Discussion: why is being nice to your man considered old fashioned?

exit_sandman · 2015-07-29T11:52:22+00:00

Not gonna say too much about this.

It makes me really sad to see the reactions of people to this article.

There is not one thing on the list I wouldn't do for a girlfriend. I have done almost all of the listed stuff.

You shouldn't "be fake"?

What happened to: "Relationships require work", "You have to compromise in relationships", "the relationship is not only about you"?

Damn, this really makes me sad. Fuck modern "relationships".

ianiemasns · 2015-07-29T12:01:42+00:00

Well, when you've done every possible mental backflip and reframing of issues to always come to the conclusion that men are evil oppressors and women are helplessly oppressed, the suggestion that a member of the oppressed class should be kind, respectful, or generous toward a member of the oppressor class is horribly offensive.

jayden695 · 2015-07-29T11:36:46+00:00

Very interesting comments by women ITT. I'll remember it along with the Kaley Cuoco incident from earlier this year the next time women say the don't shame other women for lifestyle choices they make

exit_sandman · 2015-07-29T09:41:17+00:00

The reactions of BP women ITT (especially the feminist-leaning ones) remind me why I wrote this post.

I am saving this thread alone for the occasion whenever someone ~~lies~~ tells me that "feminism isn't critical of female live choices, regardless of whether she's a housewive and homemaker or has a career".

ExpendableOne · 2015-07-29T17:24:07+00:00

For the longest time in human history, we essentially had a dynamic between men and women that pretty much boiled down to: men compete/do and women support them. That is a system that feminism has completely twisted, and painted as completely oppressing towards women without any consideration to how men were affected by it or what social advantages/advancements it might have created, to promote their own agendas. This, along with some already pre-existing aspect of male disposability and a lack of accountability for women, is basically the perfect breading ground for open hate and resentment against from women.

But, when you look at this "old fashion" system, men didn't really have any more choice in their roles before either and, for the most part, a lot of progress was made possible through that system as well. You hear people like Bill Gates and Obama say things like "you'll never get ahead if you only employ 50% of your workforce" but, that's also kind of a false statement. America got ahead in the past by employing that system, China got ahead by employing that system, other civilizations of the past got ahead using this system. If you have 100% of the population as your workforce and that leads to 80% of that workforce being unhappy, and working at 50% capacity or less, that is not really a perfect answer either. A system that has 50% of the population working but being happy, and working at 80% capacity or more, while the other 50% of the population basically providing the proper care, support and nurturing environment for the men to strive and thrive(doing things that also makes them happy) is as valid of an answer as any. I'm not a big support of the "old fashion" system personally but, conceptually speaking, 100% people working at 50% creates a nation of drones, while 50% people working at 100% creates a nation of innovation and progress.

In any case, feminism is inherently misandric and irrational, it is also revising history to suit that purpose. Women who hate men don't want to see men happy and they don't want to see women being happy making men happy. When they see women show that kind of compassion and devotion to men, it doesn't just go against their emotional stances against men but it also goes against their narrative of "men are evil oppressors of women". The golden rule at that point doesn't matter because the way they want to be treated and the way they want to treat men is at odds.

I think there's also a lot of negative projection from women towards other women who are supplicating towards men because, ironically, those same feminists also tend to be incredibly dreadful towards men who are supplicating towards women as well(you see this all over anti-nice guy threads on reddit all the time). Men who are too nice to women and too accommodating get treated like dirt, called all kind of names and treated like eunuchs or predators. They hate those kind of men because it puts more burdens on women to take the initiative and take on more responsibility/accountability(essentially roles, or burdens, that men had to take in the past and were vilified for by feminists), which again kind of goes against their narrative and emotional stances. The whole thing is entirely hypocritical though, because if they ever were truly egalitarian in nature, they would probably have been more accepting of both these extremes.

Cyralea · 2015-07-29T15:01:40+00:00

Here's the Coles notes for being a high SMV woman:

-Be physically attractive (~80%)
-Be pleasant (~15%)

The type of women who are low-SMV (re: feminists) naturally balk at this advice as they lack both, and instead opt to change others preferences via social shaming. Desiring a thin, fit woman now becomes "Enforcing unfair beauty standards". Desiring a pleasant, submissive woman becomes "Pushing for a patriarchal model that oppresses women to assuage fragile male egos"

Like all feminist ideology, none of it is predicated in reality, but in female self-interest.

