today’s perpetual male adolescence to change course.

Everything is men's fault, of course.

And they can’t bank on finding an equal mate while they’re of childbearing age — if ever. If they want a family, single women have to come up with a Plan B, where a young man with the same socioeconomic status isn’t necessarily part of the picture.

and here we go

For some young college educated women, an older partner may work. Middle-aged men place a higher value on marriage and parenthood than their younger counterparts do, according to Pew.

Pretty sure those aren't going to want to fuck those guys, but they know if they have because he's got socioeconomic status: he's a beta buck old fart who wouldn't even be getting his monthly starfish sex if not for his wallet. In other words ladies, get yourself a sugar daddy. The author would have been a bit more truthful and less deceiving had she simply said that instead.

Birger also advises college-educated women to consider a different cohort of men altogether. “If there are too many women in the white-collar dating world,” Birger contends, “that means there are too many men in the blue-collar one. I think it’s inevitable that we’ll see more and more of what I call ‘mixed-collar’ marriages in the future.”

Coincidentally a lot of alpha chad types that women get wet for also tend to do blue-collar work. The guy welding shit or hauling away heavy logs tend to be more masculine than the dork writing code in his cubicle.

voteGOPk · 2017-05-15T21:52:09+00:00

man childs exist because women let them exist.

the amount of man childs with gf/wives and kids astounds me. even in that linked article... THEN WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU in a relationship with said man child to begin with.

reminds of scenario where female friend ask me once: "Why do i mostly see short guys at the gym?"

to which I answered: because women make it so tall men don't have to go to the gym.

she was slightly confused then understood.

tallwheel · 2017-05-16T07:00:31+00:00

Those men are acting in their best interest. Society allows them to have a job and enjoy their "childish" hobbies, and they can still get a GF if they're decent looking; so why would they "grow up" when they know it's just going to make life less enjoyable for them?

Why would any man want a marriage and children that could just be taken away at any time and which would just mean more work and responsibility for him, when he could just continue being a dude with a GF who also loves to drink and play video games. Of course he will continue to do what is best for himself and his interests.

And when guys interests don't serve women and children and society, shaming articles like this one are the predictable response.

Wallstreet3 · 2017-05-16T07:21:02+00:00

Men don't wanna do it because it ain't worth it. Simple as that. You are not worth the long, hard fight that lies before him.

Think about how hard the fight he will have just to get you, let alone keep you into old age, then add on making the money you want him to make to afford the lifestyle you want, to raise the kids, afford vacations while putting money away for retirement. It is one hell of a fight, a fuckton of investment, gallons of sweat and a whole lot of stress.

badnews4u · 2017-05-16T13:43:30+00:00

childish women that dont plan their futures is a bit too woke for nypost i guess

GridReXX · 2017-05-15T20:22:22+00:00

"Childish" is a nebulous term.

But I think a man or woman who's 33 with no aspirations or savings or investments . Doesn't cook actual meals. Doesn't drink water. Relies on GoPuff and UberEATS. Plays video games all day and whose home resembles a messy frat house... I wouldn't argue if someone called them "childish."

If for example a guy has his life together and is adulting aptly I wouldn't call him childish if he played video games as a stress reliever.

CrazyTom54 · 2017-05-15T20:31:56+00:00

School systems are dumbing down males and educating females. It's been true since at least the early 90s.

comfysofachair · 2017-05-15T21:51:45+00:00

Two thoughts....

First- It wouldn't be because women are trying to "have it all" (i.e. have a career, have a social life where they can get attention from men without recourse, AND then have children), would it?

Second- According to feminists a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle. A woman does not NEED to get married to have children. Over 40 percent of all children born in the USA are born out of wedlock. All a woman needs is a sperm donor. Or a turkey baster and the "all you can inject" plan at the local sperm bank.

I have no sympathy for women whom are so foolish.

SkinnySweaty · 2017-05-16T21:06:31+00:00

The Maturity Gap between men and women is a real thing, and it's why women often go for older men.

If you want to talk about "bio-troofs", when women feels their body telling them to have kids they are going to prioritize a guy who has his shit together as opposed to the boy-man dudebros who play video games all day and never miss Sportcenter.

Biology, yo.

AdamAJ · 2017-05-15T17:12:10+00:00

This is silly, they are having children later because the tasks of building skills and, yes, having fun, take years off their lives.

There is no need to impose gender roles upon anyone for that.

figthief · 2017-05-15T23:30:15+00:00

Another article about high income women over the age of 30, in Manhattan, posed to represent the other 99% of us.

CoffersWorthington · 2017-05-15T17:55:16+00:00

See the Jungian take:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puer_aeternus

ThrowawayCactus6012 · 2017-05-15T20:32:28+00:00

What I want to ask though is if you think this is a real issue or not. Does it deserve attention or is this only a small number of men?

Not sure how many this issue affects, although I noticed that it seems like just a local story for NYC. It may be just in that area, not necessarily a nationwide problem.

But if it does deserve to be looked at then what can be done to fix it? Are women going to have to adjust their dating standards? Will men grow up?

Well, the phrase "grow up" is pretty general and can mean a lot of different things. I'm not sure why it's any man's fault that any of the women in this article aren't married. If they're not married, then the best explanation is that they don't want to be married, which is perfectly fine.

But I would question the premise of the article that these women actually want to be married and would be married if not for all these supposedly "childish men."