Xemnas81 · 2015-07-29T15:34:54+00:00

So I finally bit the bullet and read a bit of Rollo's Rational Male Year One yesterday. Relevant

http://therationalmale.com/2011/11/14/appreciation/

The Feminine Imperative, propagated by the 3rd wave in its modern form but an extension of the ancient Briffault's Law, states that in a world conditioned to view the natural socio-sexual hierarchy (at least for hetero-normatives) as an oppressive 'patriarchy', all men will always be default oppressors and all women will always be default victims until proven otherwise, and that this is decided by feminism.

The result of this is that the absence of benevolent sexism bestowed by men (especially betas and omega) to women, is interpreted as directly victimising and oppression of women. In such an environment, women of the West are conditioned to feel entitled to preferential treatment, and equality is treated as subordinate treatment. If women feel entitled to a form of affection which is actually a privilege (and especially young, attractive, white middle class women in the UK and USA) then they have no behavioural or social incentive to reciprocate said affections or even respect back to men.

Also relevant

http://therationalmale.com/category/love/

http://therationalmale.com/2011/12/27/women-in-love/

And on why White Knighting is a failed strategy

http://therationalmale.com/2011/08/25/the-desire-dynamic/

The article from OP is an example of power talk; it pretends to be about women giving appreciation to men, but it's somewhat about women controlling men through conditional validation which could be withdrew on a whim. This is how men get whipped.

winndixie · 2015-07-29T21:21:15+00:00

Cause why be nice when you can be a shithead and still get what you want from a husband who is legally and socially bounded to give you what you want if not you get free money?

historyhill · 2015-07-29T16:14:34+00:00

I actually like quite a few of these suggestions! I think they probably work better as ways to express your love to someone you're already committed to, rather than ways to make a man fall in love with you though.

Torquelewith12 · 2015-07-29T04:28:31+00:00

Gynocentrism. Everything today has to be designed explicitly for the benefit and comfort of women. If not, it's discarded

[deleted] · 2015-07-29T05:15:32+00:00

Do you really have to ask that?

Being nice = sign of submission = not for modern strong independent woman who is an equal in the relationship

am_thro_way · 2015-07-29T12:08:23+00:00

Meh, I don't really see much objectionable in that article. Some of the things are not really applicable to all men though. My boyfriend doesn't watch TV and isn't really into sports, for example. Only thing that struck me as weird is

Letting him solve your work problem. Many men don't do gossip, but they do like to fix things.

I mean, what kind of workplace is going to be ok with bringing your SO in to do your job for you? Unless you mean, just taking his advice on work related stuff, but depending on what you do, he might just not have the necessary knowledge to give any relevant advice at all.

LeaneGenova · 2015-07-30T02:27:54+00:00

Personally, I think the list is mostly cute. It's about the little ways to make a guy happy and know you're thinking about him. I'm surprised something like "pick up a treat/special beer for him" isn't on the list. I've had great success at that, personally.

I do think the list is more likely to make an already existing relationship stronger rather than making a guy fall in love. But who knows? Maybe this is the type of behavior that a guy would really find attractive in the beginning.

If you look at AskMen, it's pretty common to see posts asking "What's the male analogue of buying flowers?" so I have no idea how a list of silly little simple things is causing a ruckus.

Is being nice to a man and accommodating his interests really that old fashioned and repulsive that it disgusts women that much? What does that say about modern women's attitudes if they refuse to do anything nice like this to make their male partners happy? And if women don't have to make men happy, then should men also not have to make women happy either?

I think people are generally selfish. It's easy to accept someone spoiling you, but harder to be kind to others, especially at the expense of yourself. Part of demonstrating that you value someone is by elevating their wants above yours - even for a short period of time.

Personally, I'll never forget the time my SO detoured 20 minutes out of the way to go get me my favorite food while I was sick as a dog in the middle of a thunderstorm. If I didn't return the favor ever, it would be a shitty relationship.

If women aren't making an effort, I don't think guys should have to carry the burden. I don't advocate anyone being utterly selfish and rude. That being said, there's no point in staying in a relationship where you aren't appreciated.

mrcs84usn · 2015-07-29T16:54:03+00:00

This reminds me of a girl I was dating that was a native to Nicaragua and the first time she brought me over to her place to meet her (rather large) family. I tried to help out with the cooking, and I was almost literally kicked out of the kitchen while the women cooked, so I was out in the back yard with the other men playing with the kids. After we were finished eating and just hanging out, every time my beer was empty, she would get up and get me another one without asking.

You can call it old fashioned. You can call it a cultural thing. But stuff like that is what men like. And the -good- men will reciprocate in some fashion. I know it's TWOTHOUSANDFIFTEEN OMG, but doing things for your partner is how you maintain a relationship. It seems like relationships these days (especially some of these vindictive women) operate on the margin. Lets see how -little- I can do and still be in this relationship.

Wait_whatcolorwastha · 2015-07-30T02:20:11+00:00

This... Makes me sad, simply trying to be nice and thoughtful isn't that bad ladies... Yeah, sometimes it's hard when you're having a rough time of things (God knows I've been bitchy for the past 2 weeks, fuck 14 hour days 7 days a week, I just want a single second to myself...) but there's nothing wrong with doing random nice things for your SO.

despisedlove2 · 2015-07-30T03:07:48+00:00

It is for this reason, most women aren't wife material.

They expect to be made happy by their man, but consider it beneath their dignity to reciprocate.

It is another sign that feminism isn't and likely never was about equality.

I am not a PUA, but for women of this kind of thinking, I wish nothing better than unstable plate like relationships.

dragoness_leclerq · 2015-07-29T05:59:30+00:00

Being kind and considerate of your partner is great but this list- mostly the writing/delivery- is cringe worthy.

Further, saying that these behaviors will result in "locking a man down" is weird and frankly inaccurate.

RareBlur · 2015-07-29T07:10:01+00:00

It's not "being nice" it's "being fake"

It's faking niceness in order to "make him love you" that's ridiculous and rather creepy. It's like how to be a "nice guy" for women.

Here I'll paraphrase and translate what's wrong with advice:

1) Hand him a beer as he gets out of the shower

what does the shower have to do with drinking beer? "Hey darlin', thought you needed to be drunk before you head out to work, have some beer" 0_o

2) bring him cookies and milk or a grilled cheese after sex

Better make sure to cut off the crusts. WTF? Is he a baby?

3) spam him with shit he probably already read and then feel good about it for a job well done.

Yep. This all for him.

4) brag about him to random people on the street corner.

Oh boy telling all my friends how great my life is will surly make me er, him feel better.

5) answer the door naked

Maybe the mailman has a "package" for you. WTF?

6) do the things he wants in the bedroom.

...just bite the pillow.

7) Let him solve your petty work problem

ho ho woman.. a problem at "work" ...is the washer acting up?

8) Read about sports on the internet and randomly bring them up to make it look like you are interested when really you don't care.

Wayne Gretzky is the best at the football.

9) Feed him like he's 7 and cut up hot dogs in his mac and cheese

Maybe he'll call you "memaw"

10) make sure his friends like you.

Don't want them talking smack about you when you are not around or worse validating his complaints.

11) sit around while he watches his TV shows

Have no hobbies of your own that takes away from getting beer and grilled cheese.

12) Give him a massage, maybe with a "happy ending"

oh you. Everyone knows that's not optional.

13) Tease him like he's a baby

Well, you already treat him like a man-child might as well make it permanent.

So, for the record being in love makes you WANT to do nice things and see your partner light up with a smile. But this advice is not about seeing the person you love smile it's advice to "make him fall for you" which is really just doing things so you get something in return.

True "niceness" doesn't ask for a reciprocated gesture. The smile on your SO's face is enough of a reward. But denying yourself and your own likes and dislikes shouldn't be a part of that, it just turns you into a dependant. Worse, you've made them a dependant buy not being able to cut up their own hot dogs.

wombatinaburrow · 2015-07-29T05:03:11+00:00

You are conflating being nice to your partner with being subservient to him.

wtknight · 2015-07-29T05:26:43+00:00

This list probably should have been presented gender neutrally as things that one partner could be doing for another, although some of the more gender stereotyped suggestions would need to be altered.

exit_sandman · 2015-07-29T04:45:19+00:00

It's revolting when the advice is that a woman should dump her life in order to absorb herself completely in her man's, supporting him and making him happy - when the same is not suggested of a man.

MissPearl · 2015-07-29T10:56:52+00:00

Its not that being nice is old fashioned, it's that the glurgey cult of the perfect domestic wife is generally seen as the post war mid century blech we use as narrative shorthand for a set of cultural roles we decided was unsustainable.

Personally a lot of these are Baby's First Relationship tips, and the retro vibe is coming from the banality more so than the advice to be nice to your man, particularly with the reductionary and not particularly well explained nature of the instructions- there's a lot of "do this!" with not much "why".

[deleted] · 2015-07-29T15:17:14+00:00

I think the statement that being nice to your man is bad, is disinformation i.e. cattiness to reduce competition just like the bad advice given to men (be yourself etc).

LUClEN · 2015-07-29T11:13:28+00:00

Niceness is often an expression of subservience. The former in itself is not wrong but many take issue with the latter. It makes sense when you consider the feminist slant of BP

In closing: be nice to be nice, not to be ruled over or for fear of repercussion

[deleted] · 2015-07-29T08:54:28+00:00

And again people are linking the Daily Mail as a source for things. At least archive that shit first if you insist on using that shithole as a "source." Ideally though can you link to an alternate article with the same sentiments as this one? You did say there were multiple MSM reactions just like this after all.