And what about the women in this article? They don't really say much about them or what they're like. Some women, no matter how hot they might be, may have personality types which might have some guys asking: "Do I really want to wake up with that person every morning?"

lbspredh · 2017-05-16T06:53:54+00:00

Putting aside the gamer shame there seems to be a common issue with the men in question, they don't feel like their careers are stable enough time to start a family

GroovyEFS · 2017-05-16T10:13:19+00:00

And then there’s Joanna, from the Upper West Side, who tells me that at age 32, she stepped off the partner track at her law firm, halving her salary to work in the firm’s marketing department, so she could focus on landing a husband. But at 39, Joanna is still single and childless — and unsatisfied in her career.

"My standards are too high and no man who meets them will go out with me so that's their fault."

Pathetic. It's pathetic when men use this logic and it's pathetic when women do it too.

You know what's childish? Blaming other people for your high standards. It's not men's fault you're having trouble finding someone you think is worthy of marrying. Either lower your standards or do what the guys are doing and enjoy life on your own terms.

P.S. the MGTOWs must be fucking loving this haha.

Althehistoryguy · 2017-05-16T11:37:15+00:00

To be honest, I think the entire millennial generation, both men and women is the most dysfunctional generation ever.

stonepimpletilists · 2017-05-16T13:03:14+00:00

Lol.

Bros before homes.

Kind of funny really. Men are hardwired to love women. How low must ones value be, to the point where you circumvent that? Granted, many are fat fucks, but that top 20% that most women GAF about? They're good fam.

If you ladies would like to fix it, it's super easy. Stop giving up the cookie so fast. We will complain, but briffaults law, we eventually get in line. Of course, if you've already been giving that cookie, then it's too late for you. Grab one of your babydaddy kids and instill this into her, so she can 'fix' this.

Of course, by 'fix', I assume you mean 'get men to do what I want' if you want men to be happy, keep on as you're keeping on, becuase our happiness doesn't involve you.

DrDenisovich · 2017-05-16T16:07:32+00:00

I believe this is picking a very particular demographic of women, and thus not necessarily a problem for everyone. I don't know about other areas, but this happens a lot in academics and medicine. There are some very educated and successful women that are around 30 years old and they have a lot of difficulty pairing off. I think it's a combination of their standards becoming higher (less suitable partners), their age (harder time to find single people to mingle with), and that it's socially acceptable for the male equivalents to date younger women, which they often do.

fidsysoda · 2017-05-16T20:34:17+00:00

Sexual dissatisfaction is a real issue. Among both women and men. But as to the reasoning-- I find this article pretty shallow.

First of all, there's a way-we-never-were kind of thinking to it. Ward Cleaver is not representative of fathers from his era, the same way that Rachel's apartment on Friends is not representative of NY real estate in her income bracket. But it's easy to forget that.

I think that there's a very natural inclination among humans to think we're hotter shit than we actually are. When it comes to sex, a lot of us have a Red Sonja attitude: To sleep with me you must first defeat me! The thing is, that doesn't work when both parties feel the same way.

For a long time, gender roles have provided a way around this. Men could refuse to sleep with anyone that wasn't better looking than them, while women could refuse to sleep with anyone without better economic prospects, and the whole thing still worked. But as gender roles change, dissolve, and as we see growing equality of the sexes, this stops working. A lot of what these woman are saying is that they want that traditional relationship of not settling for a man without better economic prospects than they themselves have. But thanks to their career and life choices, that's a vanishingly small group. (And yeah, it goes the other way, where I think you have some men who have put enough effort into their appearance that they actually have fewer prospects, because they're still limiting themselves to women that look better than them.) It's not involuntary celibacy, not quite, but it's similar-- it's refusing to entertain any offers you consider beneath you, and since you have an elevated impression of yourself, and everyone you meet likewise has an elevated impression of themselves, it's never going to happen.

The other thing is that this whole idea of some kind of bright line between adult and child is, well, childish. Every 16, 20, 30 year old sniffs at childish behavior-- and at 80, realizes how childish they always were. Children have always been the ones having sex and having children, maybe with but probably without financial security. Children are better at having sex. They're better at being open to new experiences and new people. They're better at ignoring "deal-breakers" like political affiliation. And the trappings of childhood are not the same thing as childishness. A century ago, boys were hunting and exploring-- and when they grew up, when they took efforts to continue the things that had, did give them enjoyment, their wives denigrated this behavior as childish. Enjoying video games isn't childish, not any more than enjoying world travel is childish. Both are merely indulgences.

TheOneTrueMagnet · 2017-05-16T02:57:21+00:00

It's bullshit, but it is becoming less so. When I graduated highschool, the magical age most women had in mind was 27. They would start their careers or finish their PhD's. Then they could start seriously thinking about getting married just in time to pop out the perfect 3 children before 35.

I am not saying all were like this, but it was incredibly common. The second most popular theory was get married senior year of college or right after. They were the smarter ones.

Now, it seems that the women who want it all are backing this age down to 25. A lot of them are noticing that my generations women had a ton of issues, and starting a bit earlier would be better.

As for childish men? They aren't much more childish than before. It's the have it all women who have no interest in early marriage and children.

silverrosemary · 2017-05-16T09:17:15+00:00

I think that many women are less eager to have kids than they once were because there's an extra expectation of providence for those kids. Now that women have the choice, they're choosing to have fewer kids that are being cared for much more effectively.

This is a pretty effective survival mechanism for modern women. Children with good parents are more likely to survive, thrive, and reproduce themselves. Plus, please remember that overpopulation is a thing; it's a complicated issue, but women having fewer, healthier babies probably allows them to spread their resources a little more generously than they would.

Men probably aren't any less mature than they were a hundred years ago. Women just have a choice now.

Title	The childish man.
Author	reepbot
Upvotes	13
Comments	182
Date	May 15, 2017 4:13 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/6bbbfj/the_childish_man/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/the-childish-man.268097 https://theredarchive.com/post/268097

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