[deleted] · 2015-07-29T10:55:12+00:00

Most of the advice are weird. It's Glamour so I guess they were going for "quirky". If my boyfriend watched sports and I started spitting out stats to him, he is gonna think I'm being fake. Sports in general is a male space. He doesn't need me there.

I would feel like a dumb-ass doing half of these things. Mostly because it won't work. I think women are more offended by that and confusing it with being subservient.

The only advice I see here that works are 4, 6, 8, 10 and 12.

RobotPartsCorp · 2015-07-29T18:45:34+00:00

These tips are overall eye-roll-inducing. Some of them are silly, some of them are nice things, some of them sometimes don't even apply to my relationship but its a generalization.

The problem lies in the implication of this list. That women are the caretakers of the relationship and the caretakers of their manbabies. If the sole responsibility of the relationship was on my shoulders based on my vagina-having-status, we would be in shambles. All these little tips are great, they don't have to be gendered! It makes it sound like women must do this. I hate doing things I feel obligated to do, I avoid them, I do them if I absolutely have to, begrudgingly. I don't want to ever begrudge doing nice things for my boyfriend. I DO a lot of these tips actually, because he is awesome and he inspires me. I genuinely like him (obviously I love him...but to like your significant other is something else entirely). He not only loves me but he genuinely likes me too, we like hanging out together, we like going out together...

For the past 4 nights we have gone out to concerts (its a promotion thing but also he is heavily involved in the music scene) and on night 5 I said "ok lets stay home, I realize we have not had a a chance to actually tell each other about our days!" I really missed that! Things are so easy for each other that we didn't even notice that an automatic and important part of our relationship had been absent for a few days until we could take a breath and get back to our normal routine. It is funny, we were both following each other around the house after work, taking turns doing a small chore here and there so we could keep the conversation going. I wanted to show him the projects I was working on and he wanted to talk about an issue he was having at work with a designer (which I am, so I am his designer-to-account exec translator).

Is being nice to a man and accommodating his interests really that old fashioned and repulsive that it disgusts women that much?

The nice things are not what is disgusting if I were to take a guess. The old fashioned part is that it is gendered and a gender-based obligation. Relationships have evolved, we can be in mutually-enriching, mutually-satisfying relationships now.

What does that say about modern women's attitudes if they refuse to do anything nice like this to make their male partners happy?

Except that is not what is happening here. If it was, I would agree with you, but the issue is not that it was suggested we do nice things for our partner.

And if women don't have to make men happy, then should men also not have to make women happy either?

I don't want to be in a relationship where I did not want to make my partner happy, where I did not get joy from doing really nice, lovely, cute things that made him happy. I would not want to be in a relationship where a guy felt entitled to be made happy. I would not want to be with a man who did not truly want to make me happy as well, or that making me happy was an obligation or a chore. Being nice to our partners should be a given, it should come naturally, it shouldn't feel like an obligation.

Yonderlander · 2015-07-29T20:29:23+00:00

It isn't. Being nice to your partner is a vital cornerstone of a healthy, modern relationship.

That glamour article is nuts.

strongalfalfa · 2015-07-29T18:24:38+00:00

Ok I read that, and I can totally understand the outrage. That isn't advice on being nice to your man. That is advice about how to drop what your doing and act like a subservient maid for him. It's dehumanizing and even misogynistic towards women.

They are not just nice things to do for your man. It is old fashioned advice that involves putting a woman down and making her feel unimportant.

haircombsnightmare · 2015-07-29T16:17:47+00:00

There's a difference with saying "what you can do" and "what you have to do". Any loving action that comes from nothing else than just wanting to, I don't see anything wrong with. What I see wrong is telling a woman (or well, man) she can't find a partner if she doesn't treat him like a newborn with a fragile ego.

Also, it's stupid to think just because you follow a list, someone will fall in love with you immediately. If it were so easy we wouldn't have so many hearts broken.

Amethhyst · 2015-07-29T19:08:58+00:00

The second part of number 1 and number 7 are a bit dumb. Other than that, the advice seems fine, if a little reductive of what will 'make him happy'.

In other news, the Red Pill circle jerk going on in here is something else.

Title	Discussion: why is being nice to your man considered old fashioned?
Author	obstinatebeagle
Upvotes	29
Comments	353
Date	July 29, 2015 3:53 AM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/3ezjzz/discussion_why_is_being_nice_to_your_man/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/discussion-why-is-being-nice-to-your-man.280671 https://theredarchive.com/post/280671

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